Just 150 ??? I thought the need was for some 850 +Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/158 ... m64gCph55w --->
Alright, let me share some unequivocally 'good' news with you:
1. The tender for import of 155 mm/52 caliber howitzers has been scrapped with the file being closed.
2. Internal Army modalities for the procurement of 150 indigenous ATAGS howitzer units have been fast-tracked.
Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
150 is the first batch. More will be ordered now that the import has been cancelled.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Towed artillery requirement is for 1,580 units. Or was. The whole of it will come from in-house production. No imports. BTW, I say 'was' because the break-up between Self Propelled (Tracked), Towed, and Mounted Gun System (MGS) might get rejiggled given the operational scenario and available artillery options. Frankly, at this stage, we're spoiled for options!Atmavik wrote:Just 150 ??? I thought the need was for some 850 +Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/158 ... m64gCph55w --->
Alright, let me share some unequivocally 'good' news with you:
1. The tender for import of 155 mm/52 caliber howitzers has been scrapped with the file being closed.
2. Internal Army modalities for the procurement of 150 indigenous ATAGS howitzer units have been fast-tracked.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
In some place, BAE was saying the production line has stopped and needs US Army permission to re-start as they are a co-owner of the design or some such thing.Aditya_V wrote:And M777s?
I would hope Kalyani light howitzer is picked to augment the M-777 batteries.
They also make a steel version that costs 1/8 of a Titanium M-777.
Need to think of how to deploy more guns and not the expensive light gun and Chinook to airlift it along LAC.
Another thing is IA is standardizing on the 155mm shell which is traditionally a medium caliber.
The way to see it is the field artillery will have the Sharang and Dhanush 45 caliber guns.
The medium and heavy will have the ATAGS as it has a longer range.
We should not be hung up on the weight of the shell but on the range.
Then we have the Pinaka series to augment the long-range artillery.
Hopefully, the guided and electronic fuzes will be produced in quantity to make the artillery fire more effective.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Rohit have you seen the table of rounds for grades of destruction in British Artillery practice?
I will try to find it.
It's all a factor of the fuze reliability.
I will try to find it.
It's all a factor of the fuze reliability.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Holy smokes!!
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/co ... 027629.ece
Kalyani Group eyes world’s largest artillery manufacturing facility in India. By 2025, it can produce 1 gun per day
This is exactly the kind of thinking that helped the US win WW2.
Unleash the beast!
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/co ... 027629.ece
Kalyani Group eyes world’s largest artillery manufacturing facility in India. By 2025, it can produce 1 gun per day
This is exactly the kind of thinking that helped the US win WW2.
Unleash the beast!
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
^^^I have saying this repeatedly on Twitter - India is sitting on a cusp of technology and manufacturing revolution in defense sector. Indian Army can shape up to match the Chinese Army in almost all departments (if not in quantity, at least in quality) through domestic production. These domestic products will vary from 100% indigenous products to those coming from JVs with foreign firms. But all can be done here. Its a matter of this government loosening the purse strings. Simple.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Prem, nice to see you back!Prem Kumar wrote:Holy smokes!!
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/co ... 027629.ece
Kalyani Group eyes world’s largest artillery manufacturing facility in India. By 2025, it can produce 1 gun per day
This is exactly the kind of thinking that helped the US win WW2.
Unleash the beast!
And thanks for this news item. Absolutely fantastic news. Baba Kalyani is a force to reckon with. Truly amazing.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Even in quantity. India has a large/well educated production planning workforce. We do not have properly educated floor technicians. Can retired Army jawans be roped into new factories?rohitvats wrote:Indian Army can shape up to match the Chinese Army in almost all departments (if not in quantity, at least in quality) through domestic production.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Baba Kalyani per link posted by Prem:
The group currently produces about six guns in 30 days at present. “The capital investment has already been done. Now we need to increase the volumes,” said Kalyani at the DefExpo 2022 at Gandhinagar on Tuesday.
Bharat Forge Limited announced a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with General Atomics, US, to collaborate on a Lithium-Ion Battery System for naval platforms/submarines to address the requirements of the Indian Navy. Under the terms of the MOU, Bharat Forge and General Atomics’ Electromagnetic Systems Group (GA-EMS) will partner with each other in the area of permanent magnet motors. GA is a market leader for in-service Li-Ion Battery solutions for naval platforms/submarines and and our partnership with General Atomics is a firm step in the direction to develop Make in India solutions for Indian Navy and setting up a strong defence technology and manufacturing vertical within India,” Kalyani said. Scott Forney, president of GA-EMS, said, “Our Li-Ion battery system has been developed after 10 years of rigorous R&D. Instead of the usual ‘fault prevention’, our design philosophy is based on assuming a fault and requiring fault containment’, which has made our system extremely safe and reliable.”
The group currently produces about six guns in 30 days at present. “The capital investment has already been done. Now we need to increase the volumes,” said Kalyani at the DefExpo 2022 at Gandhinagar on Tuesday.
Bharat Forge Limited announced a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with General Atomics, US, to collaborate on a Lithium-Ion Battery System for naval platforms/submarines to address the requirements of the Indian Navy. Under the terms of the MOU, Bharat Forge and General Atomics’ Electromagnetic Systems Group (GA-EMS) will partner with each other in the area of permanent magnet motors. GA is a market leader for in-service Li-Ion Battery solutions for naval platforms/submarines and and our partnership with General Atomics is a firm step in the direction to develop Make in India solutions for Indian Navy and setting up a strong defence technology and manufacturing vertical within India,” Kalyani said. Scott Forney, president of GA-EMS, said, “Our Li-Ion battery system has been developed after 10 years of rigorous R&D. Instead of the usual ‘fault prevention’, our design philosophy is based on assuming a fault and requiring fault containment’, which has made our system extremely safe and reliable.”
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Its not about quantity of workers it is about the size of the armed forces.Vayutuvan wrote:Even in quantity. India has a large/well educated production planning workforce. We do not have properly educated floor technicians. Can retired Army jawans be roped into new factories?rohitvats wrote:Indian Army can shape up to match the Chinese Army in almost all departments (if not in quantity, at least in quality) through domestic production.
We can declare martial law and mandate that we have one ARty piece manufactured per day but can the army absorb that unless we think it is a good idea that we only have arty in the armed forces!
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Thanks. Had a self-imposed internet vanavas, just to see if I can do it. Now, back due to BRF's Gargantua-like gravity pull, which slows time. What feels like 1 hour here is 5 days in the outside worldRakesh wrote: Prem, nice to see you back!
And thanks for this news item. Absolutely fantastic news. Baba Kalyani is a force to reckon with. Truly amazing.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Dhanush 155MM 52 Cal Howitzer unveiled for the first time at Defense Expo 2022.
Overall weight - less then 14 tons and comes with barrel retraction feature to facilitate easier towed-transportation in mountain areas.
Overall weight - less then 14 tons and comes with barrel retraction feature to facilitate easier towed-transportation in mountain areas.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
3000+ as outlined in the IA’s artillery plansAtmavik wrote:Just 150 ??? I thought the need was for some 850 +Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/158 ... m64gCph55w --->
Alright, let me share some unequivocally 'good' news with you:
1. The tender for import of 155 mm/52 caliber howitzers has been scrapped with the file being closed.
2. Internal Army modalities for the procurement of 150 indigenous ATAGS howitzer units have been fast-tracked.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
It’s not just a question of purse strings though. How many times have we seen the services return unspent to the exchequer at the end of a FY? The endless train and paper shuffling procurement process needs to end. This defence industry will never get built up without having significant demand at homerohitvats wrote:^^^I have saying this repeatedly on Twitter - India is sitting on a cusp of technology and manufacturing revolution in defense sector. Indian Army can shape up to match the Chinese Army in almost all departments (if not in quantity, at least in quality) through domestic production. These domestic products will vary from 100% indigenous products to those coming from JVs with foreign firms. But all can be done here. Its a matter of this government loosening the purse strings. Simple.
1 unit a day is absurd for an army that planned to induct 114 Dhanush-45 over 3-5 years? Even now they are only considering 150 ATAGS vs a requirement of 1500-3000 towed pieces
Listen to what private players will openly say and they will tell you the lack of orders and serious numbers is the limiting factor now, NOT R&D/production (that the armed forces have used as an excuse for years )
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Twitter abuzz with news: Kalyani bags an export order worth $155 Million to supply artillery guns to a non-conflict-zone country (wonder who)?
Quite amazing: a foreign customer trusts our product while IA will order 2 more rounds of "hot & high, cold & low, smile & bend-over" series of tests
Quite amazing: a foreign customer trusts our product while IA will order 2 more rounds of "hot & high, cold & low, smile & bend-over" series of tests
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
KSAPrem Kumar wrote:Twitter abuzz with news: Kalyani bags an export order worth $155 Million to supply artillery guns to a non-conflict-zone country (wonder who)?
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
That's what I read in the Twitter chirps as well. Good diplomacy at work, combined with a world-class product and Modi's Atmanirbhar push. Phenomenal news all around!
At say $2 Million a pop, that's probably an order of 75 units. A 3 year fulfillment implies a production rate of 1 unit every 2 weeks. Easily do'able for Kalyani. They have plans to churn out 1 a day by 2025.
At say $2 Million a pop, that's probably an order of 75 units. A 3 year fulfillment implies a production rate of 1 unit every 2 weeks. Easily do'able for Kalyani. They have plans to churn out 1 a day by 2025.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Awarded $155.50mn export order for 155mm artillery guns: Bharat Forge
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 114715.ece
November 09, 2022
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 114715.ece
November 09, 2022
Pune-based Bharat Forge Limited announced on November 9 that it has won a $155.50mn export order for one of its 155mm artillery gun platform to be executed in three years.
Company officials said at the Expo that they have secured export orders for the Kalyani-M4 vehicles.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Dhanush/ATAG's/Pinaka's laying down a carpet of fire for hours on a particular area - then Arjun's/Bhism's moving in to clear out any dugouts and left-over armors - followed by mechanised infantry in Abhay's supported by Namica's and Tunguska and Pantisir equivalents providing protection from helis and UAV's - all the while a JStar keeping an eye on the battle field and Prachand's/Rudra's providing close air-support and IFG's providing direct and in-direct artillery support for clearing any leftover MMG/LMG nests.
What a dream !!
What a dream !!
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
https://twitter.com/SandeepUnnithan/sta ... IZPaurdHGA ---> The @BharatForgeLtd export breakthrough is largely the triumph of one man - the CMD Baba Kalyani. He invested in plant and machinery over a decade ago with no orders in sight. But never gave up. @MGArun1 captures his journey.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
The IA is fast tracking it so hard that KSA order the guns from Kalyani.Rakesh wrote: https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/158 ... m64gCph55w --->
Alright, let me share some unequivocally 'good' news with you:
1. The tender for import of 155 mm/52 caliber howitzers has been scrapped with the file being closed.
2. Internal Army modalities for the procurement of 150 indigenous ATAGS howitzer units have been fast-tracked.
All these fast-track news is bull shit.
Nothing moves in Delhi unless there is an invasion.
The reason is every nose picker babu can put an objection on the sidelines like SC judges observations and delay procurement.
years after they retire we find the wife's nephew is an arms agent for the tires of the imported gun.
Things won't change. Same rascals will still be in power and cant be removed.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Ramana sir that is unusual coming from you.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
It's only an acknowledgement of the reality of the Indian babucracy.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
People are losing patience because of the "in your face" corruption and step-motherly treatment of indigenous products. This is in spite of the Atmanirbharta diktat coming from the PM himself
Frankly, even the no-import list is starting to look like a joke with the items being so specific in nature (& sometimes already indigenized) that they can prepare a list of 100 such items for the next 100 years, while keeping the gravy train going. The MoD is pulling the wool over the RM/PM eyes
Some divisions in the Armed Forces have embraced local options well (like orders for indigenous drones). But the sword arms are filled with Chandigarh Lobby middlemen
Frankly, even the no-import list is starting to look like a joke with the items being so specific in nature (& sometimes already indigenized) that they can prepare a list of 100 such items for the next 100 years, while keeping the gravy train going. The MoD is pulling the wool over the RM/PM eyes
Some divisions in the Armed Forces have embraced local options well (like orders for indigenous drones). But the sword arms are filled with Chandigarh Lobby middlemen
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
so the country is armenia. but its a conflict zone. What am I missing here?
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
no one can fool modi, he is too good to be fooled by MoD. Right now his priorities are different.Prem Kumar wrote:The MoD is pulling the wool over the RM/PM eyes
Some divisions in the Armed Forces have embraced local options well (like orders for indigenous drones). But the sword arms are filled with Chandigarh Lobby middlemen
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
My dad retired as a senior Babu in 2016. He has been very clear that the so called civil services have to be brought in control. If the nation is to progress.
In 2014, he was clear that the civil services will completely screw Modi's agenda.
Modi's comment post 2019 victory about not letting the bureaucrats trip him over the next 5 years. The way they did from 2014. Made me understand my dad's fears.
In 2014, he was clear that the civil services will completely screw Modi's agenda.
Modi's comment post 2019 victory about not letting the bureaucrats trip him over the next 5 years. The way they did from 2014. Made me understand my dad's fears.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
WRT, different priorities for Modi. PRC, is sitting on the borders. What can be more urgent than that.
Yet the MOD is moriboud despite having the best RM for the last nearly few years.
Yet the MOD is moriboud despite having the best RM for the last nearly few years.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Me no expert. So i have some basic queries.
We have / will have several type of 155 mm guns like K9, ATAGs, MGS, Dhanush etc.
Will they be able to use the same shells and same charges ?
Will there be different type of shells like air-burst, illuminating, smoke ?
Any types of "armour piercing" or "concrete piercing" shell to destroy say concrete bunkers ?
Shell with base bleed units
We have / will have several type of 155 mm guns like K9, ATAGs, MGS, Dhanush etc.
Will they be able to use the same shells and same charges ?
Will there be different type of shells like air-burst, illuminating, smoke ?
Any types of "armour piercing" or "concrete piercing" shell to destroy say concrete bunkers ?
Shell with base bleed units
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
The will fire the same shells and use the same charges.
They will all be able to use ERFB-BB shells.
IIRC, 155 mm armour piercing shells and concrete piercing shells don't exist.
For all others types the high explosive shells should do the job.
They will all be able to use ERFB-BB shells.
IIRC, 155 mm armour piercing shells and concrete piercing shells don't exist.
For all others types the high explosive shells should do the job.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
ThanksPratyush wrote:The will fire the same shells and use the same charges.
They will all be able to use ERFB-BB shells.
IIRC, 155 mm armour piercing shells and concrete piercing shells don't exist.
For all others types the high explosive shells should do the job.
Till date I too have never heard of 155 mm "armour piercing shells and concrete piercing shells". Aren't they required for some specific applications like say bunker busting or anti-tank ?
Just thinking aloud
How would an arty battery deal with a group of modern tanks ?
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
What is needed urgently are IRNSS based precision guided shells like Excalibur. Also rocket assisted projectiles, till the new ramjet propelled tech takes shape.
Do we have only 1 manufacturing facility for the 155mm shells? The one setup at Nalanda in Bihar or are there any other facilities? if not, we should start involving the private sector companies like solar industries etc. to also start manufacturing 155mm arty shells, as well.
Do we have only 1 manufacturing facility for the 155mm shells? The one setup at Nalanda in Bihar or are there any other facilities? if not, we should start involving the private sector companies like solar industries etc. to also start manufacturing 155mm arty shells, as well.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
anti-armour 155mm shells have been developed and are being used in Ukraine.Kersi wrote:ThanksPratyush wrote:The will fire the same shells and use the same charges.
They will all be able to use ERFB-BB shells.
IIRC, 155 mm armour piercing shells and concrete piercing shells don't exist.
For all others types the high explosive shells should do the job.
Till date I too have never heard of 155 mm "armour piercing shells and concrete piercing shells". Aren't they required for some specific applications like say bunker busting or anti-tank ?
Just thinking aloud
How would an arty battery deal with a group of modern tanks ?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambl ... ery-round/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors/Nexter_Bonus
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambl ... ery-round/
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Haresh,
I have been aware of the Smart and the SADRAM for some time. But the specific reason why I didn't address those rounds is because they are essentially Cargo projectiles and not unitary rounds.
I should have been more clear about what I had been posting.
I have been aware of the Smart and the SADRAM for some time. But the specific reason why I didn't address those rounds is because they are essentially Cargo projectiles and not unitary rounds.
I should have been more clear about what I had been posting.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
1) All use same shell. Earlier used M107 and now ERFB shells. These are made by OFB.Kersi wrote:Me no expert. So i have some basic queries.
We have / will have several type of 155 mm guns like K9, ATAGs, MGS, Dhanush etc.
1) Will they be able to use the same shells and same charges ?
2) Will there be different type of shells like air-burst, illuminating, smoke ?
3) Any types of "armour piercing" or "concrete piercing" shell to destroy say concrete bunkers ?
4) Shell with base bleed units
2) Air burst is fuze related. Illuminating and smoke are special rounds.
3) Accurate hit on concrete bunker with time delay is used to destroy bunkers. No special shell. For armor piercing no special shell. But cargo shells with shaped charges are there.
4) ERFB shell have a small rocket which lights and reduces base drag which increases the range.
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Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
For the Kalyani export order, who will provide the shells? Does anyone in India make 155 mm shells other than the OFB (or) will the Kalyani gun work with any 155mm shells that have been imported/stocked by Armenia
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
The gun will use any NATO compatible rounds available to it.
As such Armenia can procure from any supplier.
But it will be prudent for them to be able to source the rounds either domestically or from India.
As such Armenia can procure from any supplier.
But it will be prudent for them to be able to source the rounds either domestically or from India.
Re: Artillery Corps: News & Discussion
Especially the OFB manufactured rounds Pratyush Sir?