Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

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Larry Walker
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Larry Walker »

IA amassed on east side of Icchogill canal is same as IA on gates of Lahore - you dont have to enter the city. Reaching east bank of the canal is sufficient to send Pakis into panic. Moreover our effort is better spent in a thrust towards Gurjanwal and capturing the Shakargarh bulge. A North-South axis of IA deployment just east of Gujranwala to annex Shakargah and Sialkot down to river Ravi will eliminate this jihadi threat forever, militarily as well as economically and may just trigger breakup of Bakistan.
RishiChatterjee
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by RishiChatterjee »

Why are these concepts so Punjab centric, an area that has been heavily entrenched & ditched over several decades?..

What about the South, which actually remains unhindered tank-country (beside other "reasons" as follows)?

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ArjunPandit
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ArjunPandit »

Larry Walker wrote:IA amassed on east side of Icchogill canal is same as IA on gates of Lahore - you dont have to enter the city. Reaching east bank of the canal is sufficient to send Pakis into panic. Moreover our effort is better spent in a thrust towards Gurjanwal and capturing the Shakargarh bulge. A North-South axis of IA deployment just east of Gujranwala to annex Shakargah and Sialkot down to river Ravi will eliminate this jihadi threat forever, militarily as well as economically and may just trigger breakup of Bakistan.
have a look at the airfields PAF has in and around shakargarh bulge area
Larry Walker
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Larry Walker »

ArjunPandit wrote: have a look at the airfields PAF has in and around shakargarh bulge area
Yeah correct - so implication is that PA understands fully that when India is serious about dismembering Pakistan, IA armor and strike corp thrust will be in this area ?
Or is there another implication that I am not able to understand ?
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Khalsa »

ArjunPandit wrote:
Khalsa wrote:here is my two centes.
Almost all the pakistani rivers are starting up in my kashmir. Why can't I tighten the tap and decrease the water levels in these pakistani canals.
After all how much water is core indus providing to the DCB network.
-as previously told we didnt have enough taps
- we lacked will remember a great guy gave 80% of water to lower riparian state which was much less in terms of population
- even of we do it takes time for the water to flow down would be a matter of at least few weeks remember haryana to delhi takes 1-2 days..it might take around 3 days..might end element of surprise from AF perspective
- dont think anyone has tried such things before, but even if you do ..it would
- not sure thinking through my behind but damns have holding capacities and which may lead to flooding downstream if the damn breaks..which may not necessarily be a bad thing given we are going to war and paxis will suffer anyways..but still gives a bad press that evil endians killed 10000 paxis who anyways would have died or had dementia due to phoopho cousin marriage
- lastly in a no. of places, esp around lahore (read icchogil canal) dry river bed may not be of help as their side banks are higher protected and eastern side lower and unprotected..i dont rule out steeper gradient on eastern side too..
Valid points
We have a lot more taps now as compared to 65. The order to tighten the tap will only be in place for a day or two to suddenly drop the water levels.
But yes we probably have an international obligration not to turn off water.
ArjunPandit
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ArjunPandit »

Might be OT and long post.
I think international agreements can be darned in war time..sticking to that is just sheer stupidity in war times.. i remember seeing some commentators saying in tv debates when modi talked about it that this treaty was not touched even during 65 and 71 wars....my read is we have been nice because we were naive thinking our generosity would change them..and secondly we did not have capability and thirdly we did not see a need for that to use that water.
Now last 30 40 years have clearly demonstrated that paxis after 70 years of separation from us are in no mood to seek peace. Barring few folks in karachi, lahoris islamabadis and paxmiris hate hindus/indians to the core. The way our civilizational war has evolved in phases is as below
1. Phase 1: Pre partition, when seeds were thrown in late 1910s by Jinnah and their ilk realizing that britain will be leaving and they will have to live under hindus. A lot of ground work and mobilization was done. Gandhi played right in their hands under khilafat movement giving them a platform and just leaving them there
2. Phase 2: 1940: after ww2 they realized that their time is now and they moved very fast through direct action day riots all through out and trying to get their govt and partition in the hope that india would collapse and the would be able to return like their ancient leader did in the holy cities. They tried to extract max out of us and got away with loans payment to fight us in 47, IWT. They consolidated their country till early 60s. Rather than nehruvian grandstanding, forged practical alliances with US to bolster their military by forming good relationships with US and China. India also placed idealistic bets rather than practical and realistic. That did well in some aspects, but as may have commented we got worst of both systems, in my opinion. But paxis moved from strength due to focus on west part and military structure as they could channelize fforts
3. Phase 3: After consolidation, and india's humiliation with china, they smelled their chance and made repeated aggressions against us from a assumed point of strength in 1965 1971. After that they realized that India cant be defeated militarily like ghauri ghaznavi and abdalis by presumed qualitative superiority. They again consolidated and took sense of situation like india esp with russia, acquired nuke capabilities and then resumed what they do at a micro level in 1980s after afghanistan success and thought India might meet same fate as russia but didnt consider the differences that made india succeed. their radicalization and india's success so far has made them desperate and the end of phase started in in 26/11 and ended in uri when india reacted.
4. Phase 4: the current phase of light no peace no war will continue for some time and will change in our favor if and when our domestic capabilities will be humming in next 4-5 years. Tejas, ATAGS/Dhanush, AMCA, Astra, LCH/LUH will enable india to inflict heavy damage while the IADS will minimize our losses. This asymmetry enable policy makers to take bold actions when forced by paxtan as if they do big militarily their survival will be under threat. So they do terrorist attack and we retaliate on border and declare that publicly with evidence pressure increases and and that cycle will repeat more often with military also responding..they didnt shy after balakot too...the cycle was correctly stopped by india. THere are multiple extraneous factors here, like the situation in afghanistan, role of china, role of quad. Thoughts not very well crystalized. May be rudradev.

but why in this thread. Coz given the way situation is going to evolve, india will be best served by having HAL/Mahindra/L&T/OFB/Tata SED run without strike at full capacity without strikes/holidays for years churn out tejas/artillery shells and guns to flatten anything that makes a move against our political interests.

Allah willing, Phase 5 could/would involve pakistan turning into like of syria/afghanistan with few useful pockets like lahore and area around and sindh/karachi. Unless paxtan changes its discourse en masse we are going to see ertruguls with dimagh gul that will be willing to fight us at the expense of civilizational fight and we are staring at israel/palestine type state.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by rajsunder »

https://www.theweek.in/theweek/current/ ... india.html
Arjun tanks to mark the finest chapter in 'Make in India'

............ Arjun (upgraded version) has done over 7,000km of trial runs, which does not happen in any country. It is on par with other main battle tanks in the world ..........
When THE WEEK visited Avadi, the mood was upbeat. The developers expect Arjun to replace the Russian T-72 that is still in service. ..........
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by sum »

rajsunder wrote:https://www.theweek.in/theweek/current/ ... india.html
Arjun tanks to mark the finest chapter in 'Make in India'

............ Arjun (upgraded version) has done over 7,000km of trial runs, which does not happen in any country. It is on par with other main battle tanks in the world ..........
When THE WEEK visited Avadi, the mood was upbeat. The developers expect Arjun to replace the Russian T-72 that is still in service. ..........
Really really loved to have believed this but i remember reading such articles rights since school time 20-25 years back

If sure shot things like ATAGS and LCH can get mired in forces Brouchure-giri quicksand, Arjun stands 0 chance
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ashishvikas »

Indian Army Initiates Indigenous Upgrade of Infantry Combat Vehicles
The Indian Army (IA) has initiated the indigenous upgrade of 811 of its licence built Soviet-era BMP-2/2K ‘Sarath’ infantry combat vehicles (ICVs) by equipping them with more powerful engines, night fighting capability and varied advanced systems.

The force recently despatched a project sanction order (PSO) to 12 domestic private and public sector companies – referred to as Development Agencies (DAs) – to produce a retrofitted prototype within 52 weeks (or by July 31, 2022) for user trials, UK’s Jane’s Defence Weekly reported on August 17. One ICV apiece would be supplied to each potential vendor by the IA for this purpose, the classified 12-page PSO stated.

Thereafter, at least two vendors would be selected from amongst those who met the IA’s preliminary staff qualitative requirement (PSQRs) for the upgraded ICVs, and the one that emerged L1, or the lowest bidder, would be shortlisted to series upgrade all 811 platforms, Jane’s stated.
https://thewire.in/security/indian-army ... t-vehicles
Rakesh
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Russia, India negotiating upgrade of T-90S Bhishma MBTs, says Rosoboronexport
https://tass.com/defense/1330879
27 Aug 2021
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by rsingh »

Funny. Afganistan and bunnies get most modern technology for free. Bakistan can use that technology. China will make copy of most modern weapons. But India has to pay premium price for same technology. We make planes but we need to get license for every nut and bolt.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

The Armoured Corps always has the option for ordering the Arjun. Any day better than the T-90.

Why have they not? Why pay for imported nut & bolt (T-90), when you can make your own nut & bolt (Arjun)?
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Almost wish the Yanks had left some Abrams in A'stan to be carted on to Jihadistan (and thence to Cheen). Maybe then we would have seen some orders for more Arjuns... not many, but some...
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

Rakesh wrote:Russia, India negotiating upgrade of T-90S Bhishma MBTs, says Rosoboronexport
https://tass.com/defense/1330879
27 Aug 2021
Aaarghhh!! Lahaul bila kuat!!!
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by John »

^ What upgrade can you do T-90 operated by Azerbaijan performed so poorly that Azerbaijan is looking at alternatives not even bothering to upgrade them ( likely move the rest to reserve).
Pratyush
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Replace the turret with the turret of the T 90 MS.

Other than that I see no possibility of upgrading the damm vehicles.
jaysimha
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by jaysimha »

did we miss this? [ MBD-if-RP]
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Army places emergency procurement order for Kalyani M4 armoured vehicles tested in Ladakh
The M4 armoured vehicles were ordered from Pune-based Bharat Forge and had undergone trials in Ladakh, along with its competitors, in August 2020.
SNEHESH ALEX PHILIP 23 February, 2021 5:58 pm IST
https://theprint.in/defence/army-places ... kh/610278/

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Maria
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Maria »

No we didn't miss that (sort of), after another vehicle from a different OEM was ordered, our forum members had projected the imminent purpose of the Kalyani vehicle.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

The other vehicle that was ordered from Mahindra is of different class and purpose (Light Vehicle).

IIRC, order for 30+ M4's were also given for immediate deployment on the LAC.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Don't know if this was posted earlier, seemed like a lot of fun !

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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

An irreverent take on the T-90. This is so funny that I can't begin to describe.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Igorr »

Pratyush wrote:An irreverent take on the T-90.
Pratyush, I threw you another video of the same great tank specialist so don't stop laughing :lol:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

I have seen that.

So it's really quite funny.

Having said that. The chieftain and forgotten weapons had a q&a that were discussing about armour protection of different vehicles. The chieftain said that the Soviets weren't stupid that the tanks were designed in a particular way.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/143 ... 19239?s=20 ---> The Indian Army used to operate 817 BTR-60, 300 OT-64 Skot and a large number of OT-62s. India gave up on APCs altogether for a while (not counting MPVs etc.) & embraced the IFV concept wholeheartedly. I think there is room for very large orders of the 8x8 Tata Kestrel.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Alpha defence is reporting that CVRDE 1500 HP engine is ready.

They also have a 600 hp engine ready.

https://alphadefense.in/cvrde-1500-hp-engine/
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by nachiket »

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/143 ... 19239?s=20 ---> The Indian Army used to operate 817 BTR-60, 300 OT-64 Skot and a large number of OT-62s. India gave up on APCs altogether for a while (not counting MPVs etc.) & embraced the IFV concept wholeheartedly. I think there is room for very large orders of the 8x8 Tata Kestrel.
Can anyone shed light on why this was done? I used to always wonder why the IA did not have any wheeled APC's in its inventory besides the few BRDM's. The IA's level of mechanization would have been much higher than what it is if the BTR's and Skots had been retained or a replacement inducted alongside the BMP's.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

Pratyush wrote:Alpha defence is reporting that CVRDE 1500 HP engine is ready.

They also have a 600 hp engine ready.

https://alphadefense.in/cvrde-1500-hp-engine/
Great news! Now to see it in an Arjun!
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ashishvikas »

Subsequent to Defence Acquisition Council go ahead for Main Battle Tank Arjun Mark-1A, the Indian
Ministry of Defence today placed order for 118 MBT Arjun Mk-1A to be inducted into the Indian Army worth Rs 7,523 crore.

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 07013?s=19

BREAKING: Indian Army finally places order for 118 indigenous Arjun Mk-1A main battle tanks. Contract worth ₹7,523 crore. The 118 improved tanks add to the 124 Arjun Mk1 tanks in service. Good, belated news, but nowhere near the numbers this program needed.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/144 ... 80961?s=19
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by SBajwa »

ashishvikas wrote:Subsequent to Defence Acquisition Council go ahead for Main Battle Tank Arjun Mark-1A, the Indian
Ministry of Defence today placed order for 118 MBT Arjun Mk-1A to be inducted into the Indian Army worth Rs 7,523 crore.

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 07013?s=19

BREAKING: Indian Army finally places order for 118 indigenous Arjun Mk-1A main battle tanks. Contract worth ₹7,523 crore. The 118 improved tanks add to the 124 Arjun Mk1 tanks in service. Good, belated news, but nowhere near the numbers this program needed.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/144 ... 80961?s=19
Good news. We need at least 5 more such orders., it is a start.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by RKumar »

Could it be that IA/MoD was waiting for the local engine before placing the order? It could be the first order before orders are poured in :mrgreen:
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by wig »

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... nks-315182

MoD places order of Rs 7.5k crore order for 118 Arjun Mk-1A tanks
extracted
The state-of-the-art ‘Arjun Mk-1A’ is the latest variant of original Arjun Tank inducted a decade ago. The new one is designed to enhance fire power, mobility and survivability. It has 72 additional features and will have greater indigenous content.

The tank would ensure effortless mobility in all terrains, besides precise target engagement during day and night. The Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) has designed the tank by incorporating numerous upgrades on the ‘Arjun’.

The tank will have accurate and superior firepower, an all-terrain mobility and multi-layered protection provided by an array of advanced technology systems.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by nash »

I believe it will still require CCS approval and if yes then may be in next financial year.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

I suspect a big Natasha order coming up & the above is a spoonful of sugar to make that medicine go down. I doubt if anyone at DRDO or CVRDE will even celebrate.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Prem Kumar wrote:I suspect a big Natasha order coming up & the above is a spoonful of sugar to make that medicine go down. I doubt if anyone at DRDO or CVRDE will even celebrate.
The T90 ms order was placed a few years ago. I don't think it will be repeated.
Last edited by Pratyush on 23 Sep 2021 22:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Great to see the Arjun MK1A order come through. Avadi will start building these tanks without waiting for CCS approval? BTW, how can MoD place an order without CCS approval? Strange ways of sarkaar...
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Now go back and read The Week article posted above. It mentions the 118 order to be expected.
Almost one month to the dot.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 58564?s=20 ----> Meanwhile, DRDO's Next Generation Main Battle Tank (NGMBT) has passed the preliminary design review stage. It is supposed to get project sanction in the coming months. It will be a sub-50 ton tank powered by the 1500 HP Bharat Power Pack that CVRDE is developing with BEML.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 59976?s=20 ---> So, NGMBT will have:
1. Rather high power to weight ratio.
2. Hard-kill active protection system.
3. Indigenous power pack (diesel engine + transmission)
4. Next-generation explosive reactive armour.
5. Strategic mobility (hahahahaha)

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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 10916?s=20 ---> There it is. 118 x Mk1A Arjun MBTs. Rs 7523 crores. 8,000 jobs. First five units will be delivered by Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi to the Indian Army for acceptance trials in 25-30 months. Entire order will be completed in 7 years' time from now.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 99235?s=20 ---> Yes, the Arjun Mk1A main battle tank order finally came in today. Mk1A has 72 improvements over the Mk1 and has greater indigenous content.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 00205?s=20 ---> And since some keep asking:

1. The Arjun Mk1A MBT does not have a hard-kill active protection system (APS) as of now. It only has a laser warning system.

2. The Mk1A's developed CVRDE is currently working on an APS along with other DRDO labs such as LRDE & IRDE.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 16743?s=20 ---> And yes, this hard-kill APS, once developed, will in all likelihood find its way onto the Arjun MK1A platform.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/144 ... 13122?s=20 ---> Just keep this simple equation in mind:

Larger minimum order quantities for swadeshi stuff = less money left over to play emergency import monkey games.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Tweet Date is 23 Sept 2021
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/126 ... 19392?s=20 --->
Looks like the government did pass this test after all. New Delhi can surprise you sometimes.

Above tweet is in response to the tweet below....

Tweet Date is 12 May 2020
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/126 ... 19392?s=20 ---> First and ultimate test of new Swadeshi ideology:

Clear orders *ASAP* for all major indigenously developed systems. Examples:

1. 83 x Tejas Mk1A
2. 118 X Arjun MK1A
3. 6 X Pinaka MBRL Regiments
4. A range of radars.

There's more.
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