Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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abhik
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby abhik » 30 Jun 2019 22:19

^^^
Yup, and whatever price is quoted likely includes the Namika (which is an entire vehicle not just a tripod manportable launcher).

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Snehashis » 01 Jul 2019 00:13

abhik wrote:^^^
Yup, and whatever price is quoted likely includes the Namika (which is an entire vehicle not just a tripod manportable launcher).


25 NAMICAs included in the deal. So around 175 - 200 crore goes to NAMICAs if they are newly built ones. MoD upgrading old BMP-IIs for around 3.5 crores each. Don't have the figure for NAMICAs.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakkaji » 01 Jul 2019 06:33

News in Daily Jagran about India buying Russian anti-tank missile 'strum'? for Rs 200 crores, under emergency purchases, to be fitted on MI-35 helicopters.

Since it is emergency purchase, missiles to be supplied within 3 months.

https://www.jagran.com/politics/national-despite-the-us-pressure-india-signs-rs-200-crore-anti-tank-missile-deal-with-russia-19358589.html?src=p1

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Philip » 01 Jul 2019 12:11

How many ATGMs? Has the definitive ATGM for the LCH also been finalised? Nag delays have supposedly left it without an ATGM.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 01 Jul 2019 20:49

The Rs. 200 crore purchase is for ATGMs for the Mi35s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M120_Ataka

From news report it was delayed for over a decade.

India has been trying to acquire the Russian missiles for a long time but the deal has been signed under the emergency provisions after more than a decade.


Wonder why would that be?

For LCH Helina is completing development provide services don't ask for a missile to hit a tank hiding in a cave!
New dispensation is going to question unreasonable requirements on DRDO weapons only.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Pratyush » 02 Jul 2019 16:36

http://idrw.org/bel-will-start-deliveri ... le-to-iaf/

It seems that we have missed on the most important report of the day. The first lot of the Astra missiles are due to be dilivered shortly.

Looking forward to it being an order the competes with Akash in both numbers and value.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 02 Jul 2019 16:57

helinas problem or any drdo missiles problem is that we cannot make anything like the raytheon tri mode seeker which is in SDB2. LM has a dual mode seeker on the JAGM which will replace all hellfires. with the brochure smell test failing, this obviously calls for killing the local project and importing

as to how its done, in a single aperture seeker, https://patents.google.com/patent/US6606066B1/en

A single receiving aperture used, for example, in an airborne seeker system collects energy for three discrete energy sensors/receivers including a laser spot tracker, an RF (millimeter wave) transmitter/receiver, and an infrared detector. The RF transmitter/receiver is located at the focus of a primary reflector located on a gimbal assembly. A selectively coated dichroic element is located in the path of the millimeter wave energy which reflects infrared energy from the primary reflector to an optical system which re-images the infrared energy on the infrared detector. The outer edge or rim of the primary reflector is deformed so that the incoming laser energy focuses to a location beyond the RF transmitter/receiver. The laser sensor is positioned adjacent the RF transmitter/receiver at this location in a back-to-back orientation. The laser energy is then detected using a secondary reflector and an optical system which directs the laser energy from the secondary reflector to a laser detector.

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rohitvats » 02 Jul 2019 17:20

ramana wrote: For LCH Helina is completing development provide services don't ask for a missile to hit a tank hiding in a cave!
New dispensation is going to question unreasonable requirements on DRDO weapons only.


Its not only about the missile but the guidance system as well. If you want Mi-35 to fire HELINA (whenever that is ready), you'll need to modify its fire control system as well.

As of now, the system fires Shturm/9K114/AT-6 missile - this is a SACLOS guidance missile but with a radio command link. This means no wires connecting it back to the helicopter. This allows longer range and higher velocity - AT-6 is actually supersonic.

One more thing - the news report mentions Shturm Ataka - Ataka (9M120/AT-9) is next iteration of Shturm. It has longer range and still higher velocity. Comes in multiple variants.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Gyan » 02 Jul 2019 22:52

ramana wrote:New dispensation is going to question unreasonable requirements on DRDO weapons only.



Pls Explain?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby mody » 03 Jul 2019 15:54

Pratyush wrote:http://idrw.org/bel-will-start-deliveries-of-next-generation-astra-air-to-air-missile-to-iaf/

It seems that we have missed on the most important report of the day. The first lot of the Astra missiles are due to be dilivered shortly.

Looking forward to it being an order the competes with Akash in both numbers and value.


From the report given above, it says DRDO is also working on a IR guided version of ASTRA for a range of 10-40 Kms.
Many on BR have been advocating this development for a long time. Hopefully we will see a ASTRA-IR like the MICA-IR one day. Hope they can get to testing stage within 18 months.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 04 Jul 2019 09:11

very important because even our non-radar A2G fleet hawks, jaguars can use the IR missile, and so can helicopter gunships. MANPAD can be developed based on the seeker and sw.

we really need to cut the corner on huge nos of dal roti items like MPATGM, AAMs, PGMs and SAMs once and for all. next 10 years should be all about standing on 2 legs.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 05 Jul 2019 08:27

Guys, IDRW really?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby fanne » 05 Jul 2019 09:19

If I had the manpower, I would invest in ASTRA (ER), SFDR based AA (maybe this will take longer, hence can wait, but France is ready with a similar missile), dual to triple mode BVR and then on short and medium range IR missiles - there are dime a dozen around with almost no integration cost. The BVR is where we are lacking, with Mother Russia not having a good missile for export that will conclusively and reliably out range what the opponents have

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby AdityaM » 08 Jul 2019 14:24

Nag missile was tested 3 times a day back and not a single post here.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 08 Jul 2019 14:38

I hope they are inducted and mass manufactured soon. 3 Nag Missile Tests and 1 Bramhos missile tested with steep dive capability yesterday. This no longer significant for the folks on BRF nowadays?

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/vertical-steep-dive-version-of-brahmos-supersonic-cruise-missile-successfully-test-fired-5819678/

India has successfully test-fired a vertical deep dive version of the indigenous BrahMos supersonic missile. The upgraded version of the world’s fastest supersonic cruise missile with an enhanced range of up to 500 km is also ready, CEO of BrahMos Aerospace, Sudhir Kumar Mishra said.


“We can take on any ship at sea up to 300 to 400 km (far) and after some time, may be longer; we can take on land targets up to hundreds of km and with the test that we have conducted some time back (from Sukhoi 30), ranges up to thousands of km,” he said, according to a release by the state-run broadcaster.


Any idea what this means, aircraft took the missile for a long distance and missile covered a few hundred kilometers or missile traveled thousands of kilometers?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby jaysimha » 08 Jul 2019 15:19

Aditya_V wrote:3 Nag Missile Tests and 1 Bramhos missile tested with steep dive capability yesterday. This no longer significant for the folks on BRF nowadays?
yes. I am also feeling too much "politics" nowadays..

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 123285.cms

this tells " The Defence Acquisition Council has last year approved the procurement of DRDO's designed and developed NAG Missile System (NAMIS) at the cost of Rs 524 crore."

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 08 Jul 2019 15:50

Another quote from those articles

Government sources said the missile is in the final stages of being inducted into the Army which will use it by mounting them on the modified armoured vehicles.


I have feeling that unlike previously the GOI has now clamped down on being too public with respect to the status of Indian manufactured acquisitions.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Vips » 08 Jul 2019 18:07

According to news report more Nag tests are scheduled for today.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby abhik » 08 Jul 2019 18:18

Aditya_V wrote:Another quote from those articles

Government sources said the missile is in the final stages of being inducted into the Army which will use it by mounting them on the modified armoured vehicles.


I have feeling that unlike previously the GOI has now clamped down on being too public with respect to the status of Indian manufactured acquisitions.

Maybe because no news to share? Apart from the additional Akash and naval ALH which was signed 5 years ago, I am blanking on any other major deals signed.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 08 Jul 2019 18:23

There are a few like Pinaka orders, raising some more Brahmos regiments etc... Definitely not at BRF's pace but there has been an increase in local contracts, but previously A-5 missile tests etc was at full media bombast with Missile moving a few meters for launch pad etc with full media coverage. Now some of the plans etc media leaks have dialed down.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby SSridhar » 08 Jul 2019 20:44

Aditya_V wrote: . . 1 Bramhos missile tested with steep dive capability yesterday.

I am not sure if there was a BrahMos test yesterday. But, the steep-dive at near 90 deg is not new. Has been there for some time.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby fanne » 08 Jul 2019 23:00

naah, ICBM and prior version of Brahmos do not have these steep dive capability. These were new, only few years ago we had this capability. If you look which regiment got these Brahmos first, it will further tell the story of its use. This is no ordinary parabolic trajectory (ICBM, or even cruise missile like Brahmos, they have limited approach trajectory, they cannot just turn any which way and hit the target). Brahmos first capacity augmentation was (apart from being supersonic and sea hugging), it could to S maneuver and hit a ship. It was talked and publicized a lot. Then I guess 3-4 years ago, the announcement came, that Brahmos has further been augmented for steep dive profile (that can take out army depots on reverse slope etc.).
Similarly the artillery rounds are pure parabolic, some have limited guidance for minor correction (but they cannot fly and hit on the side of the building). This new one brings that capability.
The most natural formation for last may years for mountain warfare is to position supply line, c&c and artillery on the reverse slope of a mountain or a hill. The enemy cannot target it (except by planes), any ICBM (or any BM), artillery, rockets, to strike on the reverse it flight path is blocked by the mountain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_slope_defence

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby wig » 09 Jul 2019 09:54

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 99227.html

Ageing missile launchers in for extension-With over 25 squadrons, Pechora form backbone of defence network
study to be conducted to assess
Structural integrity of the launcher beams, electro-mechanical components, gear assemblies, cables and sub-systems and their residual life
Material weakness, cracks, state of welding and strength of joints and requirement of spares and other parts

and
The IAF has in place a plan to modernise and upgrade the Pechora systems with digital command and control systems and integrate the system’s radar into a network-centric environment, but according to sources, feasible life extension is a pre-requisite to this. “The present system is outdated and unless the physical life of the system can be extended by at least 10-15 years, it makes little sense to upgrade it,” an officer said.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rohitvats » 09 Jul 2019 15:10

This article in The Tribune, while on ASAT test and program, has some interesting details about the seeker-tech on NAG. Posting relevant parts:

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comment/decoding-the-anti-satellite-weapon-test/751313.html

Infrared seekers use what is called Focal Plane Array (FPA) of IR-sensitive sensors. And the choice material for IR sensors covering the entire spectrum — long-wavelength IR (LWIR) to short-wavelength IR (SWIR) — is the ternary compound, mercury-cadmium-telluride (MCT). Binary compounds such as indium-antimonide, which are sensitive only to IR signatures in the limited middle-wavelength (MWIR) range, are sometimes considered good enough, but the signatures from the thermal environment around a spacecraft would peak in LWIR.

India’s quest for technologies for FPA and pure MCT is over two decades old, and till date the country does not have these technologies. This was stated by Saraswat himself in a lecture addressing a Pugwash gathering on February 3, 2017, at the Institute for Defence Studies and Analysis (IDSA).

"As far as IR seekers is [sic] concerned,” he said, “the FPA [technology] which was denied to us [due to MTCR] is now not denied… We are not producing FPAs in the country… we are buying those FPAs and the rest of the optics and everything is being done in the country. That is why the possibility of NAG IIR seeker being manufactured in the country [exists] today. But we still have to go a long way... we need many more seekers, we need… LWIR and MWIR [seekers]...”


“The fact remains that, even today,” he said answering a question from the audience, “the capability to make FPAs for thermal imaging and also for IR seekers… despite a lot of attempts by our country [is not there]… Like most of the cases when the country wants to venture into very highly complex technologies, you need to invest a huge amount… We had spent not even 10 per cent and as a result MCT, which is the basic element needed for making the FPA, could not be developed… [w]hen in 1995-96 there was a proposal after there was a little relaxation of MTCR (Missile Technology Control Regime), Sofradir of France was ready to give the FPA technology… Rs 95 crore at that time, the government was not willing to spend... Today it may be Rs 1,000 crore… In 2006, when I was chief controller [of R&D], we realised that with the kind of infrastructure and knowledge that we had even within the DRDO and academic institutions and others, we do not make MCT of that purity which is needed as the raw material for this… not even a gram of that material is available to us.” This runs counter to the ‘DRDO’s capability’in 2012 itself that Saraswat claimed in his interview.


<SNIP>

Then it was suggested that Sofradir or Israeli companies, such as Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) and SemiConductor Devices (SCD), might supply the technology, a move to first acquire it before a full-fledged ASAT programme, with emphasis on collaborative development under the ambit of the Indo-Israel Management Council (I2MC), was mooted.

Then DRDO chief M Natarajan had also got a sanction for about Rs 1,700 crore for that. Apparently, Sofradir, while willing to sell, was not even prepared to give FPA units for testing, let alone sharing the technology. But nothing tangible seems to have resulted in terms of technology acquisition from Israel or France, especially on the MCT front, since then, either during Saraswat’s tenure or during those of his successors till February 2017 at least.

According to DRDO sources, apparently towards the end of Saraswat’s immediate successor Avinash Chander’s term in 2015, a move was made to acquire a 1kx1k FPA, not of MCT but indium-antominide sensors, from SCD. And this was pursued by Chander’s successor Satheesh Reddy as well, but the idea was apparently finally dropped.

Around the same time, off-the-shelf entire MCT-based seekers with 320x256 array — not FPAs alone that you integrate domestically with other elements — were apparently bought from Sofradir for Helina, the helicopter-version of the anti-tank missile NAG (similar units have been purchased by ISRO also for its hyperspectral imagers).

These events beg the question: How could a full-fledged ASAT project proposal have been made to then UPA government in 2012 for it to decline sanction when the DRDO did not have the technology for IR seekers?


Any information or comments elaborating on the status of this technology would be welcome.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prasad » 09 Jul 2019 16:04

It'll come in time. When we manage to produce high purity raw materials (sensors need really high purity).

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Rishi_Tri » 10 Jul 2019 00:13

Aditya_V wrote:I hope they are inducted and mass manufactured soon. 3 Nag Missile Tests and 1 Bramhos missile tested with steep dive capability yesterday. This no longer significant for the folks on BRF nowadays?

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/vertical-steep-dive-version-of-brahmos-supersonic-cruise-missile-successfully-test-fired-5819678/

“We can take on any ship at sea up to 300 to 400 km (far) and after some time, may be longer; we can take on land targets up to hundreds of km and with the test that we have conducted some time back (from Sukhoi 30), ranges up to thousands of km,” he said, according to a release by the state-run broadcaster.


Any idea what this means, aircraft took the missile for a long distance and missile covered a few hundred kilometers or missile traveled thousands of kilometers?


I too read the original news multiple times to try to understand what was being implied. Most likely "aircraft took the missile for a long distance and missile covered a few hundred kilometers". So all in all

Function (Total Range (1000s of Kms) ) = Sukhoi Range + Brahmos Range (500 kms?) .. We could try to create Total Range plot with underlying parameters of Sukhoi take off weight, fuel, Brahmos launch height, etc.. Should give good estimate of what this total range shall look like. :)

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby sudeepj » 11 Jul 2019 00:41

Indranil wrote:Why those two? For accuracy we have to evaluate the cost of their delivery mechanisms too.

Personally, I don't see the need for the Excalibur. We have rockets with pinpoint accuracy and higher range now. I don't know the exact costs, But I can't see how they will be very dissimilar.


Number of 155 tubes: 700+ and increasing.
Number of rocket launchers: ~ 120?? (and increasing at a slower rate)

Rocket artillery is probably held as a corps level weapon, while medium regiments are available at div/brigade level. Its also (incorrectly, IMHO) seen as an escalation. If India shoots a pinaka rocket into Pak, given the kind of cretins we are dealing with here, they are going to react with a scatter shot mbrl launch at us. Given we are trying to punish them, dominate the escalation ladder, while also keeping chances of a full blown conflict low, ex-caliber/PGK make more sense than an MBRL in the kind of situation we have at the LoC.

We can do long range, precision fire assaults at a moments notice deep into Pak. Real time intelligence can be provided by hum-int, drones or satellites. "Good Enough" maps are provided by Google. There will be no need to send large SF contingents to conduct small arms assaults. No need to risk 350 million dollar airplanes even..

Pak Mil is going to react by moving the camps and the hqs farther back.. But at least, regular PakMil is going to be super vulnerable to precision arty strikes now. Nowhere to hide for Pakis.. and no "easy" way to retaliate effectively.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakkaji » 11 Jul 2019 19:48

Both Economic Times and Jagran reporting that the army has placed an order for Spike ATGMs from Israel under emergency procurement.

Economic Times also reporting that Rafael of Israel has placed $100m order on Kalyani for skins of Barak MRSAMs to be supplied to Indian armed forces

Can’t post links right now from work

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 11 Jul 2019 21:09

Let's discuss in Artillery thread.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nachiket » 11 Jul 2019 23:26

Moved all the Excalibur and Artillery related posts to the Artillery thread as per Ramana ji's request.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 12 Jul 2019 00:17

Thanks a lot.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby SSridhar » 14 Jul 2019 08:13

Bharat Dynamics in expansion mode: CMD - Business Line
Vishakapatnam: Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL) is embarking on expansion by setting up new facilities besides increasing capacity of the existing unit in Visakhapatnam, according to Commodore Siddharth Mishra (Retd.), the Chairman and Managing Director.

He was here to participate in a programme organised at the Indo German Institute of Advanced Training (IGIAT) on Friday.

Our local unit is getting a number of orders from the Indian Navy apart from bagging orders from friendly nations for manufacture of torpedoes and underwater weapons. We have plans to expand the unit here,” he said.

The main unit of BDL at Kanchanbagh in Hyderabad manufactures surface-to-air missiles and the second unit at Bhanur in Medak district produces anti-tank guided missiles. These two are located in Telangana and third big facility is being set up at Ibrahimpatnam, also in Telangana. "This facility will also manufacture surface-to-air missiles but of the latest upgraded version,” he added.

The Visakhapatnam unit manufactures underwater weapons and torpedoes. Varunasthra is being made in made in Visakhapatnam and we plan to complete it in two years time. Our fifth unit will come up at Amravati in Maharashtra for production of very short range missiles,” Commodore Mishra said.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Rakesh » 16 Jul 2019 00:49

Kalyani Rafael secures $100-mn order for Barak-8 missile kits
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/co ... 373732.ece

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby MeshaVishwas » 16 Jul 2019 10:51

Why the IAF wants the S-400 missile-Sandeep Unnithan

In a massive blue-roofed test facility outside St Petersburg, grim-faced lab coat-wearing technicians swing open 20-foot tall metal doors. Thick white clouds spread out. The long, green silhouette of an 8x8 truck lumbers out, bellowing furiously, its headlights shining through the fog, four giant missile canisters stacked horizontally on the chassis like large logs of wood. This scene from the test facility of Russian missile maker Almaz-Antey's plant could be straight out of a Jurassic Park or Transformers movie franchise.

The 8x8 Transporter Erector Launcher (TEL), which launches Russia's most controversial arms export in recent years-the System-400 (S-400) long-range air-defence missile-is being stress-tested in temperatures that are 50 and 70 degrees Celsius below zero. Last October, India signed a $5 billion (Rs 35,000 crore) deal with Russia to buy five systems of this missile that NATO calls the SA-21 'Growler'. The deal was concluded against strong objections from the US. Washington has objected to India buying the missile partly because it has applied sanctions on Russian arms firms, but it's mainly because of the formidable capabilities of the S-400 missile. The missile, the US fears, will jeopardise future arms sales of high-performance aircraft, such as the F-35, to India.

The S-400 system is highly mobile-all radars, missiles and launchers are mounted on 8x8 cross-country trucks, which makes them harder to detect and destroy. The entire system can be made ready to fire in a matter of minutes. The S-400's crown jewel is its 30N6E2 electronically-steered phased array radar, dubbed 'Tombstone', that can track 300 targets over 600 kilometres away and, based on the threat and range, shoot four different missile types at them. Each S-400 system has four types of missiles from the 400-km range, 200-km range, 100-km and 40-km range, forming a nearly impenetrable interlocking grid of missiles. It can detect and destroy targets flying as low as 100 feet to as high as 40,000 feet.

These missiles can address multiple aerial threats, from combat jets to cruise missiles and air-launched smart bombs, and are resistant to electronic jamming.


The Indian Air Force (IAF), which has closely studied the S-400 system for the past five years, was impressed by these capabilities. The IAF's air defence missiles can currently only engage targets 40 kilometres away. The Medium-Range Surface-to-Air Missile or MRSAM to be acquired from Israel next year will increase its engagement range to nearly 80 kilometres.

"Deploying one S-400 system allows you to cover an entire spectrum of aerial threats," says a senior IAF official. The missile system offers such a quantum jump in its capabilities that, the official says, the IAF advised the government to purchase it even at the risk of incurring US wrath. India also rejected US counter-offers of the Patriot Advanced Capability-3 (PAC-3) and Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) to stop the sale.

The deal was directly concluded between the Indian and Russian governments in just two years, considerably shorter than the Indian defence ministry's circuitous negotiations and acquisition cycle. Interestingly, transfer of technology and defence offsets, usually insisted on by the defence ministry for large volume deals, were waived. A new payment route for India to pay for the purchase, bypassing US banking networks, was recently formalised.

The IAF sees in the S-400 an answer to many of its existential woes-a dwindling fighter jet fleet and the increasing sophistication of enemy fighter aircraft. The force has only 32 fighter squadrons as opposed to a sanctioned 39.5. This is seen as inadequate for its primary tasks of securing Indian airspace from intruding enemy aircraft and conducting aerial warfare by bombing enemy targets. This crisis is likely to be exacerbated by 2027 when over 100 MiG-series fighter jets are phased out, leaving the IAF with just 19 fighter squadrons. The only acquisition by then would be two squadrons of 36 Rafale fighter jets-to be delivered by 2021. The IAF's potential adversaries, China and Pakistan, have inducted cutting-edge fighter jets like Block 52 F-16s and, in the case of the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), the fifth-generation J-20 fighter. In case of war, the IAF would be hard-pressed to deploy its fighter jets in defensive and offensive roles.

This imbalance changes with the acquisition of the S-400. The missile system can undertake a bulk of the airspace defence role. From their locations in India, the S-400's radars can look deep inside Pakistani territory and pick up enemy aircraft almost as soon as they are airborne. Deployed along the eastern border with China, the missile system can monitor fighter jets taking off from airfields along the Tibetan plateau. "In case of hostilities, the S-400s will free up our multi-role fighters for other tasks like air-to-ground bombing missions, instead of tying them up in the air superiority role of shooting down enemy fighters," says a senior IAF official.

Russian officials confirmed that deliveries of all five systems will be completed by 2024 at the rate of one system a year, beginning 2020. The first S-400 mobile launcher could even be rolling down Rajpath as early as January 26, 2021. An air defence silver bullet if there was ever one.

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/india-tod ... 2019-07-16

Karan M
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 16 Jul 2019 11:12

Yeah, ask these guys how many of these systems were stress tested in the conditions we face in the plains, in the Thar etc.
Anyhow, some addition to our capabilities. Best not crib.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karthik S » 16 Jul 2019 11:43

Gurus, I know right now MIRV may be top priority. Any chance govt will consider funding full fledged ICBM this term along with SLBM for our Arihant class? Or will that rile up many people in western hemisphere?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rohitvats » 16 Jul 2019 16:07

To understand what capability S-400 adds to IAF and air defense scenario, please re-read the interview of Air Chief linked somewhere on the forum.

The keyword is - Layered Air Defense.

IAF is going from Point Air Defense to Layered Air Defense.

Earlier, the best missile based AD that IAF had were SA-3 Missile Squadrons. With a range of about 25 km, these were point AD weapons. And since we did not have sufficient density of these missiles squadrons, we deployed them to cover only specific points. The approach to these Vulnerable Areas and Vulnerable Points (VA/VP) were left unguarded with the plan that IAF fighters will take care of intruders.

Look at the situation now.

(1) First comes the MR-SAM with 70 - 100 Km range. This will form the outer AD bubble and cover a large geography. Conservatively speaking, a distributed regiment of MR_SAM with three batteries could easily cover a front of 150 km. With each battery providing AD bubble over 20,000+ square kilometers.

(2) AKASH-1/1S/NG - This will provide second layer of AD with 25-50 km range (depending on the variant). Again, a distributed battery can cover a large areas around a VA/VP.

(3) SPYDER/QR SAM equivalent for IAF + L-70/New Gun based AD Solution + MANPADS - This will provide the terminal defense to the VA/VP

And into all this will enter S-400.

I'm not too sure about its deployment pattern. I believe we're again going to see distributed deployment which will provide AD cover in depth. And the beauty of the system is that it comes with multiple kind of missiles. So, a single system will give layered AD coverage.

My preliminary assessment is that 120 km range missiles will form the inner AD bubble, followed by NASSAM. And longer range missile will form the bubble in 200-250 km radius, providing the max outer umbrella to various areas.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srai » 16 Jul 2019 16:46

...
The force has only 32 fighter squadrons as opposed to a sanctioned 39.5. This is seen as inadequate for its primary tasks of securing Indian airspace from intruding enemy aircraft and conducting aerial warfare by bombing enemy targets. This crisis is likely to be exacerbated by 2027 when over 100 MiG-series fighter jets are phased out, leaving the IAF with just 19 fighter squadrons. The only acquisition by then would be two squadrons of 36 Rafale fighter jets-to be delivered by 2021.
...

These reporters can’t seem to add for whatever reasons :evil:

Su-30MKI alone will have 13-14 squadrons. Add 2 squadrons of Rafales and 2 of Tejas Mk.1; that already totals to 17-18 squadrons. Not to forget 3-4 MiG-29, 2-3 Mirage-2000, and 5-6 Jaguar squadrons. That takes the total to 27 to 31 squadrons at the lowest point.

Plus, add 4 Tejas Mk1A.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 16 Jul 2019 17:11

rohitvats wrote:
IAF is going from Point Air Defense to Layered Air Defense.

Earlier, the best missile based AD that IAF had were SA-3 Missile Squadrons. With a range of about 25 km, these were point AD weapons. And since we did not have sufficient density of these missiles squadrons, we deployed them to cover only specific points. The approach to these Vulnerable Areas and Vulnerable Points (VA/VP) were left unguarded with the plan that IAF fighters will take care of intruders.

Look at the situation now.


what chances do you see that PAF too will become the first terrorist air force to resort to civilian attacks on areas that are not protected..like the dwarka raid of cow killing

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 16 Jul 2019 17:37

Our BMD (PDV & AAD) should take the path of S400/S500.

Need to get MRSAM/ XRSAM, a version of QRSAM and PDV/AAD under all integrated Swordfish and mobile search & tracking AESA radars.

All should be one single package, to form the layered defense.

By the way we are spending close to 10 billion on SAM. Despite people crying over falling sqd numbers, the SAM investment is tremendous.


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