Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

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Pratyush
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

8*8 all tarain vehicle could be for an automated system. Such as the check Danna 152 or the UAE Dita 155 based on the tatra 8*8.





Because all other specifications of the vehicle suggest an extremely capable vehicle.
Thakur_B
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

I am more exited about AMAGS project taking off, if that is what it is called.
Pratyush
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Thakur_B wrote:I am more exited about AMAGS project taking off, if that is what it is called.
What is this program?
Thakur_B
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Pratyush wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:I am more exited about AMAGS project taking off, if that is what it is called.
What is this program?
Advanced Mounted Artillery Gun System
Kakarat
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Kakarat »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/Nexoft034/status/13 ... 95233?s=20 ---> CONFIRMED.

ATAGS will be modified for MGS role. Initially dubbed as Advanced Mounted Artillery Gun System (AMAGS), a highly automated fire control system has also been proposed for it along with an autoloader. Will also possess shoot & scoot capability.

https://twitter.com/Nexoft034/status/13 ... 38592?s=20 ---> This DOES NOT means ATAGS is discarded. It will be mass produced along with AMAGS.

https://twitter.com/kaustav2001/status/ ... 81730?s=20 ---> ATAGS at 18T is a heavy artillery gun, due to the 25L chamber. Would be interesting to see how they plan on integrating it on a truck chassis (handling mobility, weight and recoil issues) & timelines involved. The OFB effort itself looked pretty clumsy with that huge overhang.

https://twitter.com/Nexoft034/status/13 ... 03552?s=20 ---> Engine, tires, axles, gear, diesel tank, towing handle, bottom chassis, spades and several other things will be removed from ATAGS to remove weight.
ramana
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

IA keeps gold plating requirements to avoid buying what's available now.
How long this charade goes on we have to see?
Artillery is going the way of Armored Corps.
We saw the bokwas with just infantry rifle.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by fanne »

But sir the cat has to belled. Unfortunately, it has to be the GOI, on the risk of Raul Gandi alleging corruption. Unless we can leverage CSDS or some upright officer.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Kakkaji »

Why aren't they buying the MGS that is currently available from Bharat Forge, instead of waiting for development of AMAGS which will take several years?
Vips
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

With our never ending permutation and combination of user trails/changing user specs, it a big consolation that if there is national emergency at least we have the option to equip our forces with Bharat Forge MGS which is a 155 MM 39 caliber gun on a 6X6 platform.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by mody »

BEML has started work on a 8x8 platform for the proposed MGS. This would mean that a 52 cal gun would probably need a 8x8 platform. Or it might be that the higher weight and recoil of the ATAGS would need a 8x8 platform.
If this is the case then MGS on a 6x6 platform should also be developed based either on the Bharat forge Bharat-45 or 39 cal or 52 cal gun or Dhanush 45 gun.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

Four valuable years after having a program of MGS, question here is why the heck is DRDO now re-inventing the wheel and trying to put the unwieldy ATAGS on a truck?

OFB/BEML had also some years back shown the proposed 52 cal version of Dhanush on a Tatra 8X8 truck.
Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) & Bharat Earth Movers Ltd. (BEML) unveiled its latest product viz 155mm/52 calibers Mounted Gun system at DefExpo India 2018 in Chennai, which closed down on 16 April. It was launched jointly by CMD, BEML Shri Deepak Kumar Hota and DGOF & Chairman OFB Shri S K Chourasia.

Image

The uniqueness of this project is that it has been completely and independently designed and manufactured by OFB in association with BEML & BEL, and is therefore a shining example of the “Make in India” policy so strongly promoted by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

The 155 mm / 52 Cal can reach targets distant of approximately 42 km. The onboard ammunition storage capability is of 18 rounds of HE shells, as well as 18 BMCS and 2-6 chargers. The gun is equipped with a GPS-aided INS, muzzle velocity feeder data management, day and night firing, and ballasting computer system capability.

The base vehicle used for the gun system is the BEML-Tatra 8x8 truck with all differential lockable and a 300 KW (402 hp) V8, air-cooled diesel engine, which provides a power-to-weight ratio of more than 10KW/ton. This is a high mobility vehicle with independent wheel suspension and swinging half axles to provide enhanced cross-country mobility. The vehicle has a cruising speed of 80 km/h on road and more than 30 km/h in cross-country. Its cruising range nears 1,000 km without refueling.

With its high strategic maneuverability in all types of terrain, it will serve as an all-weather reinforcement for the infantry and will be a present force multiplier for the Indian artillery.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by mody »

Even Tata had made a MGS prototype with a Denel gun on a Tata truck. The Denel gun can easily be replaced with Bharat-52 gun of Bharat Forge. All the electronics were supposed to be indigenous, either developed by Tata or a DRDO/BEL Tata combo. Though I guess matching the ruggedness of a Tatra truck would be difficult.
Vips
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

Some positive news according to a Defence AV : The Kalyani 155 MM 39 Cal Mounted Gun (on 4X4) is undergoing trials by the Indian Army.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Kakarat »

Army Looks to Buy Indigenous Mounted Gun Systems: Here's How It Will Sharpen Attacks in Mountains
To sharpen its mountain warfare prowess, the Army is looking to buy 105mm/37 calibre mounted gun system for deployment in the mountains and high-altitude areas along India’s northern borders which it shares with Pakistan and China.

A Request for Information (RFI) published by the Army on Friday stated field regiments of the Army will be equipped with the new mounted gun systems for “shoot and scoot” capabilities for operations in mountains. The information has been sought from Indian vendors.

The RFI has stated that the gun systems should be able to fire all in-service ammunition during trials, have an inertial navigation system based sight system with capability to provide orientation and fixation to the gun system and the capability to engage targets by direct firing during day and night, while also having a built-in test facility to identify faults and support repairs of the equipment.

The RFI has also sought details from the vendors on the status of development, whether the components of the equipment will be sourced indigenously, the communication system to be used for inter-communication within the gun crew and the maintenance philosophy of the equipment, aside from details about its mobility parameters such as its fuel, emission norms and speed among others.
Vips
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

This seems a tailor made RFI to procure the Bharat Forge guns. If now the OFB/DRDO does not come up with a jugaad of 105 MM LFG on a 4x4 or 6X6 then wont the absence of competing products make this a single vendor situation?
Pratyush
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Vips wrote:This seems a tailor made RFI to procure the Bharat Forge guns. If now the OFB/DRDO does not come up with a jugaad of 105 MM LFG on a 4x4 or 6X6 then wont the absence of competing products make this a single vendor situation?
Not if the tender is only for Indian companies.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by bharathp »

Vips wrote:This seems a tailor made RFI to procure the Bharat Forge guns. If now the OFB/DRDO does not come up with a jugaad of 105 MM LFG on a 4x4 or 6X6 then wont the absence of competing products make this a single vendor situation?
do we even have the luxury of not having single vendor for made in india stuff?
Anujan
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Anujan »

Image

Kalyani Garuda V2 (105mm 37 cal)
Pratyush
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

I want to know more about the trucks on which the 105 & 155 are mounted on.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

I hope this is an RFI tailored towards an Indian vendor (Kalyani). That would be a first.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

Prem Kumar wrote:I hope this is an RFI tailored towards an Indian vendor (Kalyani). That would be a first.
Lungi dance if this goes thru
mody
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by mody »

OFB had shown a jugaad version a few years back. The photo is given below link.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxserp=0
shaun
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by shaun »

:shock: what is this ?? Even the technicals come with better
aesthetically designed improvised systems .
Vips
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

mody wrote:OFB had shown a jugaad version a few years back. The photo is given below link.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ajaxserp=0
My God that is a unwieldy contraption. What a difference between what a private sector company and a public sector unit can come up with.
Bharat Forge even makes a 155 MM mounted system on a 4X4.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by mody »

The Kalyani 155mm mounted gun is a 39 cal version mounted on a 4x4 truck. A larger 8x8 version for ATAGS or OFB 52 cal version is in the works.
I suspect that both might get inducted. The Kalyani 4x4 truck will be easier to transport and move around in the mountains, but will obviously have a lower range.

For the present 105mm requirement, its going to be Kalyani Garuda all the way. The OFB bid can be put in, just to avoid a single vendor situation. Will be interesting to see the projected quantity required by IA.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Tanaji »

It’s interesting to note that none of the indigenous systems have been inducted. The only system to be inducted is the South Korean K9. All the other systems be it Dhanush, ATAGS or the Garuda are stuck in trials limbo, which is the preferred method for IA to kill a system.

Another instructive point was that M777 has s barrel burst but was subsequently inducted owing to a faulty shell finding, but Dhanush is still being tested. Not that Dhanush design is based on the proven Bofors one, so the usual IA argument that the testing cycle being involved due to it being a unproven system doesnt apply.

I doubt how many of these systems will be inducted given IAs track record so far inspite of the huge requirement they have.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

The arty will be Indian made and designed.

This is only a matter of time.

The Army has no choice.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by SidSoma »

Pratyush wrote:The arty will be Indian made and designed.

This is only a matter of time.

The Army has no choice.

That is all the Army want...... to delay until the next emergency can be utilized to push imports under emergency powers. There is nothing new here
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

That is not going to happen. Even the emergency purchase will be from Indian sources.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Nick_S »

Rejoice!

ATAGS has passed the Pokhran trials.

https://twitter.com/iyermkk/status/1521 ... Fm6JFw7IJw

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... Fm6JFw7IJw

Looks like both the Tata and Kaylani derivatives have passed.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

Great news. After Dhanush, now ATAGS. Let's speed ahead with orders. Hope MGS will also sail through.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Nick_S wrote:Rejoice!

ATAGS has passed the Pokhran trials.

Looks like both the Tata and Kaylani derivatives have passed.
Great news! Finally! Jai Hind! Now please place orders.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by mody »

Import of artillery has been put in the banned list. The order for Dhanush, has already been placed. The production had been stopped. Now with the new trials having been completed last month or was it February, the production should continue. Additional order for 300 guns, preferably of the 52 cal version should also be placed. The cost of Dhanush is cheaper than ATAGS.

Hopefully now that the confirmation trials of ATAGS have been completed, at least the LSP order of 150 guns will be placed. The same was to be placed about 3 years ago. Hopefully followed by production orders for say 1,000-1,500 odd guns.

How is the progress in the Sharang project? IA was supposed to be happy with the gun, especially as the cost of the upgrade was about 75-80 lakhs per gun. All the firing trials of the LSP guns had been a success.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

mody wrote:
Hopefully now that the confirmation trials of ATAGS have been completed, at least the LSP order of 150 guns will be placed. The same was to be placed about 3 years ago. Hopefully followed by production orders for say 1,000-1,500 odd guns.

I have stopped celebrating tests.. we need large orders.. 1000 guns order will be huge for our desi MIC
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Tanaji »

Mody-ji,

Wasnt the Dhanush order for 114 guns placed back in 2019? Were they testing it for 3 years AFTER production go ahead?
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by bala »

I am summarizing where Indian Army stands on advanced artillery.

Dhanush: Army has initial order for 114 of the 155mm x 45mm Dhanush, manufactured by the Ordnance Factory Board’s Gun Carriage Factory (GCF) in Madhya Pradesh’s Jabalpur — now known as Advanced Weapons and Equipment India (AWE) Limited. Dhanush is based on the Bofors/Haubits F77B Howitzer design, with minimal modifications. The munition caliber of 39 vs 45 is the main change. The weight of the Dhanush is 13 tons, which is 700 kg more than that of Bofors FH-77. Dhanush guns, which have a strike range of 38 km, fired 90 rounds each “flawlessly” as part of the second line of firing in Zone 6 at the Pokhran firing range, in March, 2022. Second line of firing means the firing of guns through ammunition replenishment of 45 rounds each continuously, while zone 6 refers to the highest charge, which makes the gun fire at it its maximum range. During this process, the barrel gets very hot and may burst and hence the successful firing showed that the gun is now ready for active deployment.

ATAGS: ATAGS, being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) along with private firms Bharat Forge and TATA Power SED. The ATAGS has unmatched range, with Extended Range Sub-Bore Boat Tail (ERFB BT) ammunition capable of hitting targets at 35 km and with ERFB BB (Base Bleed) ammunition with a 45 km range. The ATAGS actually fired at a range of 47 km in 2017. A top Defense Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) scientist has claimed that The Advanced Towed Artillery Gun (ATAGS) Howitzer is the best gun in the world. ATAGS can fire five rounds in a minute whereas others can fire only three rounds. ATAGS when ordered, both the private firms, Bharat Forge and TATA Power SED, will get orders, but the lowest bidder would get the largest share — 60 per cent or more. The munition caliber is 52 mm.

Indian Army has the following:
M-777 lightweight howitzers: These guns have a maximum range of about 40 km with specialised munitions. These lightweight howitzers can be picked up by helicopters and taken to forward locations.

Vajra: L&T has signed a transfer of technology contract with the South Korean firm, Hanwha Corporation, which is the original manufacturer of the gun system known as K9 Thunder. L&T K9 Vajra are delivered with more than 80 per cent indigenous work packages and above 50 per cent indigenisation (by value) at the programme level, by replacing 14 critical systems in the Korean ‘K9 Thunder’ with indigenously developed and produced systems. Vajra is a formidable gun system. It has a high range and because it is tracked, the movement in the mountains becomes easier. Vajra has a range of over 50 km depending on the munition used. Order for 100 Vajras and another 200 are slated to be acquired.
Anujan
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Anujan »



Video about Garuda from Kalyani. Look at the hairpin bends it is negotiating.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by vimal »

Anujan wrote:Video about Garuda from Kalyani. Look at the hairpin bends it is negotiating.
Nice video. Is this part of the autumn workouts?
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Anujan »

Tweet from TASL
155/52 mm ATAGS jointly developed by DRDO (ARDE) and TASL successfully completed PSQR firing trials today. A true example of Public-Private Partnership leading to a world class weapon system fully designed and developed in India. Such a weapon system is highly strategic for India
https://twitter.com/tataadvanced/status ... 4684335104

And from Bharat Forge
Successful demonstration of ATAGS during recently held firing trials at Pokhran ranges is a standing testimony to Indian Industry’s capability in developing and manufacturing advanced weapon systems for our armed forces.

We @BharatForgeLtd take great pride in being @DRDO’s development partner in this prestigious #MakeinIndia initiative and thank them for their invaluable guidance at every stage of the program.
https://twitter.com/BharatForgeLtd/stat ... 7340140544

Check out the tweets, there are pictures in there as well (not sure if it is a generic ATAGS picture or it was taken from this trial).

Hopefully "go replace electric systems with hydraulic and come back after 5 years and meanwhile lets induct 400 Athos because of urgency" idiocy goes away.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by fanne »

For now GOI 1, chandigarh lobby 0 - for now that is. Would either wait for real orders or wait for moon test
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