Pulwama Attack

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Feb 2019 22:40

rohan1424 wrote:
Supratik wrote:Have patience. Watch Doval's speeches on Youtube. Pak is dealing with a different beast in MAD. It is not going to be aar-paar ki larai. It is going to be by gradual strangulation from multiple points. The only downside is who the Indian public elect. That will determine if the plan can be executed. They are waiting for opportunities that Pak gives to move up the escalation ladder. Uri and Pulwama has given that. The Iran bombing just gave that.
Supratik Ji , Suffice to say that the Doval doctrine has failed at least in Kashmir and also wrt Pakistan. While we never had any major terror attack on civilian target till now , but two major and horrendous attacks have taken place on our security forces.The situation in Kashmir has gone from bad to worse and after the US pullout from Afg , there will be blood baths. Unfortunately we do not see and plan for direction regarding our Pakistan and Kashmir policy and it has only gone downhill.

I hope you are kidding. Do you understand what a monumental achievement it is by Doval and the entire Indian intel-cop apparatus to have safeguarded us (the civvies) for the past four years? Pakistan has been doing all it can, our people have just prevented it from succeeding.
Given the quantum of our assets in J&K, it is in military parlance, a target rich environment and it was inevitable an attack of this nature would occur. What matters is our response.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Feb 2019 22:42

officially 80% of land is arid or semi-arid. the rest 20% feed 200 mil souls.

as i posted the kashmirtimes link, the use of the 3 eastern tributary water completely within india using barrages and canal projects will hit hard the agri lands of west punjab.

this would likely hit one of their prime export earners basmati rice as well.

it needs to be done with finality, like the movement of a irrestible force slowly crushing the juggler vein.

we need to reduce TSP to a food scarce arid place like afghanistan, this will focus their considerable energies and weapons into internal fights as to who gets what from a shrinking and contested pie.

a unknown dharmic Dost Khan writes this Feb15
http://news.statetimes.in/hurt-pakistan ... er-treaty/

The treaty covers the water distribution and sharing rights of six rivers – Beas, Ravi, Sutlej, Indus, Chenab and Jhelum. While the three “eastern rivers” of Beas, Ravi and Sutlej were allocated to India for use of water without restriction, Indus, Chenab and Jhelum were allocated to Pakistan. However, India was entitled to construct storage facilities on Jhelum, Chenab and Indus up to 3.6 million acre feet, which it has so far failed to achieve. As per the treaty, India is also entitled to use of 7 lakh acres above the irrigated cropped area from these western rivers.

Even if India wants to respect the treaty still it can cause hurt to Pakistan by optimally utilising its entitlement-making storage of water up to 3.6 million acre feet and using the water to irrigate seven lakh acres of agriculture land. If India does it, even without scrapping the Indus Water Treaty, a right message will go across the terror state of Pakistan.

rohan1424 · Post by **rohan1424** » 17 Feb 2019 22:44

Raveen wrote:
rohan1424 wrote:
Supratik Ji , Suffice to say that the Doval doctrine has failed at least in Kashmir and also wrt Pakistan. While we never had any major terror attack on civilian target till now , but two major and horrendous attacks have taken place on our security forces.The situation in Kashmir has gone from bad to worse and after the US pullout from Afg , there will be blood baths. Unfortunately we do not see and plan for direction regarding our Pakistan and Kashmir policy and it has only gone downhill.

Bullshit - why do you think you had no civilian attacks? The most irrational thing I've read on this thread

How many 'Major terror attacks on civilian targets ' have you seen in last 4.5 years?

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 17 Feb 2019 22:47

Rohan, politics is what drives policy. It is a long drawn war unless there is internal collapse. As for the movie this is nothing new. There have been several propaganda movies since the 1948 Kashmir war. It is to keep the population from getting demoralized. That is part of psychology which even the US and other countries do. Doval statement is also part of the same. If you read the history of warfare this is common practice. If the population gets demoralized then you loose without firing a shot. In ancient times they used to compose ballads. Today we give statements and make movies.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Feb 2019 22:49

PM needs to come on DD and announce the 3 eastern tributaries will be kept in india as per IWT terms as a nationally PMO level tracked and funded project with time bound completion.

also let it be known that withdrawal from IWT on national security grounds is also being actively discussed. encourage JK farmers to steal and channel whatever they want - as Bane said "citizens of gotham, welcome to freedom, do as you please, the city is yours..."

rohan1424 · Post by **rohan1424** » 17 Feb 2019 22:54

Nowhere i m undermining the excellent work done by our NSA and the entire intel-cop apparatus to shield us against the terrorists.But we must equally admit that the policy rergarging Kashmir and Pakistan has failed . Why are we always reactive instead of being proactive ? Be the sniper killings by BAT or the recent attack . When are we going to have a firm and definite policy for Kashmir and Pakistan?

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 17 Feb 2019 22:55

rohan1424 wrote:
Supratik wrote:Which means you have neither followed history nor BRF nor Doval. This war did not start in 1947 suddenly or Kashmir 1989. It started when Bin Qasim attacked Sindh i.e. 1400 years ago. It is a war between two very different ideologies competing to gain control of the subcontinent. Historians have estimated 80 million have perished in the struggle. Kashmir is a symptom not the disease. 40+ is nothing. And it will continue for much more time till one side decisively wins. So be prepared for many more deaths unless the other side disengages and becomes civilized.
If you are in for a long haul then why give statements like 'If Pakistan even tries another 7/11, they will be disintegrated'. Why utter something if you are not able to mean it ? Instead of taking more proactive steps and keeping plans ready for any major terror strike , the govt. was busy celebrating surgical strikes and milking it for political purposes.Sad to say ....but our own govt. also has failed the Martyrs who sacrificed their lives for our safety
.

Why the self flagellation?

Regarding Doval's statement, He was referring to 26/11 and not 7/11.

India has been blessed with a visionary PM with an able political Chief on one side and an experienced Geo-political expert on the other. Their reaction will not be tactical but strategic. Wait and watch saar..with some pindi chana & your favoured drink in hand...chai/coffee/whisky/rum/arrack/toddy or even Jeera pani.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 17 Feb 2019 22:55

Karan M wrote:
rohan1424 wrote:
Supratik Ji , Suffice to say that the Doval doctrine has failed at least in Kashmir and also wrt Pakistan. While we never had any major terror attack on civilian target till now , but two major and horrendous attacks have taken place on our security forces.The situation in Kashmir has gone from bad to worse and after the US pullout from Afg , there will be blood baths. Unfortunately we do not see and plan for direction regarding our Pakistan and Kashmir policy and it has only gone downhill.
I hope you are kidding. Do you understand what a monumental achievement it is by Doval and the entire Indian intel-cop apparatus to have safeguarded us (the civvies) for the past four years? Pakistan has been doing all it can, our people have just prevented it from succeeding.
Given the quantum of our assets in J&K, it is in military parlance, a target rich environment and it was inevitable an attack of this nature would occur. What matters is our response.

We need to accept that we can never prevent every single attack on Indian interests as long as there is a Pakistan [and even if there is no Pakistan, too, BTW - India has many enemies who will find other tools if Pakistan fails]. Israel has done things to the Palestinians that most Indians would never countenance and it has never been able to stop attacks on its homeland. Jihad against Israel continues unabated, and has changed form many times. The most important thing is to keep demonstrating to the Jihadis [this is the segment that is most active against India today] that their religion cannot safeguard them from Indian retribution. For this, Pakistan needs to be humiliated repeatedly, again and again, with no quarter given. Will this stop the Pakistanis or their pet Jihadis? No, probably not. But the increasing costs will make others begin to question the wisdom of the strategy. But this requires many steps to be taken inside too. Have we the guts to clamp down on the hawala money that come to Jihadi organisations [banned or otherwise]? Have the guts to close down mosques and madarassas that violate our guidelines? The important thing is to repeatedly show them that Jihad is a dangerous enterprise and will have terrible consequences, not only for themselves, but also for their loved ones.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 17 Feb 2019 23:00

rohan1424 wrote:
Supratik wrote:Which means you have neither followed history nor BRF nor Doval. This war did not start in 1947 suddenly or Kashmir 1989. It started when Bin Qasim attacked Sindh i.e. 1400 years ago. It is a war between two very different ideologies competing to gain control of the subcontinent. Historians have estimated 80 million have perished in the struggle. Kashmir is a symptom not the disease. 40+ is nothing. And it will continue for much more time till one side decisively wins. So be prepared for many more deaths unless the other side disengages and becomes civilized.
If you are in for a long haul then why give statements like 'If Pakistan even tries another 7/11, they will be disintegrated'. Why utter something if you are not able to mean it ? Instead of taking more proactive steps and keeping plans ready for any major terror strike , the govt. was busy celebrating surgical strikes and milking it for political purposes.Sad to say ....but our own govt. also has failed the Martyrs who sacrificed their lives for our safety
.

I'm sorry but these arguments are weak and honestly moronic - first and foremost get the date right, it's 26/11, also, go read Shiv Aroor's tweet about timing or the response... and with respect to having a game plan, there absolutely are multiple plans, what and when fortunately doesn't have to be per your convenience.

rohan1424 · Post by **rohan1424** » 17 Feb 2019 23:06

Sanju wrote:
rohan1424 wrote:
If you are in for a long haul then why give statements like 'If Pakistan even tries another 7/11, they will be disintegrated'. Why utter something if you are not able to mean it ? Instead of taking more proactive steps and keeping plans ready for any major terror strike , the govt. was busy celebrating surgical strikes and milking it for political purposes.Sad to say ....but our own govt. also has failed the Martyrs who sacrificed their lives for our safety
.
Why the self flagellation?

Regarding Doval's statement, He was referring to 26/11 and not 7/11.

India has been blessed with a visionary PM with an able political Chief on one side and an experienced Geo-political expert on the other. Their reaction will not be tactical but strategic. Wait and watch saar..with some pindi chana & your favoured drink in hand...chai/coffee/whisky/rum/arrack/toddy or even Jeera pani.

Sirji , I have no intention or hidden agenda to undermine our Honorable PM or our NSA.We stand united by our PM in this hour of crisis.I just want us to have a concrete and a definite proactive plan to that such horrific incidents are avoided in future.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Feb 2019 23:07

afghans have caught some cement trucks bringing in 10tons of explosives from TSP

I have posted the pix in Endgame thread.

cement imports from TSP could be one of the means how RDX is brought in. need to review the security procedures and track potential mule front cos in operation.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 17 Feb 2019 23:09

rohan1424 wrote:
Sanju wrote:
Why the self flagellation?

Regarding Doval's statement, He was referring to 26/11 and not 7/11.

India has been blessed with a visionary PM with an able political Chief on one side and an experienced Geo-political expert on the other. Their reaction will not be tactical but strategic. Wait and watch saar..with some pindi chana & your favoured drink in hand...chai/coffee/whisky/rum/arrack/toddy or even Jeera pani.
Sirji , I have no intention or hidden agenda to undermine our Honorable PM or our NSA.We stand united by our PM in this hour of crisis.I just want us to have a concrete and a definite proactive plan to that such horrific incidents are avoided in future.

Yes, Doval should send you a letter with the plan specifics - anything else?

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 17 Feb 2019 23:12

rohan1424 wrote:
Sanju wrote:
Why the self flagellation?

Regarding Doval's statement, He was referring to 26/11 and not 7/11.

India has been blessed with a visionary PM with an able political Chief on one side and an experienced Geo-political expert on the other. Their reaction will not be tactical but strategic. Wait and watch saar..with some pindi chana & your favoured drink in hand...chai/coffee/whisky/rum/arrack/toddy or even Jeera pani.
Sirji , I have no intention or hidden agenda to undermine our Honorable PM or our NSA.We stand united by our PM in this hour of crisis.I just want us to have a concrete and a definite proactive plan to that such horrific incidents are avoided in future.

Start looking at it as a Civilizational War, not a tactical battle. There will be more such incidents, how we use these incidents to further our goals will decide the outcome.

Our plans have to be fluid, else we will be underestimating the enemy. A chess game is not static.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Feb 2019 23:13

rohan1424 wrote:
Sanju wrote:
Why the self flagellation?

Regarding Doval's statement, He was referring to 26/11 and not 7/11.

India has been blessed with a visionary PM with an able political Chief on one side and an experienced Geo-political expert on the other. Their reaction will not be tactical but strategic. Wait and watch saar..with some pindi chana & your favoured drink in hand...chai/coffee/whisky/rum/arrack/toddy or even Jeera pani.
Sirji , I have no intention or hidden agenda to undermine our Honorable PM or our NSA.We stand united by our PM in this hour of crisis.I just want us to have a concrete and a definite proactive plan to that such horrific incidents are avoided in future.

we could send our private email address to the PMO and they will keep us informed of what they are going to do along with the timelines and GPS linked locations.

That should be OK, no??

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Feb 2019 23:15

Seems like the season for poems

We both left home at 18.
You cleared JEE,
I got recommended.
You got IIT,
I got NDA.
You pursued your degree,
I had the toughest training.
Your day started at 7 and ended at 5,
Mine started at 4 till 9 and
Some nights also included.
You had your convocation ceremony,
I had my POP.
Best company took you and
Best package was awarded,
I was ordered to join my paltan
With 2 stars piped on my shoulders.
You got a job,
I got a way of life.
Every eve you got to see your family,
I just wished i got to see my parents soon.
You celebrated festivals with lights and music,
I celebrated with my comrade in bunkers.
We both married,
Your wife got to see you everyday,
My wife just wished i was alive.
You were sent to business trips,
I was sent on line of control.
We both returned,
Both wives couldn't control their tears, but
You wiped her but,
I couldn't.
You hugged her but,
I couldn't.
Because I was lying in the coffin,
With medals on my chest and,
Coffin wrapped with tricolour.
My way of life ended,
Your continued.
We both left home at 18.

- Shared by Advit Verma,
Army Public School, Ambala Cantonment

rohan1424 · Post by **rohan1424** » 17 Feb 2019 23:15

Raveen wrote:
rohan1424 wrote:
Sirji , I have no intention or hidden agenda to undermine our Honorable PM or our NSA.We stand united by our PM in this hour of crisis.I just want us to have a concrete and a definite proactive plan to that such horrific incidents are avoided in future.
Yes, Doval should send you a letter with the plan specifics - anything else?

That will not be required .But if he sends to the concerned persons that will suffice.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Feb 2019 23:17

rohan1424 wrote: Nowhere i m undermining the excellent work done by our NSA and the entire intel-cop apparatus to shield us against the terrorists.But we must equally admit that the policy rergarging Kashmir and Pakistan has failed . Why are we always reactive instead of being proactive ? Be the sniper killings by BAT or the recent attack . When are we going to have a firm and definite policy for Kashmir and Pakistan?

First consider what the present GOI is up against domestically and then consider where Pakistan fits in the list of priorities.
After Modi took over, I would presume he had a simple list of items, where each item in reality would be a huge task :
1. Fix the economy
2. Fix social net & PDS to reduce the economic challenges of 7/10 of India's citizens and get re-elected
3. Manage internal security + subversion by external elements
4. Fix the armed forces
5. Establish a base for growth
6. Prevent sabotage from vested interests/opposition/caste groups etc. Not exactly under point 3, but more subtle fissiparous tendencies being provoked by desperate politicians who see their family run businesses all collapse.

As regards snipers, BATs etc, the military has been given a free-hand. They are the domain experts not Modi, he cannot micromanage anything and nor can Doval. The local commanders have carte blanche to do a lot more than they could under UPA sarkar.

Now consider, do you think there was enough time, given 1-6 to come up with some comprehensive plan for Pakistan. Right now, the intent is to manage the darn state from hurting us while fixing the Indian institutional set up, which set up was literally crumbling from within. Consider what came out despite a paid for press in the UPA era was likely a tenth of the real rot. If Modi went to town complaining, bye-bye confidence in the Indian economy and it would tank. Instead, he just gritted his teeth and got to the task of fixing it.

In term 2, expect the heat to get ratcheted up as some of the pressure on the development angle eases off.
Patience is the name of the game here.

Please look at the big picture.

rohan1424 · Post by **rohan1424** » 17 Feb 2019 23:19

chetak wrote:
rohan1424 wrote:
Sirji , I have no intention or hidden agenda to undermine our Honorable PM or our NSA.We stand united by our PM in this hour of crisis.I just want us to have a concrete and a definite proactive plan to that such horrific incidents are avoided in future.
we could send our private email address to the PMO and they will keep us informed of what they are going to do along with the timelines and GPS linked locations.

That should be OK, no??

Instead of getting riled up if we the people can force the govt to take more constructive steps(like withfrawing security cover of hurriyat) then it will be helpful.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Feb 2019 23:21

Rohan, go back and see the Army Chiefs comments. Please search under poster "Lilo". Then, relax, take a deep breath. Our Govt is not as incompetent as you think they are.

Ashokk · Post by **Ashokk** » 17 Feb 2019 23:22

Traders body calls for nationwide market bandh on Monday

NEW DELHI: Traders' body CAIT has called for a nationwide trade bandh on Monday to express solidarity with the families of security personnel martyred in the Pulwama terror attack.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Feb 2019 23:23

Well said sir, and welcome back. Long time?
Yes we cant prevent all attacks - we'll become Fortress India and go broke in the process, better to develop deterrence and reprisal capabilities a la Israel.

Shanmukh wrote:
Karan M wrote:
I hope you are kidding. Do you understand what a monumental achievement it is by Doval and the entire Indian intel-cop apparatus to have safeguarded us (the civvies) for the past four years? Pakistan has been doing all it can, our people have just prevented it from succeeding.
Given the quantum of our assets in J&K, it is in military parlance, a target rich environment and it was inevitable an attack of this nature would occur. What matters is our response.
We need to accept that we can never prevent every single attack on Indian interests as long as there is a Pakistan [and even if there is no Pakistan, too, BTW - India has many enemies who will find other tools if Pakistan fails]. Israel has done things to the Palestinians that most Indians would never countenance and it has never been able to stop attacks on its homeland. Jihad against Israel continues unabated, and has changed form many times. The most important thing is to keep demonstrating to the Jihadis [this is the segment that is most active against India today] that their religion cannot safeguard them from Indian retribution. For this, Pakistan needs to be humiliated repeatedly, again and again, with no quarter given. Will this stop the Pakistanis or their pet Jihadis? No, probably not. But the increasing costs will make others begin to question the wisdom of the strategy. But this requires many steps to be taken inside too. Have we the guts to clamp down on the hawala money that come to Jihadi organisations [banned or otherwise]? Have the guts to close down mosques and madarassas that violate our guidelines? The important thing is to repeatedly show them that Jihad is a dangerous enterprise and will have terrible consequences, not only for themselves, but also for their loved ones.

nam · Post by **nam** » 17 Feb 2019 23:27

It is so very important, that we need to respond. With a airstrike, even if of empty tent.

1. To set the bench mark for any gov (NDA or UPA) to be held against.

2. To kill the Nook bogie once in for all.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 17 Feb 2019 23:27

Karan M wrote:Well said sir, and welcome back. Long time?
Yes we cant prevent all attacks - we'll become Fortress India and go broke in the process, better to develop deterrence and reprisal capabilities a la Israel.

Shanmukh wrote:
We need to accept that we can never prevent every single attack on Indian interests as long as there is a Pakistan [and even if there is no Pakistan, too, BTW - India has many enemies who will find other tools if Pakistan fails]. Israel has done things to the Palestinians that most Indians would never countenance and it has never been able to stop attacks on its homeland. Jihad against Israel continues unabated, and has changed form many times. The most important thing is to keep demonstrating to the Jihadis [this is the segment that is most active against India today] that their religion cannot safeguard them from Indian retribution. For this, Pakistan needs to be humiliated repeatedly, again and again, with no quarter given. Will this stop the Pakistanis or their pet Jihadis? No, probably not. But the increasing costs will make others begin to question the wisdom of the strategy. But this requires many steps to be taken inside too. Have we the guts to clamp down on the hawala money that come to Jihadi organisations [banned or otherwise]? Have the guts to close down mosques and madarassas that violate our guidelines? The important thing is to repeatedly show them that Jihad is a dangerous enterprise and will have terrible consequences, not only for themselves, but also for their loved ones.

Heck even Isreal gets attacked every now and then, but that's not good enough for the newbies apparently - Aji Doval doctrine has failed, haven't you heard?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 17 Feb 2019 23:29

Guys, I maybe wrong, but has anybody seen any editorials or op-eds in US rags like NYT or WP, official mouthpieces of US when it comes to foreign policy? Reason I ask is usually, in the aftermath of their TSP munna''s grizly terror attack on India like Pulwama, there will be editorial pieces with inputs from CIA/Pentagon, along with some deracinated Uncle Tom Indian puke hired guns like Burka Bibi or Pankaj Misra, issuing some bogus cursory condemnation of terror in the abstract, at the same time blaming India for 'heavy handedness' in Kashmir, and above all on why India needs to show 'restraint', and last but not the least, asking both of its munnas, India and TSP, to make p!ss and gora bahadurs will use their good offices to mediate.

This time there seems to be none, which leads me to conclude that all of ModiJi's talk is only impotent rage like ours, and other than issuing dosas highlighting TSP's culpability, some token steps like MFN revocation and removal of security cover for the Harried rats etc; no military action is imminent. If there was something, CIA's peeping toys and toms would have got hold of the plan by now. Not that I am advocating any hast military maneuver, but only hoping we won't be back to business as usual in a few days time.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Feb 2019 23:30

rohan1424 wrote:
chetak wrote:
we could send our private email address to the PMO and they will keep us informed of what they are going to do along with the timelines and GPS linked locations.

That should be OK, no??
Instead of getting riled up if we the people can force the govt to take more steps then it will be helpful.

no one is getting riled up.

we all want what you want but we also have the patience to wait for events to unfold.

Things will happen, in the fullness of time, the opportunity will come and the spear will be bloodied and we may not even know.

that's how it is with nations.

have faith.

Kehte Hai Sabr Ka Fal Mitha Hota Hai,
Kali Raat Ke Baad Sunehra Savera Hota Hai.
Hum Der Se Zarur Aate Hai,
Par Dil Me Aapke Hamesha Hamara Basera Hota Hai.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 17 Feb 2019 23:30

Forcing the govt will lead to Kandahar misstep.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 17 Feb 2019 23:32

CRamS wrote:Guys, I maybe wrong, but has anybody seen any editorials or op-eds in US rags like NYT or WP, official mouthpieces of US when it comes to foreign policy? Reason I ask is usually, in the aftermath of their TSP munna''s grizly terror attack on India like Pulwama, there will be editorial pieces with inputs from CIA/Pentagon, along with some deracinated Uncle Tom Indian puke hired guns like Burka Bibi or Pankaj Misra, issuing some bogus cursory condemnation of terror in the abstract, at the same time blaming India for 'heavy handedness' in Kashmir, and above all on why India needs to show 'restraint', and last but not the least, asking both of its munnas, India and TSP, to make p!ss and gora bahadurs will use their good offices to mediate.

This time there seems to be none, which leads me to conclude that all of ModiJi's talk is only impotent rage like ours, and other than issuing dosas highlighting TSP's culpability, some token steps like MFN revocation and removal of security cover for the Harried rats etc; no military action is imminent. If there was something, CIA's peeping toys and toms would have got hold of the plan by now. Not that I am advocating any hast military maneuver, but only hoping we won't be back to business as usual in a few days time.

He didn't state it thrice and clarified the intended targets to not do anything - if you think that's what Modi is about, then there's a massive misconception somewhere. And to think Doval will take this lying down, no way. Too many public statements have been made - if anything this might be the result of the inevitability of the Indian action that can't be swayed by WaPo and NYT OpEds

rohan1424 · Post by **rohan1424** » 17 Feb 2019 23:34

Karan M wrote:Rohan, go back and see the Army Chiefs comments. Please search under poster "Lilo". Then, relax, take a deep breath. Our Govt is not as incompetent as you think they are.

I m sorry, if you got an impression that i think our govt. is incompetent. My only grouse is that our policy wrt Kashmir & Pakistan is reactive and not based on any particular plan.

Prashanth_R · Post by **Prashanth_R** » 17 Feb 2019 23:38

NDTV started setting new narration now that main opposition parties are not supporting strong action against Pak. So that they can blame Modi directly if anything goes wrong in future.

I think it will not impact decision making of Modi. But still I wonder how these idiots are so loyal to their masters even after facing backlash everyday.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Feb 2019 23:43

rohan1424 wrote:
Karan M wrote:Rohan, go back and see the Army Chiefs comments. Please search under poster "Lilo". Then, relax, take a deep breath. Our Govt is not as incompetent as you think they are.
I m sorry, if you got an impression that i think our govt. is incompetent. My only grouse is that our policy wrt Kashmir & Pakistan is reactive and not based on any particular plan.

You can't be proactive to a Jihad driven culture., unless the jurisdiction is under your control. Within Bharat, we could cancel A370, relocate Pandits back, build a secured area for them etc., after that only.

It was not under political plan, nor priority [no mandate for it yet]. Proactively, we are dealing with the terrorists.. (everything will not be revealed!).. you will get these data down the years, like saying 55,000 pakis were killed for x years etc. Please don't get worked up to trigger FUD, confusion and anxiety to help NOTAnkis, secularists, anti-nationalists, etc. Just humble request.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 17 Feb 2019 23:48

rohan1424 wrote:
Karan M wrote:Rohan, go back and see the Army Chiefs comments. Please search under poster "Lilo". Then, relax, take a deep breath. Our Govt is not as incompetent as you think they are.
I m sorry, if you got an impression that i think our govt. is incompetent. My only grouse is that our policy wrt Kashmir & Pakistan is reactive and not based on any particular plan.

I understand where you coming from.

IWT is a low hanging 'proactive' fruit any Indian PM can exercise. I hope that option is also on the table. VBIED is a very serious escalation and Indian political class is running out of excuses.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Feb 2019 23:48

CRamS wrote:Guys, I maybe wrong, but has anybody seen any editorials or op-eds in US rags like NYT or WP, official mouthpieces of US when it comes to foreign policy? Reason I ask is usually, in the aftermath of their TSP munna''s grizly terror attack on India like Pulwama, there will be editorial pieces with inputs from CIA/Pentagon, along with some deracinated Uncle Tom Indian puke hired guns like Burka Bibi or Pankaj Misra, issuing some bogus cursory condemnation of terror in the abstract, at the same time blaming India for 'heavy handedness' in Kashmir, and above all on why India needs to show 'restraint', and last but not the least, asking both of its munnas, India and TSP, to make p!ss and gora bahadurs will use their good offices to mediate.

This time there seems to be none, which leads me to conclude that all of ModiJi's talk is only impotent rage like ours, and other than issuing dosas highlighting TSP's culpability, some token steps like MFN revocation and removal of security cover for the Harried rats etc; no military action is imminent. If there was something, CIA's peeping toys and toms would have got hold of the plan by now. Not that I am advocating any hast military maneuver, but only hoping we won't be back to business as usual in a few days time.

It is a trap that has been baited and set, just before our elections.

The pakis are not the only ones to want Modi out.

The battlefield is mined, and the trap is waiting to snap shut, so, we need to be very cautious.

The ball, as well as the next moves, is in our court. Let us not squander it away by knee jerk reactions.

Unusually, the pakis have not withdrawn for the winter from many of their forward positions like they normally do.

Forget the politicians, the soldiers will not forget nor rest until they have exacted the fullest vengeance. The pakis are going to be looking over their shoulders for a very long time to come.

the reckoning will surely come at the chosen times and places.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Feb 2019 23:54

Ramana:
NOTES TO ALL THE MEMBERS -
(1) This can only run with trust between members. Not something Admin controllable.
(2) Please take a pldege that no one abuses others with foul language
(3) folks will stick to groups topics
(4) when there is a one-on-one tit for tat discussions, please take offline and don't write one-on-one in the groups.
(5) These are intensevely testing times for India - please be focussed and allow others to be focussed.

Something posted in WA group.

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 17 Feb 2019 23:55

CRamS wrote:Guys, I maybe wrong, but has anybody seen any editorials or op-eds in US rags like NYT or WP, official mouthpieces of US when it comes to foreign policy? Reason I ask is usually, in the aftermath of their TSP munna''s grizly terror attack on India like Pulwama, there will be editorial pieces with inputs from CIA/Pentagon, along with some deracinated Uncle Tom Indian puke hired guns like Burka Bibi or Pankaj Misra, issuing some bogus cursory condemnation of terror in the abstract, at the same time blaming India for 'heavy handedness' in Kashmir, and above all on why India needs to show 'restraint', and last but not the least, asking both of its munnas, India and TSP, to make p!ss and gora bahadurs will use their good offices to mediate.

This time there seems to be none, which leads me to conclude that all of ModiJi's talk is only impotent rage like ours, and other than issuing dosas highlighting TSP's culpability, some token steps like MFN revocation and removal of security cover for the Harried rats etc; no military action is imminent. If there was something, CIA's peeping toys and toms would have got hold of the plan by now. Not that I am advocating any hast military maneuver, but only hoping we won't be back to business as usual in a few days time.

Articles in WSJ yesterday and WP day before. WSJ suggested impending action and quoted Modi's statements. WP, as expected, carried candle crap and JNU prof interview.

WSJ - https://www.wsj.com/articles/indias-mod ... 1550248636
WSJ - https://www.wsj.com/articles/bombing-ki ... 1550175888
WP - India warns of 'crushing response' to Kashmir suicide attack https://wapo.st/2N7JKuZ?tid=ss_tw&utm_t ... 881c3b1246

As to official mouthpiece. Forget WP, NYT - Orange Man uses these as toilet paper.

WSJ, yes because it is more right than anyone would think. It is for all practical purposes mouthpiece of Republicans and true signal of current administrations' thinking.

rohan1424 · Post by **rohan1424** » 17 Feb 2019 23:57

Karan M wrote:
rohan1424 wrote: Nowhere i m undermining the excellent work done by our NSA and the entire intel-cop apparatus to shield us against the terrorists.But we must equally admit that the policy rergarging Kashmir and Pakistan has failed . Why are we always reactive instead of being proactive ? Be the sniper killings by BAT or the recent attack . When are we going to have a firm and definite policy for Kashmir and Pakistan?
First consider what the present GOI is up against domestically and then consider where Pakistan fits in the list of priorities.
After Modi took over, I would presume he had a simple list of items, where each item in reality would be a huge task :
1. Fix the economy
2. Fix social net & PDS to reduce the economic challenges of 7/10 of India's citizens and get re-elected
3. Manage internal security + subversion by external elements
4. Fix the armed forces
5. Establish a base for growth
6. Prevent sabotage from vested interests/opposition/caste groups etc. Not exactly under point 3, but more subtle fissiparous tendencies being provoked by desperate politicians who see their family run businesses all collapse.

As regards snipers, BATs etc, the military has been given a free-hand. They are the domain experts not Modi, he cannot micromanage anything and nor can Doval. The local commanders have carte blanche to do a lot more than they could under UPA sarkar.

Now consider, do you think there was enough time, given 1-6 to come up with some comprehensive plan for Pakistan. Right now, the intent is to manage the darn state from hurting us while fixing the Indian institutional set up, which set up was literally crumbling from within. Consider what came out despite a paid for press in the UPA era was likely a tenth of the real rot. If Modi went to town complaining, bye-bye confidence in the Indian economy and it would tank. Instead, he just gritted his teeth and got to the task of fixing it.

In term 2, expect the heat to get ratcheted up as some of the pressure on the development angle eases off.
Patience is the name of the game here.

Please look at the big picture.

No offense , but your post makes us infer that it is only Modi or the PMO under Modi that is working , rest everyone are incompetent or useless.If Modi had really competent and capable ministers whom he would have delegated and trusted then managing 1-6 would never be an problem.There were ministers like Parrikar who worked very hard and now the people managing crucial ministries like defense , economy looks incompetent.

If Modi doesn't have enough time to devise a strategy on the biggest issue that has been troubling India for almost half a century now ,then god only save our country.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 18 Feb 2019 00:01

This guy is a troll.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Feb 2019 00:02

Prashanth_R wrote:NDTV started setting new narration now that main opposition parties are not supporting strong action against Pak. So that they can blame Modi directly if anything goes wrong in future.

I think it will not impact decision making of Modi. But still I wonder how these idiots are so loyal to their masters even after facing backlash everyday.

The humongous public reactions of the aam janta to the funerals of these slain CRPF soldiers is scaring the crap out of the opposition.

I had posted these very hypotheses a few pages back.

The soldiers could have been cremated in cashmere with full military honours but they have been taken to their homes. No one would have said anything had they been cremated in cashmere itself because of the extensively damaged bodies after the blast.

The congis/commies have quietly instigated this new twist because of their huge fear of being upstaged by Modi and runditv has taken the lead.

The real fear of all the parties is that Modi could well prepone the elections and sink all their ships without firing even a single salvo.

I really wish that Modi calls early elections.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Feb 2019 00:04

Supratik wrote:This guy is a troll.

sure looks like it.

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 18 Feb 2019 00:09

Supratik wrote:This guy is a troll.

No doubt

krishGo · Post by **krishGo** » 18 Feb 2019 00:18

How sensible is retaking Gilgit Baltistan (or some parts of it) as a reply ? Due to the terrain, it's obviously much more challenging than raiding accross the Kashmiri part of PoK, but will also mean Pakistan will not be anticipating such an attack. I remember reading how something like this could be done in the possible military scenarios thread, which I cant find anymore