Artillery Corps: News & Discussion

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 21 Dec 2022 15:54

ramana wrote:ATAGS has its uses and is not a waste of time.
Only for the critics.

Anything less than 1000+ ATAGS ordered makes the entire effort a waste of time. All this energy and cost just for ~150 guns for whatever niche role the IA seems it suitable for?

This is firmly Arjun 2.0, the excuses used against it are almost identical (weight, cost per unit etc) and now they’ve opened the door to imports again expect the hit pieces to start flowing, Arjun went from a decent system to the world’s worst tank as declared by many articles/blogs explicitly.

The cynics were told the ATAGS had turned the corner and things were changing, and yet I could’ve predicted this exact outcome 7 years back when ATAGS was just on the drawing board.

On top of all this the bigger picture is they are putting ATAGS to the side and looking for their favoured imported toys but this is just an RFI, the RFI—>RFP—>contract—> delivery circus is easily another 10 years lost so the 1980s era arty plans are still just a pipe dream.

All Indian generals seem interested in doing for all 3 services is floating these RFIs, I can only speculate as to who benefits from that…..

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 21 Dec 2022 16:17

Before going down the weight/mobility rabbit hole I recommend everyone watch this again:

https://youtu.be/rszgi8eUffs

-ATAGS has already been tested in hills/mountains with IN SERVICE GTVs (new gen super stallions)
-to overcome mobility issues they have employed a TECHNOLOGICAL solution (steered caster wheels with programmable terrain sensitive modes)

IA wants to play the same games- weight/strategic mobility but as usual their demands are based on nothing other than a desire for foreign toys

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 21 Dec 2022 16:23

ks_sachin wrote:Pratyush

On your post regarding axels etc of ATAGS, bear in mind the Arty will deploy guns based on doctrine and suitability. We have multiple options now.

ULH for really tricky spots
The Dhanush in its previous FH77B avatar has proved itself in the mountains
I dont see ATAGS deployed in all mountain areas. Its range is an huge asset in the plains.

JMT am no expert

We have no options. Not any more. Perhaps we never did.

Hope is a waste of emotions.

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 21 Dec 2022 17:01

Pratyush wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Pratyush

On your post regarding axels etc of ATAGS, bear in mind the Arty will deploy guns based on doctrine and suitability. We have multiple options now.

ULH for really tricky spots
The Dhanush in its previous FH77B avatar has proved itself in the mountains
I dont see ATAGS deployed in all mountain areas. Its range is an huge asset in the plains.

JMT am no expert
We have no options. Not any more. Perhaps we never did.

Hope is a waste of emotions.

So many options and yet the 1980 FH-77Bs are still going strong and the IA hasn’t inducted any towed 155/52 guns……ever?

Maybe this is the issue- so many options, so many ways to please outside interests. Necessity is the mother of invention.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 21 Dec 2022 20:40

As Army puts in request for towed artillery guns, Israeli ATHOS is back in race for mega deal

In its request, Army specifies weight of gun system should preferably be less than 15 tons. This brings Israeli firm Elbit in reckoning as indigenous ATAGs are well over 18 tons.

https://theprint.in/defence/as-army-put ... l/1274814/

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 21 Dec 2022 21:19

^^ If ATAGS was 15 tons, the RFP would have been reworked to specify not more than 12 tons. Hope Modi is watching this circus of Generals and their determination to thwart India from building its own military industrial complex.

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 21 Dec 2022 22:06

sanjayc wrote:^^ If ATAGS was 15 tons, the RFP would have been reworked to specify not more than 12 tons. Hope Modi is watching this circus of Generals and their determination to thwart India from building its own military industrial complex.

It would’ve been something like single axle only or 23L chamber size max (I remember some of the ‘retired community’ trying to cast doubt on the ATAGS because of the larger chamber)

Again, it’s all so predictable, I knew it would go this way from the start hence I never got too excited about ATAGS

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 21 Dec 2022 22:44

Some thoughts:

1) The gun gets heavier as the caliber and chamber size goes up is something that cannot be changed. Not just the barrel and chamber, but recoil management, towing and APU all get heavier as need for flinging shells gets longer

2) Gen Shankar gave a nice overview of “accurate vs precise” requirements for artillery with respect to range increases. According to his definitions, accurate is good enough to stop an infantry or armored assault at max range. Accurate can be very effective upto 250m CEP, if we are talking about a full barrage from multiple guns over minutes. Precision is needed for taking out fast-relocatable targets or situations that need own gun to relocate fast to escape counter fire, even from other platforms like helicopters or MBRLS. Both are needed for India’s theatres, more the first one for infantry heavy mountain theaters. Expeditionary forces like US ones need the precision more for reducing stress on their globe spanning logistics. So in Indian situation, there is no reason to wait till local PGK kits make their appearances for attaining accuracy by ATAGS at full range. PGK somewhat bridge the gap between accurate (<250 CEP) and precise <10m CEP) in a cost effective manner

3) Most of discussions here seem to assume ATAGS was an end product alone, and not a program to take Indian artillery design and manufacturing expertise from FH77 lineage to next generation, while involving private sector from earliest stages. ATAGS explored and proofed several risky tech, including muzzle radars, 6-pack shell loaders, all electric drives, bigger chamber volumes, ballistic computers, networking and many things we will never hear or care about, but is significant to a networked war fighter. There is no reason why a sub-15 ton 52/45 caliber cannot absorb those new tech the same way LCA programs’ various technologies and subsystems were used for fleetwide upgrades

4) Having just one type of system or one production contractor is not a good idea from a strategic view point. The bean counter argument that prevailed in US about huge orders for standardized multi-role systems (shornet, 777, ATF etc) to reduce costs will prove expensive if a fundamental flaw or change in situation (technical, operational or tactical) is found after thousand of a particular systems got ordered. Hence small to medium size tranches for weapon systems is a good idea to proof it.

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 21 Dec 2022 23:01

hnair wrote:Some thoughts:

Sorry but this is pure hope

So out of nowhere ATAGS is now a technology demonstrator?

If they order the Dhanush 52/ATHOS/TRAJAN there’s ZERO link to ATAGS, and the Bharat-52 has only very loose association with the ATAGS

At the end of the day this is just another sideways move, an RFI this late in the day when the shortfall for guns is in the 1000s. The IA has still yet to induct a towed 155/52 in its entire existence, the only guns it has actually inducted post 1999 are 145 M777, 100 K9 and 20(?) Dhanush-45

Can have infinite options but you have to actually place orders at some point

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 21 Dec 2022 23:11

KSingh, can you not quote long posts ? Thanks

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 21 Dec 2022 23:58

Bharat 52 and Dhanush 52, I don’t think have BITE for maintenance which is mandatory required for RFI.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 22 Dec 2022 00:04

From the Print & its linked articles:

Issued 20 December, the RFI notes that the weight of the gun system “be preferably less than 15 tons”

--> "preferably"

The 155mm x 52 caliber towed artillery gun figured in the first negative list of defence imports. While the embargo was to kick in from December 2020, the cut-off date for this specialised gun was subsequently changed to December 2021.

--> 155mm x 52 cal is in the negative import list

But, a rule was brought in which allowed armed forces to import defence equipment in certain circumstances even if it figures in the negative import list.

--> What is this so-called rule?

The rule

It added that specific cases for import could be taken up in certain circumstances based on the committee’s recommendation.

This would include scenarios where domestic industry was unable to supply equipment in the stipulated time frame or quantity, “or where there are inadequacies in the equipment affecting the safety of troops, or in case of any other technical issues such as no valid response to RFP (Request for Proposal) etc,” the notification said.

--> I don't think any of these conditions apply to the 155 x 52 artillery purchase

As reported by ThePrint, Elbit has actually offered to manufacture the guns in India with 70 per cent indigenous content.

--> given that Make-I actually stipulates only 50% indigenous content, Israel might have well written the Make-I stipulations

The Israeli gun made it to the negative list because the DRDO was working on an indigenous version of towed 155 mm/52 calibre howitzer – ATAGS.

--> Now we know why the deal has not moved forward and things are back to RFI (after finding numerous nitpicks with the ATAGS)

All these shenanigans, while our jawans are face-to-face with China everyday!

Lets see who the RFI is sent to? If its even sent to Athos, then the conclusion is that IDDM, Make-I and Negative Import Lists are a farce! Because when you IDDM/Make-I, where is the need for a "foreign partner"? You may have a few imported components, but the fundamental gun, its design and the bulk of its components must be indigenous.

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 22 Dec 2022 00:11

CMon Gyan Saar, the BITE should not be a deal breaker for ordering desi guns. Moreover don't know about OFB but Kalyani Group would be very much committed to provide BITE in near future if guns are ordered now.

IMHO Baba Kalyani had waited for too long ... he should be awarded handsomely for his efforts at Artillery Guns.

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 22 Dec 2022 00:24

You cannot hold a competition and just say no we wont buy it as we now have an indigenous alternative. ATHOS-Kalyani offering won the competition. We have to respect that. India has always respected and followed thru on such things unless there was malice involved.

Maybe that is the real problem with DRDO on how it works for the Army - Army issues RFP - DRDO wakes up to come up with a proposal as they think an indigenous alternative is possible in the procurement timeframe - Army wants a hedge and competition happens - DRDO comes along and says that we have a working indigenous one and dont buy foreign - Army has declared a winner for the competition and now we are stuck.

IGMDP worked proactively. LCA was forward looking enough to eventually get an order. Same with Navy. Maybe we need to do the same with the army needs as well.

IMO - all this is due to we sitting on Bofors ToT for decades before producing it indigenously and proving it in the field. We cannot blame Army for that!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Dec 2022 00:30

KSingh wrote:
ramana wrote:ATAGS has its uses and is not a waste of time.
Only for the critics.
Anything less than 1000+ ATAGS ordered makes the entire effort a waste of time. All this energy and cost just for ~150 guns for whatever niche role the IA seems it suitable for?

This is firmly Arjun 2.0, the excuses used against it are almost identical (weight, cost per unit etc) and now they’ve opened the door to imports again expect the hit pieces to start flowing, Arjun went from a decent system to the world’s worst tank as declared by many articles/blogs explicitly.

The cynics were told the ATAGS had turned the corner and things were changing, and yet I could’ve predicted this exact outcome 7 years back when ATAGS was just on the drawing board.

On top of all this the bigger picture is they are putting ATAGS to the side and looking for their favoured imported toys but this is just an RFI, the RFI—>RFP—>contract—> delivery circus is easily another 10 years lost so the 1980s era arty plans are still just a pipe dream.

All Indian generals seem interested in doing for all 3 services is floating these RFIs, I can only speculate as to who benefits from that…..

Plan for ATAGS is 150+300+300+300= 1050
So your first requirement is over. The rest is opinion.
My opinion is based on the RFI.
This is the choice between the 23-liter chamber models: Bharat 52 and OFB 52.
Both weigh less than 15 tons.
And RFI clearly says Indian supplier.

Frankly am tired of rants being passed on as facts.
I can say without contradiction I have followed Indian artillery development for ages and have forgotten more than what many know here.
IOW I can claim expertise.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Dec 2022 00:32

hnair wrote:KSingh, can you not quote long posts ? Thanks

hnair, No need for that. We need context here. So please.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Dec 2022 00:34

Gyan wrote:Bharat 52 and Dhanush 52, I don’t think have BITE for maintenance which is mandatory required for RFI.

BITE is Built In Test for the electronics and is a definite must.

For all, we know it's already there in those two models.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Dec 2022 00:38

Prem There is a requirement for two guns. ATAGS 25 liter chamber and the 23 liter chamber.
The first one is going through production setup.
The 23 liter model has to be chosen by the competition between the two Indian guns Bharat -2 and OFB.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Dec 2022 00:43

Pratyush, You did well thinking about the gun carriage aspects.
Now think about the charges required for the ATAGS and the other guns.
Anyway, why are we discussing third-level issues?
The Army is paid to do the job as directed by the govt.
And govt are not interested in imports.
Unless you know more than the govt.
We need to end the discussion right here.
Until new info turns up.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 22 Dec 2022 01:58

ramana wrote: hnair, No need for that. We need context here. So please.

We need less of quote every complete post in this age of phone browsing. The thread provides the context

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 22 Dec 2022 02:32

V_Raman wrote:You cannot hold a competition and just say no we wont buy it as we now have an indigenous alternative. ATHOS-Kalyani offering won the competition. We have to respect that. India has always respected and followed thru on such things unless there was malice involved.

When it comes to issues of national security, respecting commercial contracts should be last on the list. Look at it from another angle. If Pakistan had enough money, Elbit would sell Athos to them. Just like the french selling Subs to pakistan. Sticking to India is a purely commercial decision for them.

Not sticking with them should be a purely national security decision for us.

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 22 Dec 2022 05:28

V_Raman wrote:You cannot hold a competition and just say no we wont buy it as we now have an indigenous alternative. ATHOS-Kalyani offering won the competition. We have to respect that. India has always respected and followed thru on such things unless there was malice involved.

Maybe that is the real problem with DRDO on how it works for the Army - Army issues RFP - DRDO wakes up to come up with a proposal as they think an indigenous alternative is possible in the procurement timeframe - Army wants a hedge and competition happens - DRDO comes along and says that we have a working indigenous one and dont buy foreign - Army has declared a winner for the competition and now we are stuck.

IGMDP worked proactively. LCA was forward looking enough to eventually get an order. Same with Navy. Maybe we need to do the same with the army needs as well.

IMO - all this is due to we sitting on Bofors ToT for decades before producing it indigenously and proving it in the field. We cannot blame Army for that!

Firstly when did this happen? (ATHOS win)

Secondly india does this all the time- Black shark HWT, AW101, Rafale/MMRCA etc etc

And it’s all well and good to take the moral high ground but it’s 2022 and what you’re proposing is that they ignore the ATAGS that is fully developed and offers world class performance and an imported system gets 1000s of orders

This is how you build up an MIC? Anyway that is beyond reach now, this saga proves india won’t make that jump

KSingh · Post by **KSingh** » 22 Dec 2022 05:30

ramana wrote:
KSingh wrote: Anything less than 1000+ ATAGS ordered makes the entire effort a waste of time. All this energy and cost just for ~150 guns for whatever niche role the IA seems it suitable for?

This is firmly Arjun 2.0, the excuses used against it are almost identical (weight, cost per unit etc) and now they’ve opened the door to imports again expect the hit pieces to start flowing, Arjun went from a decent system to the world’s worst tank as declared by many articles/blogs explicitly.

The cynics were told the ATAGS had turned the corner and things were changing, and yet I could’ve predicted this exact outcome 7 years back when ATAGS was just on the drawing board.

On top of all this the bigger picture is they are putting ATAGS to the side and looking for their favoured imported toys but this is just an RFI, the RFI—>RFP—>contract—> delivery circus is easily another 10 years lost so the 1980s era arty plans are still just a pipe dream.

All Indian generals seem interested in doing for all 3 services is floating these RFIs, I can only speculate as to who benefits from that…..
Plan for ATAGS is 150+300+300+300= 1050
So your first requirement is over. The rest is opinion.
My opinion is based on the RFI.
This is the choice between the 23-liter chamber models: Bharat 52 and OFB 52.
Both weigh less than 15 tons.
And RFI clearly says Indian supplier.

Frankly am tired of rants being passed on as facts.
I can say without contradiction I have followed Indian artillery development for ages and have forgotten more than what many know here.
IOW I can claim expertise.

Where exactly is this 150+300…. Plan outlined? I’ve never seen this articulated

‘Indian supplier’= foreign product assembled in India

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 22 Dec 2022 06:42

KSingh wrote:
Firstly when did this happen? (ATHOS win)

Secondly india does this all the time- Black shark HWT, AW101, Rafale/MMRCA etc etc

And it’s all well and good to take the moral high ground but it’s 2022 and what you’re proposing is that they ignore the ATAGS that is fully developed and offers world class performance and an imported system gets 1000s of orders

This is how you build up an MIC? Anyway that is beyond reach now, this saga proves india won’t make that jump

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/israeli-f ... ompetition

Black Shark / AW101 - corruption charges. We bought Rafale eventually - we did not abandon it - there were no corruption charges.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Dec 2022 07:08

Avinandan wrote:CMon Gyan Saar, the BITE should not be a deal breaker for ordering desi guns. Moreover don't know about OFB but Kalyani Group would be very much committed to provide BITE in near future if guns are ordered now.

IMHO Baba Kalyani had waited for too long ... he should be awarded handsomely for his efforts at Artillery Guns.

Avinandan ji,

how difficult is it to write the code for a BITE....

there are plenty of he/she/they in India and bangalore, kerala in particular, who could do it with one hand tied behind their back and in poona where kalyani has a significant presence, there would be no dearth of such talent

the mere incorporation of a BITE should not be a limiting factor because including the OFB, any vendor worth their salt would already have the capability or could develop such a capability in house without too much effort or outlay of resources

A lot of DRDO systems have a BITE routinely incorporated and they have had these for the past so many years

ALL DRDO built radars and UAVs wake up only with a BITE doing its arcane sorcery, as do their missiles and other weapon related systems

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 22 Dec 2022 09:28

The idea was Dhanush 45 caliber for Mountains. Beyond 45 caliber, length of barrel is an issue for turning radius on mountain roads. Then very powerful ATAGS & 52 caliber where ever it can be taken to. This new RFI seems tailored for ATHOS

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 22 Dec 2022 09:30

And does no one want to discuss the orders for Guided Pinaka, Prahaar, Pralay which are ZERO inspite of their demonstrated effective use & importance in Ukraine war as also 80-90% indigenisation???

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 22 Dec 2022 11:12

Ramana: so you are saying that there are two 155 x 52 procurements that are being progressed in parallel - they differ based on the 25 vs 23 liter chamber?

Didn't know this. Lets see how this RFI progresses.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Dec 2022 11:16

Gyan wrote:The idea was Dhanush 45 caliber for Mountains. Beyond 45 caliber, length of barrel is an issue for turning radius on mountain roads. Then very powerful ATAGS & 52 caliber where ever it can be taken to. This new RFI seems tailored for ATHOS

It's quite funny that none of the RFI are ever tailored for indigenous system.

niran · Post by **niran** » 22 Dec 2022 13:17

KSingh wrote: Where exactly is this 150+300…. Plan outlined? I’ve never seen this articulated

‘Indian supplier’= foreign product assembled in India

are you MoD PM President or other stake holders manufacturer etc? no you are not, so, you need to move your behind and go find out the related documents yourself, till then stop your rabble rousing

niran · Post by **niran** » 22 Dec 2022 13:40

ramana wrote: Plan for ATAGS is 150+300+300+300= 1050
So your first requirement is over. The rest is opinion.
My opinion is based on the RFI.
This is the choice between the 23-liter chamber models: Bharat 52 and OFB 52.
Both weigh less than 15 tons.
And RFI clearly says Indian supplier.

Frankly am tired of rants being passed on as facts.
I can say without contradiction I have followed Indian artillery development for ages and have forgotten more than what many know here.
IOW I can claim expertise.

allow me to add some tid bit (and no, will not answer where did i get this so please)
Kalyani already has 3 versions 155/39 Ultra light weight gun heaviest among the 3 is steel version at 7 ton, Armenia bought steel version, lightest version is Titanium version at 5.3 ton, Titanium version has truck mounted version and 800 ordered by IA divided into 200 towed (80 or so deployed with Eastern theater command) 600 truck mounted meant for Western and northern theater command. Kalyani named this line as MAG line,

year 2021, 155/55 tube was developed from the Titanium line strengthening gun carriage etc towed version is <8 tons (somewhere about 7.56 ton) which is half of RFI's 15 ton proposal.

point is, ATAGS ordered (no ifs and but) Desi already have a gun fulfilling RFI, RFI clearly state Desi maal no import shimport, so gentle folks chill have whatever you all have and relax

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Dec 2022 13:43

Niran,

Have the RFP for the ATAGS been published?

If not, then why has this RFI been published with a preference for guns under 15 tons?

Do you know that the ATAGS is 18 tons?

If the objective is to give ATAGS a fair chance. Then why not issue an RFI with a weight criteria of 18 tons?

Is the Indian army going to acquire 3610 towed howitzers?

i.e

1) 1580 23 liter chamber.
2) 1580 25 liter chamber.
3) 450 Dhanush 45.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Dec 2022 13:54

Let's look at the Indian army's published requirements of 155 mm howitzers that is available in open source.

1) 1580 / 52 calibre howitzers.
2) 450 /45 calibre howitzers.
3) 39 calibre MGS. ( Unknown number)
4) 814 /52 Calibre MGS.
5) 145 + Unknown Numbers of indigenous ULH.
6) 100 K9 + additional 100 orders.

I don't see a space for two separate 155 /52 towed howitzers. From information available in open source.

niran · Post by **niran** » 22 Dec 2022 13:59

RoyG wrote:
ramana wrote:I got it. ATAGS has 25-liter chamber and no way can reduce the weight.
So the rest of the 2000-1050 guns will be the 23-liter chamber guns that can be under 15 tonnes.
And there are two to choose from : Dhanush 52 and Bharat 52
This is mental gymnastics.

What was the point of atags?

This is just a continuation of pathetic procurement practices and corruption. Everything from small arms to artillery and submarines is a mess.

range is the point of 25liter chamber ATAGS FYI, ATAGS is still world record holder with 48.7 km range firing Base Bleed shell for pratical purpose it takes 1 hour expressway drive to cover 40 km, 24 hours under favorable conditions for mechanized infantry to cover 50km 1minute 38 seconds @800 meter per second for ATAGS shell to travel 49 km, hope it clear you thoughts

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Dec 2022 14:06

Niran,

What was the point of ATAGS?

It's a question about the time and effort spent in developing the system. If it's going to discarded in favour of an imported gun.

It's not a question about the range of gun.

niran · Post by **niran** » 22 Dec 2022 14:10

Pratyush wrote:Niran,

Have the RFP for the ATAGS been published?

If not, then why has this RFI been published with a preference for guns under 15 tons?

Do you know that the ATAGS is 18 tons?

If the objective is to give ATAGS a fair chance. Then why not issue an RFI with a weight criteria of 18 tons?

Is the Indian army going to acquire 3610 towed howitzers?

i.e

1) 1580 23 liter chamber.
2) 1580 25 liter chamber.
3) 450 Dhanush 45.

seriously mods i request head banging smilies, latest RFI is not for ATAGS it is for different gun, ATAGS has been ordered per current and 5 years in future requirement. done and dusted
just as you have different flavors of Maggie noodles for different taste you have to have different guns for different purpose

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 22 Dec 2022 14:21

niran wrote:

[b]latest RFI is not for ATAGS it is for different gun[/b]

ATAGS has been ordered per current and 5 years in future requirement. done and dusted

just as you have different flavors of Maggie noodles for different taste you have to have different guns for different purpose

1) we know it's for seperate gun.

2) ATAGS ordered, can you please share a news link which explicitly stated xyz numbers of guns have been ordered to be delivered by such and such time.

3) Really, you mean to tell us that Indian requirment is so varied that it requires 2 seperate 155/52 towed howitzers?

4) Because wherever your so called lighter 155/52 howitzers can go. As will the ATAGS. So what is the point of this RFI exactly?

You are welcome to bang away your head all you need.

VickyAvinash · Post by **VickyAvinash** » 22 Dec 2022 16:13

niran wrote: Titanium version at 5.3 ton, Titanium version has truck mounted version and 800 ordered by IA divided into 200 towed (80 or so deployed with Eastern theater command) 600 truck mounted meant for Western and northern theater command. Kalyani named this line as MAG line,

Niran ji, no source needed, but if this is true then it's the best news in last 10 years. Did not know that Indian Army already ordered 800 ultra light guns of Kalyani. Aap ke muh mein dibba bar ke ghee shakkar.

saumitra_j · Post by **saumitra_j** » 22 Dec 2022 18:45

The last news that I had heard of for ATAGS was covered in CHINDU: Link Dated: October 1, 2022

Some key quotes from the article:

In the next five years, the Indian Army’s Regiment of Artillery would see major force accretion with the induction of several guns, including indigenous ones. These include the Dhanush, Sharang, M777 Ultra Light Howitzer (ULH), additional K9-Vajra howitzers and the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS).

One regiment of the indigenous Dhanush artillery systems, developed based on the Swedish Bofors guns, has been inducted and operationalised in high altitude area along the Northern Borders after extensive validation. By March 2023, the Army should receive 18 guns to form the second Dhanush regiment, the source said.

On the Sharang guns, the up-gunned 130mm artillery guns to 155mm, 45 calibre guns, three regiments have been operationalised so far with the 4th regiment in process. Three Sharang regiments are expected to be delivered per year and 15 artillery regiments are to be equipped with Sharang. So, it should be done in five years,

On the ATAGS system which has completed validation trials in May, officials said they are fast-tracking the remaining process for quicker induction. Following this, Electromagnetic Interference/ Electromagnetic Compatibility ( EMI/ EMC) trials were completed, followed by maintainability trials by the Corps of Electronics and Mechanical Engineers, the source explained.

Currently, the Director General Quality Assurance (DGQA) evaluation is under way which includes environmental tests. They are being concurrently to shorten the evaluation and should be completed in another two months, the source said after which the preliminary requirements would be converted to General Staff Quality Requirements (GSQR) and commercial bids will be sought. This would be followed by cost negotiations and the initial order for 150 guns would be split between the Lowest bidder (L1) and the second (L2) in 70:30 ratio, the source added.

Bottom line - it is being systematically and thoroughly tested and the process towards induction is ongoing. We will need to remain patient. I guess Niran sir has already mentioned as the deal being done and dusted, but the formal orders will come post the above steps.

niran · Post by **niran** » 22 Dec 2022 18:48

Pratyush wrote:
niran wrote:

[b]latest RFI is not for ATAGS it is for different gun[/b]

ATAGS has been ordered per current and 5 years in future requirement. done and dusted

just as you have different flavors of Maggie noodles for different taste you have to have different guns for different purpose
1) we know it's for seperate gun.

2) ATAGS ordered, can you please share a news link which explicitly stated xyz numbers of guns have been ordered to be delivered by such and such time.

3) Really, you mean to tell us that Indian requirment is so varied that it requires 2 seperate 155/52 towed howitzers?

4) Because wherever your so called lighter 155/52 howitzers can go. As will the ATAGS. So what is the point of this RFI exactly?

You are welcome to bang away your head all you need.

https://i.imgflip.com/756kg8.jpg