Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

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Kersi
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Kersi »

What is this NAMIS ?
Confused
Pratyush
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

The autoloader is a requirement for the FRCV. Perhaps it is going to be perfected for that purpose.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Cyrano »

Kersi wrote:What is this NAMIS ?
Confused
NAG + NAMICA = NAMIS (NAgMIssileSystem) I think, from shja's tweet posted above.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rony »

Those corrupt Army generals who killed Arjun and bankrolled a failed Tincan and forced it on Indian army should be identified, shamed, court martialed and hanged.

Russia was quietly killing T-90 tanks until India came along
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by NRao »

^^^^^

That is a perfect script for a Bollywood movie with everyone living happily after.

Looks very similar to the Sukhoi story. When Sukhoi was going under and India came to the rescue with the MKI.

Dare I say the Rafale too falls under a similar umbrella.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Cant GOI atleast use the non supply of Russian weapons for the next 5 years to add 250 now to existing 124 order of Arjun MK1A's this will get the production ecosystem going and soon there should be enough Arjun chassis, engine production to develop tracked artilleries with it.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Aditya_V wrote:Cant GOI atleast use the non supply of Russian weapons for the next 5 years to add 250 now to existing 124 order of Arjun MK1A's this will get the production ecosystem going and soon there should be enough Arjun chassis, engine production to develop tracked artilleries with it.
The Army will not accept it. They are fixated on a mythical FRCV. A relatively sensible RFI was released for it some time ago. But we have not observed any progress on that RFI.

They have ruled out the Arjun in any of it's current iteration.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

One of the you tube channels is reporting that the CVRDE engine of 1000 HP for T72 has cleared user trials.

But I am not seeing any news link on the mainstream media pages.

Can any paanwala or chai wala provide any information from his sources.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by NRao »

Aditya_V wrote:Cant GOI atleast use the non supply of Russian weapons for the next 5 years to add 250 now to existing 124 order of Arjun MK1A's this will get the production ecosystem going and soon there should be enough Arjun chassis, engine production to develop tracked artilleries with it.
IF Russia cannot provide a solution for tanks for the IA, there is absolutely no way any other nation can either. After all, they are all - very busy - fighting each other.

So, Arjun or some other avatar wins.

IMO.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by mody »

Pratyush wrote:One of the you tube channels is reporting that the CVRDE engine of 1000 HP for T72 has cleared user trials.

But I am not seeing any news link on the mainstream media pages.

Can any paanwala or chai wala provide any information from his sources.
Should be fairly straightforward. A couple years ago, the T-72 and T-90 engines were fully indigenized and manufactured in India. This is mostly the 1,000HP T-90 engine being ported on to the T-72. This was discussed on the forum a couple years back.

Apart from this, there was also a news item about a week or 2 weeks ago that CVRDE had matted the T-90 turret on the T-72 chassis and was conducting some trials of the same.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by KSingh »

Pratyush wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Cant GOI atleast use the non supply of Russian weapons for the next 5 years to add 250 now to existing 124 order of Arjun MK1A's this will get the production ecosystem going and soon there should be enough Arjun chassis, engine production to develop tracked artilleries with it.
The Army will not accept it. They are fixated on a mythical FRCV. A relatively sensible RFI was released for it some time ago. But we have not observed any progress on that RFI.

They have ruled out the Arjun in any of it's current iteration.
Another LCA/MMRCA situation. The fixation on imports is stalling the entire program. It’s 2023 and beyond some RFIs what actually exists as far as a replacement for the almost 50 year old T72s? Not even an RFP is being talked about, forget about trails and contracts. P75I,MRFA, FRCV all exist in the same bracket, all thoroughly 2040s projects now and yet what alarm is being shown as the enemy rapidly modernises?

Similarly the ‘light tank’ effort is being killed at inception (ear marking the lion’s share for a foreign OEM whilst the DRDO design will only be given token orders)

I really would like to know what the thought process is inside the HQs, are they happy with these multi decade long timelines or do they genuinely believe the aforementioned boondoggles are going to deliver this decade despite all evidence to the contrary? It seems like they are stacking the deck and just hoping for a change of govt at the centre who will come in and grant them all their foreign wishes
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Kersi »

NRao wrote:^^^^^

That is a perfect script for a Bollywood movie with everyone living happily after.

Looks very similar to the Sukhoi story. When Sukhoi was going under and India came to the rescue with the MKI.

Dare I say the Rafale too falls under a similar umbrella.

Same story with MiG factory and MiG 29 for IN
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

KSingh wrote:
Snip...
I really would like to know what the thought process is inside the HQs, are they happy with these multi decade long timelines or do they genuinely believe the aforementioned boondoggles are going to deliver this decade despite all evidence to the contrary? It seems like they are stacking the deck and just hoping for a change of govt at the centre who will come in and grant them all their foreign wishes
How do they know that someone like Saint Anthony will not be there?
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Pratyush wrote:
KSingh wrote:
Snip...
I really would like to know what the thought process is inside the HQs, are they happy with these multi decade long timelines or do they genuinely believe the aforementioned boondoggles are going to deliver this decade despite all evidence to the contrary? It seems like they are stacking the deck and just hoping for a change of govt at the centre who will come in and grant them all their foreign wishes
How do they know that someone like Saint Anthony will not be there?
It's been a looong time and their coffers are nearly empty. Besides that the 'earthly permanence' of the matriarch will be in question sooner rather than later. They will desperately need to make a quick buck while the going is good.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by srin »

India crosses T-72 with T-90 to create deadly hybrid tank
The Indian Army, meanwhile, has created a unique hybrid tank by combining the main body of the T-72 tank with the turret of the T90 Bhishma.

This hybrid tank, which boasts more firepower than the original T-72, has also been reinforced with an Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) originally developed by DRDO for the Arjun MBT.

This hybrid tank, which has been spotted while undergoing tests, is also equipped with Cannon-fired ATGMs.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by fanne »

I am a avid Arjun supporter. But before we dish out the T-90 (or we saved them bohuhu) let's consider some facts
1. Arjun is 45% heavy than T-90, a different class of weapon.
2. It is in every way superior to T-90
3.It is 2x-4x more costly than T-90
4. it is designed in India, but most of its subsystem is imported. It is said to be as high as 70%. Engine is from Germany (MTU), which every now and then have issues with how and where India should use what and when (i.e. in JK this and that)
5. T-90 was designed for India by Russia, we like SU30MKI bankrolled it and in turn, got very decent ToT. As of now over 96% of T-90 is made in India
6. Both T-90 and Arjun can prevail over all of TSP tanks (in tank-to-tank battle, except VT-4 may be equal to T-90, while Arjun will squat it).
7. Both T-90 and Arjun will prevail over type 33 and type 90 tanks of Chicom in Tibet (in tank to tank battle). While Type 90 will be equal to T-90, Type 33 will be mincemeat. Arjun will prevail over all. However, due to logistic limitations, we have not placed a single Arjun at LAC. We only have choice of T-90 and T-72 and in future Zorawar. Recent infra push may let Arjun's also show up there, but in my opinion that is few years away. Till the last point, all bridges and roads have to support 70 tonnes and I don't think we are there yet. Many sectors in fact may not see even 45 ton T-90 hence the push for lighter tanks (Zorawar vs Type 15)
8. Arjun will give us assurance against VT-4 and type 99, we need to match at least the VT-4 numbers (300-400), we will have 250, perhaps we need an additional 150 more. And whatever additional we can transport to Depsang planes.
9. While T-72 has not fared well in Ukraine/Rus war, T-90 has done fine. Further, it is not known, against modern ATGM, how T-72/90. Arjun, Leopard or Abrahams will fare. I assume not that great, the lighter tank being more vulnerable.
10. In T-90 we have one of the best tanks in 2000 s numbers and I assume due for update post the current war with lessons learned from it. (Which shows the rush to upgrade T-72 wih a new engine and T-90 turret)
11. Has Arjun failed us? Arjun order stands at 250 units, this is the same amount of tanks that Germany, UK, and France hold. We may order more and will learn more about it through the manufacturing of it. If aim of Arjun was the ability to design and build a modern tank, we have done that. If the design goal was to acquire many niche technology, we have achieved that and it is flowing backwards to T-90 and T-72. Even a 1500 hp indigenous engine is in the works. We have missed many things as well - APS, which is in the works in stand alone mode. I don't think the aim of Arjun was to save cost, even just on import content, it would be very costly compared to T-90. If in theory we had just built Arjun and never imported T-90, we would have been in very bad shape, with perhaps 400-700 Arjuns (for same budget), with Avadi struggling to make it in numbers or quality (it is still cheaper to have T-90 made in Russia as is SU30MKI made in Russia than HAL. Even there HAL made few of it and achieve the most important thing that they could, ToT (little more than scredrivergiri) and ability to maintain and upgrade on its own. With Arjuns only at LOC and border only, the best we could deploy at LAC would have been T-72 and not T-90. T-72 would have struggled against much of modern TSP tanks (while Arjun would have bad-assed dominated) and T-72 struggled against T-99 at LAC. With High T-90 number, we dominate everywhere. Also if your aim is to stop an assault (defensive vs offensive capability), and preserve land as much as possible with shallow ingress, you need more numbers with just capable platforms than lessers but very very capable platforms. In this I think, as of now IA armor is not bad. If TSP gets heavier western (or state of art Chinese heavy MBT), we can order more Arjuns, and if they have what they have, we are better placed now and in the future.
12. T-90 was a great investment by India (so was SU30MKI). If it ended up saving Russian MIC, that is just the icing on the cake for them, we got a great platform
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Rakesh, Please create a new thread for the DRDO light tank for the LAC.
Its a new project and needs to be tracked.
Thanks, ramana
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

ramana wrote:Rakesh, Please create a new thread for the DDRDO light tank for the LAC.
Its a new project and needs to be tracked.
Thanks, ramana
Surely Ramana-ji. Is this the one?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_light_tank
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Think the IA acted well and got a good tank in a short time.
Basically, T-90 Is an Indian tank designed and made by Russia.

Yes Rakesh.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Now a new Light tank Zorawar LT based on K9 chassis is progressing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorawar_LT
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Good post, fanne
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by mody »

mody wrote:There was recently some news about AVNL (erst while OFB), experimenting with putting a T90 turret on a T72 chassis. What is the purpose of this kind of an exercise?
Is there a major difference between the T72 and T90 chassis? I thought most of the changes are in the turret between the two tanks.

There was also talk of replacing the T72 engine with the T90 engine, now that we are producing bot the engines indigenously. If the engine and the turret is replaced, the T72 essentially becomes the T90. Maybe this could be an attempt to upgrade the T72s to the T90 standard, while being cheaper than new build T90 tanks.
I had written about about this on 2nd of Jan. Now being reported in the media.
https://www.msn.com/en-in/autos/news/in ... 8374bcab57

Seems like another attempt to upgrade the existing inventory of T-72 tanks and get them on par with the T90s.
The T-90 turret has almost completely been indigenized, including the gun barrel and the FCS and ballistic computer (both of the later derived from the Arjun program). Now even the engine is built entirely in India. The ERA bricks are from DRDO and even some of the armour plates used are from the Kanchan program of the Arjun. The cast turret of the T-72 is being replaced by the welded and much more modern T90 turret. I think the T-72's FCS and ballistic computer had not been replaced, as was done for the T90s. Even the thermal imager and night sight might be completely indigenous.

The cost of the upgrade will be high, as the turret and the engine are being replaced, but given our large inventory of T72 tanks, the upgraded tank would be on par with the Paki T80UD and the Chinese Type 95.

There are some reports about China developing a follow on to the Type 99 tank and hopefully this will spur IA into finalizing the requirements for the future MBT program.
Last edited by mody on 25 Jan 2023 13:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by mody »

fanne wrote:I am a avid Arjun supporter. But before we dish out the T-90 (or we saved them bohuhu) let's consider some facts...
Fanne the indigenous content of the Arjun is set to increase with the introduction of the Bharat Powerpack. The Geman MTU-838 engine and the Renk transmission will get replaced by Indian engine and transmission. Reportedly the 1,500 HP engine is also lighter and smaller in size as compared to the old MTU-838 1,400 HP engine.

The engine and the transmission are perhaps the most expensive imported items in the current Arjun tank.

The quantity for the Arjun MK1A should be increased, such that along with the 2 regiments of the Arjun MK1, we have atleast 6 regiments of the Arjun. The Arjun MK1 would also get upgraded to the MK1A standard. This would require an order of about 200-230 new Arjun MK1A tanks, instead of the current 118 tanks.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by k prasad »

fanne wrote:I am a avid Arjun supporter. But before we dish out the T-90 (or we saved them bohuhu) let's consider some facts
1. Arjun is 45% heavy than T-90, a different class of weapon.
...
3.It is 2x-4x more costly than T-90
1. Agree on the weight saar, but one point to consider (more relevant to deserts, but Arjun's ground pressure is quite a bit lower than the T-90, which makes for better mobility on soft ground.
3. Not sure this is accurate, especially since Arjun cost numbers reported have been based on the limited production run, while T-90 reported costs have been underestimated, not including the usual hidden costs that come with russian imports.
fanne wrote: 5. T-90 was designed for India by Russia, we like SU30MKI bankrolled it and in turn, got very decent ToT. As of now over 96% of T-90 is made in India
6. Both T-90 and Arjun can prevail over all of TSP tanks (in tank-to-tank battle, except VT-4 may be equal to T-90, while Arjun will squat it).
7. Both T-90 and Arjun will prevail over type 33 and type 90 tanks of Chicom in Tibet (in tank to tank battle). While Type 90 will be equal to T-90, Type 33 will be mincemeat.
Not sure 5. is accurate. T-90 design was largely frozen when India ordered it, and the changes made were not significant enough to be labelled "designed for India". If it were indeed designed for India, We wouldn't have 50+ celsius internal temps in T-90s in deployment in Rajasthan.
6. & 7. Perhaps, but modern warfare looks beyond a simple armor vs armor comparison. It's not enough to simply have a platform that's only 'better' than the competition... that'll simply help us fight to a stalemate, rather than allow for decisive offensive thrusts. The T-90S is significantly underpowered compared to the T-80UD (21 hp/ton vs 27 hp/ton). The Arjun Mk.1's pwr/wt ratio is in-between (Mk.1A is significantly worse - T-90 levels of pwr-weight ratio), which is a major indicator for high-altitude performance.
fanne wrote: 12. T-90 was a great investment by India (so was SU30MKI). If it ended up saving Russian MIC, that is just the icing on the cake for them, we got a great platform
I'm not sure how much I agree with this. At best, the T-90 is an adequate platform for our threat situation, but nothing to feel hopeful about. We didn't get a technology transfer, production experience, or a lethality advantage with it. All it did (IMO) was to keep us at the T-72 level of capability (for the time period i.e.) while saving the Russian MIC, and sabotaging our own.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Yagnasri »

Regarding the cost, I think the price of T 90 was without bells and whistles, whereas Arjun added all of them. As already observed, Arjun is a far more powerful system, and some of that reflects in the cost.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Mollick.R »

A very good animation on our Arjun






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CCV5lEedmY
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Two legends, one image
Image
"Ironman" Gen Dogra and the name that gets the Pakis engaging all the 12 or 18 reverse gears in their Chinese tanks: The Kooshab 8)
Image
First image from here and second is from BR.
Also nice to see the Alpha Defense/Elbit TIFCS on the Ajeya.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Kersi »

Yagnasri wrote:Regarding the cost, I think the price of T 90 was without bells and whistles, whereas Arjun added all of them. As already observed, Arjun is a far more powerful system, and some of that reflects in the cost.
The cost of Arjun was padded up to show T-90 is a more economical. All the natak to buy T 90 in lieu of Arjun
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by MeshaVishwas »

Our ability to subsidize foreign Defense R&D is unparalleled :roll:

Source: here
A T-90A and its export counterpart, a T-90S, took part in a rehearsal yesterday for the 80th anniversary of the Battle of Stalingrad in what is today Volgograd. The more horizontally angled smoke launcher bank on the T-90S indicate it’s the 2002 model intended for Indian use.
Image

Image
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by KSingh »

fanne wrote:I am a avid Arjun supporter. But before we dish out the T-90 (or we saved them bohuhu) let's consider some facts:
Most of the criticisms you and others make against Arjun stem from the abysmally small numbers it has been inducted in. <250 unties across 2 very different versions spread out over almost 20 years is pitiful.

DRDO said they’d indigenise most of the parts and localise they spares (including the engine) for serious orders (I think they said anything over 500).

SU-30 and T90 are heavily localised why? Because they’ve been ordered in the 100s and massive ecosystems were created off their back. The Arjun remained niche by design (of the user) who then turned around and used this against the product

Arjun is compared against the Leopard, Leclerc, Merkava, Challenger, Abrams, etc which is not fair at all, it was never given the chance to become as refined and polished as those, most of which are on their 3rd/4th/5th major iteration.

Whatever has been gained with Arjun will be lost within 10 years as the brains move on. The IA isn’t even trying to pretend they are interested in building on the Arjun’s foundation by taking up the DRDO’s FMBT offer. They are floating the FRCV project which will be another screwdrivergiri job.

If you want to see what Arjun could’ve been look at South Korea’s armoured vehicle industry. It would be less tragic had Arjun never matured, had it remained a prototype one could’ve argued it was never ready, but these piecemeal token orders are more tragic than anything else. They’ll ensure the machine is forever tarnished as a white elephant that was forced on the impeccable battle hardened Indian army
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by KSingh »

Yagnasri wrote:Regarding the cost, I think the price of T 90 was without bells and whistles, whereas Arjun added all of them. As already observed, Arjun is a far more powerful system, and some of that reflects in the cost.
Very much so. The T90S came to india with no AC, no independent commander’s TI, no night sight for the driver and I don’t believe the gunner even got a TI.

As explained above much of the systems developed for Arjun MK1 were ported to the T90 (and I’ve even seen some featured on some moderately upgraded T72s in IA service)

No one ever compared apples with apples and even when they were out, head for head the Arjun trounced the T-90 is just about every serious tanking metric.

I know many don’t want to accept it but they killed the Arjun for an inferior product, the mental gymnastics needed to justify this aren’t for me. Even to this day most IA T series tanks don’t have the capabilities even the MK.1 Arjun had and the MK1A is in an entirely different league. For years performance and capabilities have been demanded, now they have it they are making up some other metrics to look the other way (weight, cost, % import, etc, etc) almost all of which would be addressed simply by ordering the Arjun in large numbers

Imagine if the LCA MK.2 was ready today but IAF were saying it’s too big to fit into their existing HAS, so they need to import the Gripen or something. I mean we can imagine this happening but it would be equally as unpalatable.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

Yagnasri wrote:Regarding the cost, I think the price of T 90 was without bells and whistles, whereas Arjun added all of them. As already observed, Arjun is a far more powerful system, and some of that reflects in the cost.
Arjun has no bells and whistles which were not included in T-90 contract. Nothing has been purchased to add-on to T-90 as compared to initial induction.

Arjun is expensive simply because of its numbers and sourcing of western technology especially the engine and optronics. Not to mention the inefficiency inherent in our MIC.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by suryag »

Rohit Sir - with all due respect to you, havent we added AC/Environment control + Night Vision + Armour post buying the T90S ? Additionally, the last batch that we were trying to buy was the T90MS which came with the above. I believe it is incorrect to say that T90 has not seen upgrades. The above features are the ones that are standard on Arjun, you could term Arjun as a complete tank and T90 as an incomplete tank if we want to avoid the term bells and whistles
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by KSingh »

rohitvats wrote:Arjun has no bells and whistles which were not included in T-90 contract. Nothing has been purchased to add-on to T-90 as compared to initial induction.

.
Where have you got this idea from?

https://www.army-technology.com/news/be ... -90-tanks/
(^the same CITV that was developed for Arjun MK1A)

The majority of T90 didn’t even have TI gunner sights or driver sights on delivery which have been added to the fleet over the years

remember the CAG report 6-7 years ago?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/i ... rable.html


https://swarajyamag.com/insta/indian-ar ... t-fighting

On top of that Arjun’s FCS has found it’s way onto some T90

Arjun’s contribution to stock T90:
https://twitter.com/KesariDhwaj/status/ ... EGINdFLLjw
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

K Singh,

The irony is that you are quoting Rohit's Twitter comments to him on the BRF.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/RETHIK5706/status/1 ... BTLCrg1twg ---> AON for FICV GRANTED! It will feature manned/unmanned 30mm turret.The quantity supply will be 60:40 ratio by L1 & L2 bidders.

https://twitter.com/BlackIAdder/status/ ... BTLCrg1twg ---> Still new to Indian Military policy. Two questions:

1. Will L1 and L2 be making the same winning design in 60:40 ratio or will it be both their designs?

2. Is AON the very last item before trials and signing of contract?

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... BTLCrg1twg ---> The Winning design. That's the policy now. But provided L2 agrees to meet price of L1 & provide the product at the same cost to MoD.

Image

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suryag
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by suryag »

This new change to L1 policy is great, L2s will not be left out of the race
rohitvats
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

suryag wrote:Rohit Sir - with all due respect to you, havent we added AC/Environment control + Night Vision + Armour post buying the T90S ? Additionally, the last batch that we were trying to buy was the T90MS which came with the above. I believe it is incorrect to say that T90 has not seen upgrades. The above features are the ones that are standard on Arjun, you could term Arjun as a complete tank and T90 as an incomplete tank if we want to avoid the term bells and whistles
We're confusing between life-cycle upgrade versus outright purchase.

Yes, T-90 has undergone upgrades and some of the equipment/technology is from the Arjun program.

But T-90 came with whatever standard equipment it had along with some customization from our part. It is not as if some equipment was deliberately not included in the main purchase contract and a supplementary contract was executed separately and then installed when T-90 entered Indian service.

There was a talk of T-90 coming with APS and this bit was not included in the contract. Its a different matter that APS never entered IA service altogether.

After an initial lot, from 2006-2007 onward, T-90s started coming with Thales TI sights integrated with ESSA main gunner's sight from Peleng JSC of Belorussia. The new Commander's sight upgrade is happening 2022, not 1999 or 2006 or 2008.
Last edited by rohitvats on 01 Feb 2023 23:59, edited 1 time in total.
sohamn
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by sohamn »

rohitvats wrote:
suryag wrote:Rohit Sir - with all due respect to you, havent we added AC/Environment control + Night Vision + Armour post buying the T90S ? Additionally, the last batch that we were trying to buy was the T90MS which came with the above. I believe it is incorrect to say that T90 has not seen upgrades. The above features are the ones that are standard on Arjun, you could term Arjun as a complete tank and T90 as an incomplete tank if we want to avoid the term bells and whistles
We're confusing between life-cycle upgrade versus outright purchase.

Yes, T-90 has undergone upgrades and some of the equipment/technology is from the Arjun program.

But T-90 came with whatever standard equipment it had along with some customization from our part. It is not as if some equipment was deliberately not included in the main purchase contract and a supplementary contract was executed separately and then installed when T-90 entered Indian service.
You might have forgotten but some equipments were deliberately not included in the main purchase contract. There were lots of articles written back then, but forgotten later. The items deliberately not included in the main contract were
a) Night vision and laser range finder
b) Active protection systems
c) Wielded turrets

This was done to reduce the cost and make the T-90 look cheaper than Arjun. The Russian defense lobby was strong and in parallel sabotaged Arjun actively.
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Re: Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Post by KSingh »

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/RETHIK5706/status/1 ... BTLCrg1twg ---> AON for FICV GRANTED! It will feature manned/unmanned 30mm turret.The quantity supply will be 60:40 ratio by L1 & L2 bidders.

https://twitter.com/BlackIAdder/status/ ... BTLCrg1twg ---> Still new to Indian Military policy. Two questions:

1. Will L1 and L2 be making the same winning design in 60:40 ratio or will it be both their designs?

2. Is AON the very last item before trials and signing of contract?

https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... BTLCrg1twg ---> The Winning design. That's the policy now. But provided L2 agrees to meet price of L1 & provide the product at the same cost to MoD.

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These are the same terms the FICV was launched under almost 8 years ago now but it never progressed.

Even if this 3rd (4th?) FICV attempt actually gets off the ground we are throughly into the 2030s by the time the first units enter service, I hope the IA is progressing their BMP-2K upgrade quickly
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