Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

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Manish_P
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Referring to the pending deliveries probably. However if more are ordered then it would be welcome. Along with hundreds of desi Dhanush, ATAGs, of course..
Pratyush
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

During the initial discussion about the procurement of the M777. We were seeing discussion about the eventual numbers being upto 900 pices.

So they might be thinking about that being the new procurement of the gun's.
brar_w
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

The article also settles when the deliveries of the 145 will be completed as this was being discussed here a few weeks ago (given the delays and uncertainties due to COVID). It appears that the target is to hand over the last gun to IA by June 2022.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

Pratyush wrote:During the initial discussion about the procurement of the M777. We were seeing discussion about the eventual numbers being upto 900 pices.

So they might be thinking about that being the new procurement of the gun's.
Wah! Probably buy 5 Dhanush too?
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Vivek K wrote: Wah! Probably buy 5 Dhanush too?
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 026_1.html

The army will once done with the PRC requirements. Has still a requirement for nearly 3000 towed pieces. ATAGS and 52 cal Dhanush guns.

Don't worry, it will be as it should be.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 95681?s=20 ---> India successfully test fires cluster munitions version of Pinaka rocket. Each rocket has 234 bomblets and will be used for area suppression strikes against enemy troop/vehicle concentrations. All versions of Pinaka (Mk1, Mk2 and guided Pinaka) can be equipped with this warhead.
ramana
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/TheLegateIN/status/ ... 95681?s=20 ---> India successfully test fires cluster munitions version of Pinaka rocket. Each rocket has 234 bomblets and will be used for area suppression strikes against enemy troop/vehicle concentrations. All versions of Pinaka (Mk1, Mk2 and guided Pinaka) can be equipped with this warhead.
The tweets about the 96.5% functioning vs goal of 90% tell a great story about the fuzing mechanism.
Each of those bomblets was fuzed with highly reliable fuzes developed for this purpose.
Kudos to DRDO for designing and overseeing the Mfg and quality control of these devices.
ramana
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

No more Longewala type attacks.
Prem Kumar
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

How effective are these cluster munitions against MBTs?

Against APCs, jeeps, trucks etc, I can understand
ramana
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

These are not for tanks.
That's a different type of ammo.
Rakesh
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

If only those marigolds & balloons were not on that gun!

https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/statu ... 06309?s=20 ---> Up-gunned from 130mm to 155mm - The Sarang.

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/Kunal_Biswas707/sta ... 88293?s=20 ---> Indian Wheeled 155mm of 52 Caliber SPGH based on Tatra 815 8X8.

https://twitter.com/Kunal_Biswas707/sta ... 69478?s=20 ---> Dhanush 52 mated with TATRA 815.

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Pratyush
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

Those are old images. From a few years ago. This is the reason why I have constantly believed that Athos 52 will not be acquired by the India. In place of ATAGS.

The 52 cal barrel will be fitted to the Dhanush carriage. If it comes to that.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 00833?s=20 ---> Defence Min Rajnath Singh unveils indigenous Multi-terrain Artillery Gun (MArG) 155–R Designed/Developed By Bharat Forge. World's first gun system with 155mm 39 caliber mounted on 4x4 HMV MArG 155- BR unveiled at BF, Pune, in the presence of IA Chief, General MM Naravane.

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 34369?s=20 ---> About Bharat Force MArG 155 - BR.

* Only 155mm 39 caliber gun system mounted on 4x4 HMV in the world
* Gradient negotiation: 30 (go anywhere gun)
* Shoot and scoot capability
* All up Weight: 18 ton
* Capable of firing complete NATO standard ammo
* Burst Rate: 3 rounds in 30 second

Image

Image

Image
Vips
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

The difference between a Private Industry and a PSU cannot be more starker then what is obvious from the development of Wheeled artillery products in the images above. Consider this:

Bharat Forge with no expertise just a decade before identifies a need, acquires a artillery plant and makes its own changes, develops versions to build initial experience then goes on to build different caliber guns including titanium and Steel versions of a light caliber gun and even develops a platform to carry it.

Then we have the white elephant PSU which through various acts of omission and commission (Manufacturing defects, Chinese parts) is not able to make a gun based on 40 year old technology inspite of having full access to the blueprints and drawings!!!

About the Screwdriver culture promoting BEML- the less written the better.

Kudos to Baba Kalyani and his team of engineers/technicians.
Prem Kumar
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Indeed - Baba Kalyani is an amazing man!

And he must have infinite patience dealing with our MoD and DG Artillery and their crazy requirements like "switch ATAGS back to hydraulic after 700 Km mountain trials" after having putting in so much slog! Most others would've flipped the middle finger and walked away.
Thakur_B
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

Not just artillery, they have taken up production of JVPC and are also vying for ARDE CQB carbine.
Pratyush
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

^^^^

Can this meet 814 nos MGS requirements.

Or a 52 calibre gun is a must have requirement for that program?
Aditya_V
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Quite Frankly, we need more 155mm, 52 cal is like 5th gen fighter, it needs specialized rounds, 39 cal are mud movers, we needs lots of 39 cal 155mm backed up with 52 cal Guns where we need the extra reach. 39 cal guns are more transportable in narrower mountain roads.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Ashokk »

Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 00833?s=20 ---> Defence Min Rajnath Singh unveils indigenous Multi-terrain Artillery Gun (MArG) 155–R Designed/Developed By Bharat Forge. World's first gun system with 155mm 39 caliber mounted on 4x4 HMV MArG 155- BR unveiled at BF, Pune, in the presence of IA Chief, General MM Naravane.
When do the trials start?
Vips
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

First let the final report of the 3rd winter trials in snowy conditions in Pokhran held in 2025 come, a decision will then be made if more summer trials in sweltering heat of Kargil are needed!!
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Barath »

Aditya_V wrote:Quite Frankly, we need more 155mm, 52 cal is like 5th gen fighter, it needs specialized rounds, 39 cal are mud movers, we needs lots of 39 cal 155mm backed up with 52 cal Guns where we need the extra reach. 39 cal guns are more transportable in narrower mountain roads.
What actually stops you from using the 155/39 caliber rounds in a 155/52 caliber weapon ?

As i understand, the barrel is the same dia except 2.48 m longer. If you want to take advantage of the longer barrel for greater range and precision you could do so. (Eg greater muzzle velocity, more deflagration of the charge)

I presume rounds are standardized and charges also modularized https://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/en/ ... /index.php

So if you don't care about the range, what prevents you using the 155/52 like a 155/39 ?

Yes, a longer barrel is tougher to maneuver in a truck mounted system. So stipulated.
Aditya_V
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

From Atag tests what we understand that the Shell Steel quality needs to be much better along with the quality of the propellant.

So basically you have to increase this across all 155mm guns, making it costlier and can't use existing shells.

Better to induct 155mm by 39, and then upgrade Barrels and FCR as and when the production of shells, propellants etc catch up.
konaseema
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by konaseema »

I am a newbie to this forum. Here is my question / suggestion on the unending sequence of trials on Indian made Artillery. Why should the Indian Army insist on a Artillery system that works in Plains, Desert, High Altitude and Extreme cold weather? Can't they have 2 versions of the same system that works in Hot plains and Cold High Altitude areas? This will enable the Armed forces to induct quicker and also work with the R&D or Manufacturer parallel on the next version or the next iteration.
Pratyush
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

konaseema wrote:I am a newbie to this forum.

Snip....

.
This is based on the assumption that only technical short comings are effecting the equipment and not the malafide actions of bad actor's within the services and the MOD.

https://blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor ... your-firm/

The actions described are quite common within our babucracy and other organs of state
Manish_P
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Prem Kumar wrote:Indeed - Baba Kalyani is an amazing man!

And he must have infinite patience dealing with our MoD and DG Artillery and their crazy requirements like "switch ATAGS back to hydraulic after 700 Km mountain trials" after having putting in so much slog! Most others would've flipped the middle finger and walked away.
He is a very smart & astute business man as well and in it for the long haul. He is certainly not one to let years of hard investments go to waste.

Before reaching the stage of having to flip his finger, he might well try and set up his factories outside India and then try to sell his stuff to the indian political establishment/MOD/Millitary, while taking 'care' of the entrenched lobbies like how the firangs have been doing so far... and if he fails in that then he will do his best to sell to other countries..
Prem Kumar
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Medium Range Precision Kill System (MRPKS) specs released by the Army. Very precise definitions - I wish all GSQRs are like this. Both the intent, capability sought, current limitations etc are all spelled out well.

Falls into IDDM category - so it will be an ab-initio indigenous design

If this is realized, it will truly be a game-changer. Reminds me of the ground-launched SDB that Saab developed.

https://twitter.com/EkNashwar/status/14 ... 8897832962 ---> Indian Army statement of case for Medium-Range Precision Kill System (MRPKS).

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Pratyush
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

The approach is quite interesting.

Give it mid course data link along with NAG lock on after launch seekers and you have a NLOS ATGM.

Nicely enhances counter battery capacity of the army in the mountains. By reducing the need for a big gun and it's associated logistics requirements.

I am liking the way the Indian army is thinking.

They have not yet come completely to the light. But ray of light is quite bright.

PS; when they are speaking of in-service 2.5 ton vehicle. Are they refering to the TATA light truck, which is smaller than the stallion?
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Atmavik »

Vertical launch for a rocket. That is interesting
Kakkaji
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Kakkaji »

If the army is not happy with the Dhanush and ATAGS then, instead of rooting for the Athos, why don't they just buy the Bharat-52. It is made by the same Indian manufacturer Bharat Forge, and the IP is with Bharat Forge in India? What were the results of all the tests that were conducted on Bharat-52? There was no news about them.

Baba Kalyani had said that, if the IA orders the Bharat-52, he can deliver 2 guns per week or something like that.
ramana
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Prem Kumar, The RFI has many other pages. It will change mountain warfare fire power. Basically guided 122 mm missiles with 45 km range.
Prem Kumar
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Oh ok, found it and pasting the link to the full RFI here: https://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata ... Arty12.pdf

Skimmed through it quickly:

Its a loitering munition (like Harop), not an artillery shell or a rocket. So, its not like a ground-launched SDB either. One of the requirements is for a 2 hour loiter period, plus ability to abort & re-attack, human operator control in selecting targets etc.

40 Km range min-required. 60 Km desirable
5m accuracy min-required. 2m desirable

Not sure if it has a "return to base" requirement or if its more of a use-it or lose-it type weapon.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

If it has the ability to be re-tasked in flight. Then it should also have the ability to return to base.
Prem Kumar
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Pratyush wrote:If it has the ability to be re-tasked in flight. Then it should also have the ability to return to base.
Not necessarily. Return to base includes the ability to either land with wheels(which won't be an option for a loitering munition) or a parachute-recovery. If the munition is on a 1-way trip, these problems need not be solved

I don't recall "return to base" as a requirement in the RFI, but I only skimmed it.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

The document dosent specify a return to base.

But given the ability to be re-tasked in flight. It should not be a huge challenge.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by brar_w »

Prem Kumar wrote:Oh ok, found it and pasting the link to the full RFI here: https://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata ... Arty12.pdf

Skimmed through it quickly:

Its a loitering munition (like Harop), not an artillery shell or a rocket. So, its not like a ground-launched SDB either. One of the requirements is for a 2 hour loiter period, plus ability to abort & re-attack, human operator control in selecting targets etc.

40 Km range min-required. 60 Km desirable
5m accuracy min-required. 2m desirable

Not sure if it has a "return to base" requirement or if its more of a use-it or lose-it type weapon.
Sounds quite similar to the USMC Organic Precision Fires-Mounted requirement for an off the shelf system for its 4x4 light tactical vehicle that they're fielding in 2022.

https://ammunitionlogistics.com/2021/06 ... -m-system/

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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Vips »

I hope this works out as it will be a welcome addition to our planned rocket force and will fill a much needed and crucial need of having a very long range rocket strike capability. Otherwise as things stand today our rockets are outranged by not only the Chinese but by the Porkis too.

Pvt co developing 250-300km range guided rockets for India.
JSR Dynamics, the company founded by former vice chief of air staff Air Marshal (retd) Shirish Deo, is at an advanced stage of developing a guided rocket of 324 mm calibre. On completion of the project, it is expected to be the first ever weapon system of this kind in India under the above-300 mm caliber category.

It is billed to outperform the existing arsenal of similar systems with the forces, and also counter the A300 type of rockets with the Pakistani army. Currently, the Indian defence forces have the Russian Smerch rocket under this category. Smerch has a caliber of 300 mm.

The 324 mm rocket of JSR has been designed to have a larger caliber and a longer range, said Deo. The Smerch rockets with India are unguided weapons, he said.

The JSR rocket on the other hand is expected to have a range of 250 to 300km along with guided capacity, making it more precise on the target. The Smerch rocket has a range of around 100km. Deo says even with the advanced features there are plans to sell the rocket at a price lower than the current price of acquisition of other systems.

The design has been made and the guidance system would be ready soon. JSR is in talks with a European company to provide highly specific impulse propellent. If it works out, some of the units may be sent for filling. The warhead would be made by JSR.

The propellent gives a push to the rocket, and explosion is created by the warhead.

The rocket is being independently developed by JSR using its own funds and is not against any request for proposal by the defence forces. On completion, the company plans to put it up before the army for evaluation. The company is open for exports to friendly countries too, he said.

Once ready, the rockets are expected to be a game changer for the forces. This would also be the first of its kind of weapon designed and made in India, said Deo.

Work is under way in both private sector and defence public sector undertakings (DPSUs) for making the guided Pinaka rockets. However, Pinaka is of 224 mm caliber, and a shorter range. The guided Pinaka rockets have range of 70km. As against this, the conventional Pinaka can be fired upto 40km.

JSR Dynamics was formed by Deo after he retired from service. The current investment stands at Rs63 crore. “We believe in operating at rather low margins as profit is not the motive,” he said.

After the surface fired rockets, there are plans to make a variant which can be shot from fighter planes too.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

^ Saw this on Twitter too. Seems like a bunch of PR for that company - TOIlet paper & ET will carry paid articles as if they are news.

I wish them Godspeed but I will believe it when I see it
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Thakur_B »

JSR was the same company that pitched two stand off munitions designs a few aero India back. Their design has been picked up by some other firm for development I believe.

Edit: Found it.

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Rakesh
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

Post by Rakesh »

Thakur_B wrote:JSR was the same company that pitched two stand off munitions designs a few aero India back. Their design has been picked up by some other firm for development I believe.

Edit: Found it.
Thakur-ji, can you please quote the source of the image?
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