Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2020 19:49

tsarkar wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:
Nice to see TS Subramanian back. He used to report on Missile tests along with Y Mallikarjun for the Chindu donkey years back.

His articles, including this one, is the most comprehensive one on the subject. I was missing his reporting.


tsarkar a key thing being missed is the HSDTV is a military scramjet hypersonic weapon test. Most others have achieved a maneuvering glide body powered by a rocket to reentry trajectory. IOW its hypersonic guided descent.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JTull » 23 Sep 2020 19:52

ramana wrote:So what different platforms can it be flown from: tanks, helicopters, jeeps, BMP, what else?


A tripod in a bunker on LOC!

UCAV!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2020 19:55

Lets identify available platform. UCAV means more endless trials.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby brar_w » 23 Sep 2020 19:58

Prem Kumar wrote:


Great news! Maybe CLGM or CLGM 2.0. Hopefully will be inducted not just with Arjun but also with Rudra & LCH. Will be a cost-effective weapon for both ATGM and LOC-jihadi-hunting!

Can be our laser-guided Hellfire equivalent.


More like a AGM-176 equivalent though not sure whether the -176 has a armor defeat mission/requirement and warhead optimized variant [yet]. With the size, weight and other characteristics (of CLGM) the platform possibilities, over time, are endless.

Image

ramana wrote:Most others have achieved a maneuvering glide body powered by a rocket to reentry trajectory.


Not really. Russia and the US has had plenty of scramjet engine testing and demonstrations across the envelope and mach numbers. Going back years and in some cases decades. Foundational research and many scramjet test (known) records are held by these systems. China likewise, has, supposedly, made good progress there as well. The X-43 and the X-51 did a lot of the advanced flight demonstrations, and proved, and disproved, many ground testing assumptions. X-51 was first to cross the 200-second scramjet burn time milestone in actual flight testing about a decade ago. Only difference, it used a two-stage set up to get it to that 80,000 ft altitude (first stage - 0.8 M launch at 49K ft (B-52), second stage - Rocket motor to get from 50K feet up to the engine-ignite altitude of between 65,000 ft. and 80,000 ft).

Full up scramjet powered weapon systems are now in flight testing in Russia (Tsirkon) and the US (HAWC) and are expected to be fielded on a 2-4 year horizon. Affordable component manufacturing (at scale) and meeting full weapons envelope is still a hard challenge to solve. Boost Glide weapons (particularly if you can get the more exotic shapes that allow for prolonged glide) are atractive beyond a certain mission range because they have a much faster speed, and thus time to target, compared to what's possible with current scramjet technology levels. There you are looking at average weapon speeds of between Mach 11 and Mach 14 and peaks closer to Mach 20. Still slower than a ballistic missile but you are getting better than 50% non-ballistic flight so you don't alert BMD EW and make easy/early PIP calculation extremely hard. But, relative to scramjet powered systems, they are larger, heavier and harder to integrate on platforms because you are buying all that speed upfront, vs generating it along the way as with a scramjet (that accelerates).
Last edited by brar_w on 23 Sep 2020 20:55, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 23 Sep 2020 20:31

Was reading about LAHAT and from videos its a 105mm dia missile and weights 13kg uses sleeves in 120mm gun, in comparison CLGM is 120mm and 18+Kg so could have a better warhead

Could this Seeker lead to the development of a guided artillery shell? some thing like a M712 Copperhead but more of a guided shell

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 23 Sep 2020 22:11

rant mode on..ab to order de do arjun ke ..


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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby pushkar.bhat » 23 Sep 2020 22:57

/*Self Deleted since it was a duplicate post*/

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 24 Sep 2020 02:54

Thanks, Brar_W.
You look like you work in the field.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 24 Sep 2020 13:27



Hmm is this related to the tension with Chinese, these could be useful in taking some high value targets.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Rakesh » 24 Sep 2020 18:40

India's development of the hypersonic speed vehicle
https://www.asiavillenews.com/article/i ... icle-58850
17 Sept 2020

By T. S. Subramanian

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 24 Sep 2020 21:13

^^^
Thanks for posting the T.S.Subramanian articles. Really good and detailed, but also understandable for the non-technical layman. And the HSTDV write up led to links to other excellent articles by him.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Nalla Baalu » 24 Sep 2020 23:43

During BMD Phase-1 development days, an out of turn Prithvi test was a precursor to Interceptor test, essentially to assess readiness of rest of the elements and achieve an 'electronic intercept'.

Aditya_V wrote:


Hmm is this related to the tension with Chinese, these could be useful in taking some high value targets.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 26 Sep 2020 03:53



Okay. What are we looking at?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Vivek K » 26 Sep 2020 05:39

How about you tell us Indranil? No clue. MANPAD?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Nalla Baalu » 26 Sep 2020 05:42

Assuming the commentary of the person recording is correct, shoulder fired SAM against a low flying receding target?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby darshan » 26 Sep 2020 06:36

Comments implied more like a missile guided by device in hand. Not sure if it was datalinked just for the test purpose or not.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srin » 26 Sep 2020 08:18

Smokeless - looks like surface launched Astra.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Thakur_B » 26 Sep 2020 09:23

Indranil wrote:

Okay. What are we looking at?


Does not seem to be a Manpad. That initial burn will definitely leave the person with shoulder launcher without epidermis for the rest of his life. Looks like a target drone launch.

If there was a manpad (the person kept referring to someone with something on shoulder) the person shooting the video did not capture it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 26 Sep 2020 09:31

Vivek K wrote:How about you tell us Indranil? No clue. MANPAD?

I do not know. Both the target and the interceptor have me perplexed.
My observations:
I want to believe the guy who is providing the commentary. He knows what he is talking about. This is at Chandipur, so this is a DRDO test. This is the test of a SAM based on the acceleration of the missile. And finally the people are sitting and standing right next to the target and the interceptor. So there is fair bit of confidence in both systems.

Confusion:
1. The target is most probably a missile which ejects a flare at the end of its flight. But, i don't know any missile in India's inventory which has that launcher and flight profile. Target drones can't climb like that! Looks like a modified rocket.
2. DRDO does have a program called MPDMS which is ashoulder mounted SAM. I know that it is mature enough where they issued tenders for manufacturing test prototypes couple of months back. But this video is shot in March/April. And as I said, this is not its first firing. If this is MPDMS, then its maturity is significantly more than publicly known.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 26 Sep 2020 09:36

Thakur_B wrote:
Indranil wrote:

Okay. What are we looking at?


Does not seem to be a Manpad. That initial burn will definitely leave the person with shoulder launcher without epidermis for the rest of his life. Looks like a target drone launch.

If there was a manpad (the person kept referring to someone with something on shoulder) the person shooting the video did not capture it.

thakur ji,

You can see the three men standing in the first half of the video. To the left of the video frame, just to the right of the shrub.

Also listen very carefully to the noise of the second launch. You will hear two rockets firing in succession. One for the ejection and one for the flight motor.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Zynda » 26 Sep 2020 10:56

^^Probably it was Abhyas...supersonic target drone. It was tested @ ITR earlier this week and had a couple of successful flights. Abhyas is powered by a booster followed by turbojet engine. But I am not sure if it can take off that quickly...

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 26 Sep 2020 11:28

Abhyas is not supersonic. It's top speed is about 0.5M. Mag be extendable to 0.7M in future.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kanson » 26 Sep 2020 11:57

Akash or some solid rocket.
Speed more like mach 4.
Akash more likely.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 26 Sep 2020 12:48

Nope. Akash launcher is quite distinctive. And akash missile is huge. This target is roughly 1.5 mtrs long.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Raghunathgb » 26 Sep 2020 12:58

It's definitely a test of MPDMS against banshee target drone.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby nam » 26 Sep 2020 15:01

Two sound when the missile is launched. So it is either a manpad or MPATGM in Air mode.

Or all we know it is IA training with a Igla round.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby arvin » 26 Sep 2020 22:01

Second missile is launched within 2-3 seconds of the first and gains altitude quickly. Feel it is vertically launched. The first rocket is too quick a target for MANPAD and accelerating after launch. Doubt a lock will be available so fast for a MANPAD.
This I feel is SRSAM land variant. MoD negative list has item no 5 as Short Range Surface to Air Missiles (Land variant) with import cut off date of Dec 2020.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby tsarkar » 27 Sep 2020 15:43

Indranil wrote:Okay. What are we looking at?

Some tourists watching IAF or IA’s missile practice in the East Coast. The tourists are probably visiting relatives of personnel posted at the base, hence able to take the unauthorised video from the base common area.

The truck mounted launcher fires a target. The IAF SAGW or IA ADA personnel fire an Igla at it.

Deliberately not identifying the exact location

The truck mounted launcher and target is the same type as used in Vayu Shakti 2019. The Banshee target on truck is at 6:43 in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAuSjxaOvL8

But its Igla and not Akash. And I didnt see the flash or hear the sound of explosion. Possibly the video cut out before that happened.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby arvin » 27 Sep 2020 19:26

tsarkar wrote:
But its Igla and not Akash. And I didnt see the flash or hear the sound of explosion. Possibly the video cut out before that happened.


Towards the end, the person says it missed by a mile.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 27 Sep 2020 22:34

Tsarkar ji

It is most probably the test firing of an Igla. But, the target is definitely not banshee. Banshee's launch is not rocket assisted. Neither can it achieve altitude that quickly.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby tsarkar » 27 Sep 2020 23:48

Indranil wrote:Tsarkar ji It is most probably the test firing of an Igla. But, the target is definitely not banshee. Banshee's launch is not rocket assisted. Neither can it achieve altitude that quickly.

You are right. I wrote “same type as” to indicate a truck launched target and not specifically Banshee.

The video is taken too far away to properly identify the target used.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby tsarkar » 28 Sep 2020 03:56

Going through the Vayushakti 2019 photos gave me an Aha moment.

All bombs dropped were 225 and 450 kg HSLD bombs

Su-30MKI -
Image

Mirage 2000 -
Image

Tejas -
Image
Image

Jaguar
Image

Even the old MiG-21bis is equipped with them
Image

The standardization on Indian made bombs across the entire force is a very welcome step towards indigenization.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 28 Sep 2020 17:11

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 8207316993
The Defence Acquisition Council cleared an unspecified number of DRDO-developed Smart Anti Airfield Weapons (SAAW) for the IAF and Navy today. Total value is roughly INR 970 crore. Long range low cost precision strike, finally!


Image

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1310534250135838726
JUST IN: Indian MoD clears first orders for the @DRDO_India Smart Anti-Airfield Weapon (SAAW) for the Indian Air Force & Indian Navy

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby tsarkar » 28 Sep 2020 17:16

Who will manufacture it?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby tsarkar » 28 Sep 2020 17:21

https://pib.gov.in/PressReleseDetail.aspx?PRID=1645092

Under the Buy Indian (IDDM) category, the DAC approved ... Smart Anti Airfield Weapon (SAAW). .... The Smart Anti Airfield Weapon being procured at an approx. cost of Rs. 970 crore will add to the fire power of Navy and Airforce.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 28 Sep 2020 18:20

tsarkar wrote:Who will manufacture it?


BDL I think
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 28 Sep 2020 18:30

India deploys long-range missile Nirbhay to counter Chinese threat at LAC

The Nirbhay missile has been developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). The missile has been in the testing for seven years. This is Nirbhay missile's first deployment.

According to sources, the new missiles have been deployed in a limited number for now. The missile is likely to get full op clearance later.

The all-weather surface-to-surface missile has a range that can go up to 1,000 km, which mean it is capable of striking targets in Tibet.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prem Kumar » 28 Sep 2020 18:54

Truly a lungi-dance moment!!!

First SAAW & now Nirbhay. Who would've thunk?

I hope there is a Chinese aggression every year - will do wonders for our MIC

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Sep 2020 20:26

Kakarat wrote:India deploys long-range missile Nirbhay to counter Chinese threat at LAC

The Nirbhay missile has been developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). The missile has been in the testing for seven years. This is Nirbhay missile's first deployment.

According to sources, the new missiles have been deployed in a limited number for now. The missile is likely to get full op clearance later.

The all-weather surface-to-surface missile has a range that can go up to 1,000 km, which mean it is capable of striking targets in Tibet.

Wow. This is really good news!


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