Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Feb 2019 21:13

JayS wrote:
siddhu wrote:
It will use Manik engine for the next test.
Yep Manik in Nirbhay next test. GTRE guy confirmed Manik is good to go.

JayS, time to share all the goodies from AI-19. Recovery time over.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Feb 2019 00:41

JayS, I did some research on the Astra and aircraft platforms.
Astra is launched from Vympel launcher. All four IAF fighter aircraft : Su-30MKi, M29UPG, M2K UPgrade, Tejas have Vympel launchers.
To get accuracy at long standoff 60 km + Astra needs mid-course correction provided by data-link on launch aircraft passing radar data.
I believe and need to confirm that the data-link is standard DRDO black box. It takes data from radar and sends it to air to air and air to ground says the description. So it would not be difficult to integrate Astra on any of the four aircraft and thats the confidence of the DRDL folks you met.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 26 Feb 2019 01:11

Astra on Su-30MKI had to go thru extensive wind tunnel testing. There could be issues like those mentioned in DDR article about the mid board tank causing aero interference on bombs next to it. Then there will have to be carriage and separation trials before actual firing. Couple of years minimum on LCA, that's when they know it's aero profile perfectly. Mig-29 and others may take longer.

Just as there are 2 MKIs with ASTE for testing Astra, Brahmos, NGARM, SAAW, etc, we will need dedicated resources for ongoing armament upgrades on any new platform.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 26 Feb 2019 11:06

#BREAKING #India successfully test fires short range Quick Reaction Surface to Air #Missile (QRSAM) from a test facility off #Odisha coast. The sleek & highly mobile air defence system fired from a canister mounted on a rotatable truck-based launch unit. @NewIndianXpress
Twitter Link

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 26 Feb 2019 15:15

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1100322032351354880

JUST IN: India’s @DRDO_India tests QRSAM (quick reaction surface to air missile) from the east coast test range in Odisha. (Photo/@ANI)

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 26 Feb 2019 16:17

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonMoD/sta ... 0195618818

@DefenceMinIndia congratulates @DRDO_India 4 successful test firing of indigenous QRSAM (Quick Reaction Surface to Air Msls) demonstrating robust control, aerodynamics & manoeuvring capabilities. @nsitharaman conveys her appreciation to the team on achieving all main objective

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 26 Feb 2019 16:19

Is this 2 stage missile based on AStra, so once the initial booster is exhausted, the smokeless propellant of the Astra will show up.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 26 Feb 2019 16:58

https://twitter.com/DefenceMinIndia/sta ... 2715619328

Smt @nsitharaman congratulates @DRDO_India and the Defence Industry for successful test-firing of two indigenously-developed Quick Reaction Surface to Air Missiles(QRSAM). The missile have radars with search on move capability. The project was sanctioned by the govt in July 2014.

The link has a video of today's test

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 26 Feb 2019 17:54

Twin Success for Quick Reaction Surface-to-Air Missile-PIB

Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) successfully test fired indigenously developed Quick Reach Surface-to-Air missiles (QRSAM) from ITRChandipur, off the Odisha Coast today. The two missiles were tested for different altitude and conditions. The test flights successfully demonstrated the robust Control, Aerodynamics, Propulsion, Structural performance and high manoeuvring capabilities thus proving the design configuration.

Radars, Electro Optical Systems, Telemetry and other stations have tracked the Missiles and monitored through the entire flights. All the mission objectives have been met.

RakshaMantriSmt Nirmala Sitharaman congratulated DRDO on the successful test flights and said the indigenously developed state-of-the-art QRSAM will significantly boost the defence capabilities of our armed forces.

https://twitter.com/DRDO_India/status/1 ... 3826778112

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 01 Mar 2019 17:53

According to India's Ministry of Defence, 3 sets of the MANIK Small Turbofan Engine developed by @DRDO_India are to be integrated with the Nirbhay cruise missile for testing. The integration work is being done by Brahmos Aerospace Thiruvananthapuram Limited.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/110 ... 48129?s=19

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Mar 2019 21:25

Thats timely for India needs the loiter capability more than ever.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2019 22:19

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_Smar ... eld_Weapon

SAAW is nearing IOC after 8 tests. it has gps/glonass/irnss guidance which is ok as a first step. it will be cheap as it as no seeker.

next step is a SAAW2.0 more like SDB2 with a uncooled cheap IR seeker to image certain library objects to get around satellite jamming fudging or denial. uncooled IR will not work in heavy rains/dust/burning rubber tires but can function in other situations.

finally SAAW3.0 with a dual mode uncooled IIR + MMW would make it fit for all weather gps denied enviroments.

this can be our standard 100kg 100km smart weapon. suitable for jihad factory microservices targets.

Garuda kit for the 450kg HSLD 40km max
Garuthma kit for 450kg HSLD 100km max
these would be for heavy targets like airbases, factories

we better get into pragmatic mode now and stop wasting time on pie in sky A330 phalcons. get hold of EMB145/EMB195/G550 whatever fits the bill and mount the new powerful DRDO radar as a wedgetail type system and get 6 in one lot.

IAF Is no longer the weapon of last resort (escalation booboo of UPA eras) or a force in being , it is the weapon of first resort and must plan accordingly

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 01 Mar 2019 22:25

StormBreaker/SDB2 has a tri mode seeker (MMW/SAL/IIR) with GPS/INS for navigation.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2019 22:27

brar_w wrote:StormBreaker/SDB2 has a tri mode (MMW/SAL/IIR) with GPS/INS for navigation.

I am not lusting for tri-mode seekers ... of SBD2 or Spear3 ilk ..... there is no point delaying things 10 years to get a productized domestic tri mode seeker when we have just about made a MMW seeker and lack any cooled seeker history in AAM arena.

the hyena is already pawing at our door.we need it yesterday.need work in soviet union mode.

uncooled IIR will be good first effort.
and adapting the Helina MMW seeker should be ok as its also airborne weapon (G qualifications, form factor, cooling etc)

basic Xiaomi note7 please before iphoneXL.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 01 Mar 2019 22:29

Right, I agree but I was pointing to the reference to your post where you mentioned that the SDB2 approach was to go for a cheap IIR seeker. An IIR seeker will do well sort of like what the Spice family offers in a larger form factor.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 02 Mar 2019 13:23

Singha wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_Smar ... eld_Weapon

SAAW is nearing IOC after 8 tests. it has gps/glonass/irnss guidance which is ok as a first step. it will be cheap as it as no seeker.

...

SAAW 1.0 already has MMW seeker no? It is more TFTA than Spice that only has a IIR seeker.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 02 Mar 2019 13:28

abhik wrote:
Singha wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_Smar ... eld_Weapon

SAAW is nearing IOC after 8 tests. it has gps/glonass/irnss guidance which is ok as a first step. it will be cheap as it as no seeker.

...
SAAW 1.0 already has MMW seeker no? It is more TFTA than Spice that only has a IIR seeker.

MMW seeker can be used in more adverse climatic conditions, IIR imparts more deadliness (ability to identify windows in a building for entry).

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 06 Mar 2019 12:59

India’s new anti-tank guided missile to enter production by end of 2019
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/npc/20 ... ry2019.pdf

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 06 Mar 2019 14:26

Why is Nag a third gen?
I thought wire guided was third gen?

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 06 Mar 2019 18:43

If Nag goes into production then Helina can't be that far away.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2019 00:48

I think people should stop lusting for US goods.
First they wont be sold to India and will have use restrictions.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Mar 2019 10:52

Any Idea what is the Status of Astra production, we know the R-77 improvements are required, I think Astra in numbers will be very useful

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Mar 2019 11:07

a pre-production batch of 50 was ordered in Sept2017 and some or all were delivered by Sept2018 when it was tested successfully 6 times in 7 days.

so atleast one Su30 squadron will be having this weapon now.

more production would be ongoing at BDL...

https://www.financialexpress.com/defenc ... t/1336126/

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Mar 2019 11:10

Good to hear

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Mar 2019 11:11

GD, The SU-30 @ VS 2019 fired a production batch Astra

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 07 Mar 2019 12:31

Hope Astra induction happens in double-quick time. Following the mauling at the hands of IAF, the PAF has gone ahead and ordered PL-15 long range AAMs from China. No idea if it works as advertised, but it has a 150 Km range.

The enemy has made his moves. We must make ours pronto.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Mar 2019 12:42

must be a anti awacs/cap sniping plan.
but considering they do not trust the pl12 over the older amraamc5, i wonder how good it will be.

none of their fighter radars have the range to target anything @ 150km though.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Mar 2019 12:51

Ot but any order will take 2-3 years to operationalise, it is empty bravado

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Mar 2019 12:57

PL-15 won't be integrated into F16s. What radar does the bandars have now?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Mar 2019 13:15

Apart from one test it is not even certain JF 17 radar has BVR capability and it is assumed the Chinese have it operational in numbers that they can spare to Pakistan. It is like saying India will have Metoer tomorrow on M 2000 along with R-33/r37 Missiles on MIG 31on our SU 30's and everything will be deployed.

This is assuming all missiles are plug and play and readily available, lets go the shop and get a USB.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 07 Mar 2019 13:24

Singha wrote:must be a anti awacs/cap sniping plan.
but considering they do not trust the pl12 over the older amraamc5, i wonder how good it will be.

none of their fighter radars have the range to target anything @ 150km though.

Their Erieye might be able to provide data-links, assuming the Pakis are capable of such integration or whether Saab will allow it. That being said, it could potentially be a deterrent to our AWACS operation.

Aditya: from news reports, Pakis have ordered from an existing stock. Might be inducted quickly.

What's clear is that the enemy is moving quickly and with a certain plan in mind. As much as they are a laughable stock, we mustn't underestimate them.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Mar 2019 13:30

Not underestimating them, but how practical is it. Enemy will also create psy ops to deter from hitting his aircraft or deterring him. I am sure USA/ Gulf have enough influence to inspect any Chinese equipment sold to Pakistan.

There is no clarity on the reliability/ Tests on the PL 15 yet with the PLAAF, suddenly China has decided to give its best missile to the Pakis from its existing stocks, integrate it overnight to a JF 17 without any carriage tests etc and fire it. This does not seem possible and Pakis have floated many such stories just to keep our forces on edge or showing superiority.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Mar 2019 13:35

Prem Kumar wrote:Hope Astra induction happens in double-quick time. Following the mauling at the hands of IAF, the PAF has gone ahead and ordered PL-15 long range AAMs from China. No idea if it works as advertised, but it has a 150 Km range.

The enemy has made his moves. We must make ours pronto.

Source?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 07 Mar 2019 13:36

We're only now seeing PLAAF fighters carrying their new bvr missile. Wouldn't put it past them to give a few to porkis to test them out in real-world situations against a topclass AF with ecm/ew that have proved effective against AIM-120C.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Mar 2019 13:37

Singha wrote:must be a anti awacs/cap sniping plan.
but considering they do not trust the pl12 over the older amraamc5, i wonder how good it will be.

none of their fighter radars have the range to target anything @ 150km though.

Poor mans Meteor basically

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 07 Mar 2019 13:41

Actually such psy-ops is good for us too, if it can cut our red tape and make inductions faster. Remember how the Arjun program was launched in response to the Abrams threat?

Here is another prediction: Pakis will beg for HQ-9's from China to plug their air defences.

We should up the game, if such a thing happens. Just like with Syria and S-400s, if Chinese supply Pakis with long range missiles, we must launch a diplomatic & economic offensive against China. Plus, we must pre-emptively conduct air-strikes and sabotage operations against such systems. An airstrike during the transfer, halal'ing a handful of Chinese, will send the right message across.

This arms race cannot be won by passive means alone.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 07 Mar 2019 13:58

As per VK Thakur, NGARM is an air to air anti radiation missile while Rudra is an air to surface anti radiation missile. Any merit to this statement?

nam · Post by **nam** » 07 Mar 2019 15:10

Prem Kumar wrote:Hope Astra induction happens in double-quick time. Following the mauling at the hands of IAF, the PAF has gone ahead and ordered PL-15 long range AAMs from China. No idea if it works as advertised, but it has a 150 Km range.

The enemy has made his moves. We must make ours pronto.

It is fake news. JF17 radar does not have the range to use a Ramjet BVR. Moreover there is no public news on it's induction in PLAAF.

It would bit rich to expect PLAAF handing over it's most recent tech to PAF.

However from our point, in future PAF will get it, makes it easier to concentrate on China as the single source.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 07 Mar 2019 15:11

Thakur,

No, per DRDO a glimpse ebook NGARM is for A2G targets. It is likely Rudra M1. Rudra M2, M2A, M3 etc are NGARM missile variants (missile design wise) with different seekers for different A2G functions (check AVM Nambiars interview in Salute).

nam · Post by **nam** » 07 Mar 2019 15:13

Thakur_B wrote:As per VK Thakur, NGARM is an air to air anti radiation missile while Rudra is an air to surface anti radiation missile. Any merit to this statement?

If you see it next to Astra, it is exactly like Astra, but bigger. Hopefully once it goes in service, we will get some details.