Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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ernest
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by ernest »

The T-72 Akash Launcher was such a beauty. I remember watching videos in early 2010s where it would go hopping sand dunes, while swinging the missiles. Looked so alive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laR3yp2Rr1A

not the exact video that I remember, but still so cool
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by A Deshmukh »

Prem Kumar
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

AlphaDefense had an article saying the same thing earlier this month

https://alphadefense.in/drdo-vshorad-ma ... exclusive/

They say that the Igla-S deal was scrapped in favor of the indigenous MANPAD from DRDO. But knowing the IA, I will believe it when I see it getting inducted.

Some interesting snippets. The IDRW article claims that there will be a Datalink to network distributed MANPAD operators for target acquisition & minimizing friendly fire. If true, this is a really neat capability. A UAV could inform a network of MANPAD operators about a hostile that will enter their kill-zone much before they actually hear/see it - sensor/shooter separation.

IDRW claims a 5 Km range, while AlphaDefense claims 7 Km.

The specs: multi-spectral optical + Infrared + UV seeker, IFF, datalink, range, altitude, weight, ability to target cruise missiles & UAVs - all point to this being in the same class as the latest Igla (9K333 Verba) & Stinger-92E versions

The various programs feed off each other: there would be common elements in the optical/IIR seeker tech, LOBL of MANPAD, MANPATGM, Helina and the CCM Akash (even though the infra-red wavelengths might be different). Lightweight launch tube, cold-launch followed by motor ignition at safe distanc etc is common to MANPAD & MANPATGM.

Interesting days ahead
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by ashishvikas »

Akash-NG successfully tested again

New Generation Akash (#AkashNG) #missile successfully flight tested from Integrated Test Range off #Odisha coast. The missile intercepts a high-speed unmanned aerial target amid inclement weather conditions proving its all-weather capability.

https://twitter.com/TheHemantRout/statu ... 84385?s=20

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Prem Kumar
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

DRDO is on a roll!

Here's Rout's report on the tests a couple of days back: https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... 33382.html

What's very interesting is that the Akash-NG seems to be a "system on a truck". Surveillance, track & fire-control radar are all the same & are mounted in a 4-wall configuration on the same truck which carries the pack of 6 missiles.

The pictures of the truck are covered with the missile exhaust but from the angle, it looks like a slewable missile config, which makes one wonder how that works with the 4-wall radar. The missile is canisterized.

Even though this is only the 3rd test, the last 2 tests have been in a full-operational-configuration. It shows the level of maturity & confidence.

If its truly a "system on a truck", this is just insanely hi-tech!
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by ashishvikas »

Truck launcher from a different angle.. visibility is little better in this picture.

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https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 38852?s=20

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by jamwal »

Nice job DRDO. Is there any image or graphic about Akash battery structure? Reminds me of Tor.
This less complicated version could actually accompany a progressing army column deep in to enemy territory.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by arvin »

Prem Kumar wrote:AlphaDefense had an article saying the same thing earlier this month

https://alphadefense.in/drdo-vshorad-ma ... exclusive/
.
The specs: multi-spectral optical + Infrared + UV seeker, IFF, datalink, range, altitude, weight, ability to target cruise missiles & UAVs - all point to this being in the same class as the latest Igla (9K333 Verba) & Stinger-92E versions

The various programs feed off each other: there would be common elements in the optical/IIR seeker tech, LOBL of MANPAD, MANPATGM, Helina and the CCM Akash (even though the infra-red wavelengths might be different). Lightweight launch tube, cold-launch followed by motor ignition at safe distanc etc is common to MANPAD & MANPATGM.
.
Interesting days ahead
Good to see MANPADs in advance stage of development now. Something as basic as that should have been initiated as part of IGMDP in 80s.
MANPADs would have been a low hanging fruit to achieve since basic technology is 50s vintage. Even Chinis, Pakis, tiny Korea have their own versions.
This is something we should have been punching out in thousands. Instead we now pay for import of 3 different models Stinger, Igla, Mistral.

>>>common elements in the optical/IIR seeker tech, LOBL of MANPAD, MANPATGM, Helina

Generally MANPADs like stinger require only a simple photodiode cooled to operate in MWIR, while other two may require Imager optimized for SWIR\ MWIR.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by mody »

Prem Kumar wrote:
mody wrote:Does the Akash-NG have the same propulsion as the MRSAM-Barak8 or is it different? Would make sense to have common parts with the MRSAM, at least for the parts that have been developed by DRDO. The seeker and other parts that are supplied by Israel would have to be indigenized.
Also, which tracking and fire control radars are used for the Akash-NG? I am assumiing that they are different from the CAR and Rajendra PESA combo.
Don't know about radar but the propulsion is dual-pulse solid rocket. Same pedigree as MRSAM. That's why the range is similar too.
The Akahs-NG does not seem have a VLS launcher, unlike the MRSAM. The number of fins on the missile, also seems to be different. So the basic tech maybe dual pulse motor, but it doesn't have the exact same body. Wonder why. Maybe the non-VLS design is to keep the cost down. If deployed near the frontline it would be OK. The new AESA detection and FC radar is known though.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

We had a discussion several pages back about the pros & cons of a slewable vs VLS launcher. Both QRSAM and Akash-NG have slewable ones.

Thanks @ashishvikas for the launcher picture. I found a similar one in this nice article written by Firestarterz a couple of months back. The system on a truck model is confirmed, which is very, very cool!

I am not able to tell what the slewable launch angle limits are, from the picture.

https://firestarter.substack.com/p/akash-ng
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by AdityaM »

Would a truck mounted radar such as in this one be impacted by dense smoke and intense heat from the launch exhaust
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by jaysimha »

https://eurasiantimes.com/brahmos-missi ... -director/

BrahMos Missile: 1st Export Contract Of Indian-Russian Cruise Missile To Be Signed Once Pandemic Ends – Co-Director

By Sputnik July 20, 2021

The first contract for the export of BrahMos cruise missiles will be signed once the coronavirus pandemic ends, since such a deal requires an in-person government meeting, co-director of the joint Russian-Indian venture BrahMos Aerospace Alexander Maksichev told Sputnik.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Ashokk »

Akash-NG test on 23 Jul
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Check out this Twitter handle: has a nice infographic about the Akash-NG truck and its various elements

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 9340816387
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Another nice tweet from the same handle, that labels the various components of the Agni-1P MARV

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 1351363585
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by dinesha »

Army Chief Gen. Naravane inspects L&T's Strategic Systems Complex in Pune today.

Nice new TEL.. one which we have always aspired..

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Last edited by dinesha on 06 Aug 2021 22:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Vips »

If indeed this is a TEL for heavy missiles or other applications then why the SDRE/malnourished carriage set-up (tires)? :roll:
This jugaad mentality or making do with cheaper alternatives (COTS) needs to be junked. Expected at least L&T to not be like the PSU's.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by A Deshmukh »

Vips wrote:If indeed this is a TEL for heavy missiles or other applications then why the SDRE/malnourished carriage set-up (tires)?
maybe to keep the height low? so that it can navigate thru tunnels?
if someone can design and build a whole TEL, I am sure they would have thought thru the size of tyres.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by hnair »

Prem Kumar wrote:Check out this Twitter handle: has a nice infographic about the Akash-NG truck and its various elements

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 9340816387
Thanks. This is a good system that can be rapidly deployed at paki ingress corridors to prevent a post-Balakote kind of raid. . One can see it can swivel its side mounted boxes of 3x3 rounds all the way to vertical and back, but wonder what is the solution for slewing a missile towards its sides? Unless rhe vehicle has to make full turns and point. Or does it have guide vanes for a vertical launch?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Aditya_V »

If we can launch a SAM based on AEW/ AWACS data in the general area of the PAF fighters and then the SAM activate there own seekers when close to the Targets, PAF will loose a few aircraft and will give the IAF a free to Bomb PA and anything the IAF wants while retreating to their bases.

They did that in 1971, 1999 and in 2019 also after Swift retreat, PA knew they were on their own and put their T-80 UD tanks in civilian areas.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by John »

hnair wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Check out this Twitter handle: has a nice infographic about the Akash-NG truck and its various elements

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 9340816387
Thanks. This is a good system that can be rapidly deployed at paki ingress corridors to prevent a post-Balakote kind of raid. . One can see it can swivel its side mounted boxes of 3x3 rounds all the way to vertical and back, but wonder what is the solution for slewing a missile towards its sides? Unless rhe vehicle has to make full turns and point. Or does it have guide vanes for a vertical launch?
If doesn’t require lock on at launch (like Spyder) needs it only for terminal flight. So launcher doesn’t need to be pointed at the target (thought not doing that will reduce the range as it needs to steer to the target).
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by jamwal »

Take a look at iron dome missiles first going vertical in the video embedded in tweet, then doing a u-turn in desired direction. We don't have much information about Akash-NG yet, but it should be similar.

https://twitter.com/JaidevJamwal/status ... 8489593856

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Haridas »

jamwal wrote:https://twitter.com/JaidevJamwal/status ... 8489593856

Take a look at iron dome missiles first going vertical in the video embedded in tweet, then doing a u-turn in desired direction. We don't have much information about Akash-NG yet, but it should be similar.
The C-RAM round takes the incoming projectile in a headon attitude ( easiest interception for high pk), thus interceptor flies up into projected targets Ballistic trajectory.

SAM or AAM however take slant feed-forward trajectory, primarily becoz its a manuvering target.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Sonugn »

Nirbhay missle test fired using manik engine under the name of "ITCM". via Twiiter (engine performs as expected)
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by ashishvikas »

#JustIn Indigenous Technology Cruise Missile (ITCM) with Made-in-India Manik turbo fan engine test launched successfully from a defence facility off Odisha coast. The engine performs as expected. More tests to be conducted to master new tech: DRDO

https://twitter.com/TheHemantRout/statu ... 25446?s=20

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Toilet paper is saying that its been tested to 150 Km & more tests are planned to increase the confidence in the Manik engine
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by mody »

ZEE has also repeated the same line. Testing for 150 Kms doesn't make much sense. Will have to wait for more clarity.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Pratyush »

More than anything it is important to figure out the flight path and the time missile took for those 150 kms.

If the missile took an hour to reach that distance. Then 150 kms is meaningless.

Do we know what time the missile spent in the air?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... 58294.html

15 min flying time. Partial success - vehicle crashed (maybe control issue - sigh, not again!) but engine worked well.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by ashishvikas »

As far as today's ITCM developmental test is concerned: The indigenous small turbofan engine i.e. MANIK 'worked well'. Full range ITCM test is scheduled. ITCM = Indigenous technology cruise missile

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/142 ... 25031?s=20
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by jamwal »

150 km plus takeoff in 15 minutes is 600km/h. Isn't it the required speed?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Neela »

Last test is probably the 8th or 9th .
There seems to surely be scope creep and scope change for ITCM/Nirbhay . It has been almost 10 years.
Unless the decision has been made to make production version with Manik going forward. Still , control issues, new engine -too many moving parst still unresolved. Next test is full range . Hope it works.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by ashishvikas »

DRDO tastes maiden success with new turbofan engine in indigenous cruise missile

Detailed report by Hemant Kumar Rout

https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation ... 43378.html
This was the first developmental trial of the missile with the new indigenous engine after an unsuccessful attempt on October 12 last year as the mission had to abort due to a technical snag in the system.

“Equipped with the new engine the missile was tested for a short-range. The turbofan engine performed well. The focus was on gauging the performance of the engine, which has been validated by clearing decks for further advancement. The next test will be to cover the full range of the missile,” a senior defence official told The New Indian Express.

The small turbofan engine of 400 kg thrust class has been designed and developed by the Bengaluru-based Gas Turbine Research Establishment to propel cruise missiles.

“Manik has state of the art digital control, advanced fuel control, and pyro systems. The twin-spool engine without an afterburner and with high-speed alternator, un-cooled high-pressure turbine blades and shrouded low-pressure turbine blades, makes it different from others,” said a defence scientist.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Rout is usually reliable: so I'd go with his view that the test itself was only for a 10 min duration

Toilet paper Rajat Pandit, whose hands are greased I'm sure, is on his usual rhona-dhona that the test failed.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by ramana »

Prem, The Manik description matches Kaveri pedigree mini turbofan.
Manik has state of the art digital control, advanced fuel control, and pyro systems. The twin-spool engine without an afterburner and with high-speed alternator, un-cooled high-pressure turbine blades and shrouded low-pressure turbine blades, makes it different from others,” said a defence scientist.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Thanks Ramana. I noticed the similarity too.

Glad that a spin-off from Kaveri has seen the light of day. That alone is worth the R&D effort put in! The marine-Kaveri is years away from fruition, which was despairing to see.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Indranil »

The final configuration of Helina/Dhruvastra is now clear to me. The sustainer lies ahead of the booster. The Booster uses a blast tube and fixed nozzle+JVC at the back. The sustainer uses 2 lateral nozzles.

40 such missiles are being prepared.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by sanjayc »

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 18722?s=20 ---> India's Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) and MBDA-UK announced setting up a facility for the Final Assembly, Integration and Test (FAIT) of the HOBS capable Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missile (ASRAAM).
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/byMBDA/status/14279 ... 97697?s=20 ---> MBDA and BDL are establishing a new #ASRAAM facility in India as part of our strong commitment to Atmanirbhar Bharat.

https://twitter.com/CMDBDL/status/14276 ... 50499?s=20 ---> BDL and MBDA signed licence agreement today to setup facility at BDL for Final Assy, Integration & Test of 'Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air Missiles'.The agreement reinforces BDL's commitment to take forward #MakeinIndia initiative.

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