Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 16 Jan 2020 21:05

If we can progressively decrease manpower required by artillery even by 30% through automation, the savings could be huge...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Jan 2020 21:25

The person in sunglasses is AM Naik, L&T Chairman.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 16 Jan 2020 22:35

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 17 Jan 2020 00:31

Is the solution to a heavy gun simply a more powerful tractor?

ramana wrote:About 20 years ago I saw a hypersonic shell with built in ram jet in a US lab study. It's still not achieved and its thrown around as a venue to explore.

Right now ATAGS fires 5 shells a minute. That means 500 lbs. And with Time on Target method all arrive at same time. That's like CAS with the medium gun battery.
A few months or a year back I saw a report that said its weight was high and could use some reduction. I thought that was Gen Shankar's viewsand had reacted erroneously. Hnair went and found what rohitvats posted which I did not read earlier.
Gun accuracy comes with mass or weight as recoil forces are absorbed. So asking for weight reduction after gun trials is typical field trials input.

CDS will decide if the gun can be inducted and a future version could weigh less. Same as 105mm IFG

The ATAGS needs induction like yesterday.

nam · Post by **nam** » 17 Jan 2020 00:48

We have access to western, russian, korean kit. Could have easily build a IT outsourcing style tier 2/tier 3 ecosystem for component/system export.

We could have done, what Turkey is doing so well.

But then maintaining the jobs of DPSU lot is more than the nation.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 20 Jan 2020 14:27

srai · Post by **srai** » 20 Jan 2020 16:18

^^^
Koreans have kept a low profile. Hardly any in the photos.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2020 23:04

I hear TSP has purchased ~ 1000 rocket assisted ERFB shells from Rheinmetall, Germany.
The range is 54 km from standard 155mm 39 calibers howitzers.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Jan 2020 23:06

However unless its armed with CCF fuzes the accuracy at extreme range would be quite bad.

So watch for reports of imports from China.

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 20 Jan 2020 23:22

ramana wrote:I hear TSP has purchased ~ 1000 rocket assisted ERFB shells from Rheinmetall, Germany.
The range is 54 km from standard 155mm 39 calibers howitzers.

Purchase must be to account for the the fact that with the new OFB artillery pieces coming in, they outrange whatever pakis could throw at.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 21 Jan 2020 00:58

ramana wrote:I hear TSP has purchased ~ 1000 rocket assisted ERFB shells from Rheinmetall, Germany.
The range is 54 km from standard 155mm 39 calibers howitzers.

Are you sure it is from Germany or was it rdm
https://quwa.org/2019/10/30/pakistan-ai ... th-africa/

The Pakistan Army reportedly bought ammunition of an unknown type from Rheinmetall Denel Munition (RDM). Interestingly, the 2017-2018 Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) report lists a $2.6 million US acquisition for 891 HE ERFB-BBRA shells. The abbreviation appears to stand for “Extended Range Full Bore – Base Bleed – Rocket Assisted,” which means it is a velocity enhanced artillery projectile (VLAP)

.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 21 Jan 2020 01:04

There was an annual exercise conducted last week, ex topchi... Didn't see a lot of news or coverage.
Here's the only video or link I could find.

Watch: Indian Army's 'Exercise TOPCHI' in Nashik
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 261938.cms

Last year reports were detailed eg k9 , m777, heli, drones, etc usage

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2020 02:03

RDM. South African subsidiary.

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 22 Jan 2020 00:38

155 mm Sharang gun, with range of 39 kms, successfully test-fired; to be inducted into Army by March.

The upgraded 155 mm artillery gun Sharang was successfully test-fired at the Long Proof Range (LPR) of Ordnance Factory Khamaria in Jabalpur district of Madhya Pradesh on Tuesday.

The gun, indigenously upgraded from 130mm to 155mm/45 calibre, has a striking range of 39 kilometres. Programme Coordinator (Sharang) Brigadier Jayant Kar said the first batch of 18 artillery guns will be inducted into the Army by March end this year.

The gun went through integrated firing check on different parameters ranging from 0 degree to 45 degrees on Tuesday at the Long Proof Range at Khamaria.

"The indigenously-designed Sharang will be inducted in the Army by this fiscal-end. The barrel of the gun has been upgraded from 130 mm to 155 mm and this has increased its hitting range by 12 km kilometres, to 39 kilometres," Brigadier Kar said.

The official said that Gun Carriage Factory (GCF) in Jabalpur had won the global contract to upgrade the Sharang artillery gun. The upgradation work was carried out by the GCF with the help of the state-owned ordnance factories, and teams from the Army and DRDO, he said.

The ‘Made in India’ artillery guns will be supplied to the Indian Army from Gun Carriage Factory, Jabalpur and the Ordnance Factory, Kanpur. Its commercial production is likely to begin soon.

The Vehicle Factory Jabalpur (VFJ) has been tasked to assemble 12 Sharang gun systems. Sharang gun systems will also be equipped with night vision sensors which would allow the armed forces to target the enemy at night.

The 155 mm Sharang gun is an upgraded version of Soviet-era 130 mm/52 calibre M-46 field guns. The original version has a striking range of 27 kilometre.

The Indian Army is expected to save Rs 100 crore annually due because of the indigenous upgradation of the gun.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2020 02:38

So these are proof testing by the OFB before delivery.
So a complex of OFB factories are working on final assembly and test of this order.
GCF, VFJ, OFB Khamaria.

Not only the range is increased but the shell weight is increased making it more effective.
the electronics makes it more accurate.
overall its a huge effective system.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 22 Jan 2020 06:06

The ATAGS trials have stretched a little too long. Jingo is getting impatient.

Next good news cycle should be ATAGS, Kalyani ULH and Mounted Gun System.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Jan 2020 07:09

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Jan 2020 07:11

https://twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/1205107732958703616 ----> US Army XM-1299 (M-1299 ERCA) 155 mm/58 Cal SPH. Range: 70-100 km. I am in favour of an ATAGS SOH mounted on Arjun hull, with rocket assisted projectiles this too can touch 70+ km range. But due to weight issues can be fielded only in limited areas.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Jan 2020 07:17

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/1205107732958703616 ----> US Army XM-1299 (M-1299 ERCA) 155 mm/58 Cal SPH. Range: 70-100 km. I am in favour of an ATAGS SOH mounted on Arjun hull, with rocket assisted projectiles this too can touch 70+ km range. But due to weight issues can be fielded only in limited areas.

https://twitter.com/Aryanwarlord/status ... 9451958272 ---> AFAIK, Larsen & Tubro is now working with DRDO & Bharat Forge Ltd to completely indigenize the K9 by installing a variant of the ATAGS gun into a redesigned turret. The fact that it, like the Arjun, uses a hydropneumatic suspension and MTU engine isn't just a coincidence.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 22 Jan 2020 07:19

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/1205107732958703616 ----> US Army XM-1299 (M-1299 ERCA) 155 mm/58 Cal SPH. Range: 70-100 km. I am in favour of an ATAGS SOH mounted on Arjun hull, with rocket assisted projectiles this too can touch 70+ km range. But due to weight issues can be fielded only in limited areas.

Admiral saab, SPH are typically less armoured than Tank.

The arjun catapult system was a good 10-15 tons lighter than Arjun mk-1. Add some weight for larger gun and turret and the weight should be in the range of 50-55 tons. Easily road transportable.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Jan 2020 07:20

https://twitter.com/deepuortho/status/1 ... 1856231424 ---> L&T, Bharat Forge and TATA seem the future of Indian heavy artillery. Huge orders from forces will be the key.

Tweet below is in response to tweet above....

https://twitter.com/Aryanwarlord/status ... 3267236864 ---> A fact I keep repeating....

In 2013 India had no factories building 155mm guns or ammunition. Today we have.

1) L&T, Gujarat - K9
2) Bharat Forge, Maharashtra - ATAGS
3) OFB, UttarPradesh - SHARANG
4) Tata SED, Karnataka - ATAGS
5) Mahindra DLSI, Haryana - M777
6) OFB, Madhya Pradesh - DHANUSH

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Jan 2020 07:22

Thakur_B wrote:
Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/VinodDX9/status/1205107732958703616 ----> US Army XM-1299 (M-1299 ERCA) 155 mm/58 Cal SPH. Range: 70-100 km. I am in favour of an ATAGS SOH mounted on Arjun hull, with rocket assisted projectiles this too can touch 70+ km range. But due to weight issues can be fielded only in limited areas.
Admiral saab, SPH are typically less armoured than Tank.

The arjun catapult system was a good 10-15 tons lighter than Arjun mk-1. Add some weight for larger gun and turret and the weight should be in the range of 50-55 tons. Easily road transportable.

You call me Saab...then I will call you Sir

Comments in tweet are not mine. I am just regurgitating the tweets.

Please see post right above yours. Exciting and interesting news if true!

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Jan 2020 07:26

https://twitter.com/IndianDefenceRA/sta ... 3789858819 ---> More pics from Army Day 2020 of K9 Vajra-T.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Jan 2020 07:34

Gurus, please identify this gun mounted on the Arjun chassis....

https://twitter.com/noahgodwin13/status ... 8792015872 --->

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 22 Jan 2020 07:37

Catapult 130mm system. Was an attempt to give a new life as the older platform was too aged. Army didn't bite.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 22 Jan 2020 07:51

Thank You Thakur. Greatly appreciated. On a totally different note, I cannot help but think (& thank!) the father of modern Indian artillery - the late Manohar Parrikar. None of this would have been possible without him.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 22 Jan 2020 18:21

This paper always has some good coverage..

https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2020/ ... iring.html

Defence personnel rejoice success of Sharang proof firing
Date :22-Jan-2020

Jabalpur is a complete defence industrial hub: Brig Raut
Proof firing of Dhanush will also be started in city: Brig Bharadwaj DGQA,
Indigenisation of Sharang, Dhanush biggest success stories: Brig Kar WDET,
Upgradation has increased firing range: Colonel Tandon Sharang Project In-charge,

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 22 Jan 2020 19:49

Order for 300 Sharangs is to be completed by 2022 by OFB/GCF.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jan 2020 23:06

Manohar Parrikar transformed MoD in many ways.
Truly great Defence Minister after Y.B. Chavan.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jan 2020 00:07

This is a beautiful news report.
Essentially Army has taken over the artillery program!!!!

All credit to Lt Gen Indian Artillery for persisting with the vision and executing it.

Kudos Lt Gen P.R. Shankar (Ret) for your faith in Dhanush, Sharang, Guided Pinaka. (Dont have proper emoticons!)
Truly brought back development and innovation back to the Army.
Stalin, a Commie, called Artillery God of War.

jaysimha wrote:This paper always has some good coverage..

https://www.thehitavada.com/Encyc/2020/ ... iring.html

Defence personnel rejoice success of Sharang proof firing
Date :22-Jan-2020

Jabalpur is a complete defence industrial hub: Brig Raut
Proof firing of Dhanush will also be started in city: Brig Bharadwaj DGQA,
Indigenisation of Sharang, Dhanush biggest success stories: Brig Kar WDET,
Upgradation has increased firing range: Colonel Tandon Sharang Project In-charge,

Staff Reporter :

Brig Nishchaya Raut_1&nbs
Jabalpur is a complete defence industrial hub: Brig Raut

LPR(Long Proof Range) Khamaria and SQAE, Commandant, Brigadier Nishchaya Raut says, “Starting proof firing of high caliber guns made Jabalpur a complete defence industrial hub with the complete quorum of all the stakeholders required right from production, testing, approving and stocking of arms and ammunition. Along with the proof firing of indigenously developed Dhanush and Sharang, LPR is all set to proof firing of other imported guns for Armed Forces and private defence industries. It will save precious time, budget and manpower of the Ministry of Defence”. He added that Jabalpur is itself a hub of defence with the major establishments of Ordnance Factory Khamaria (OFK), Gun Carriage Factory (GCF), Vehicle Factory Jabalpur (VFJ), Grey Iron Foundry (GIF), 506 Army Base Workshop, Central Ordnance Depot (COD), Director General Quality Assurance (DGQA), Senior Quality Assurance Establishment (Armaments) (SQAE) with road, rail and air connectivity. After 14-month-long rigorous reconnaissance of range and finding its qualities, refining of range table, LPR Khamaria has been finalized for proof firing of high caliber guns with the help of DRDO, OFK, DGQA, WDET, ODC Kanpur and ARDE, Pune. Surprisingly, not a single pie of defence budget was used for starting proof firing of high caliber guns at LPR Khamaria.

Brig Ravi Bharadwaj_1&nbs

Proof firing of Dhanush will also be started in city: Brig Bharadwaj DGQA,

Brigadier Ravi Bharadwaj says, “Russian 130 mm guns procured by the Indian Army were earlier developed as Soltam Gun with Israeli technology. Thereafter, the imported gun was handed over to Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) for indigenisation. Gun Carriage Factory (GCF) along with other agencies indigenously upgraded the 130mm gun system to 155/45 caliber gun as Sharang. OFB awarded a contract of upgrading around 180 guns and proof firing of two upgraded guns successfully carried out. Along with Sharang, proof firing of Dhanush will also be started in Jabalpur. Earlier, new gun systems were sent at Itarsi range for proof firing which took enough time and exhaust budget and manpower.

Brig Jayant Kar_1 &n
Indigenisation of Sharang, Dhanush biggest success stories:

Brig Kar WDET, Director, Brigadier Jayant Kar says, “Indigenised production of Sharang and Dhanush are biggest success stories of defence production in the country. Dhanush is completely new gun which was upgraded version of imported Bofors gun from Sweden. Electronic upgradation of Dhanush was successfully carried out by GCF and Ordnance Development Centre, Kanpur. Sharang was fielded for integrated firing checks and all checks were successfully cleared in different degrees. Initially firing of four rounds from two guns each gave good results of recoil length for further test firing by crew members. Its credit goes to LPR Commandant for starting proof firing of high caliber guns in Jabalpur. We are hopeful that first regiment of 18 Sharang will be delivered by March 31.

Col Rajat Tandon_1 &

Upgradation has increased firing range:

Colonel Tandon Sharang Project In-charge, Colonel Rajat Tandon says, “Gun Carriage Factory and Vehicle Factory Jabalpur have successfully upgraded the 130mm Russian gun system indigenously. Upgradation of gun has increased its firing range from 27.5-kilometers to 39-kilometers with better targeting accuracy. Upgraded Russian gun has been developed with power rammer for fast ramming and improved lethality. Firing range of Dhanush and Sharang are almost same but Dhanush has completely different features of automation and electronic control systems.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Jan 2020 00:10

Three Arty Brigadiers and a Col in charge of the artillery program.
Really serious.
Wish Armored Corps also takes interest in Arjun and its armaments systems.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 25 Jan 2020 14:46

Artillery Technology India 2020
Artillery Technology India 2020seminar & exhibition will be organised at the Artillery School, Devalali (Nasik), on 26-27 Feb 2020 with the active involvement of the Artillery School & Centre, Dte Gen of Artillery and Ordnance Factory Board.
https://www.imrmedia.in/events/event.php?event_id=222

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 28 Jan 2020 02:13

Got this picture off Twitter. Looks like high angle firing of the upgraded M46 Sarang gun is difficult and a pit needs to be dug, to allow the breech sufficient room to travel for the recoil. Not a big deal. But there is a limit to upgrades!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Jan 2020 02:54

The limitation is due to the gun carriage of M46. Its more for gun role and less howitzer role.
The point of that picture is in a pinch high angle fire can be accommodated to clear mountain crests to engage reverse slope targets.
IA has very large stocks of M46 purchased after FSU collapse from Warsaw pact countries.
And upgrade costs are quite low.
Most likely the entire stock will get upgraded as its cost effective and is great for plains warfare.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 28 Jan 2020 03:44

I aint complaining! Its much cheaper to buy a mini-excavator and dig a pit to accommodate the tube in short order rather than having to buy a new gun and its attended systems. One can see the compressed air cylinder to automate some of the systems on the gun. Its a better product than before and done in a budget that we can sustain! Nothing not to like!

nam · Post by **nam** » 28 Jan 2020 03:46

There is a photo of M46 placed on top of sand bags to give it the elevation required.

The will use similar mechanism.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 28 Jan 2020 08:50

ULH by Bharat Forge is ready.
Baba (kalyani) ji ki jai ho !!

See in the rear, mounted gun too.

Raghunathgb · Post by **Raghunathgb** » 28 Jan 2020 09:56

sudeepj wrote:Got this picture off Twitter. Looks like high angle firing of the upgraded M46 Sarang gun is difficult and a pit needs to be dug, to allow the breech sufficient room to travel for the recoil. Not a big deal. But there is a limit to upgrades!

Will this allow firing up to angles of 70 degree ? Currently it allows firing up to 45 degree as per brochure which I think is on open lands without any adjustments like this required.

Raghunathgb · Post by **Raghunathgb** » 28 Jan 2020 09:58

Thakur_B wrote:ULH by Bharat Forge is ready.
Baba (kalyani) ji ki jai ho !!

See in the rear, mounted gun too.

This would be interesting. Will this force BAE to locally manufacture M777 gun to compete with Kalyani ULH? Next tender for light guns should definitely ask for at least 90% locally manufactured components.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Jan 2020 11:57

Each Sharang system allows a Howitzer to mover from Shahkargarh Northwards to LOC, these guns can be kept from Jammu to SIr Creek. Remember, one of calculations of Musharaf in 1999 was there not enough Bofors in operational condition to be kept both in Shakargarh and Kargil sectors, Indian Army proved him wrong.