Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 18 Nov 2020 00:17

ashishvikas wrote:
jamwal wrote:https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 5021830146

This OshoCorp seems a strange company to say the least.
https://twitter.com/iyermkk/status/1328 ... 53410?s=19

First such an order has not been awarded. This is a Make 2 pgme and few firms have been shortlisted. The firm mentioned here is also probably in the list like others. All have to make 500 rounds and trials done. Then L1 process. Reporting is partial

Yes Sir, seems like it.
https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 67493?s=19

Check my post above

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 18 Nov 2020 10:40

People who have even a slight clue about business and manufacturing would know that a company making armaments, guns, vehicles, etc. can not in any way spring up overnight. There are huge investments and preparations for years. Strange that no one has picked up on it as yet.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 18 Nov 2020 13:56

Some old pictures.

Inside of a T-90 tank. It was hard getting a good picture inside considering how cramped it was.

DRDO designed Arjun tank.
Compared to T-90 and other Russian tanks, it has a lot more space and seems more comfortable
https://twitter.com/JaidevJamwal/status ... 1402935299

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Nov 2020 04:55

Expecting Avadi or the pvt. sector to wave a magic wand and come out with an LT in series production within 5 years ,fully tested in all kinds of terrain,is asking for the moon. We do not have both the design experience and R&D, AV industry and production capability to deliver in a timeframe that Ru or a western manufacturer can. Our MBTs have limitations in the mountains and the need for the LT is felt since the Chin LT can be used where an MBT can't.It is very clear from reports that the option of the Sprut is an interim solution,the best available,with a 125mm gun using the same ammo as on the T-72/90, outgunning the Chin 105mm main gun. DRDO never produced an LT option with a 125mm gun,which was a blind spot of the IA forgetting how it helped in great measure in winning the '71 war.In fact the need for an amphib LT is being felt as our IOR duties expand with the 4 30K t amphib vessels hanging fire,the req. being redrafted for a more capable design.

Secondly,Russia has kept to timelines,etc. in many acquisitions .No nation supplying us with weapon systems has been perfect either.France- huge Scorpene delays, Israel- B-8 SAMs for example. So let the IA take a call,and decide what it needs.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 19 Nov 2020 05:19

Nice try at doing a France-Russia equal equal. The Scorpene delays are due to inefficiencies at Mazgaon Dock and the Rafales right now being supplied by France before the agreed time lines with Meteors and Hammers being supplied on the fast track from its own stock. Likewise check the timelines for supply of hardware by the US. All Chinooks and Apaches delivered before schedule.

Against this check what the Russians are doing with regards to the supply of S400's- The timeframe has been extended to Dec 2021 as compared to Dec 2020 which they had committed to at the time of signing of contract (and getting 25% of payment in advance)

Fact is the Natasha lobby has got too used to supplying junk at inflated prices over delayed timelines.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 19 Nov 2020 05:55

Vips wrote:Nice try at doing a France-Russia equal equal. The Scorpene delays are due to inefficiencies at Mazgaon Dock

Really? The French didn't contribute to any of the delays? And what of the data leak? Did we get recompensed for that?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 19 Nov 2020 06:05

csaurabh wrote:People who have even a slight clue about business and manufacturing would know that a company making armaments, guns, vehicles, etc. can not in any way spring up overnight. There are huge investments and preparations for years. Strange that no one has picked up on it as yet.

Many people have. Which is why the investment in huge numbers of the Arjun is so important. It cascades down to other programs as well.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 19 Nov 2020 09:11

The Scorpene delay,over 5 years now,don't obfuscate was France not delivering as per deal.Don't put all the blame on MDL.
Please read the Fin.Exp.12/7/2008,where the blame is clearly put on France,DCNS not providing key tech. promised and that the first Scorpene would not arrive in 2012 as it should've.The first,Kalvari was commissioned only in 2017,5 years late!!
8 years later we have only 2 commissioned,2 undergoing sea trials! Have any penalties been levied on the French? Penalties were levied on Russia for late weapon system performance on 2 Talwars by the way.

And if the S-400 is " junk" like all Ru eqpt. its detractors say,why on earth is the GOI,MOD,services buying more and more " junk" like MKIs,MIG-29s,T-90s, KA-31s,KA-226s- after winning a v.stiff contest with western birds, Talwar+ FFGs- GSL has laid the keel for the first, a total of 4,more Akula SSGNs on lease,BMos variants,hyper,etc.,etc.?
Please send your conclusions to the PM.DM.CDS,etc., they're ordering the same not moi!

This is the AV td.,so back on track,pardon the pun, it is the IA ,not moi,but I did well over a year ago long before Galwan/ Ladakh raise the issue, who have initiated the quest for a light tank and have zeroed in on the Sprut,let's see what develops.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 19 Nov 2020 09:40

Philip wrote:The Scorpene delay, over 5 years now, don't obfuscate was France not delivering as per deal. Don't put all the blame on MDL.
Please read the Fin.Exp.12/7/2008,where the blame is clearly put on France, DCNS not providing key tech. promised and that the first Scorpene would not arrive in 2012 as it should've. 8 years later we have only 2 commissioned!

The TOT issue was before the first scorpene rolled out which was resolved. The real delay in scorpene production is indeed due to MDL. Google how MDL delivered the second scorpene submarine with 36 deficiencies including excess noise by propellers which took nearly 2 years to resolve. This after the French had hand held the MDL in delivering the first scorpene without any issues!!!!

Philip wrote: And if the S-400 is " junk" like all Ru eqpt. its detractors say, why on earth is the GOI, MOD, services buying more and more " junk" like MKIs, MIG-29s,T-90s, KA-31s,Talwar, Akula SSGNs on lease, BMos variants,hyper,etc.,etc.?

Simple due to TINA factor-There is no alternative. Had we the option to buy western equipment you think we could have gone for Russian junk. Look at the track record of each you have quoted.

MKI's - Unproven iteration of SU 27 for which India was a willing guinea pig , India provided the finance and this prevented Sukhoi Corp from going belly up. Each of these jet requires 3 times as many engines as a comparable western bird.

MIG-29 - Smoke emitting engines with its K version grossly underperforming in the Navy. IAF prefers Mirage 2000 for multi role operations over it.

T-90's - TOT promised on barrels and denied by the Russian's. Bare bones tank offered as cheap deal which became a decent tank only after French fire control system were incorporated.

KA-31- There was no other choice for the Indian Navy

Talwar Ships- Another case of India accommodating Russians who had 2 half finished ships in its shipyard for which the Ukrainians were unwilling to provide engines. India bought these only due to commonality with the earlier ships and to oblige the Russians.

KA-226s- after winning a v.stiff contest with western birds - You joking right? Forget western birds this helicopter is not even comparable to the Dhruv class helicopters and we have numerous reports where it is clear we are being forced to buy this helicopter from the Russians.

Akula SSGNs on lease- TINA factor. No western country would give us a Nuclear Submarine.

BMos variants,hyper - Yes decent equipment from Russia.

Remember this whenever there has been a competition for military hardware the Western/Korean manufacturers with superior products have kicked Russian butts so hard they have not been able to win a single contest - Heavy lift transport planes, Anti Tank helicopters, Medium lift transport planes, MMRCA, NMRH, Tracked anti aircraft systems, Advance Jet Trainers, Anti submarine helicopters, Tracked howitzers and now indeed it will happen again in the P-75i deal.

Do not want to go OT so i will stop here.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Nov 2020 22:19

https://twitter.com/KUNALBI25146617/sta ... 67521?s=20 ---> Here's my poster on first of many overhauled T-90 Bhishma MBTs. The tanks which were the oldest, were take apart in order to examine it and repair. Besides regular overhaul, they received small but important upgrades as mentioned on poster.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Nov 2020 22:26

https://twitter.com/KUNALBI25146617/sta ... 32736?s=20 ---> Here's my poster on the Arjun MK-1A MBT, few left out like BMS, GPS as there was no space. Enjoy!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 24 Nov 2020 22:32

https://twitter.com/KUNALBI25146617/sta ... 32032?s=20 ---> Here is a rare snap of inside of an Indian Army T-90 Bhishma, focused on gunner controls consisting of Russian Sight 1G46 & French TI sight ESSA. Russian tanks are cramped.

https://twitter.com/SupratikSaumya/stat ... 41537?s=20 ---> This is inside CVRDE's T-72M1 CIA demonstrator with the Drawa-T FCS which is equipped with the Elop TES thermal sight. You can also spot the Elop logo if you look closely.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Dec 2020 00:35

You can drag and drop the picture in a new window to read the text...

https://twitter.com/KUNALBI25146617/sta ... 70273?s=20 ---> Here is my in-depth poster on T-72M1 upgrade in India.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Dec 2020 00:36

https://twitter.com/KUNALBI25146617/sta ... 48385?s=20 ---> Here's a snap of Indian Army T-72M1s lined up at firing range, taking shots.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Dec 2020 01:24

This is HUGE....

CVRDE 1500 HP Engine
https://alphadefense.in/cvrde-1500-hp-engine/
29 Nov 2020

The behemoth of all diesel engines designed and developed in India is now ready. The Prototype is tested for full power using the turbocharger made by GTRE.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 01 Dec 2020 02:03

Indeed a Lungi Dance moment.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 01 Dec 2020 02:36

Rakesh wrote:This is HUGE....

CVRDE 1500 HP Engine
https://alphadefense.in/cvrde-1500-hp-engine/
29 Nov 2020

The behemoth of all diesel engines designed and developed in India is now ready. The Prototype is tested for full power using the turbocharger made by GTRE.

Is this real saar? This would be absolutely amazing. We could finally stop relying on that damn MTU!

Godspeed, I hope this endeavor goes full throttle!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Dec 2020 02:50

That is what the article says. I remember when BRF started back in 1997, India was working on a 1,500 hp powerpack for the Arjun MBT. More than 23 years later, finally there may be light at the end of the tunnel. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping we can productionize this baby for the Arjun and future MBTs.

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 01 Dec 2020 03:07

Rakesh wrote:That is what the article says. I remember when BRF started back in 1997, India was working on a 1,500 hp powerpack for the Arjun MBT. More than 23 years later, finally there may be light at the end of the tunnel. Keeping my fingers crossed and hoping we can productionize this baby for the Arjun and future MBTs.

Yes sir thats a big roger! I still remember was prepping for year 10 exams when this project kicked off. Mom told me to focus on doing maths rather than running after what defense project was in the works hahaha!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Dec 2020 08:44

Truly revolutionary and top-drawer stuff.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Dec 2020 09:20

Exactly. I am surprised why more folks on BRF are not celebrating on this news.

Guys, this is similar to developing our own turbofan. Lungi dance moment!

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 01 Dec 2020 09:24

lungi dance, amazing news

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 01 Dec 2020 10:22

Rakesh wrote:Exactly. I am surprised why more folks on BRF are not celebrating on this news.

Guys, this is similar to developing our own turbofan. Lungi dance moment!

Dunno about the rest of jingoes but I have been so badly demoraluzed by the Arjun saga that I dare not celebrate just yet. 23 years is a long time saar. Many of us have grown grey mops since. And the news says it's A successful test, first of many?

But I'll leave you guys to your lungi dances, and not spoil your fun

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 01 Dec 2020 10:48

Great news! Lungi dance moment!! This is the first breakthrough for the domestic MIC. Next up - Kaveri?

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 01 Dec 2020 12:52

While 23 years is a long time, we do not know when the funds are actually sanctioned for the project. I am quit sure that funds were not sanctioned 23 years back. We find this time and again that we get a reports of decades of delay in this and that project from the date of initial reports from GoI and when looked close the funds were sanctions years and even decades after that.

Let us see Project 75I. We know there is nothing other than a name 75I till now, but we have a thread in BRF IIRC for the last 6 years when the initial reports came out from GoI.

chola · Post by **chola** » 01 Dec 2020 13:01

^^^ I will lungi dance only after that 1500hp monster is put into a domestic FMBT or Arjun II/later variant.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 Dec 2020 13:14

Have they also developed the transmission for the engine! Or is this just an engine that would be mated to the renk transmission.

Also how many years of summer and winter trials this thing has to undergo before it can be certified for Arjun or any potential FMBT.

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 01 Dec 2020 14:04

Rakesh wrote:This is HUGE....

CVRDE 1500 HP Engine
https://alphadefense.in/cvrde-1500-hp-engine/
29 Nov 2020

The behemoth of all diesel engines designed and developed in India is now ready. The Prototype is tested for full power using the turbocharger made by GTRE.

After hearing near constant depressing news on Arjun's acceptance, I am all ready for 2021 Party with this news. MBT engine had almost assumed mythical connotations with umpteen legends of an invisible colossus. We can call Arjun or any other MBT with this engine truly indigenous.

Let alone wider sanctions on rocket engines, LCA; I still remember as a kid reading magazines in early 90s with reports of foreign nations banning export of high capacity tractor trailers (hauling capacity upto 100 tons) to India.. well the offshoots of this engine shall be many and wondrous.. MBTs.. Extremely High Capacity Trucks.. and

To let my imagination run wild - if we put four such packs together we have 6000 HP Railway Electro Mechanical Engine and thus end dependency on GE locos.

And Yes, the ASEAN and other nations may have Consumer Electronics industries, but with MBT Engine ready .. we are now much closer to Military Independence... something possessed by very few nations..

To all those who made this possible.. with their silent toil.. Sadhuwaad!!

Vande Mataram.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 01 Dec 2020 15:01

Apart from Arjun type tanks and perhaps missile launchers, what are applications of this engine?

It's too late for the tank and is just in prototype and testing phase, which usually go on for years and decades in India before entering production.

basant · Post by **basant** » 01 Dec 2020 15:16

It's been discussed for use in FMBT as well.

mody · Post by **mody** » 02 Dec 2020 18:18

A great moment. Finally the 1,500 HP engine has arrived. Some of the news have stated that the GTRE turbo charger only materialised last year.
I hope that the weight of the unit is comparable to the MTU engine and the summer and winter trials can be conducted for the engine in 2021 and have the engine ready for production by March 2022.
Hopefully order for 4 regiments worth of Arjun MK1A will be placed by next year and an indigenous design of FMBT taken up for development too.

Hoping for too much, but thats what we jingoes have been living on for the past 20+ years.

By the way, the development of a 1,500 HP engine had indeed been taken up in the late 90's, early 2000's and funds for the same also must have been allocated, because I remember that an engine was developed but could produce only 700-800 HP power. Thereafter the effort stagnated and was perhaps revived only a few years back.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 06 Dec 2020 14:40

Rakesh wrote:This is HUGE....

CVRDE 1500 HP Engine
https://alphadefense.in/cvrde-1500-hp-engine/
29 Nov 2020

The behemoth of all diesel engines designed and developed in India is now ready. The Prototype is tested for full power using the turbocharger made by GTRE.

amazing news indeed. I am sure our Russian contracts do not allow us to re-engine the T series with this so I hope it results in those accelerated orders.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 08 Dec 2020 19:18

User trials of Arjun Mark 1A has been completed today. Now will it get orders or more 'changes' are demanded for the next round of 'trials'.

kit · Post by **kit** » 08 Dec 2020 20:38

Rakesh wrote:This is HUGE....

CVRDE 1500 HP Engine
https://alphadefense.in/cvrde-1500-hp-engine/
29 Nov 2020

The behemoth of all diesel engines designed and developed in India is now ready. The Prototype is tested for full power using the turbocharger made by GTRE.

Can these engines can be suitably modified into helicopter engines of heavyweight category ?..or do you need gas turbine engines

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 09 Dec 2020 09:45

kit wrote:
Rakesh wrote:This is HUGE....

CVRDE 1500 HP Engine
https://alphadefense.in/cvrde-1500-hp-engine/
29 Nov 2020

Can these engines can be suitably modified into helicopter engines of heavyweight category ?..or do you need gas turbine engines

The weight of the engine would be too much. Only turbine engines qualify.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Dec 2020 09:55

With the Arjun Mk-1A undergoing final trials with upgraded systems at Pokharan, another welcome event with around another 110+ MBTs likely to be ordered, it struck me as to why with so much time on hand the improved Arj. 1-A/ Mk-2 with its
cannot have a 125mm gun turret for commonality with the thousands of the T-series that we have. Ammo will be the same,same type of barrel fired ATGM,etc.,ensuring both cost-effectiveness and easier support.

I had even some time ago asked why an Arjun chassis could not have a T-90 turret ,at least an experimental prototype.We had earlier " Tank- X", which was ditched. It would be interesting to see the result, an A-series with an autoloader, or even an Armata style unmanned turret on an A-chassis.

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 09 Dec 2020 10:21

Philip wrote:With the Arjun Mk-1A undergoing final trials with upgraded systems at Pokharan, another welcome event with around another 110+ MBTs likely to be ordered, it struck me as to why with so much time on hand the improved Arj. 1-A/ Mk-2 with its
cannot have a 125mm gun turret for commonality with the thousands of the T-series that we have. Ammo will be the same,same type of barrel fired ATGM,etc.,ensuring both cost-effectiveness and easier support.

I had even some time ago asked why an Arjun chassis could not have a T-90 turret ,at least an experimental prototype.We had earlier " Tank- X", which was ditched. It would be interesting to see the result, an A-series with an autoloader, or even an Armata style unmanned turret on an A-chassis.

Hi , remember Arjun armour stand firm in ever test where tin can lack any *clarity. Arjun gun is much more efficient than Tin can. And im sure any future development of new gun will only find it way to Arjun only.. irrespective of rifled or bored. But putting import tin naah..

*Clarity _ import lobby ensure that all its failure covered with waiver

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 09 Dec 2020 11:52

sarabpal.s wrote:
Philip wrote:With the Arjun Mk-1A undergoing final trials with upgraded systems at Pokharan, another welcome event with around another 110+ MBTs likely to be ordered, it struck me as to why with so much time on hand the improved Arj. 1-A/ Mk-2 with its
cannot have a 125mm gun turret for commonality with the thousands of the T-series that we have. Ammo will be the same,same type of barrel fired ATGM,etc.,ensuring both cost-effectiveness and easier support.

I had even some time ago asked why an Arjun chassis could not have a T-90 turret ,at least an experimental prototype.We had earlier " Tank- X", which was ditched. It would be interesting to see the result, an A-series with an autoloader, or even an Armata style unmanned turret on an A-chassis.
Hi , remember Arjun armour stand firm in ever test where tin can lack any *clarity. Arjun gun is much more efficient than Tin can. And im sure any future development of new gun will only find it way to Arjun only.. irrespective of rifled or bored. But putting import tin naah..

*Clarity _ import lobby ensure that all its failure covered with waiver

Yeah but logistically it is a good idea. If we could experiment with the 125 mm on the arjun chassis the logistical commonality is another factor. As of now based on the all the available literature the 125mm is superior to the Arjun's 120mm. I base this on Karan M and Rohit Vats commentary on the development of the indigenous APFSDS rounds. However, any science project is welcome.

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 09 Dec 2020 17:08

ks_sachin wrote:
Yeah but logistically it is a good idea. If we could experiment with the 125 mm on the arjun chassis the logistical commonality is another factor. As of now based on the all the available literature the 125mm is superior to the Arjun's 120mm. I base this on Karan M and Rohit Vats commentary on the development of the indigenous APFSDS rounds. However, any science project is welcome.

Logically 5.56gun is better still there is 7.62guns.

Inhouse Smothbore is in work. May go into FMBT. NO LINK for now. But i read it somewhere.

Each gun had own pros & con so Desi best.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 09 Dec 2020 21:08

https://twitter.com/IndianDefenceRA/sta ... 72451?s=20 ---> The final phase of trials of the battle tank Arjun Mk 1A the advanced version of the tank, was held on Monday at Pokhran field firing range in Jaisalmer district. This paves the way for induction of the tank.

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 57122?s=20 ---> Arjun Mk1A completes final trials making it ready for induction into the Indian Army. Will be one of the most advanced tanks made by an Asian country.