bharathp wrote:from the video:Bharadwaj wrote:The Chief again says they need to take a call on mk2. The AMCA is a sure thing based on what he says.
mk2 is projected to be between amca and lca mk1A
mk1A confirmed, AMCA confirmed, mk2 yet to take a call
114 aircraft are on a separate "level" of technology - rafale equivalent or a shade better" - this will be handed to private sector
MRFA/MRCA is seen as a parallel to DPSU supply chain of Tejas variants. seen as "energizing" the fighter development eco system by adding private companies
so the 114 MRCA are still on the cards!
Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
If mrfa will happen then forget tejas mk2.
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
From the Chief's interview, one thing us confirmed---> Tejas Mk2 production will commence only after production of Mk1A will be completed.
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From Satheesh Reddy Sir's presentation, the targeted dates for 'Ready for Production' are as follows:-
2026 - Tejas Mk2
2030 - AMCA Mk1
2034 - AMCA Mk2
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AMCA Mk1 will be 2 squadrons only. AMCA Mk2 would need time for development, integration and testing of a new engine. Also, AMCA production will be done by PPP model, not HAL.
So, there is a gap of 7-8 years between Tejas Mk1A production end and AMCA Mk2 production start...
Tejas Mk2 will indeed be bought in this gap, but I guess will be only replacement of 6-7 squadrons of Mirage 2000s and MIG29s, whose retirement may start from 2032 onwards considering worst case scenario...
So, I still believe that 170 jets number floating around sometime back is realistic. It will be 8-9 squadrons depending on no. of jets per squadron. It may come down to 120 jets, but not below it.
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From Satheesh Reddy Sir's presentation, the targeted dates for 'Ready for Production' are as follows:-
2026 - Tejas Mk2
2030 - AMCA Mk1
2034 - AMCA Mk2
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AMCA Mk1 will be 2 squadrons only. AMCA Mk2 would need time for development, integration and testing of a new engine. Also, AMCA production will be done by PPP model, not HAL.
So, there is a gap of 7-8 years between Tejas Mk1A production end and AMCA Mk2 production start...
Tejas Mk2 will indeed be bought in this gap, but I guess will be only replacement of 6-7 squadrons of Mirage 2000s and MIG29s, whose retirement may start from 2032 onwards considering worst case scenario...
So, I still believe that 170 jets number floating around sometime back is realistic. It will be 8-9 squadrons depending on no. of jets per squadron. It may come down to 120 jets, but not below it.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
I see not anything new in IAF Chief's statement. He perhaps expressing the current stage of IAF's procurement plan (based on various developmental activities).
--> between LCA MK1A & AMCA...
Expression is just the logical reasoning Not necessarily the exact production plan. So it may start even before MK1A production or it could be late.
--> between LCA MK1A & AMCA...
Expression is just the logical reasoning Not necessarily the exact production plan. So it may start even before MK1A production or it could be late.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
The IAF is sure to buy more Tejas Mk2 and also invest in ORCA eventually.
In the Tejas Discussions between Shri Kota Ji, AM P. Rajkumar and AM Matheshwaran, it is clear that many new technologies need to be developed for AMCA. There is also the matter of operating costs. Based on what we know about stealth aircraft, AMCA will have higher operating costs. Over the next 40 years IAF will need low cost machines that can deliver heavy ordinance. AMCA's can be used to kick open the doors, tip of the spear in handling BWR combat and other specialized roles. Tejas Mk1A, Mk2 and ORCA will perform the rest of the more mundane tasks and provide a number surge when needed.
In the Tejas Discussions between Shri Kota Ji, AM P. Rajkumar and AM Matheshwaran, it is clear that many new technologies need to be developed for AMCA. There is also the matter of operating costs. Based on what we know about stealth aircraft, AMCA will have higher operating costs. Over the next 40 years IAF will need low cost machines that can deliver heavy ordinance. AMCA's can be used to kick open the doors, tip of the spear in handling BWR combat and other specialized roles. Tejas Mk1A, Mk2 and ORCA will perform the rest of the more mundane tasks and provide a number surge when needed.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Excellent technical interview by Sriram. Was this linked here?
https://youtu.be/I4QFS__O3Ck
https://youtu.be/I4QFS__O3Ck
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
When even US is trying to build a brand new 4.5 Gen aircraft to replace F16, I think people in know have wisely decided to go for TEDBF and IAF has any quality people at helm, they will also go for ORCA.astal wrote:The IAF is sure to buy more Tejas Mk2 and also invest in ORCA eventually.
In the Tejas Discussions between Shri Kota Ji, AM P. Rajkumar and AM Matheshwaran, it is clear that many new technologies need to be developed for AMCA. There is also the matter of operating costs. Based on what we know about stealth aircraft, AMCA will have higher operating costs. Over the next 40 years IAF will need low cost machines that can deliver heavy ordinance. AMCA's can be used to kick open the doors, tip of the spear in handling BWR combat and other specialized roles. Tejas Mk1A, Mk2 and ORCA will perform the rest of the more mundane tasks and provide a number surge when needed.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Video already added on page 1 and every word has been dissected by the jingos.SaiK wrote:Excellent technical interview by Sriram. Was this linked here?
https://youtu.be/I4QFS__O3Ck
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
The ORCA will surely come at the cost of LCA MK.2 though?rajsunder wrote:When even US is trying to build a brand new 4.5 Gen aircraft to replace F16, I think people in know have wisely decided to go for TEDBF and IAF has any quality people at helm, they will also go for ORCA.astal wrote:The IAF is sure to buy more Tejas Mk2 and also invest in ORCA eventually.
In the Tejas Discussions between Shri Kota Ji, AM P. Rajkumar and AM Matheshwaran, it is clear that many new technologies need to be developed for AMCA. There is also the matter of operating costs. Based on what we know about stealth aircraft, AMCA will have higher operating costs. Over the next 40 years IAF will need low cost machines that can deliver heavy ordinance. AMCA's can be used to kick open the doors, tip of the spear in handling BWR combat and other specialized roles. Tejas Mk1A, Mk2 and ORCA will perform the rest of the more mundane tasks and provide a number surge when needed.
I have a sinking feeling the LCA MK.2 will get squeezed between AMCA and ORCA and even further Rafale orders.
Just looking at the numbers I think 4-5 SQNs of MK.2 are perhaps the most one can reasonably expect right now- that will allow for there to be 10 SQNs of MK1/2 to replace all the MIG-21s, 15 MKI SQNs then (as confirmed by ADA during aero India) a minimum of 6 SQNs of AMCA and 2+2 Rafale SQNs leaves the IAF at 35 SQNs by mid/late 2030s. There will be at least 5 additional SQNs of legacy types like MIG-29UPG and DARIN 3 Jags kicking around too so not only does there seem to be no room for the 114 MRFA but even additional LCA MK2 orders much above 4-5 squadrons.
So if ORCA becomes a reality then it will only be cannibalising LCA MK.2 orders
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
In which case, it is better to retire MK 1 early and settle on Mk 2, Orca and AMCA
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
ORCA will be to replace Su30. AMCA will be an expensive bird. Probably in the range of 150M and up.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Mk1 has airframe life of 9000hours and calender life of 45 years @200hours/year . Will serve upto 2070 with upgradation.Anujan wrote:In which case, it is better to retire MK 1 early and settle on Mk 2, Orca and AMCA
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
So who is going to make TEDBF?
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Su-30 is going nowhere for quite some time ...A good MLU means its gonna continue to be the backbone of IAF for 2050 and beyond .nam wrote:ORCA will be to replace Su30. AMCA will be an expensive bird. Probably in the range of 150M and up.
Better to spend the money on getting the best upgrade possible and focus clean sheet development efforts on AMCA and TEDBF , Two extremely complex programs that definitely will take a huge amount of resources and budget .
If TEDBF is successful that may open up a future IAF variant like ORCA but that's all speculation for now
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
https://twitter.com/strategic_front/sta ... 93760?s=20 ---> The study will include a “clean sheet design” for a new “four-and-a-half-gen or fifth-gen-minus” fighter to replace the F-16 : US Air Force Chief of Staff.
Twitter responses below to the tweet above ^^^
https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 22182?s=20 ---> Now please stop asking "why LCA Mk2".
https://twitter.com/KSingh_1469/status/ ... 29700?s=20 ---> Remember guys, when IAF and Indian Navy said they want 4.5++ generation fighters post 2030, they are being myopic. But now USAF does it, there will be scores of articles dissecting this and proclaiming it eminently sensible. Tejas Mk 2 and TEDBF have bright bright futures.
https://twitter.com/MI6GB/status/136231 ... 06433?s=20 ---> To all those asking why is India building 4.5 gen aircraft when the world is moving on to 5th, 6th gen aircraft.
Twitter responses below to the tweet above ^^^
https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 22182?s=20 ---> Now please stop asking "why LCA Mk2".
https://twitter.com/KSingh_1469/status/ ... 29700?s=20 ---> Remember guys, when IAF and Indian Navy said they want 4.5++ generation fighters post 2030, they are being myopic. But now USAF does it, there will be scores of articles dissecting this and proclaiming it eminently sensible. Tejas Mk 2 and TEDBF have bright bright futures.
https://twitter.com/MI6GB/status/136231 ... 06433?s=20 ---> To all those asking why is India building 4.5 gen aircraft when the world is moving on to 5th, 6th gen aircraft.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 14890?s=20 ---> Same reason why Tejas MWF scores over the Rafale, Mirage and all other "closed systems" (from our perspective).Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheDEWLine/status/1 ... 08705?s=20 ---> In a pre-recorded panel discussion for AFA's Air Warfare Symposium today, General Timothy Ray, head of Global Strike Command, says this about the Northrop Grumman B-21 ---> "It would take me years to integrate a new stand-off missile on the B-2. It will take me months with the B-21."
https://twitter.com/sridhar__TN/status/ ... 20739?s=20 ---> Programming and integrating must be easy with open architecture.
https://twitter.com/Firezstarter1/statu ... 07587?s=20 ---> We own the entire process.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
From Dr Satish Reddy's interview, further confirmation that the first prototype of Tejas Mk2 is on schedule for rollout in August 2022.
Interview link
Interview link
When are we ready for India’s next gen fighter Jets - AMCA prototype and Tejas Mk 2 (Design and Development)?
Tejas MK-II program is in advance stages of development. After completion of aircraft PDR early last year, the detailed design activities are nearing completion. Manufacturing of long lead parts has already begun and the first prototype is on schedule for rollout in August 2022. Since there are very few unknowns in the programme, activities are moving rapidly.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 62720?s=20 ---> Tejas Mk2 prototype to be rolled out in August 2022. DRDO Chairman adds since very few unknowns in Tejas Mk2 program, activities are progressing rapidly. TEDBF to be inducted into service with Indian Navy in 2032.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Tejas Mk2 loadout..with 6 Astra and 2 ASRAAM plus 2 large Rafale like drop tanks with the pinched waist and bulbous nose.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Here in fresh tenders for intake model of the LCAAF Mk2 for scale size 1:4.7 . I don't know why again scale model for wind tunnel testing at this stage when first aircraft is about to be go on the assembly rig. Do you find any changes in the intake sections ?
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Tejas Mk2 brochure from Aero India 2021..can see that the length of the stroke of the oleo on the main landing gear and nose landing gear have both been increased quite a bit over that of the Tejas Mk1..to be able to accomodate large ALCMs on the center fuselage station mainly.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Simultaneous 8 BVR with 3 drop tanks means either the 2 chin stations are capable of carrying BVR AAM or 2 wingtip stations can also carry BVR.
It will be interesting to see what is the 8 BVR with 3 drop tanks configuration.
It will be interesting to see what is the 8 BVR with 3 drop tanks configuration.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Interesting. Missiles on the chin stations might stick out in front of the air intake and possibly interfere with the airflow. So it could be the wingtip stations then. There were also pictures floating around showing AAM's on a dual pylon rack on the centerline. So 8 BVRAAM's + 2 CCM's + 2 Drop tanks would also be possible and more practical.sankum wrote:Simultaneous 8 BVR with 3 drop tanks means either the 2 chin stations are capable of carrying BVR AAM or 2 wingtip stations can also carry BVR.
It will be interesting to see what is the 8 BVR with 3 drop tanks configuration.
Of course you could always skip the drop tanks altogether, fit dual racks everywhere possible and carry 12 BVR + 2 CCM . Of course the combat radius in that configuration might only extend from India Gate to Chandni Chowk
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
^^^
Two chin mounts capable of 1000lb bombs.
Two chin mounts capable of 1000lb bombs.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
The two BVR on twin rack centre fuselage station seem to be rail launched rather than ejector.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Looks that way but the danger of missile exhaust getting ingested into the air intakes is too high. This may be just one of the configurations they are considering and it may or may not be supported in the final product. But it shows they are trying to make it as flexible as possible.
In any case these are configurations you will rarely see being used in service. The standard air-to-air fit will remain 4+2 or 6+2 at the most. I have yet to see a single photo of even a Rafale carrying more than 6 AAM's (even in French service).
In any case these are configurations you will rarely see being used in service. The standard air-to-air fit will remain 4+2 or 6+2 at the most. I have yet to see a single photo of even a Rafale carrying more than 6 AAM's (even in French service).
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Tejas Mk2 MWF and AMCA Finite Element Model image
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
#Tejasmk2 had been working on this for a month @alpha_defense
https://twitter.com/Raghuna86681990/sta ... 82209?s=20
https://twitter.com/Raghuna86681990/sta ... 82209?s=20
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Exceptional work by Kuntal Biswas
Tejas Mk2 MWF is stunning!
Tejas Mk2 MWF is stunning!
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Inlet splitter plate - how it is connected to fuselage especially that small attachment at the front top of splitter plate - we can keep that splitter plate connection like Rafale? that front top small attachment is creating spiller duct? it could be free flowing like rafale?
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Small nut pick : IRST should be in the other side as shown in the model in AI.
Q1. What is the small hump at the back of the cockpit ? Is it MAWS ?
Q2. What are those green colored bands near the engine and the tail ?
Q1. What is the small hump at the back of the cockpit ? Is it MAWS ?
Q2. What are those green colored bands near the engine and the tail ?
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Green coloured bands are nav led light strips...
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Though provision for slight separation of movable canard is there now, wouldn't it be good if few cm of canard base is kept fixed and rest is movable?
Also if length of plane is increased by length of spill-duct at front of wing-tip - wing can be pushed back to connect exactly where spill-duct is ending. this will remove the need for that small attachment of splitter plate at the front-top.
Also it will be easy to convert these into DSI intakes which should be given consideration for Block-2 if DSI is success with AMCA and TEDBF.
My wishlist for block-2,
1] RollsRoyce J2x0 engine with 70KN dry and 105KN wet thrust.
2] DSI Intakes
3] Conformal Fuel Tanks
4] Correction of Nose to provide wider base for bigger Radar than currently planned
Also if length of plane is increased by length of spill-duct at front of wing-tip - wing can be pushed back to connect exactly where spill-duct is ending. this will remove the need for that small attachment of splitter plate at the front-top.
Also it will be easy to convert these into DSI intakes which should be given consideration for Block-2 if DSI is success with AMCA and TEDBF.
My wishlist for block-2,
1] RollsRoyce J2x0 engine with 70KN dry and 105KN wet thrust.
2] DSI Intakes
3] Conformal Fuel Tanks
4] Correction of Nose to provide wider base for bigger Radar than currently planned
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Wow, can't take my eyes of her. Stunning artwork. Mk2 looks more and more beautiful (actually looks better than the model shown in AI, especially the canard/ canopy junction area) .
A few observations and questions for the gurus here:
* Are the rough specs for Tejas Mk2 IRST published anywhere? According to Project Director Dr Madhusudhana Rao in the AI 2021 video by DDR, we will be using an off the shelf IRST initially before eventually settling on indigenous one (reason why the IRST moved from the left to the right side). IRST size though appears to look small in proportion to the nose cone.
* Is the opening for the spill duct appear too close to the leading edge in the artwork?
* I recall reading about the 'Y' air intake ducts had to be strengthened in Tejas Mk1 (where the central fuel tank goes in-between) waaay back during the initial PV stages. Said it added to its weight a little. I don't have a reference for it now unfortunately. I wonder if they have made changes to the Mk2 design alleviating such a need.
* Any insights on percentage ratio of composites on the overall airframe? Are the composite fiber preforms/ prepregs made in India or procured from abroad (including Mk1A)?
Thanks. Can't wait to see her in real form!
A few observations and questions for the gurus here:
* Are the rough specs for Tejas Mk2 IRST published anywhere? According to Project Director Dr Madhusudhana Rao in the AI 2021 video by DDR, we will be using an off the shelf IRST initially before eventually settling on indigenous one (reason why the IRST moved from the left to the right side). IRST size though appears to look small in proportion to the nose cone.
* Is the opening for the spill duct appear too close to the leading edge in the artwork?
* I recall reading about the 'Y' air intake ducts had to be strengthened in Tejas Mk1 (where the central fuel tank goes in-between) waaay back during the initial PV stages. Said it added to its weight a little. I don't have a reference for it now unfortunately. I wonder if they have made changes to the Mk2 design alleviating such a need.
* Any insights on percentage ratio of composites on the overall airframe? Are the composite fiber preforms/ prepregs made in India or procured from abroad (including Mk1A)?
Thanks. Can't wait to see her in real form!
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
the IRST for the first 2 Tejas Mk2 MWF prototypes will be on the pilot's right hand (starboard) side as the Off The Shelf IRST (I think it's the Selex Skyward G IRST) is only available to be mounted on that side.Avinandan wrote:Small nut pick : IRST should be in the other side as shown in the model in AI.
Q1. What is the small hump at the back of the cockpit ? Is it MAWS ?
Q2. What are those green colored bands near the engine and the tail ?
Selex Skyward G IRST on Gripen E prototype 39-7 which was earlier the Gripen NG demonstrator.
However, once the development of the indigenous IRST is completed, it will be mounted on the pilot's left hand side (port) side.
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
What this Collaboration for with UK ?
"Broaden our dialogue on Combat Air collaboration to determine how the UK can support India’s ambitions for their Light Combat Air MK2 Programme. "
https://mea.gov.in/bilateral-documents. ... 4+May+2021
"Broaden our dialogue on Combat Air collaboration to determine how the UK can support India’s ambitions for their Light Combat Air MK2 Programme. "
https://mea.gov.in/bilateral-documents. ... 4+May+2021
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Hmm...No mention of AMCA in the document.
So Rolls Royce collaboration now sought for LCA mk2 ? Apart from Engine everything else can be done here itself.
So Rolls Royce collaboration now sought for LCA mk2 ? Apart from Engine everything else can be done here itself.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Maybe engine collaboration is not finalized. It could be just Chobam stuff on Mk2 that is being referred to. Radome and refuelling probe.arvin wrote:Hmm...No mention of AMCA in the document.
So Rolls Royce collaboration now sought for LCA mk2 ? Apart from Engine everything else can be done here itself.