Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

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JTull
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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JTull » 21 Apr 2019 18:25

Then most likely it's a mix of both

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 21 Apr 2019 18:26

Looks like I was right. Its Spike MR.

https://www.janes.com/article/87928/ind ... e-mr-atgws

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 21 Apr 2019 18:31

These 240 missiles may save us much more money in the long run. Especially if IA realizes their actual operational worth and does not do a T90.

Note Spike had the same issue as Nag, before its seeker change, inability to distinguish target when ambient temperatures are not different from target temp by a large
margin.

https://southfront.org/field-experience ... gm-system/

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kanson » 21 Apr 2019 19:30

Only from rahul bedi/janes. Others who reported are quoting janes.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby fanne » 21 Apr 2019 19:32

And for all you know they may have insider source from Bharat-Rakshak. Circular logic

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby jaysimha » 22 Apr 2019 11:30

Image
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=189759
Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
15-April-2019 16:16 IST
Successful Trial of 'Nirbhay' Sub-Sonic Cruise Missile

Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) today successfully test fired indigenously designed & developed Long Range Sub-Sonic Cruise Missile “Nirbhay” from the Integrated Test Range (ITR), Chandipur Odisha.

It is the sixth development flight trial with objective to prove the repeatability of boost phase, cruise phase using way point navigation at very low altitudes. The missile took off vertically turning horizontally into desired direction, booster separated, wing deployed, engine started, cruised all the intended waypoints. The missile demonstrated its sea-skimming capability to cruise at very low altitudes.

The entire flight was fully tracked by a chain of Electro Optical Tracking Systems, Radars and Ground Telemetry Systems deployed all along the sea coast.

All the mission objectives were met.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby jaysimha » 22 Apr 2019 18:08

http://www.nitandhra.ac.in/main/

NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY ANDHRA PRADESH
Institute Annual Day Invitation on 26th April 2019 (Friday) at 04.00PM Venue: SVEC Campus
Chief Guest
Dr. S. K. Mishra
Distinguished Scientist and Director General (BrahMos), DRDO,
Ministry of Defence and CEO & MD, BrahMos Aerospace
http://www.nitandhra.ac.in/main/Announc ... 0final.pdf

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby SandeepR » 23 Apr 2019 12:55

Rakesh wrote:
GautamK wrote:Gurus,
Does Brahmos/Nirbhay has explosives like BCES, Incidiary, etc (Similar to Prithvis) or designed in special new way for better penetration:?:

I have changed your username from SaintSoldier to GautamK.

If you do not like it, please choose one and I will make the change again.


Rakesh,
I had sent an email for change. Please check.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karthik S » 23 Apr 2019 14:26

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/first-eve ... ested-soon

First Ever Made In India Turbofan Engines For Cruise Missiles To Be Flight Tested By DRDO Soon

First Ever Made In India Turbofan Engines For Cruise Missiles To Be Flight Tested By DRDO Soon
Subsonic Turbo Fan Engine During Testing (Source:DRDO Website)
The flight tests of India’s first 400 kg thrust class Small Turbofan Engine (STFE) as a power plant for unmanned air vehicles (UAVs) targeted for subsonic applications are likely to begin soon, reports Sputnik News.

According to the report, the state-funded Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) has realised six prototype engines with 95 per cent indigenous components.

The GTRE has tested the prototype engines at Bengaluru as well as at Leh, as per the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO).

"The GTRE tested the engine for max power setting at Bengaluru for 90 minutes continuous operation. During peak winter, the engine was tested at Leh at (-15 degree Celsius)", a statement from DRDO read.


As per the report, DRDO, in March 2018, had invited expression of interests from Indian industries to work under technology transfer terms for manufacturing and assembly of the engine.

"Further efforts are on to flight test the engine and to manufacture the same through Indian industries," the document read further.

The DRDO, as per the report, is likely to use the engine in the Nirbhay subsonic cruise missile that it successfully test-fired last week from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur in Odisha.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Vips » 23 Apr 2019 22:45

Per a Defence AV on Youtube, the advanced lightweight torpedo program of the Indian Navy after undergoing 32 technical trials is ready for user trials. It is 300 Kgs in weight has an operational depth of 600 meters.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ramana » 23 Apr 2019 22:56

Page 19 of the DRDO April 2019 newsletter has some details of Manik engine

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srin » 29 Apr 2019 09:24

Tarmak interview with Nirbhay team at ADE.

Good info:
- Manik engine integration in advanced stages. Test in next 1 year
- Next test is probably with seeker for anti-ship role. Two seekers option - one from DRDL and one from RCI


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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 29 Apr 2019 10:47

atleast now make a flying engine testbed so that all from manik to much large engines can be tested in the air.

ground testing cannot cover dynamic turbulences in the air, the airflow changes from swift movements and high angles of attack.... this is cheaper to do in a airborne testbed than on the missile.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby JTull » 29 Apr 2019 13:46

Good job, once again, by Anantha Krishnan.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rakall » 29 Apr 2019 17:36

A summary of this great interview by Tarmak/@writetake..


1. GTRE engine is at acceptance level.. Will fly with Manik-STFE in about a year..

2. Indigenous seeker is being proven in missile complex, DRDO.
Nirbhay has not flown with a seeker so far.. Will fly with a indigenous seeker soon..

3. Tree top flying (low altitude cruise) at 5m height proven.

4. Capable of loitering.

5. AirLaunched version and Ship launched Long range Land attack version to follow.

6. at 20:10sec "Is there anything this missile can do that Tomahawk cannot do?"
Answer : "we cannot say..."

7. Future versions may have a 2 way comm for mid-flight target designation.. Future upgrade will also have DSMAC.

8. A deep eventual development of Nirbhay could possibly have supersonic terminal flight.. (but, I think it is more of wishlist or possibility than anything else...)

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rakall » 29 Apr 2019 17:48

From the Tarmak/Writetake interview...

the scientist says at 16min15sec mark that the submerged intake did have some issues initially with the inlet - engine interaction.. but all issues now solved with that..

However in the background, there is a new airframe with what seems to be an intake placed outside the body/fuselage (similar to Tomahawk)..
So if the issues with submerged inlet are solved, why is there a new development with an inlet outside the body/fuselage???

https://twitter.com/band318/status/1122794697435570177

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 29 Apr 2019 18:07

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/11 ... 0229181440
And, here's #Nirbhay (NGL-06) during its recent sea-skimming mission. Do watch #TarmakTalking #7 for some inspiring insights.
FILM: https://bit.ly/2GFmYIe

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Kakarat » 29 Apr 2019 18:12

rakall wrote:From the Tarmak/Writetake interview...

the scientist says at 16min15sec mark that the submerged intake did have some issues initially with the inlet - engine interaction.. but all issues now solved with that..

However in the background, there is a new airframe with what seems to be an intake placed outside the body/fuselage (similar to Tomahawk)..
So if the issues with submerged inlet are solved, why is there a new development with an inlet outside the body/fuselage???

https://twitter.com/band318/status/1122794697435570177

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5T3cv3XkAEU-Rw.jpg:large


More clearer image thanks to kurup
https://twitter.com/kurup89/status/1122807271539400706
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby sudhan » 29 Apr 2019 18:15

The airframe with the fixed external intake could be one of the earlier models.. wind tunnel test airframe maybe..

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prasad » 29 Apr 2019 18:36

It says Nirbhay A L-01 in hindi on it.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 29 Apr 2019 20:37

And it is different in a variety of respects.

The wings are midbody. And the missile appears shorter.

I think NGL: stands for Nirbhay Ground Launched.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srin » 29 Apr 2019 20:58

^^^ Interesting, so AL would stand for "air launched" ? And it probably doesn't need a booster, so wings seem to be more at the center ?

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Prasad » 29 Apr 2019 22:35

Really? I don't see it being any different length-wise.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 29 Apr 2019 22:47

srin wrote:^^^ Interesting, so AL would stand for "air launched" ? And it probably doesn't need a booster, so wings seem to be more at the center ?

It would definitely not need a booster. But, the wings have nothing to do with the booster. They deploy after the booster has separated.

The intake also makes sense. Why stick to the constraints of a submerged air intake when the missile will not be canister launched. Wonder whether they would make the fins folding either.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rakall » 30 Apr 2019 00:19

Indranil wrote:
srin wrote:^^^ Interesting, so AL would stand for "air launched" ? And it probably doesn't need a booster, so wings seem to be more at the center ?

It would definitely not need a booster. But, the wings have nothing to do with the booster. They deploy after the booster has separated.

The intake also makes sense. Why stick to the constraints of a submerged air intake when the missile will not be canister launched. Wonder whether they would make the fins folding either.


But that external air intake "looks" gross.. It looks very draggy...
It just doesn't feel/look right !!!!

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby prasannasimha » 30 Apr 2019 00:20

The air launched version doesnt look like it has foldable fins. The external air intake (versus submerged air intake) will release also internal volume for other things

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby prasannasimha » 30 Apr 2019 00:24

That's the way even the Tomhawks intake is

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 30 Apr 2019 00:39

rakall wrote:But that external air intake "looks" gross.. It looks very draggy...
It just doesn't feel/look right !!!!

Think of it as Prithvi-I. Now think about A-V or P2 or Sagarika

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 30 Apr 2019 02:23

rakall wrote:
Indranil wrote:It would definitely not need a booster. But, the wings have nothing to do with the booster. They deploy after the booster has separated.

The intake also makes sense. Why stick to the constraints of a submerged air intake when the missile will not be canister launched. Wonder whether they would make the fins folding either.


But that external air intake "looks" gross.. It looks very draggy...
It just doesn't feel/look right !!!!


Image

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 30 Apr 2019 04:13

I think he was being sarcastic.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby srin » 30 Apr 2019 07:53

https://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ani/cyclone-fani-forces-iaf-to-postpone-brahmos-testfiring-119042900925_1.html
The air-launched version of the BrahMos was to be testfired by the Air Force over southern India this week for giving a homegrown weapon system to the force for carrying out Balakot-type air strikes.

"The testfire has been postponed due to the cyclone storm 'Fani' for the moment but we will be doing it soon," government sources said here.


Sources in the IAF say that they are very keen for a fast track development of the 290-km strike range missile which can destroy targets on the ground and can be used for Balakot-type air strikes where the planes won't even have to cross enemy borders for the hit.


With the availability of a BrahMos developed by DRDO, the IAF would be able to destroy similar targets from at least 150 km inside Indian territory.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 30 Apr 2019 08:09

the tomahawk SLCM and the boeing ALCM (fixed air intake on top) are mid 70s designs that attained FOC in mid 80s.
they are not how todays weapons are designed.
a deeply shrouded engine and hidden air intake for VLO RF is the norm.
a lot of effort is put into thermal signature dissipation and heat signature.

nobody lets it all hang out like they used to do in these #meetoo days :)

Image

kalibr also has a recessed intake(like nirbhay) or a small scoop(like tomahawk)
Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Singha » 30 Apr 2019 08:15

kalibr has a nirbhay type scooped out air intake

Image

the kh101 stealth shape and RAM is defeated by letting its engine hang out. this will be a liability against peer or near-peer adversaries with good radar network

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Apr 2019 09:41

For most variants of the tomohawk, it was always claimed that the airlaunched version had long range and a heavier payload, perhaps there were always these design differences for the Air launched version, as noted by having a ram coated composite S shaped duct for intake, it can have longer range and better payload and be lighter due to the altitude and speed of the launching aircraft.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Indranil » 30 Apr 2019 10:32

Sinha sir, that air intake will not expose any part of the turbine face. And I do not understand radar signatures much, but I would hazard a guess. The increase in RCS because of the intake vis a vis a complete cylinder with an magical nose is not much. A cruise missile flying at tree top level would be difficult to detect no matter what.

On the other hand, a proper intake will allow a much steadier flow unlike a submerged air intake which places limitations in envelop and efficiency. No law of aerodynamics has changed regarding that since the 70s.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Jayram » 30 Apr 2019 10:38

I did not see an answer related to power plant ie the indigenous engine apart from that .. great video.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rakall » 30 Apr 2019 14:04

Jayram wrote:I did not see an answer related to power plant ie the indigenous engine apart from that .. great video.


what???

There was a long discussion on that.. Both Tessy Thomas as well as the interviewing scientists mentioned that..

It was mentioned clearly that the Manik-STFE from GTRE has finished all ground tests and ready for airframe inttegration..
Within an year Nirbhay may be flight tested with Manik..

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby rakall » 30 Apr 2019 14:12

Indranil wrote:I think he was being sarcastic.


No.. No.. I was actuallly puzzled by the scoop type intake..
I explain below..


Indranil wrote:Sinha sir, that air intake will not expose any part of the turbine face. And I do not understand radar signatures much, but I would hazard a guess. The increase in RCS because of the intake vis a vis a complete cylinder with an magical nose is not much. A cruise missile flying at tree top level would be difficult to detect no matter what.

On the other hand, a proper intake will allow a much steadier flow unlike a submerged air intake which places limitations in envelop and efficiency. No law of aerodynamics has changed regarding that since the 70s.


When the scientist mentioned submerged intake he specifically said they needed a submerged intake because of the canister/TEL launch.. Which is puzzling because Tomahawk (with its scoop inlet) launches from a canister as well... when you place the scoop towards the corner of the rectangular canister/TEL (45deg rotation from Horizontal/vertical), it should be possible..

He further mentioned that they had a lot of issues with the inlet-engine interaction (due to submerged inlet) in the first 3 tests.. but now they have sorted all those issues.. Having done that, going to a scoop type inlet seems like a step backwards.. That's what puzzled me.. Especially when integrated on an aircraft, that external intake (which, as of now, doesnt look as streamlined as the Tomahawk scoop) can cause a lot of additional drag..

Anyway good news is we are getting some advanced variants.. with desi seeker & desi engine.. so far, so good..

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby Karan M » 30 Apr 2019 14:40

Singha wrote:the tomahawk SLCM and the boeing ALCM (fixed air intake on top) are mid 70s designs that attained FOC in mid 80s.
they are not how todays weapons are designed.
a deeply shrouded engine and hidden air intake for VLO RF is the norm.
a lot of effort is put into thermal signature dissipation and heat signature.

nobody lets it all hang out like they used to do in these #meetoo days :)


The intake doesn't have a direct LOS to the fan rotating blades, plus you can slather RAM on it. Won't really be that much of a decider vs AD.

Plus, the mission planning for most of these systems takes into account:

1. Losses
2. Waypoint navigation around plotted AD radar coverage zones
3. How do we get point 2 vis a vis systems located deep into hostile territory, where a 1000km ranged Nirbhay has to go. This.
4. Posting 3 as reports like this are already out. Don't ask me why our establishment has the compulsive itch to release such details.

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Re: Indian Missiles News & Discussions - 17 Dec 2018

Postby ArjunPandit » 30 Apr 2019 15:15

^^just curious why wait for Air launched B'mos to conduct balakot types....we can use ground launched B'mos too? or did we ?


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