Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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brar_w
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by brar_w »

^^ That is not how any of the BGV's I've seen been described. The US ones are very much majority BG and minority ballistic. Over their entire designed engagement range (medium - intermediate range depending upon system and whether AL or GL/SL application) In fact, that was the entire point (otherwise they wouldn't have been treaty compliant since the programs were launched pre-treaty demise). You are probably looking at 20-30% max ballistic with the rest within the atmosphere and in the glide phase for the highest tech ones.

There is a CSIS event from last year, in which Mike Griffin, the then head of US R&E basically dropped the biggest hint into the gliding altitudes we are talking about here. That and other published material points to that 2/3 - 1/3 mix being the most optimal for NG HBGV systems. I'm traveling but can share some details later.
tsarkar wrote:
Question to guru's -

1. What is the military need for such complex air breathing machines when ballistic missiles can leave the atmosphere, travel faster than Mach 6 in the absence of atmospheric friction, and with the help of small thrusters and limited control surfaces perform rentry maneuvers to evade any missile defenses?

2. What terminal guidance mechanisms other than INS+GPS work on these weapons?

3. What is the payload they can carry?
1. Scramjet was complex to design but that challenge is manageable now. Has been for well over a decade. probably even longer. What you need is to get from tens of second from engine on time, to hundreds of seconds to high single digit minutes (and then progressively to tens of minutes for larger systems). And then open up the envelope. Being able to keep the engine "alive" while performing the sort of maneuvers required to support targeting and evasion is a challenge which you only get to once you can keep the engine on for a while.

Crawl --> Walk --> Run.

But this is important to do as these weapons will be major players in future wars. Even the design challenge has been largely solved. They still remain a manufactering challenge and that has constantly been a damper as to build affordably at scale has been very challenging and hence been pointed to the tech's limitation by skeptics (even within the operator community). However, additive mfg is changing that. Northrop Grumman has designed, built and begun testing a 1,000 km+ ranged scramjet engine (and weapon) built entirely by 3d printing. Perhaps there lies the answer. Anyhow, technology catches up and what was once complex need not remain so.


2. A seeker though jumping from a Mach 2-3 terminal seeker to a Mach 6-7 terminal seeker is not easy, especially given some of these design configurations. But you need to work on that and solve that problem. Even INS/GPS gets you highly accurate targeting against non-mobile, well defended targets.

3. Payload is a function of target set and other design parameters. Depending upon the engine size they can carry anything from a small payload (relying predominantly on kinetic impact) to a large payload. It comes down to the thrust class of the engine and what sized vehicle it can support at what range.

With hypersonic weapons, a good way to "think" the weapon sets are how they achieve the "hypersonic" speeds. BGV's, buy all their velocity upfront via the booster which can take them as fast Mach 15- Mach 20 or even more. There the challenge / cost is in exotic materials, and surviving multiple orders of magnitudes of within atmosphere flight relative to a long range ballistic missile. That and building compact, highly packed boosters.

With scramjets, you don't buy the speed upfront so you can build them in smaller form factors for tactical applications. You get it right and you can look at a "Brahmos" like weapon at half the weight with about twice the speed. That's what DARPA has been able to do with HAWC for example. So while you may only be able carry 1 x MR/IR ranged BGV on a tactical fighter, yo can carry 2 or even 4 HAWC like weapons on a heavy strike fighter. And a lot more on larger crafts. So while they are shorter ranged and slower, you have more of them yet they still acheive the terminal impact velocity of BGV's (just not the TTT).
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Philip
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Philip »

Is there any idea of the approx.cost let's say of a 300 to 500km hyper-M? The US,etc. may have worked out some tentative figures. The inventory of such missiles if ultra-expensive would far
and few between,used only for the most important targets.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by tsarkar »

This was the basis of my earlier questions.

Around 10 years ago -

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/scien ... 482010.ece
The missile rose on the dot at 2.30 p.m. from a canister strapped on to the ground, climbed to an altitude of 40 km and sped at 7.5 Mach, that is, 7.5 times the speed of sound. It covered its full range of 700 km in 500 seconds.

The surface-to-surface missile performed a manoeuvre in the closing stages of its flight
hit the impact point in the Bay of Bengal with an accuracy of a few metres
Mr. Avinash Chander said it was “an entirely atmospheric flight” at a height of 40 km.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/02/ ... water.html
Now top DRDO scientists have revealed that the Shaurya is not a ballistic missile, as it has been thought to be; it is actually a hypersonic cruise missile, which never leaves the atmosphere. A ballistic missile is like a stone being lobbed towards a target. Rockets toss it upwards and towards the target; after the rocket burns out, gravity pulls the missile warhead down towards the target. Buffeted by wind and re-entry forces, accuracy is a problem; and, since the ballistic missile’s path is predictable, shooting it down is relatively easy.

The Shaurya has none of these issues. Its solid-fuel, two-stage rocket accelerates the missile to six times the speed of sound before it reaches an altitude of 40 kilometers (125,000 feet), after which it levels out and cruises towards the target, powered by its onboard fuel. While ballistic missiles cannot correct their course midway, the Shaurya is an intelligent missile. Onboard navigation computers kick in near the target, guiding the missile to the target and eliminating errors that inevitably creep in during its turbulent journey.

The Shaurya, say DRDO sources, will strike within 20-30 metres of its target after travelling 750 kilometres.
“I would say the Shaurya a hybrid propulsion missile”, says Dr Saraswat. “Like a ballistic missile, it is powered by solid fuel. And, like a cruise missile, it can guide itself right up to the target.”
Making the Shaurya even more capable is its ability to manoeuvre, following a twisting path to the target that makes it very difficult to shoot it down. In contrast, a ballistic missile is predictable; its trajectory gives away its target and its path to it.
One thing is clear, irrespective of propulsion, India has been doing extensive research in hypersonic regimes, including flight control and terminal guidance.

Image
Very unique control surface arrangement
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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Philip wrote:Is there any idea of the approx.cost let's say of a 300 to 500km hyper-M? The US,etc. may have worked out some tentative figures. The inventory of such missiles if ultra-expensive would far
and few between,used only for the most important targets.
Can't get to cost because you have to have the systems in acquisition, establish production, supply chain and then create an acquisition program of record. Basically, a considerable amount of industrial/SC ramp up cost and then you get past the learning curve and then get to a stable recurring cost. That is a 3-phase process and most are in phase 1 at best. I'm sure skeptics will cry on cost because they don't understand how cost changes as you get stability in design, build for low(er)-cost, and incorporate the learning curve efficiencies. This will be similar to how the JSF, for example, used to cost $250 Million at LRIP-1 and now costs under $80 Million. Why? Because unlike anything in the past (at this scale) it required a new approach to production, new, higher tolerances in mfg, stealthy materials, and advanced digital electronics at scale. Same will be true for these weapons will have some deviations to prior weapons production.

Additive manufacturing can potentially allow you to accelerate and drive a lot of this cost out upfront because you don't have to invest in other forms of manufacturing for some, or all, of the components. As I mentioned earlier, Northtrop Grumman, the supplier of Raytheon's hypersonic missile's scramjet engine, claims to have built its engine exclusively via additive mfg. They are also going to be relatively less impacted by scale as long as the technological barriers are overcome. So if you go from tactical applications to larger systems with 3-4x the thrust for example, the cost shouldn't scale linearly. See below for example of such a system -

https://www.popularmechanics.com/milita ... mjet-test/

There is no doubt that there will be cost involved. The US is fast-tracking a conventional hypersonic triad. Realistically, even with advances in technology, the cost to field such a capability will be probably in the ballpark of what fielding a ballistic missile capability cost back in the day, or what fielding a triad of cruise missile capability cost. It isn't going to approach the cost of a nuclear triad, but it isn't going to be trivial either. It is still very much a national level commitment and not something that you just leave in the budget and its too small to get debated and noticed.

But all of that comes later. For now, these are S&T efforts where you need to go from EOT of 20 seconds, to 200 seconds, to 10s of minutes for larger systems. Getting into the high minutes of EOT is currently the holy grail of scramjet capability. This is important for the Indian taxpayer to fund because the Chinese are very rapidly advancing in this domain and may even be in the leadership position.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prasad »

A scramjet powered missile would be smaller for similar range? And hence be air delivered compared to the need for ground launch for a shaurya-sized missile.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prasad »

As to cost, until now some of the materials needed would've been produced only in lab scale. Enough for a tech demo or prototype. Mass manufacturing would bring in questions of yield (ceramics& composites needed aren't mass produced) and cost-reduction due to scale. Given we already can manufacture Ti/Al alloys atleast there won't be a need to import much of the missile hopefully.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by brar_w »

Prasad wrote:As to cost, until now some of the materials needed would've been produced only in lab scale. Enough for a tech demo or prototype. Mass manufacturing would bring in questions of yield (ceramics& composites needed aren't mass produced) and cost-reduction due to scale. Given we already can manufacture Ti/Al alloys atleast there won't be a need to import much of the missile hopefully.
There is also the designed-for-production approach which helps with cost that would come later. Consider, the X-43 and X-51 programs. Those were science and technology programs. They did what they were supposed to do but neither was "designed for production" or for a weapons application. They were designed to overcome specific technical barriers within the scramjet realm. Not enough money in the world to have turned them into weapons or mass produced systems. Fast-forward a decade plus later, the HAWC is a weapon proof of concept. So as you iterate and progress after initial successes, and retire technical risk your next iterations begin to reflect operational requirements and the manufacturability of the design. So things like utilizing mature production processes, addressing guidance, targeting, thrust for range/payload, cyber survivability etc etc etc..Now the focus is on mastering the propulsion technology and ensuring that growth in system design can be supported by enough knowledge that is gained from the early testing. You don't want to do all of this upfront on V1 of your effort because it gets really complicated and the scope creep can essentially prevent you from making the technical progress needed to master the core technologies.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by tsarkar »

Prasad wrote:A scramjet powered missile would be smaller for similar range? And hence be air delivered compared to the need for ground launch for a shaurya-sized missile.
Unlikely given the need to boost it to speeds required for the scramjet engine to function.

The BrahMos has a very heavy duty booster in the combustion chamber before the sustainer ramjet kicks in -
Image

Same for Akash that weighs a whopping 720 kg
Image
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by brar_w »

tsarkar wrote:
Prasad wrote:A scramjet powered missile would be smaller for similar range? And hence be air delivered compared to the need for ground launch for a shaurya-sized missile.
Unlikely given the need to boost it to speeds required for the scramjet engine to function.

The BrahMos has a very heavy duty booster in the combustion chamber before the sustainer ramjet kicks in -
Those are Ramjet designs. For 500 mile / 1,000 km ranged scramjet cruise missiles, 2-4 on a heavy strike figther isn't out of the realm of possibility.


Here's a presentation for more context -

https://www.slideshare.net/Musielak/hyp ... sielak2016
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by tsarkar »

I went through the datapoints. My point is not the weight of design R vs design S

It is the simple need to boost the mechanism to Mach 5 to make it start working.

That boost will have weight.

And to boost the mechanism to Mach 6 will need more weight than to boost the mechanism to Mach 3
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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tsarkar wrote:

And to boost the mechanism to Mach 6 will need more weight than to boost the mechanism to Mach 3
The amount of "booster" capacity needed is a direct function of how fast (and high) the vehicle needs to be going to successfully ignite and the properties of the vehicle itself. It is a direct function of the capability of the scramjet engine and its design parameters. So if you can optimize to ignite at lower Mach numbers ( IIRC the X-51 booster cut off prior to Mach 5 so the scramjet ignited at lower speeds than M6 - slightly more than Mach 4.5 at 60,000 ft altitude (from a 49K ft altitude for weapons release) you can save weight and volume. Same with the ability to launch at higher altitude. I suspect launch, ignite, and maneuver envelopes will be important differentiators in scramjet engine tech going forward, and a good point of comparison across different fuel sources, engine designs, and weapons concepts.

A better propulsion technology means a more optimized vehicle that is smaller, lighter, carries lesser fuel and is therefore more easy to "boost". And the higher speeds compared to ramjet means that it can go farther at same speed, or attack targets faster at the same range.

The X-51 scramjet vehicle, which was early 2000's tech, weighed about 550 kg empty with about 120 kg of fuel on top of that (120 kg of fuel bought them a max 4-5 minutes of scramjet run time). It also had a weight penalty associated with its design because it, being a test-bed, was forced to re-use many components from off-the-shelf programs and production lines so did not optimize for weight across the entire vehicle. More "current" scramjet engines are gunning for as much as 40% reduction in engine weight over what was delivered for prior scramjet engines so you can see weight savings being brought in to offset guidance and warhead penalties. The challenge is to keep the vehicle cool especially at longer run-times because it gets progressively harder when you start depleting your fuel. I suspect lessons learnt here will be vital in 5th and 6th gen fighter programs as well (and vice-versa).

So what should be a "Reach" target for launch weights for AL applications? The USAF had a very ambitious goal of 1,100 kg launch weight for an X-51 follow-on. This included an optimized, weapon specific booster (instead of just borrowing one from other programs like the X-51 did) and about 100-150 kg provisioned for a submunition or warhead. Let's say they exceed that by 50%. You are still in the sub 1,800 kg range for the AUR which is substantially lower than an AL Brahmos or even an AL HBGV is likely to be. Even if you exceed that, most fighters will have at least a couple of stores cleared for 2,200 kg weapons so yo just have to be within that. At least initially.

As I mentioned previously, weapons programs to this end are already in the works. It isn't a math or physics problem that hasn't been worked out already. At tactical ranges/targets you can pack quite a few number of these on tactical platforms. Now if you want to build very long range systems then you need alternatives like for example a different booster source i.e. get the vehicle to ignite at lower speeds and use a engine instead of a rocket booster. That's in the works too.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nachiket »

How will the seeker be incorporated into the thin, wide and flat nose of the hypersonic vehicle? All such vehicles, even from the US etc. follow roughly the same shape but it seems very difficult to my layman eyes to fit a RF seeker into it without a conventional nose-cone being available.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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nachiket wrote:How will the seeker be incorporated into the thin, wide and flat nose of the hypersonic vehicle? All such vehicles, even from the US etc. follow roughly the same shape but it seems very difficult to my layman eyes to fit a RF seeker into it without a conventional nose-cone being available.
You won’t be able to squeeze in a conventional seeker into either this or the next gen boost glide vehicles. Conformal arrays and IR sensors would need to be developed.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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brar_w wrote: As I mentioned previously, weapons programs to this end are already in the works. It isn't a math or physics problem that hasn't been worked out already. At tactical ranges/targets you can pack quite a few number of these on tactical platforms. Now if you want to build very long range systems then you need alternatives like for example a different booster source i.e. get the vehicle to ignite at lower speeds and use a engine instead of a rocket booster. That's in the works too.
Data is key to computational designs and DRDO would need many tests with different flight profiles to generate data for next-gen designs. Materials research will follow from that.
brar_w wrote:You won’t be able to squeeze in a conventional seeker into either this or the next gen boost glide vehicles. Conformal arrays and IR sensors would need to be developed.
Distribution of sensors along the skin with temperatures > 1000 degC will be a serious challenge. ISRO has some experience with flush sensors on it's reusable vehicle program. Seekers will be whole another level, esp. active seekers.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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JTull wrote:
brar_w wrote: As I mentioned previously, weapons programs to this end are already in the works. It isn't a math or physics problem that hasn't been worked out already. At tactical ranges/targets you can pack quite a few number of these on tactical platforms. Now if you want to build very long range systems then you need alternatives like for example a different booster source i.e. get the vehicle to ignite at lower speeds and use a engine instead of a rocket booster. That's in the works too.
Data is key to computational designs and DRDO would need many tests with different flight profiles to generate data for next-gen designs. Materials research will follow from that.
brar_w wrote:You won’t be able to squeeze in a conventional seeker into either this or the next gen boost glide vehicles. Conformal arrays and IR sensors would need to be developed.
Distribution of sensors along the skin with temperatures > 1000 degC will be a serious challenge. ISRO has some experience with flush sensors on it's reusable vehicle program. Seekers will be whole another level, esp. active seekers.
Well of course. The tech demonstrator is just the "walking" phase of a scramjet engine. The road from here to an actual weapon is going to take a fair bit of time, and require a lot of development and learnings along the way.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Kanson »

tsarkar wrote:
Prasad wrote:A scramjet powered missile would be smaller for similar range? And hence be air delivered compared to the need for ground launch for a shaurya-sized missile.
Unlikely given the need to boost it to speeds required for the scramjet engine to function.
Drdo is developing dual mode engine that operates as ramjet as well as scramjet.

Scramjet offers the benefit of same size factor of ramjet without altering much.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by kvraghav »

nachiket wrote:How will the seeker be incorporated into the thin, wide and flat nose of the hypersonic vehicle? All such vehicles, even from the US etc. follow roughly the same shape but it seems very difficult to my layman eyes to fit a RF seeker into it without a conventional nose-cone being available.
If we see the pictures of SFDR, we realise that these vehicle are like strap and the real seeker, warhead will be in on the actual central body. The meteor design is an example where ramjet is below the central body.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prasad »

The weight and propellant loadout comparison is with a conventional rocket motor to achieve the same range/payload capability. The reason space agencies want to go for air breathing stages and their reason to consider TBCC is because they will use atmospheric oxygen instead of carrying it with them on the rocket itself. If it was going to be the same weight as a rocket motor why would they even attempt it? That is also why you have turbojets powering 1000km cruise missiles instead of srm all the way. Isp might be lower but they're more efficient.
Image

Reduction of inlet start for supersonic combustion to lower mach numbers (3-4.5) is subject to study so that you can have a smaller booster and the ramjet can takeover earlier.
brar_w wrote: Now the focus is on mastering the propulsion technology and ensuring that growth in system design can be supported by enough knowledge that is gained from the early testing. You don't want to do all of this upfront on V1 of your effort because it gets really complicated and the scope creep can essentially prevent you from making the technical progress needed to master the core technologies.
Agreed. My point was about estimating cost at this stage when we've just done one test of the engine. Might have to wait until they start design of an actual missile prototype for cost estimation.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Rakesh »

Indranil wrote:STAR *cruise* missile entering wind tunnel testing at NAL.
This is almost the final version.

1. The very first version 2 intakes with a stout body. This was done around 2014-2015. This was done to study the air intakes and validate CFD models.
2. Then there was one with a longer body, but only 2 inlets. This was done to study the ramp design in the intake.
3. Similarly, the engine was first studied in twin inlet config and four inlet configs
4. Various fuels were also tested to get the best combustion, storage and density properties

I expect test launches within 2-3 years.
Kuntal Biswas quotes Indranil's tweet in link below.

https://twitter.com/Kuntal__biswas/stat ... 20065?s=20 --->LFRJ (Liquid Fueled Ramjet) based anti-ship missile

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Rakesh »

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Rakesh »

Video in link below....

https://twitter.com/Kuntal__biswas/stat ... 84736?s=20 ---> HSTDV (Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator Vehicle)
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Rakesh »

Russia, India to launch new Brahmos missile capable of downing aircraft with AWACS system by 2024
https://sputniknews.com/amp/military/20 ... m-by-2024/
14 Sept 2020
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Aditya_V »

Godspeed.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Barath »

https://www.asiavillenews.com/article/i ... icle-58850

HSTDV test account. Nicely done. Not too much new.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Thakur_B »

Barath wrote:https://www.asiavillenews.com/article/i ... icle-58850

HSTDV test account. Nicely done. Not too much new.
Nice to see TS Subramanian back. He used to report on Missile tests along with Y Mallikarjun for the Chindu donkey years back.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by pankajs »

cross post
---------------
Has this been posted before?

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 0996068352
AD-1 & AD-2 missiles from the Phase-2 of the Indian Ballistic Missile Defence program which is under development. Capability wise both are comparable to Aster-30 & SM-3 missiles respectively.

Slide is from this presentation: https://buff.ly/32Nk9kz

Image
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

Successful 2nd test flight of "Abhyas" - remember first flight in 2019

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetail.aspx?PRID=1657786

Ministry of Defence
Successful Flight Test of ABHYAS
Posted On: 22 SEP 2020 5:38PM by PIB Delhi
Successful flight test of ABHYAS - High-speed Expendable Aerial Target (HEAT) was today conducted by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) from the Interim Test Range, Balasore in Odisha. During the trials, two demonstrator vehicles were successfully test flown. The vehicle can be used as target for evaluation of various missile systems.

Abhyas is designed & developed by Aeronautical Development Est....
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Kakarat »

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 3779838977
The @DRDO_India successfully testfired its Laser-Guided Anti Tank Guided Missile (ATGM) yesterday, from the Main Battle Tank Arjun at the Armoured Corps Centre & School in Ahmednagar.
The ATGM neutralised a target at 03 kilometres.
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 6536739841
The DRDO ATGM employs a tandem HEAT warhead to neutralise Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) protected Armoured vehicles.
It has been developed with multiple-platform launch capability and currently undergoing technical evaluation trials from the MBT Arjun:
@DRDO_India
CLGM?
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Kakarat »

https://twitter.com/rajnathsingh/status ... 0095545345
Congratulations to @DRDO_India for successfully conducting test firing of Laser Guided Anti Tank Guided Missile from MBT Arjun at KK Ranges (ACC&S) in Ahmednagar.

India is proud of Team DRDO which is assiduously working towards reducing import dependency in the near future.
Image

Seems the test is from a Tank EX rather than a MBT Arjun
Correction the photo seems to be from a previous test from ITR Balasore as the present test is from Ahmednagar
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Pratyush »

pankajs wrote:cross post
---------------
Has this been posted before?

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 0996068352
Has phase 1 entered service?

Or by when it is expected to enter service.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Kakarat »

Laser Guided ATGM Successfully Test-fired
Laser Guided Anti Tank Guided Missile (ATGM) was successfully test fired from MBT Arjun Tank at KK Ranges, Armoured Corps Centre and School (ACC&S) Ahmednagar on 22nd Sep 2020. In these tests, the ATGM successfully defeated a target located at 3 km. Laser guided ATGMs lock and track the targets with the help of laser designation to ensure precision hit accuracy.

The missile employs a tandem HEAT warhead to defeat Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) protected armoured vehicles. It has been developed with multiple-platform launch capability and is currently undergoing technical evaluation trials from gun of MBT Arjun.

Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE) Pune in association with High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL) Pune, and Instruments Research & Development Establishment (IRDE) Dehradun have developed the missile.

Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh congratulated DRDO for the successfully test firing of the Laser Guided Anti Tank Guided Missile from MBT Arjun at KK Ranges.

Secretary DDR&D & Chairman DRDO congratulated DRDO personnel and industry on the successful test firing.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

pankajs wrote:cross post
---------------
Has this been posted before?

https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 0996068352
AD-1 & AD-2 missiles from the Phase-2 of the Indian Ballistic Missile Defence program which is under development. Capability wise both are comparable to Aster-30 & SM-3 missiles respectively.

Slide is from this presentation: https://buff.ly/32Nk9kz

Image
Its taken (with credit) from a ppt presented by a young DRDO Scientist H. IIRC, the full video was posted in the ABM or the R&D thread. Its a great ppt by the way, that talks about the various challenges to ABM including threats from hypersonics, Shaurya type BGRVs etc.

It had a slide that talked about what AD1 and AD2 are comparable against. He also had a slide comparing PDV and THAAD
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Great news! Maybe CLGM or CLGM 2.0. Hopefully will be inducted not just with Arjun but also with Rudra & LCH. Will be a cost-effective weapon for both ATGM and LOC-jihadi-hunting!

Can be our laser-guided Hellfire equivalent.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by kit »

Prem Kumar wrote:
Great news! Maybe CLGM or CLGM 2.0. Hopefully will be inducted not just with Arjun but also with Rudra & LCH. Will be a cost-effective weapon for both ATGM and LOC-jihadi-hunting!

Can be our laser-guided Hellfire equivalent.

looks like all the static targets in LAC and LOC are fair game !.. can this be used against helicopters and UAVs ? .. If the latter , things could get interesting !!
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

Potentially. Hellfires have been used in A2A mode. But all that's down the road. Important that this doesn't go into the infinite trial loop but actually gets inducted in numbers.

Our LCH/Rudras are without an ATGM.

If this is a truly multi-platform weapon, it can be used by the Infantry (man-portable), in R&S units (jeep mounted), LCH/Rudra, UAVs, Tanks etc.........options are endless, especially if its a cheap weapon
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by nash »

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Kakarat »

Prem Kumar wrote:
Great news! Maybe CLGM or CLGM 2.0. Hopefully will be inducted not just with Arjun but also with Rudra & LCH. Will be a cost-effective weapon for both ATGM and LOC-jihadi-hunting!

Can be our laser-guided Hellfire equivalent.
Hellfire is a ~50kg missile and CLGM is less than half that weight at ~19kg so they are not equivalent

But if DRDO comes up with a LAHAT type light 4 missile launcher it will be a wonderful addition to our high altitude deployment
Image
DRDO should make it multi platform capable like LAHAT
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by tsarkar »

Thakur_B wrote:
Barath wrote:https://www.asiavillenews.com/article/i ... icle-58850

HSTDV test account. Nicely done. Not too much new.
Nice to see TS Subramanian back. He used to report on Missile tests along with Y Mallikarjun for the Chindu donkey years back.
His articles, including this one, is the most comprehensive one on the subject. I was missing his reporting.
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by Prem Kumar »

I wonder if the Hellfire is heavier because of its longer range?

Hellfire & NAG also have a warhead weight double that of LAHAT. Will it have the same efficacy as a tank-killer with a smaller warhead?

For soft skinned vehicles, APC, ICV or jihadi-hunting, a 4 - 5 Kg warhead is more than enough. Plus we can carry more of it
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Post by ramana »

First lets congratualte the DRDO for the successful launch of the LATGM. Earlier it used to be called the CLGM. They DRDO has come up with the design taking into account threats and targets India faces. Its waste of bandwidth to compare to Hellfire and all that just because we can.
Its half the weight and range too.
An accurate shaped charge can defeat most targets.
And laseer guidance provides that.
The key is to get it made in qty and quickly deploy.
France tries out the Hammer guided bomb three times and each in different configuration and was accepted even by IAF!!!
So what different platforms can it be flown from: tanks, helicopters, jeeps, BMP, what else?
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