Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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nachiket
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nachiket »

Prem Kumar wrote:
vera_k wrote:^ There was this article. Since it is 2022, what is left to be done?

India to be missile-import free by 2022: DRDO to PMO
We are almost there. Which means the GOI can put "All missiles" in the no-import list, rather than restrict them by type.

WVR AAM & MANPADs are the only ones which we don't have today. But DRDO is working on both of them already
I'm guessing this has to exclude imports for existing platforms? MICA and Meteor and SCALP for the Rafales, Derby and ASRAAM for Tejas and Jaguar, R-73 For MKI's, Mig-29's and Tejas etc. Then there's the A2G missiles like the Kh-31, Kh-35 etc. New indigenous missiles aren't going to be immediately integrated in all assets and some may never get them.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Rakesh »

And if an American fighter is chosen for the MRFA or MRCBF contests, then more import of missiles will come.

Also need to replenish Harpoon stocks, as and when they are used by the IN's P-8Is.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by vera_k »

Also, Akash and Brahmos export has been achieved. Not sure if the Pragati was exported yet, but that is 2/3.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nachiket »

Rakesh wrote: Also need to replenish Harpoon stocks, as and when they are used by the IN's P-8Is.
Yes I forgot the Harpoons. Also add the Klubs, Exocets and ship launched Urans and Shtils for the IN.
And if an American fighter is chosen for the MRFA or MRCBF contests, then more import of missiles will come.
God forbid!
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by John »

vera_k wrote:Also, Akash and Brahmos export has been achieved. Not sure if the Pragati was exported yet, but that is 2/3.
Who did we export Akash to? I don’t recall that news.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by vera_k »

My bad. I saw a news item about Akash exports, but that was just the government authorizing it to be exported. Doesn't look like there's a customer yet.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Hope the Philippines deal opens the floodgates and we export Brahmos to Vietnam & Indonesia too. Followed by Tejas etc
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Barath »

Rakesh wrote:Also need to replenish Harpoon stocks, as and when they are used by the IN's P-8Is.
Harpoons are for use on P8i but also for INS Shankush and INS Shalki post upgrade (through torpedo tube), and also, I suspect India's maritime strike Jaguars also. ie the IAF and not just IN

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... YPrZK.html

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... -time.html

https://thediplomat.com/2016/10/upgrade ... -missiles/

There are foreign missiles on lots of platforms whether IN (eg Exocet for kalvari, Klub,...) IAF, or IA. Not every one would make sense to replace/integrate immediately. But can be prioritized based on volume and strategy. and especially chance of adding capabilities. (cost/capability). Better to standardize where one can (eg VLS)
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Pratyush »

Eventually, when it comes to the multiple Anti ship missiles. It will make sense to replace them with a common family of domestic missiles.

I suspect that it will be possible for India to do so with relatively low efforts. Because it has already done the hard work for integration of P8's sensors data with the fire control computers of Brahmos, Exocet, and Kh35 shooting platforms.

If this has already been done. Then it will also be possible for India to be modify the fire control computers of different types of platforms for a domestically sourced family of light Anti ship missiles.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nam »

Mod Note: Please do not requote pictures when reposting. Post Edited.
If this is true, we may have already seen the Astra MK2! It is VL-SRSAM!

Check this image of VL-SRSAM. The mid section seems pronounced compared to the regular Astra.

Mod Note: Please do not post pictures without the link. Post Edited.

So my guess that VL-SRSAM is Astra 2 may be correct. No point making VL-SRSAM out of Mk1. The VL-SRSAM gave the chance to land fire Mk2 and folded wings for AMCA weapon bay!

The only thing missing may be the AESA seeker. I suppose the delay in Su30 firing Mk2 may have to do with the integration issue and getting the ejector launcher sorted out.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nam »

There have some murmur on the twitter about Vietnam wanting Akash NG. Our RM recently went ( or is to go) to Vietnam with the same proposal.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nam »

Regarding the b*** p*** by the FAS ayotollah about Agni 1P, i am sure it was about it being a fully composite missile. Especially the first stage. It is not about MIRV or counter force.

The latest toy in the town is hypersonic. The ayotollahs know that A1P first stage( or a variant) is going to be used as our scramjet carrier. They want the US admin to try to stop us from deploying the hypersonics, by stopping the composite motor development.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/148 ... 61888?s=20 ---> Difficult to overstate the significance of this document. BrahMos Corp's struggle to obtain export licenses to several other interested nations have remained frozen for over a decade now. Our 2016 piece paints a picture: https://livefistdefence.com/big-indian- ... os-export/
https://twitter.com/arunp2810/status/14 ... 44546?s=20 ---> Agree with @livefist. This is a long-delayed decision, which could alter the India-China strategic equation. By arming its Indo-Pacific friends, India not only helps bolster their security, but also gives China a dose of its own medicine! Vietnam & Indonesia, too, are waiting.

The above tweet is from Admiral Arun Prakash, former Chief of Naval Staff - Indian Navy.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by ramana »

Lets discuss exports in the Military Exports thread. Thanks, ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by mody »

The new import ban policy document of GOI says that Klub and Igla-S import is also likely out of the picture. Klub will be replaced by Brahmos and possibly Nirbhay for the land attack role. Igla-S import if cancelled would mean that the DRDO Man Portable VSHORAD project is progressing well and we could see the program producing good results over the next 2 years.
With regards to WVR AAMs, we have a reasonable stock of R-73 missiles. Maybe the Python-V has been procured in limited numbers as well. The ASRAAM is likely to be assembled in India via screwdrivergiri and this will pass muster for sometime, till DRDO can come up with a Astra-IR missile.

Also, if ASRAAM is assembled in India and and gets integrated with the Su-30MKI and Tejas, that leaves very little scope for Python-V to come in as well, given that a large number of R-73E are already available in stock and integrated on M2K, Mig-29s, Su-30MKI and Tejas.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Pratyush »

How many CLGM tests have been carried out?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nam »

Missing link on the VL-SrSAM image. The mid body is pronounced. I think this is the Astra MK2.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ped%29.jpg

Image
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 18917?s=20 ---> Amogha-III ATGM by India's Bharat Dynamics Limited.

Image
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by sanjayc »

If we manage to complete the development of all these products and induct into service, the leverage it will give us in any theater of the world will be immense. India can tilt the balance of power in any region by suppling arms to any one country. That is when India will begun to be taken seriously on the world stage, and not like today when Nepal, Maldives, Srilanka show us the middle finger with a mocking attitude
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 18917?s=20 ---> Amogha-III ATGM by India's Bharat Dynamics Limited.
Is it an indigenous effort by BDL? Though I've seen brochures for Amogha, I don't recall any test done so far
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Pratyush »

Curious minds want to know where are Amogha I &II.

If this is Amogha III.

Prem,

This is an effort with DRDO dating back a few years. In parallel with the VEM effort. We have seen a few flight trials for this missile in the last few years.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by John »

I think III is for third generation.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Thakur_B »

Pratyush wrote:Curious minds want to know where are Amogha I &II.

If this is Amogha III.

Prem,

This is an effort with DRDO dating back a few years. In parallel with the VEM effort. We have seen a few flight trials for this missile in the last few years.
Amogha 1 and 2 are Milan and Konkurs derivatives.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Ashokk »

NOTAM 22-25 January 2022 [HSTDV]
#AreaWarning #India issues a notification for the launch of an experimental flight vehicle over the #BayOfBengal

Launch Window | 22-25 January 2022
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Gyan »

Amogha 1 & 2 are wire guided and RF guided. I think Amogha 2 makes more sense as it’s cheaper
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by SSridhar »

Prem Kumar wrote:Though I've seen brochures for Amogha, I don't recall any test done so far
Two tests of the missile, for its full range, were successfully completed in Ahmednagar on 15th & 16th September, 2018. Another successful test was completed on September 11, 2019 from a firing range in Kurnool, Andhra Pradesh. The missile was fired from a tripod and target was simulated to be a functional tank. The missile succeeded in hitting the target in the top attack mode and completely decimated the target. This is the third successful test firing of missile system. On July 21, 2021, the DRDO successfully flight-tested again. In the DefExpo 2020 at Lucknow in February, 2020, BDL officially launched promoted Amogha-III (along with Varunastra)
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Thanks guys. Good to know that we have at least 2 options for the forces. Not sure where VEM is with their missile.

No reason to be importing Konkurs, Milans, Kornets, Spikes or Javelins anymore.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by rohitvats »

X-Posting my own post:

India and Anti-Tank Guided Missile Scenario:

- As per a 2010 news report, the Indian Army along has an inventory of more than 80,000 Anti-Tank Guided Missiles (ATGMs).

- In this episode of The Perspective, we take a look at various types of ATGMs employed by the Indian Army, and the Indian Air Force. And the platforms which employ these missiles.

- The program evaluate the various indigenous ATGM programs and their key features.

- An analysis is done where 3rd Generation, Fire & Forget ATGMs being developed by DRDO are mapped against existing 2nd Generation, Semi-Automatic, Command to Line-of-Sight (SACLOS) ATGMs of the Indian Army and the IAF.

- The final analysis shows which DRDO anti-tank missile will replace which of the existing ATGMs of the Army and the IAF.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Rakesh »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 18917?s=20 ---> Amogha-III ATGM by India's Bharat Dynamics Limited.
https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 73603?s=20 ---> The CLU & Seeker for Amogha 3 ATGM has top of the line & advanced features/capabilities.

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 29697?s=20 ---> IMO if advanced features provided by Tonbo CLU & seeker are leveraged fully for Amogha 3 than IMO it will have capabilities equal to equivalent class Spike ATGM. And AFAIK seeker andCLU has provision for wireless link which if implemented will - IMO - allow man-in-the-loop capability.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Sonugn »

Today India successfully test fired a new version of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile off the coast of Odisha in Balasore. The missile was equipped with new technological developments which were successfully proven: Defence sources via ANI
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nam »

750KM wala Brahmos.

Next one is HSTDV..
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by kit »

Rakesh wrote:
Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 18917?s=20 ---> Amogha-III ATGM by India's Bharat Dynamics Limited.
https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 73603?s=20 ---> The CLU & Seeker for Amogha 3 ATGM has top of the line & advanced features/capabilities.

https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 29697?s=20 ---> IMO if advanced features provided by Tonbo CLU & seeker are leveraged fully for Amogha 3 than IMO it will have capabilities equal to equivalent class Spike ATGM. And AFAIK seeker andCLU has provision for wireless link which if implemented will - IMO - allow man-in-the-loop capability.
I think IA would need a lighter less sophisticated version of ATGM to be a sort of jack of all trades against paki vermin.. much more portable and lighter version., the BA/Saab NLAW (Next generation Light Anti-tank Weapon) weighs just 12.5 kg. The Amogha is way overkill for jihadi trucks etc, also the weapon of 12.5 kg can be quad mounted onto armed UAVs
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by SinghS »

nam wrote:750KM wala Brahmos.
Excuse me for the nit-picking. But in true desi bania's ways...wasn't it supposed to be 800+ ?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Dilbu »

Brahmos missile test-fired validating several new indigenous systems: DRDO
THE Brahmos Supersonic Cruise Missile was test-fired from Integrated Test Range (ITR) off the coast of Odisha on Thursday morning validating several new indigenous systems, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) said.

The DRDO said, “BrahMos supersonic cruise missile with increased indigenous content and improved performance was successfully test fired at 10.30 am from Integrated Test Range, Chandipur off the coast of Odisha on January 20. The launch was conducted by Brahmos Aerospace in close coordination with DRDO teams. In this text book flight, the missile followed the predicted trajectory meeting all mission objectives.”

The agency further said, “The flight test is a major milestone in the way forward for BrahMos programme. The highly maneuverable missile cruised at supersonic speed for its maximum range and all mission objectives were met. The missile was equipped with the advanced indigenous technologies and followed a modified optimal trajectory for enhanced efficiency and improved performance. The missile with the modified control system has been fine tuned to achieve an enhanced capability.”
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by arvin »

kit wrote:
I think IA would need a lighter less sophisticated version of ATGM to be a sort of jack of all trades against paki vermin.. much more portable and lighter version., the BA/Saab NLAW (Next generation Light Anti-tank Weapon) weighs just 12.5 kg. The Amogha is way overkill for jihadi trucks etc, also the weapon of 12.5 kg can be quad mounted onto armed UAVs
NLAW effective range is just from 20m to 600m. More suitable for urban combat looks like. The supplies of NLAW that UK gave to UK-raine could be for situation if tanks are rolling into Keiv.

The capability for Amogha-3 looks impressive. The IIR seeker could be adapted for a desi ASRAAMsque WVR missile.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Pratyush »

MBT LAW is too expensive.

IMHO a better option might be to develop a disposable unguided 6 inch shaped charged warhead. But mated to a quick attachment smart fire control system.

The FCS could be upto 5 lakhs rupees in cost. The rocket it self should be under 50 K.

IIRC, the Israelis have something very similar in 120 mm calibre.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nam »

SinghS wrote:
nam wrote:750KM wala Brahmos.
Excuse me for the nit-picking. But in true desi bania's ways...wasn't it supposed to be 800+ ?
Notam was less than 780KM. So it must be the 750KM version.

I suppose a 1000KM version would be a longer/larger diameter Brahmos. May be it might fit on the ships, however the land version should be fine.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by kit »

arvin wrote:
kit wrote:
I think IA would need a lighter less sophisticated version of ATGM to be a sort of jack of all trades against paki vermin.. much more portable and lighter version., the BA/Saab NLAW (Next generation Light Anti-tank Weapon) weighs just 12.5 kg. The Amogha is way overkill for jihadi trucks etc, also the weapon of 12.5 kg can be quad mounted onto armed UAVs
NLAW effective range is just from 20m to 600m. More suitable for urban combat looks like. The supplies of NLAW that UK gave to UK-raine could be for situation if tanks are rolling into Keiv.

The capability for Amogha-3 looks impressive. The IIR seeker could be adapted for a desi ASRAAMsque WVR missile.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 023178.cms

"AT4 will be used by the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force," it said.

Operated by a single soldier, the single-shot system has proven efficacy against structures, landing craft, helicopters, armoured vehicles and personnel, the statement said.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Other than the NOTAM and the intentionally vague official press release, is there any confirmation that the new Brahmos version is in the 700-800 Km range?

It seems like some major changes were introduced because the Rooskies also witnessed the test.

If its indeed 700+ Km, how did they pack this much additional range in the same missile dimensions?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nachiket »

Prem Kumar wrote:Other than the NOTAM and the intentionally vague official press release, is there any confirmation that the new Brahmos version is in the 700-800 Km range?

It seems like some major changes were introduced because the Rooskies also witnessed the test.

If its indeed 700+ Km, how did they pack this much additional range in the same missile dimensions?
Well the P-800 Oniks which it is based on can fly 600km. The export version Yakhont is limited to 300km. So the airframe is definitely capable of longer ranges but only in certain flight profiles and when it is not artificially limited to 300km. They must have tried out some flight profile optimizations here.
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