Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

[ramana]

Nirbhay tested

https://twitter.com/MeghBulletin/status ... ohbdA&s=19

Odd. No other news confirms this.
May be false news.

[basant]

Nirbhay tested

https://twitter.com/MeghBulletin/status ... ohbdA&s=19

Odd. No other news confirms this.
May be false news.

Ramana garu, the tweet disappeared. It looks like fake news.

[Aditya_V]

Brahmos tested from Su-30 and now cleared for Serial production

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/india-t ... production

[Kakarat]

Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh lauds DRDO, BrahMos, Indian Air Force &Industry on successful test firing - PIB

Air version of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile was successfully test fired from the supersonic fighter aircraft Sukhoi 30 MK-I at 1030 hrs from Integrated Test Range, Chandipur off the coast of Odisha on December 08, 2021. In this copy book flight, the missile launched from the aircraft followed the pre-planned trajectory meeting all mission objectives.

The launch is a major milestone in the BrahMos development. It clears the system for the serial production of air-version BrahMos missiles within the country. Major airframe assemblies which form the integral part of the Ramjet Engine are indigenously developed by Indian Industry. These include metallic and non-metallic air frame sections comprising Ramjet fuel tank and pneumatic fuel supply system. During the test,the structural integrity and functional performance have been proven. The air version of BrahMos was last flight tested in July 2021.

Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh has praised Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), BrahMos, Indian Air Force and the industry on the successful test firing.Congratulating the teams involved in the flight test, Secretary Department of Defence R&D and Chairman DRDO Dr G Satheesh Reddy said various laboratories of DRDO, academic institutions, quality assurance & certification agencies, Public Sector undertakings and Indian Air Force participated in the development, testing, production and induction of this complex missile system.

BrahMos is a Joint Venture between India (DRDO) and Russia (NPOM) for the development, production and marketing of the supersonic cruise missile. BrahMos is the potent offensive missile weapon system already inducted into the Armed Forces.

[Varoon Shekhar]

^^
Successful Brahmos test

Some good news, on a tragic and depressing day.

[srin]

This VL-SRSAM seems to be a stealth missile, absolutely invisible for many seconds after launch.

Either that, or they have released the worst video they possibly could (and hired absolute amateurs who couldn't focus on the only bright object in the sky).

[Kakarat]

It could be DRDO deliberately released a very low res video. The video first shows only the launcher and then the flight from long shot. VL-SRSAM is a small smokeless fast missile and how do you expect to see anything from low res long shot? They would have taken multiple high quality videos from various angles including high speed ones but just decided not to release them for public

[Pratyush]

Hopefully, this ends the circus Aamram purchase.

[John]

Hopefully, this ends the circus Aamram purchase.

VL SRSAM though there is plan for land based variant is not in same class as NASAMS-2, QRSAM is its counterpart. Regardless I think it was mainly to please Trump admin and it died with change in admin.

[ernest]

Noob pooch for the more experienced members:

I remember reading about the Sea Sparrow (from wiki) that it faced problems because the initial acceleration was poor given it (the original Sparrow A2A) was supposed to be launched at high speeds. This led to problems in engaging fast and maneuvering targets close to the vessel.

Has VL-SRSAM been modified enough from baseline Astra to address these concerns? The video shows it to be accelerating pretty fast, so I am guessing with that something was done.

Is the diameter increased to accommodate a larger motor like in case of Sea Sparrow? Or, were different propellants used? I see no booster in the pics, so I am ruling that option out. Though I haven't seen a clear pic of the missile exiting the VL cell.

Anything that is in public will help.

[Thakur_B]

^^ The interceptor is larger than Astra.

[Yagnasri]

Public pictures are different in respect of size, diameter etc. One can be sure all such things are taken into consideration.

[ernest]

Thank you for your replies. That is enough detail for me

[Aditya_V]

Well then next question is can VL SRAM when launched from aircraft act as a longer range Astra or Astra 2 causing nasty suprise to our adversaries

[John]

Well then next question is can VL SRAM when launched from aircraft act as a longer range Astra or Astra 2 causing nasty suprise to our adversaries

If it is just Astra with added vertical thrusters and increased propellant to increase its launch speed, there won’t be much of a range increase.

[Indranil]

VLSRSAM is not larger than Astra Mk1. It is slightly longer because of the JVC. Astra Mk1 itself had very high TWR. So no augmentation was required.

QRSAM is larger than Astra Mk1.

Astra Mk2 is almost identical to Astra Mk1 in overall dimensions. To the naked eye, one can't tell the difference. But it is 12 millimeters wider.

[nash]

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 4413895681

India successfully test fires cluster munitions version of Pinaka rocket.
Each rocket has 234 bomblets and will be used for area suppression strikes against enemy troop/vehicle concentrations.

All versions of Pinaka (Mk1, Mk2 and guided Pinaka) can be equipped with this warhead.

I hope we also get official confirmation of this test. Guided Pinaka with these munition will sanitize the Skardu like airbase or any military installation.

[Prem Kumar]

VLSRSAM is not larger than Astra Mk1. It is slightly longer because of the JVC. Astra Mk1 itself had very high TWR. So no augmentation was required.

QRSAM is larger than Astra Mk1.

Astra Mk2 is almost identical to Astra Mk1 in overall dimensions. To the naked eye, one can't tell the difference. But it is 12 millimeters wider.

Indranil: so, why is Astra-Mk2's range higher than Mk1? Better propellant?

[Prasad]

Dual Pulse motor.

[Prem Kumar]

Thanks, but how does that increase the range? I can understand why it will increase end-game effectiveness (NEZ)

[Patni]

Thanks, but how does that increase the range? I can understand why it will increase end-game effectiveness (NEZ)

The dual pulse motor has ON/OFF control or in lay terms can turn off and reignite its propellant. In lower or sustain mode the missile cruises without much acceleration but sustaining its instantaneous velocity. For example lets say it has two mode where full burn is 1x and sustain flight mode is with ignition off, assume full burn range at ~100km (powered flight) and it takes about 70 seconds to use up all the fuel (it has 140kg to start with, so assume it consumes at rate of 2kg per second if full pulse mode), then in principal if motor is on sustain flight mode for say 20 seconds in middle, it will save up about 40 kg of fuel during the off mode while still maintaining the velocity of the missile so when it goes back in full mode it can now accelerate better (lower weight) plus get 20 more seconds of fully powered flight time ergo increased range and wider no escape zone.

[Thakur_B]

Thanks, but how does that increase the range? I can understand why it will increase end-game effectiveness (NEZ)

Dual pulse allows the missile to take a more lofted trajectory where it can coast longer in rarified atmosphere and then gain velocity in second pulse for end game.

[ShivS]

Air resistance tends to vary quadratically with the speed of a missile.

To gain the maximum range you want a propulsion system that acts on the missile for a longer time but provides a lower maximum speed so as to minimise the air resistance over the trajectory - in very basic physics terms the peak speed (or the time spent at peak speed) is lower but the duration of the propulsion is higher.

There are several ways to achieve this but dual pulse rocket motors are a good method.

[Patni]

Thanks, but how does that increase the range? I can understand why it will increase end-game effectiveness (NEZ)

Dual pulse allows the missile to take a more lofted trajectory where it can coast longer in rarified atmosphere and then gain velocity in second pulse for end game.

Yes when referring to ICBM what you said is right but for A2A missiles trajectories are very different as you basically chasing enemy fighter and want to close in as fast as possible. I believe standard practice to break the lock is for fighter to go cold and dive to get into denser atmosphere and execute multiple rolls and turns to bleed off the momentum of tail chasing a2a missile.

[souravB]

The dual pulse motor has ON/OFF control or in lay terms can turn off and reignite its propellant.

Are you sure about this? AFAIK that technology is called throttable solid motor. Because conventionally solid propellants cannot be turned off once ignited. Dual pulse has propellants in two separate segments i.e. Boost-->Coast-->Boost.

[brar_w]

The dual pulse motor has ON/OFF control or in lay terms can turn off and reignite its propellant.

Are you sure about this? AFAIK that technology is called throttable solid motor. Because conventionally solid propellants cannot be turned off once ignited. Dual pulse has propellants in two separate segments i.e. Boost-->Coast-->Boost.

That's correct. It isn't "On" and "Off". It is a distinct second pulse the timing of which is controllable so that you can choose when to ignite the second pulse not the duration of either the first or second pulse like you can with liquid fuel. There are ways and technologies to get throttleability from solid rocket motors (a few DARPA programs are developing this) but those are at very early stages of maturity. A dual or multi-pulse motor is basically different separated segments firing at different times with possibly different and distinct grain properties and boost-sustain combinations. A dual pulse motor design doesn't increase the amount of propellant you have (it might even reduce it slightly) but gives you some flexibility in terms of delaying when the second pulse is ignited.

[Prem Kumar]

Thanks for the clarifications, gents.

Which brings me back to the original question. If dual-pulse = 2 single pulse motors (which means the total amount of propellant is the same) + dimensions are the same, how much extra range if any, can be squeezed out of a dual-pulse design?

The dual-pulse design is to increase the NEZ and give end-game maneurvability.

Yes, there is more control over trajectory shaping. But I am not so sure that we get a 160 Km Astra-2 from a 110 Km Astra-1 purely because of going from single-pulse to dual-pulse

[souravB]

Thanks for the clarifications, gents.
The dual-pulse design is to increase the NEZ and give end-game maneurvability.

You can time the 2nd pulse to give a boost i.e. more range or use it to gain energy i.e. maneuverability.

[brar_w]

Which brings me back to the original question. If dual-pulse = 2 single pulse motors (which means the total amount of propellant is the same) + dimensions are the same, how much extra range if any, can be squeezed out of a dual-pulse design?

When time to target is not the limiting factor, it allows you to plan profiles with an extended, slower cruise phase and recover energy using a second pulse so that you still have some margin as you complete the intercept. If time was a limiting factor you'd be firing both of them one after the other which would limit the engagement range. Its the same with air-breathers as well. Something employing a variable flow ducted rocket/ramjet is doing the same..i.e. using the first pulse to accelerate, and then using the air-breathing motor to cruise at a slower speed to extend range and then throttling up at the very last minute to regain some margin to manuever. If you force an air-breather to cruise at its fastest most speed it too will suffer range degradation.

[Atmavik]

Has Astra mk2 been tested. There was speculation that it could be tested in the summer but I don’t think it was tested.

[Kakarat]

Successful tests carried out for Pinaka Extended Range System, Area Denial Munitions & New Indigenous Fuzes - PIB

Successful tests of Pinaka Extended Range (Pinaka-ER), Area Denial Munitions (ADM) and indigenously developed fuzes have been carried out at various test ranges. The Pinaka-ER Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher System was successfully tested at Pokharan range. The system is jointly designed by laboratories of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) - Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE), Pune and High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL), Pune.

The DRDO, after establishing the performance efficacy of the enhanced range Pinaka, transferred the technology of the system to the industry. The Industry Partner has manufactured enhanced Pinaka Mk-1 rockets with DRDO’s handholding during the production and Quality Assurance. In continuation of the Transfer of Technology absorption, rockets developed by the industry have undergone the performance evaluation and quality certification process. The hand holding during the production, quality assurance and launch coordination for bulk production is being provided by the DRDO design team and QA agencies nominated for the system.

The DRDO, along with the Army, conducted series of performance evaluation trials of these industry produced rockets at Field Firing Ranges during the last three days. In these trials, enhanced range Pinaka rockets were test fired at different ranges with various warhead capabilities. All the trial objectives were met satisfactorily. A number of 24 rockets were fired for different ranges and warhead capabilities to meet the objectives of accuracy and consistency. With this, the initial phase of technology absorption of Pinaka-ER by the Industry Partner has successfully been completed making the Industry Partner ready for series production of the rocket system.

The Pinaka-ER is the upgraded version of earlier Pinaka version which has been in service with the Indian Army for the last decade. The system has been designed in the light of emerging requirements with advanced technologies enhancing the range.

The Area Denial Munition (ADM) variants of munition designed by the ARDE, Pune for Pinaka and manufactured by the industry partners under technology transfer were successfully carried out at Pokhran Field Firing Ranges. These trials are part of performance evaluation under technology absorption.

The indigenously-developed proximity fuzes for Pinaka rockets have also been tested. The ARDE, Pune has developed different fuzes for Pinaka rocket for different types of applications. After design validation trials, dynamic performance evaluation of these fuzes have been evaluated with flight testing. Consistency in performance of fuzes has been established in consecutive flight trials.

These has been developed through dedicated indigenous R&D efforts for the first time in the country. These indigenously developed fuzes will replace the imported fuzes and save foreign exchange. The ARDE has also designed miniaturised fuzes for ADMs. Performance of dual-purpose Direct-Action Self Destruction (DASD) & Anti-Tank Munition (ATM) fuzes were evaluated during the current flight trials and the results were satisfactory. All the mission objectives were successfully in all the above trials.

[Prem Kumar]

Looks like QRSAM was also tested yesterday per some Twitter handles.

DRDO seems to test in clusters these days. Might be easier to get all personnel & equipment in one place for a week and get a bulk of stuff tested

This round is: VL-SRSAM, Air-launched Brahmos, Pinaka-ER with new munitions, fuze & QRSAM

[Kakarat]

Looks like QRSAM was also tested yesterday per some Twitter handles.

DRDO seems to test in clusters these days. Might be easier to get all personnel & equipment in one place for a week and get a bulk of stuff tested

This round is: VL-SRSAM, Air-launched Brahmos, Pinaka-ER with new munitions, fuze & QRSAM

Some of the tests were in different places and different user

[ShivS]

Thanks for the clarifications, gents.

Which brings me back to the original question. If dual-pulse = 2 single pulse motors (which means the total amount of propellant is the same) + dimensions are the same, how much extra range if any, can be squeezed out of a dual-pulse design?

The dual-pulse design is to increase the NEZ and give end-game maneurvability.

Yes, there is more control over trajectory shaping. But I am not so sure that we get a 160 Km Astra-2 from a 110 Km Astra-1 purely because of going from single-pulse to dual-pulse

Dual pulse motors and differential burn rates are part of the mix - MK2 is a bit larger in diameter - should allow for a little more propellant too. May be of the order of 10%.

Don’t underestimate the impact of controlled burn rates - one of the key improvements in AIM 120 C was to use a mix of grain sizes that allowed for a “shaped’ burn profile.

That with some weight reduction gave a significant improvement in range.

[ShivS]

Looks like QRSAM was also tested yesterday per some Twitter handles.

DRDO seems to test in clusters these days. Might be easier to get all personnel & equipment in one place for a week and get a bulk of stuff tested

This round is: VL-SRSAM, Air-launched Brahmos, Pinaka-ER with new munitions, fuze & QRSAM

Or we need to be ready

Time may be coming.

[SSridhar]

Some of the tests were in different places and different user

And, monsoon had delayed some of them, perhaps.

[Kakarat]

Some of the tests were in different places and different user

And, monsoon had delayed some of them, perhaps.

More tests are lined up for the next few weeks so yes it seems to be the post monsoon lineup
The lineup include what seems to be a Agni-1P

[SSridhar]

India successfully tests multi barrel rocket launcher system Pinaka-ER - ToI

India successfully tested multi barrel rocket launcher system with extended range at Pokharan range, on Saturday.

Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) in a statement said that successful tests of Pinaka Extended Range (Pinaka-ER), Area Denial Munitions (ADM) and indigenously developed fuzes have been carried out at various test ranges.

The industry partner has manufactured enhanced Pinaka Mk-1 rockets with DRDO's hand holding during the production and Quality Assurance.

The DRDO, along with the Army, conducted series of performance evaluation trials of these industry produced rockets at Field Firing Ranges in the last three days. In these trials, enhanced range Pinaka rockets were test fired at different ranges with various warhead capabilities.

All the trial objectives were met satisfactorily. A total of 24 rockets were fired for different ranges and warhead capabilities to meet the objectives of accuracy and consistency.

With this, the initial phase of technology absorption of Pinaka-ER by the industry partner has successfully been completed making it ready for series production of the rocket system.

The Area Denial Munition (ADM) variants of munition designed by the ARDE, Pune for Pinaka and manufactured by the industry partners under technology transfer were successfully carried out at Pokhran Field Firing Ranges. These trials are part of performance evaluation under technology absorption.

The indigenously-developed proximity fuzes for Pinaka rockets have also been tested. The ARDE, Pune has developed different fuzes for Pinaka rocket for different types of applications. After design validation trials, dynamic performance evaluation of these fuzes have been evaluated with flight testing. Consistency in performance of fuzes has been established in consecutive flight trials.

The ARDE has also designed miniaturised fuzes for ADMs. Performance of dual-purpose Direct-Action Self Destruction (DASD) and Anti-Tank Munition (ATM) fuzes were evaluated during the current flight trials and the results were satisfactory. All the mission objectives were successfully in all the above trials.

industry produced rockets = Economic Explosives Ltd, Nagpur, produced rockets.

[Prasad]

We've had an extended monsoon season this time around. We should see an increase in tests now that weather is starting to clear up.

[ashishvikas]

@DRDO_India & IAF flight tests indigenously developed Helicopter launched Stand-off Anti-tank (SANT) missile from Pokhran ranges. Release mechanism, advanced guidance, tracking algorithms & all avionics with integrated software perform satisfactorily.

https://twitter.com/TheHemantRout/statu ... 0g04w&s=19


Press Release:

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleasePage.aspx?PRID=1780481

Watch the video

https://twitter.com/DRDO_India/status/1 ... -FetQ&s=19