Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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Indranil
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 01 Nov 2019 01:36

No. Never displayed in public other than a picture or two.

Karan M
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 01 Nov 2019 02:02

No.. those were merely mockups displayed by a pvt firm set up by an IAF veteran which IIRC never really went into tests. These are separate actual test programs.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 01 Nov 2019 02:26

SAAW (120kg) -> 100km
Image

Winged Glide Bomb (500/1000kg) -> 70-100km
[Gaurav/Garuthama]
Image

Glide Bomb (500/1000kg) -> 30km
[Gautam/Garuda]
Image

PGHSLD (500kg) -> 30km
Image

Indranil
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 01 Nov 2019 02:46

Never saw the picture Garuthma before. Where did you find it. My hattip to you in keeping track of these things. Very meticulous.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 01 Nov 2019 02:48

^^^
Credit goes to Karan M. He found it on DRDO website: https://www.drdo.gov.in/glide-bomb

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kartik » 01 Nov 2019 04:06

Excellent find. Wish we could get that picture of it being launched from Su-30MKI. Really looking forward to seeing Gautam and Gaurav being inducted en-masse. Spice 2000 being bought in batches of 100 odd bombs is too less for a full scale conflict.

By the way what is the guidance for the LRGB? INS+GPS?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby SSridhar » 01 Nov 2019 06:56

From my notes,

Garuda store has been successfully released from the Su-30 MKI aircraft during 2013. Transfer alignment and safe separation have been proven as part of development trials of Garuda. Wing kit realization and wind tunnel tests have been completed as a part of development trials of winged version Garuthma. Garuthma drop trials were conducted successfully on December 19, 2014 in Bay of Bengal off the Odisha coast and were successfully repeated in 2015 also. Both Garuthma & Garuda were tested for their full ranges in the Thar desert, dropped from a Su-30MKI, in August 2016 also. A DRDO official termed the tests as a ‘major success’. On May 24, 2019, Garuda was tested at the Pokhran firing range for a distance of 30 Kms.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 01 Nov 2019 19:29

Kartik wrote:Excellent find. Wish we could get that picture of it being launched from Su-30MKI. Really looking forward to seeing Gautam and Gaurav being inducted en-masse. Spice 2000 being bought in batches of 100 odd bombs is too less for a full scale conflict.

By the way what is the guidance for the LRGB? INS+GPS?

Image

According to this article it’s an inertial guided bomb.

Procurement plan is for 1000/year of two LRGB types: 125kg and 500kg.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7342&p=2227436&hilit=1000+glide+Iaf#p2227436
...
SHQ (Air Force)
Project No.3
1. Name of Potential Project
Long Range Glide Bombs

2.Brief about the project
MoD, Gol intends to procure Long Range Glide Bombs (LRGBs) to be delivered from different aircraft platforms. The LRGBs are proposed to be developed and manufactured under the ̳Make‘ category of the DPP. As a preliminary step, two classes of LRGBs_viz 125 Kg and 500 Kg, compatible with Su-30 MKI aircraft are intended to be indigenously developed and produced.

3. Broad specifications / PSQRs which can be shared with the Industry
(a) Mai Range should be around 100 km when released from 42000 ft.
(b) Types of warhead - Blast fragmentation and Penetration.
(c) High accuracy.
(d) High shelf life
(e) Operation, Transportation and storage in Indian conditions.

4. Tentative quantity to be procured after successful prototype development
Appr a thousand per year.


5. Tentative timeline for induction
As soon as trials are successfully completed.
...

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Gyan » 01 Nov 2019 22:32

I thought we could have easily integrated IR sensor with data link ported from Helina with LRGB

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kartik » 01 Nov 2019 23:10

srai wrote:
Kartik wrote:Excellent find. Wish we could get that picture of it being launched from Su-30MKI. Really looking forward to seeing Gautam and Gaurav being inducted en-masse. Spice 2000 being bought in batches of 100 odd bombs is too less for a full scale conflict.

By the way what is the guidance for the LRGB? INS+GPS?

Image

According to this article it’s an inertial guided bomb.

Procurement plan is for 1000/year of two LRGB types: 125kg and 500kg.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7342&p=2227436&hilit=1000+glide+Iaf#p2227436
...
SHQ (Air Force)
Project No.3
1. Name of Potential Project
Long Range Glide Bombs

2.Brief about the project
MoD, Gol intends to procure Long Range Glide Bombs (LRGBs) to be delivered from different aircraft platforms. The LRGBs are proposed to be developed and manufactured under the ̳Make‘ category of the DPP. As a preliminary step, two classes of LRGBs_viz 125 Kg and 500 Kg, compatible with Su-30 MKI aircraft are intended to be indigenously developed and produced.

3. Broad specifications / PSQRs which can be shared with the Industry
(a) Mai Range should be around 100 km when released from 42000 ft.
(b) Types of warhead - Blast fragmentation and Penetration.
(c) High accuracy.
(d) High shelf life
(e) Operation, Transportation and storage in Indian conditions.

4. Tentative quantity to be procured after successful prototype development
Appr a thousand per year.


5. Tentative timeline for induction
As soon as trials are successfully completed.
...


Thank you Srai. that's a lot of questions answered there about the LRGB program. 1000 units per year is a good number to equip other multi-role types as well. So Gaurav and Gautam are basically INS guided PGMs.

Max range of 100 km for the winged bomb is from 42,000 ft and must also be at a specific speed of the platform dropping the weapon since it is an unpowered glide weapon. And it looks like it met the range and accuracy requirements and then must've been passed on for production.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Nov 2019 11:42

From Indian express

Four nuclear capable missiles lined up for test this month

Defence sources on Sunday told The Express that K-4 has been scheduled for November 8, followed by two versions of BrahMos - surface-to-air and air-to-air[WTF] - on November 11, Agni-II on November 16 and Prithvi on November 20


Surely Brahmos A2A is DDM.

While the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) will conduct a developmental trial of K-4 missile with advanced navigation systems from an underwater platform off Visakhapatnam coast


If wishes were courses underwater platform here is not a Pontoon but a submarine.

The focus will be on the performance of K-4 and Agni-II as both the missiles will be put to tests with new advanced systems,”


Looking forward to this Friday- God willing

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 04 Nov 2019 13:46

Looking forward to it!

That being said, the article is so shoddy. In addition to the Brahmos eff-up, check out the following language

Though four nuclear-capable missiles being lined up for tests in one month amidst heightened tension along border sends a clear signal of the country’s strategic preparedness, a defence official tried to cover it up stating that India sticks to its ‘no first use’ doctrine.


Makes is look as if we are doing something illegal & need to cover it up. Our defence reporting is such a disgrace. Rout's only USP is that he has inside access to DRDO & is usually the first one off the blocks, especially if a test fails

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Nov 2019 15:08

Why we are still testing Prudhvi? User tests or DDM reporting?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby fanne » 04 Nov 2019 16:24

Or calling xyz prithvi

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Nov 2019 16:26

I think our forces do have some Prithvi in stock including for Nuke delivery on Pakis, so they definately we need to keep validating our stock. Plus we dont nearly have enough missiles, so we still cant completly throw them away.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JayS » 04 Nov 2019 16:51

Any news on the NOTAM 3500km in the end of Oct..?? Or was it postponed?


Re, LRGB, I hope the bombs are very close to production, after 5-6yrs spent on AGB, and we are not looking at another 3-4 yrs for development.

I wonder why the change in names.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby uddu » 04 Nov 2019 17:38

BRAHMOS A2A is not DDM
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr

“The Brahmos NG is going to be the future system of our armed forces. We had earlier designed it for the Navy and this time we are developing an air to air version,” Sudhir Mishra, CEO & MD of Brahmos told ET.

The Brahmos NG – which will also be integrated with the Su 30 MKI fighter jets – is being designed to take down slow moving `force multipliers’ deep within enemy territory. This would make the missile an `AWACS killer’ that could take down an enemy early warning and control system even after being fired from the Indian side of the border. Similarly, it can target enemy refuelling aircraft and transporters.

There are reports of the same about Brahmos NG. Are they now testing the capability for the Regular Brahmos need to be figured out.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JayS » 04 Nov 2019 18:52

It was a logical extension, good to see them exploiting Brahmos fully.

from the article:

Sharing that the idea of integrating the Brahmos NG with the LCA came from Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra, the CEO said that the weapon will give a competitive edge to the LCA when it comes to export order.


:roll: :roll:

Also, the status of its integration on LCA seems to be at more advanced stage that I thought. Su-30MKI would be further ahead in this definitely. But I have stopped trusting timelines from Brahmos.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby John » 04 Nov 2019 19:08


Also, the status of its integration on LCA seems to be at more advanced stage that I thought. Su-30MKI would be further ahead in this definitely. But I have stopped trusting timelines from Brahmos



This is Brahmos NG or Brahmos-M not air launched Brahmos (only for Su-30) in case if there is any confusion for anyone.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby darshhan » 04 Nov 2019 21:36

Prem Kumar wrote:Looking forward to it!

That being said, the article is so shoddy. In addition to the Brahmos eff-up, check out the following language

Though four nuclear-capable missiles being lined up for tests in one month amidst heightened tension along border sends a clear signal of the country’s strategic preparedness, a defence official tried to cover it up stating that India sticks to its ‘no first use’ doctrine.


Makes is look as if we are doing something illegal & need to cover it up. Our defence reporting is such a disgrace. Rout's only USP is that he has inside access to DRDO & is usually the first one off the blocks, especially if a test fails


Don't be so hard on him. As a Bhartiya it is not imperative for him to write in impeccable english. In his mother tongue probably he wouldn't have committed the same mistake.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 04 Nov 2019 22:54

Information from Rout is typically very accurate.

But I think he has got the air to air part wrong. NG hasn't been flight tested from ground. There have not been any carriage trials either. I expect the order of testing of NG to be along Brahmos lines: surface to surface, air to surface and finally air to air. So, the said test is a few years off.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby John » 04 Nov 2019 23:30

Indranil wrote:Information from Rout is typically very accurate.

But I think he has got the air to air part wrong. NG hasn't been flight tested from ground. There have not been any carriage trials either. I expect the order of testing of NG to be along Brahmos lines: surface to surface, air to surface and finally air to air. So, the said test is a few years off.

It may be different with NG because unlike with Brahmos where ground tests where already done for Yakhont years ago there needs to be redesign of launcher and canister for Brahmos-NG. If this needs to fit into existing launcher it may require a plug and could complicate testing as well.

Where as air launch variant will not require that and can be tested from existing Su-30 platforms that carry Brahmos.

Added: Since only one NG can still be carried by single launcher in naval ships it is not going to offer a huge benefit for navy apart from lower cost and I am not sure Brahmos NG can reach 800 km which is planned for Brahmos. Honestly I don't see navy switching to it for surface vessels or army using it for land attack. Submarine and Air launch variant will be biggest benefit for NG variant.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Picklu » 04 Nov 2019 23:56

srai wrote:^^^
Credit goes to Karan M. He found it on DRDO website: https://www.drdo.gov.in/glide-bomb


And the link is down!!!

Check if it comes back with all these images; if not, better to delete them. Might be an inadvertent dekkho.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kartik » 05 Nov 2019 00:16

No its not. It's working.

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 05 Nov 2019 01:11

Its working.

Long range air to air has been a quest since IGMP.
Please read WOF.

Will give page number soon.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Philip » 05 Nov 2019 07:59

BMos- NG is a challenge because the entire missile will shrink in length and diameter to be able to be carried by a variety of aircraft, warships and fired from std. sub TTs.
The engine will have to be new apart from other components.Developing an LR AAM from the existing version is still a monumental achievement .

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 05 Nov 2019 09:41

Guys: I think its a typo in Rout's article. In fact, there are 2 typos. The article says there will be 2 tests of Brahmos: a surface-to-air & an air-to-air!!

I think what he meant was surface-to-surface and air-to-surface. Lets not read too much into it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Thakur_B » 05 Nov 2019 13:54

Brahmos NG a2a role was advertised a while back when the concept was first displayed. They are also developing multiple seekers, including IIR seeker for it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JayS » 05 Nov 2019 14:58

Is Brahmos Nuclear capable..?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Rsatchi » 05 Nov 2019 15:12

JayS wrote:Is Brahmos Nuclear capable..?



Specifications


Mass
3,000 kg (6,600 lb)
2,500 kg (5,500 lb) (air-launched)

Length
8.4 m (28 ft)

Diameter
0.6 m (2.0 ft)

Warhead
200 kg (440 lb) conventional semi-armour-piercing and nuclear [2][3]
300 kg (660 lb) (air-launched) Both manufactured indigenously by the Indian Ordnance Factories

As per Wikichacha!!! :D

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby dinesha » 05 Nov 2019 15:23

kurup wrote:
dinesha wrote:Another NOTAM issued for danger zone upto 3500Kms from Vishakhpatnam Coast on 8-9 November.


Where is the notam issued ?? Can't find anything on AAI website .

Image
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Vips » 05 Nov 2019 18:42

I hope the customary year end test of Agni IV and Agni V is also done in December. IIRC both have completed the user trials phase but Agni V is yet to be operationlaised and information is not clear about Agni IV too. Waiting for an announcement that fresh trials were done from production lot.

India needs to speed up work on Agni VI or whatever the next MIRV flowers carrying missile is going to be called. Trials for inducting K5 needs to be speeded up too.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Nov 2019 20:04

JayS wrote:Is Brahmos Nuclear capable..?

1. i have had this question in my mind for some time. I'm sure you'd remember initially in DDM it was reported as non nuke, with BRF posters also mentioning that it was our way to keep war below nuke threshold due to trajectory/profile or the role. Additionally the range was compliant to MTCR.
2. WIthin One year of India joining MTCR (quoting from memory, might be off few months), the news of range extension and nuke delivery started coming in. I did check the P800 oniks, on which B'mos is based has similar range and capability to carry thermo nukes

Code: Select all

[b]'Warhead: national version: 300 kg semi-armour piercing HE, thermonuclear; export version: 200 kg HE'[/b]
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-800_Oniks)
Also, the payload of B'mos is very similar to Oniks
the ship-launched and land-based missiles can carry a 200 kg warhead, whereas the aircraft-launched variant (BrahMos A) can carry a 300 kg warhead.
So I strongly suspect it can carry, unless there are shape/size or other constraints for our nukes. But the question I am not clear is how will the weapons by utilized, I am not sure, esp given the high velocity of the terminal state, short distance (i presume B'mos doesnt exit atmospher)

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby dinesh_kimar » 05 Nov 2019 21:55

^ wow !

Why would they need a supersonic missile with a thermonuclear warhead ?

Carrier killer role against the Nimitz Class ?

Regarding the NOTAM, an SLBM test showcasing 5500+ km range and 3x MIRV is long overdue for our minimum nuclear deterrence.

Shiv Saar long advocated a 20 kt deterrence as sufficient, citing bomb damage casualties, etc. The reason I disagree with his reasoning is that the P5 also had access to the data he cites, and was known before their last round of tests. But none of them restricted to 20 kt.

The Chinese went upto MT yield, and standardized at 300 kt.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 Nov 2019 22:52

^^dinesh ji,
1. honestly even I dont have any idea, why it should carry in the first place. i put this information just to see if wiser folks can shed some light on it
2. To me it seems quite odd to have a thermonuclear weapon on such a missile, even for a carrier role, it can do a 'mission kill'. IIRC, in one of the tests, b'mos tore the hull apart (for an old frigate, not for an carrier)
3. Just that it can carry doesnt mean that it would carry or be used, although it does offer the advantage of high accuracy over the ballistic missiles esp for anti-ship
4. The only possible weak case i can think of it is (valid from a russian PoV), attack on any opponent ship that carries nuke missiles or weapons will most likely considered as a nuke attack so might as well use nukes, esp when they are not short on the no. of nukes. I know it's a very weak argument.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Manish_Sharma » 05 Nov 2019 23:58

JayS wrote:Is Brahmos Nuclear capable..?

Nope it doesn't have Volume space for our tested Warheads.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ManuJ » 06 Nov 2019 06:42

these missile tests will probably also be used to test the radars of our brand new 'ocean surveillance ship'

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 06 Nov 2019 18:43

ManuJ wrote:these missile tests will probably also be used to test the radars of our brand new 'ocean surveillance ship'

would these radars also serve some purpose for our BMD? Although in this case they would have the advantage of knowing the trajectory and the launch timing.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 06 Nov 2019 20:53

JayS wrote:Is Brahmos Nuclear capable..?



Deep question. Requires through understanding of the maal.
So can't be answered by comparing just the weight and geometry.
It has to deal with electric wiring, circuit logic etc.
IOW only the designers know.
Not us.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramdas » 07 Nov 2019 11:37

Do'nt know whether they will be able to carry out the K-4 test given the cyclone that is building up in the bay of bengal...Hope the test does not get delayed too much.


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