Based on what are you so confidently stating that Mk2 will only enter production from 2030 onwards?mody wrote:The current timeline given by HAL is that the production run of the MK1A will go on till 2029 for the 73 single seat fighters. The MK2 will only enter production from 2030 onwards.
Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
From the ArticleKartik wrote:Based on what are you so confidently stating that Mk2 will only enter production from 2030 onwards?mody wrote:The current timeline given by HAL is that the production run of the MK1A will go on till 2029 for the 73 single seat fighters. The MK2 will only enter production from 2030 onwards.
Although the article also states that 2028 is when MK1A production will end. All this may be loaded with DDMitisAs for Tejas Mark-2, DRDO and Aeronautical Development Agency aim to conduct its first flight in two to three years, with the production beginning by around 2030
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
SidSoma wrote:Any idea when this 2500 Cr was sanctioned and for what.Cabinet Committee on Security(CCS) cleared the project to develop Tejas Mark-2 with prototypes, flight testing and certification at a cost of over Rs 6,500 crore, in addition to the Rs 2,500 crore earlier sanctioned for it.
From DFI
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
This is indeed superb news! There is no dithering around now, no questions of funds, no ambiguity. The only thing I'm hoping for is now a proper interview with Dr Deodhare, with a proper set of questions. There is so much confusion about the dates for rollout, first flight, when production is targeted to be launched..
What we know thus far:
First prototype roll-out - First quarter of 2023
First flight - First quarter of 2024
Development completion - 2027 (as per what I read on Twitter, attributed to Dr Girish Deodhare)
Production launch - 2028
What we know thus far:
First prototype roll-out - First quarter of 2023
First flight - First quarter of 2024
Development completion - 2027 (as per what I read on Twitter, attributed to Dr Girish Deodhare)
Production launch - 2028
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
The timeline for MK1A deliveries is mostly as per below:
Deliveries to start from 2024. First year most probably 8 aircrafts.
Second year 12-16 aircrafts.
Subsequent years 16 aircrafts per annum.
As per this, the order for 73 MK1A will get finished by December 2028 or March 2029.
The role out of MK2 is to be next year and flight trials to begin in 2024-25. Not even ADA or HAL can commit 100% when the production will start, as of now. It is projected to start around 2028-29, with deliveries starting mostly from 2030. This is from numerous news reports over the years. However, all of this assumes that everything goes smoothly as far as the flight trails are concerned. The MK2 is essentially a completely new aircraft, using a lot of the subsystems from the MK1/1A program and upgrades of the same.
Another point that may change the timelines would be possible export orders for the MK1A to the likes of Malaysia. HAL would have to expand their production capacity to meet these export requirements or use the production capacity that they have for the 2 seat trainers for the same.
The production of the 2 seat trainers for IAF should have started by now and deliveries were to start by the end of this year. HAL has to deliver 18 MK1 2-seat trainers to IAF. Mostly the plan was to deliver most of these by the time the deliveries of the MK1A would start. Haven't seen any news reports about the commencement of the production of the 2-seat trainers till date.
Too many variables as of now, for anyone to give a 100% assured timeline.
Deliveries to start from 2024. First year most probably 8 aircrafts.
Second year 12-16 aircrafts.
Subsequent years 16 aircrafts per annum.
As per this, the order for 73 MK1A will get finished by December 2028 or March 2029.
The role out of MK2 is to be next year and flight trials to begin in 2024-25. Not even ADA or HAL can commit 100% when the production will start, as of now. It is projected to start around 2028-29, with deliveries starting mostly from 2030. This is from numerous news reports over the years. However, all of this assumes that everything goes smoothly as far as the flight trails are concerned. The MK2 is essentially a completely new aircraft, using a lot of the subsystems from the MK1/1A program and upgrades of the same.
Another point that may change the timelines would be possible export orders for the MK1A to the likes of Malaysia. HAL would have to expand their production capacity to meet these export requirements or use the production capacity that they have for the 2 seat trainers for the same.
The production of the 2 seat trainers for IAF should have started by now and deliveries were to start by the end of this year. HAL has to deliver 18 MK1 2-seat trainers to IAF. Mostly the plan was to deliver most of these by the time the deliveries of the MK1A would start. Haven't seen any news reports about the commencement of the production of the 2-seat trainers till date.
Too many variables as of now, for anyone to give a 100% assured timeline.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
You’ve summarised exactly what the situation is although I’d add that if RMAF or anyone else actually comes through with orders then HAL will scale their production accordingly as they’ll be paid upfront and will invest whatever needs to be done to fulfil their contractual obligations.mody wrote:The timeline for MK1A deliveries is mostly as per below:
Deliveries to start from 2024. First year most probably 8 aircrafts.
Second year 12-16 aircrafts.
Subsequent years 16 aircrafts per annum.
As per this, the order for 73 MK1A will get finished by December 2028 or March 2029.
The role out of MK2 is to be next year and flight trials to begin in 2024-25. Not even ADA or HAL can commit 100% when the production will start, as of now. It is projected to start around 2028-29, with deliveries starting mostly from 2030. This is from numerous news reports over the years. However, all of this assumes that everything goes smoothly as far as the flight trails are concerned. The MK2 is essentially a completely new aircraft, using a lot of the subsystems from the MK1/1A program and upgrades of the same.
Another point that may change the timelines would be possible export orders for the MK1A to the likes of Malaysia. HAL would have to expand their production capacity to meet these export requirements or use the production capacity that they have for the 2 seat trainers for the same.
The production of the 2 seat trainers for IAF should have started by now and deliveries were to start by the end of this year. HAL has to deliver 18 MK1 2-seat trainers to IAF. Mostly the plan was to deliver most of these by the time the deliveries of the MK1A would start. Haven't seen any news reports about the commencement of the production of the 2-seat trainers till date.
Too many variables as of now, for anyone to give a 100% assured timeline.
The 2024 first flight to 2027-8 being ready for production is already incredibly incredibly optimistic when you look at the Gripen NG for comparison. It would mean absolutely everything working to schedule with not even a few weeks of delays between each stage, this doesn’t sound particularly Indian does it? Also for production to commence 2028-29 (for deliveries to commence in 2030) the IAF would have to commit to orders and give contracts in ~2026-27 when the MK.2 is still under validation trails- this is VERY unlike IAF/Indian services. Just look at LCA/LCH/LUH/HTT-40 sagas, the services don’t seem willing to order anything unless trails aren’t fully completed to their satisfaction and even then there is usually a 2+ year delay
Let’s just see how the roll out and first flight goes, we won’t know until ~2025-6 if things are on track
Now let’s hope CCS clear IMRH and AMCA this year too
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
A very prompt message of support from CAS on CCS clearance of Tejas Mk2, posted by @delhidefence.
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 7987480578
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 7987480578
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Underwhelming, read-from-script statement by the IAF Chief, with the caveat that everything should happen on time.
Its like people told him to do some damage control & show some Atmanirbharta love.
Its like people told him to do some damage control & show some Atmanirbharta love.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
mody most likely the Mk2 prototypes will be built in the half line at Hal and transition to the fullline once testing is complete.
Very clear need for a new third line for exports and or Mk2.
Very clear need for a new third line for exports and or Mk2.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Good to see the Chief endorsing the Mk2.dkhare wrote:A very prompt message of support from CAS on CCS clearance of Tejas Mk2, posted by @delhidefence.
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 7987480578
#AtmaNirbharBharat
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Exactly. If they can wait and evaluate for 10 years and end up with nothing, they can surely wait for another few past 2030.Prem Kumar wrote:Underwhelming, read-from-script statement by the IAF Chief, with the caveat that everything should happen on time.
Its like people told him to do some damage control & show some Atmanirbharta love.
Can we trust a person who makes too many appearances on media...that too in person on video. He is playing to the audience and showing how "committed" he is to "AtmaNirbhar" too many times almost to the point of being repentant.
The order numbers makes me feel he is leaving the door open.
"Everything should happen on time" - Looks like regular releases of indigenization lists is making them look over the shoulders.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
BTW, Page 1 has been updated. The updated info is replicated below. Please advise if anything requires correction.
Twitter Thread on Tejas Mk2
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1565 ... 58016.html
By Indranil Roy, 01 Sept 2022
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Milestones Achieved
• Air Marshal Narmdeshwar Tiwari, the Deputy Chief of Air Staff (DCAS) of the Indian Air Force, accepted the Critical Design Review (CDR) of the Tejas Mk2 on 15 November 2021.
Source: https://tinyurl.com/2yz6trhb
• R. Madhavan - Chief Managing Director of HAL - in an interview dated January 2022, stated that the design for the Tejas Mk2 has been frozen and some of the manufacturing activities have started.
Source: https://tinyurl.com/p4tpmje3
• On 31 August 2022, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) cleared the project to develop the Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter. This project - which is expected to cost Rs. 6,500 crore - is for the design, development, testing and certification of the aircraft.
Source: https://tinyurl.com/3vabften
Future Milestones
• Roll out of first prototype is expected in 2023.
• First flight of the prototype is expected in 2023 or 2024.
Twitter Thread on Tejas Mk2
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1565 ... 58016.html
By Indranil Roy, 01 Sept 2022
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Milestones Achieved
• Air Marshal Narmdeshwar Tiwari, the Deputy Chief of Air Staff (DCAS) of the Indian Air Force, accepted the Critical Design Review (CDR) of the Tejas Mk2 on 15 November 2021.
Source: https://tinyurl.com/2yz6trhb
• R. Madhavan - Chief Managing Director of HAL - in an interview dated January 2022, stated that the design for the Tejas Mk2 has been frozen and some of the manufacturing activities have started.
Source: https://tinyurl.com/p4tpmje3
• On 31 August 2022, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) cleared the project to develop the Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter. This project - which is expected to cost Rs. 6,500 crore - is for the design, development, testing and certification of the aircraft.
Source: https://tinyurl.com/3vabften
Future Milestones
• Roll out of first prototype is expected in 2023.
• First flight of the prototype is expected in 2023 or 2024.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Sijree, you asked for silver linings. Lungi dances are part of that packageks_sachin wrote:Admiral you r a master of deflection.
You have gone on the front foot and shrouded any talks of mithai with lungis!!!
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Rakesh, I thought 2030 is the production delivery start?
When is testing complete 2027?
And 2500 crores already funded for design and development.
When is testing complete 2027?
And 2500 crores already funded for design and development.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Around 2030 is when production will indeed start.
With regards to testing, that is an IR question He would know best. I would be providing estimates onlee and it will not even be correct.
I am very happy that the program has finally got sanction. IMVHO, the timeline is not of concern at this stage. What needs to be done is to order additional Tejas Mk1A squadrons and setting up of a third line. Those are the more immediate low hanging fruits.
With regards to testing, that is an IR question He would know best. I would be providing estimates onlee and it will not even be correct.
I am very happy that the program has finally got sanction. IMVHO, the timeline is not of concern at this stage. What needs to be done is to order additional Tejas Mk1A squadrons and setting up of a third line. Those are the more immediate low hanging fruits.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Every time India has invested in her aviation industry, it has always had a positive outlook. The gestation period is long, but it works out in the end. I don't view the Rs 2,500 crore as necessarily sunk cost. If it does not directly pay off into a platform, it pays off in other ways (especially with human resources and intellect). Where we waste money is below and it is from Indranil.
This is why it is essential that we recoup the investment made with the first 36 Rafales, by ordering another 3 - 4 squadrons more. To purchase anything else is downright foolish. Add the MRCBF contract and the ROI will be even greater.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1565 ... 58016.html
This is why it is essential that we recoup the investment made with the first 36 Rafales, by ordering another 3 - 4 squadrons more. To purchase anything else is downright foolish. Add the MRCBF contract and the ROI will be even greater.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1565 ... 58016.html
Rs 2,500 crore is better spent at HAL versus investing that same amount at Dassault or wherever else outside of India.Many have expressed some surprise and confusion on the 6,500 crores allotted for building Tejas, testing and certifying Mk2 prototypes. Some find it high! Actually, it is very cheap. We paid over twice that amount (~13,500 crores) for "India Specific Enhancements" on the Rafale 5 years back. These enhancements were only related to avionics and new weapons. By the way, most of these enhancements were in the planned iterative development path Rafale any how. But somebody needed to fund that development and testing. India did. And unfortunately, that cost was only amortized on 36 aircrafts! It was a win-win for Dassault though. It can pitch these enhancements to all other current and future customers. And by the way, Dassault did nothing wrong. This is how development in military aviation goes.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
I submit the 2500 crore is for design and development to get to CDR.
The 6500 crore is to build and complete testing.
You need both.
How many prototypes are planned?
Four prototypes are planned.
The 6500 crore is to build and complete testing.
You need both.
How many prototypes are planned?
Four prototypes are planned.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
I am not sure. Perhaps KaranM or IR may know the answer to this.ramana wrote:How many prototypes are planned?
The earlier Rs 2,500 crore (from 2009) was for two prototypes. This new sanction of Rs 6,500 will get more than two airframes.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
From Wiki:
On September 1, 2022, Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) cleared ₹9,000 crore for Tejas Mark 2 which includes prototype development and flight testing.[12] The cost of fighter jet development will take ₹6,500 crores in addition to ₹2,500 crores sanctioned previously through internal funding.[13] HAL will start high-speed taxi trials in 2023 and limited production from 2025.[14] The entire development process will be completed by 2027 with full-scale mass production from 2030.[15] Tejas Mark 2 will become operationally available from 2028. Apart from current order of 110-120 aircraft that will form six squadrons, government officials expect additional order of 210 aircraft.[12]
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Six squadrons of 120 aircraft is the plan. I wonder where this source of another 210 (another 10 more squadrons) are coming from.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Ok Prasar Bharati site;
Boost to IAF, Cabinet clears LCA Tejas Mark 2 development project
Paying the way for the country’s indigenous fighter aircraft development endeavours, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) has cleared the development of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Mark 2 fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force.
The next state-of-art fighter aircraft would be a replacement for the Mirage 2000, Jaguar and MiG-29 combat aircraft in the IAF. The decision gives a tremendous boost to the indigenous design & development of the next-gen fighter aircraft and self reliance in domain of aircraft manufacturing
“In the view of rapidly depleting strength of fighter squadrons of IAF & phasing out of the MiG 21 aircraft in coming years, it’s essential that laid down timelines for the projects are adhered to,” Indian Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal VR Chaudhari said.
Tejas Mark 2 will fill a critical capability void. Therefore, it’s essential that all stakeholders should need to work in tandem to ensure the timely induction of this aircraft into IAF, the IAF Chief added.
Notably, the LCA Mark 2 fighter aircraft development project would pave the way for designers to develop an advanced ‘17.5-tonne single-engine aircraft. Further, the development of new aircraft will be completed by 2027.
“The project would benefit from the progress made in the LCA Mark 1A programme and would help in the development of the fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft project, ” Aeronautical Development Agency chief Girish Deodhare asserted.
The government has cleared the development of prototypes of which, the first is likely to roll out in a year and the project is scheduled to be completed by the year 2027 after extensive flying trials and other related work, he further added.
The Rafale Class Tejas Aircraft
As per DRDO, Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Mark 2 aircraft would be in the category of the Rafale class aircraft in terms of avionics and capabilities but with lighter weight. It is noteworthy that the government has also approved the made-in-India engines, which will be used in the aircraft after the initial development phase.
The R&D wing of the Ministry of Defence would be developing the aircraft with a GE-414 engine – the advanced version of the GE-404s that power the existing LCAs in service and the 83 LCA Mark 1As which would start getting inducted into IAF in the next couple of years.
At present, 30 LCAs are in service with the IAF and two are being used by the HAL to develop the Mark 1As.
India’s Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)
In March this year, state-owned aerospace & defence firm Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) started manufacturing India’s Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) in association with DRDO’s Aeronautical Development Agency.
The AMCA programme entered a crucial phase with the starting of manufacturing activities. It is noteworthy that the plan envisages equipping the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Indian Navy with a 5.5 Generation twin-engine stealth fighter.
While the design and development will be carried out by HAL and ADA, private defence firms will also be roped in to manufacture the combat jet. The advanced stealth aircraft will be a multirole fighter capable of carrying out air superiority, ground strike, suppression of enemy air defences and electronic warfare missions.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Second unnamed official talking to HT.Rakesh wrote:Six squadrons of 120 aircraft is the plan. I wonder where this source of another 210 (another 10 more squadrons) are coming from.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Excellent find Ramana-ji.
To all BRFites...read the below. From the horse's mouth. This is why the Tejas Mk2 is important. The Tejas Mk2 cannot exist without the Tejas Mk1A. And there can be no Tejas Mk1A without the Tejas Mk1. Similarly, there can be on AMCA without Tejas Mk2. CRAWL-WALK-RUN.
Many of BRF kept asking this same thing during the SE fighter contest (between the F-16 Block 70 and Gripen E). At that time, the gyan was that the Tejas Mk2 was unnecessary drain on resources. So jump from Tejas Mk1A to phoren SE fighter and then directly to AMCA. But the deception could clearly be seen. The Tejas Mk2 was/is a clear and present danger to the SE fighter contest and now the 114 MRFA contest.
To all BRFites...read the below. From the horse's mouth. This is why the Tejas Mk2 is important. The Tejas Mk2 cannot exist without the Tejas Mk1A. And there can be no Tejas Mk1A without the Tejas Mk1. Similarly, there can be on AMCA without Tejas Mk2. CRAWL-WALK-RUN.
Many of BRF kept asking this same thing during the SE fighter contest (between the F-16 Block 70 and Gripen E). At that time, the gyan was that the Tejas Mk2 was unnecessary drain on resources. So jump from Tejas Mk1A to phoren SE fighter and then directly to AMCA. But the deception could clearly be seen. The Tejas Mk2 was/is a clear and present danger to the SE fighter contest and now the 114 MRFA contest.
ramana wrote:Ok Prasar Bharati site;“The project would benefit FROM the progress made in the LCA Mark 1A programme and would HELP in the development of the fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft project, ” Aeronautical Development Agency chief Girish Deodhare asserted.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Yes, it is called spiral development when you build on each model.
Wait till the AMCA is funded and other nations beat a path to India.
Wait till the AMCA is funded and other nations beat a path to India.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Hope GTRE folks are paying attention.ramana wrote:Yes, it is called spiral development when you build on each model.
Wait till the AMCA is funded and other nations beat a path to India.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Being not foolish and ordering 4 sqn of Rafale is good, waiting 6-7 year for delivery is downright foolish IMHORakesh wrote: This is why it is essential that we recoup the investment made with the first 36 Rafales, by ordering another 3 - 4 squadrons more. To purchase anything else is downright foolish..
Catch 22
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
This is akin to the evolution of SLV's by ISRO. ISRO developed the SLV and then went on to the ASLV. ISRO assumed that ASLV would be a cakewalk. But two failures of the ASLV taught ISRO invaluable lessons which were incorporated into the PSLV making it the internationally known, reliable and successful work horse of ISRO that it is today.Rakesh wrote:Excellent find Ramana-ji.
To all BRFites...read the below. From the horse's mouth. This is why the Tejas Mk2 is important. The Tejas Mk2 cannot exist without the Tejas Mk1A. And there can be no Tejas Mk1A without the Tejas Mk1. Similarly, there can be on AMCA without Tejas Mk2. CRAWL-WALK-RUN.
ramana wrote:Ok Prasar Bharati site;
Glad to note that the aeronautical community is going through a logical progression and not cutting corners by trying to jump through hoops.
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
The reverse is also true. The availability of proven modules from Mk1 frees up time/effort for ADA to focus on new tech for Mk2. This new tech can be back-ported to Mk1. A nice, virtuous loop.Rakesh wrote:Excellent find Ramana-ji.
To all BRFites...read the below. From the horse's mouth. This is why the Tejas Mk2 is important. The Tejas Mk2 cannot exist without the Tejas Mk1A. And there can be no Tejas Mk1A without the Tejas Mk1. Similarly, there can be on AMCA without Tejas Mk2. CRAWL-WALK-RUN
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Indeed Haridas-ji. No contest there.Haridas wrote:Being not foolish and ordering 4 sqn of Rafale is good, waiting 6-7 year for delivery is downright foolish IMHORakesh wrote: This is why it is essential that we recoup the investment made with the first 36 Rafales, by ordering another 3 - 4 squadrons more. To purchase anything else is downright foolish..
Catch 22
Multi-pronged approach needs to be undertaken to address squadron shortage ---> additional Tejas Mk1As airframes need to be ordered + improve serviceability of aircraft presently in service + commence Super Sukhoi upgrade + two to four additional Rafale squadrons, etc.
But Air HQ wants to focus only on 114 MRFA and thus the impasse continues....
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Exactly! Just like the F-21 features tech from the F-35 and F-22. As you say --- a nice, virtous loop.Prem Kumar wrote:The reverse is also true. The availability of proven modules from Mk1 frees up time/effort for ADA to focus on new tech for Mk2. This new tech can be back-ported to Mk1. A nice, virtuous loop.Rakesh wrote:Excellent find Ramana-ji.
To all BRFites...read the below. From the horse's mouth. This is why the Tejas Mk2 is important. The Tejas Mk2 cannot exist without the Tejas Mk1A. And there can be no Tejas Mk1A without the Tejas Mk1. Similarly, there can be on AMCA without Tejas Mk2. CRAWL-WALK-RUN
Setting up a third Tejas line and another 2 - 4 additional Tejas Mk1A squadrons is not going bring the sky down on Air HQ's head. Air HQ's laser vision focus on 114 MRFA is hurting the IAF.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
You mean the B-21 right, Admiral sir.Rakesh wrote: Exactly! Just like the F-21 features tech from the F-35 and F-22. As you say --- a nice, virtous loop.
...
Just when the F-21 is quiet you don't want to re-stoke the embers..
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Below is possible list of commonalities with some needing upgrades from the MK1 baseline :Rakesh wrote:Exactly! Just like the F-21 features tech from the F-35 and F-22. As you say --- a nice, virtous loop.Prem Kumar wrote: The reverse is also true. The availability of proven modules from Mk1 frees up time/effort for ADA to focus on new tech for Mk2. This new tech can be back-ported to Mk1. A nice, virtuous loop.
Setting up a third Tejas line and another 2 - 4 additional Tejas Mk1A squadrons is not going bring the sky down on Air HQ's head. Air HQ's laser vision focus on 114 MRFA is hurting the IAF.
MIL1553B Bus for communication
Mission computer
MFDs and Glass cockpit
Radar
HUD
HMS
RWR
LIteningPod
Navigation system
Stores Management
Sensors
FCS (derived from MK1)
Flight Data Recorder
Glass canopy( ? The extension plug is behind the canopy for MK2...so I assume everything from end of canopy to nose is the same)
All weapons already tested on MK1
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
Was just thinking about this from GoI POV - 13K crores invested into the MK2 or roughly $2B. How many units will need to be ordered for RoI? At least 250 @70M a pop?
There is a big 50% gap between IAF orders and sunk cost.
There is a big 50% gap between IAF orders and sunk cost.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
How did you get 50% gap? What price do you wish to pay for not being perpetually dependent on foreign support when you aspire to be a superpower? How do you estimate the price of tangibles achieved with 2B USD (in terms of h/w, s/w and human resources)?
The logic is flawed, like claiming there is no need to feed mouth as it hardly gets any work done unlike brain, hands and legs which never eat anything. By the same logic, no one should spend money on metro railways as the costs are never recovered with direct profits. And the cost of Delhi metro is way higher than the development costs of multiple defence projects put together. Delhi Metro Phase IV alone is estimated at Rs. 24,948.65 crores. Also 2B/250 = 2M, comparable to profit margins I guess the foreign companies would make on each unit.
The logic is flawed, like claiming there is no need to feed mouth as it hardly gets any work done unlike brain, hands and legs which never eat anything. By the same logic, no one should spend money on metro railways as the costs are never recovered with direct profits. And the cost of Delhi metro is way higher than the development costs of multiple defence projects put together. Delhi Metro Phase IV alone is estimated at Rs. 24,948.65 crores. Also 2B/250 = 2M, comparable to profit margins I guess the foreign companies would make on each unit.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
All underlying tech being developed will be amortized across iaf fleets - either directly as in AMCA or in upgrades. LCA's mission computer experience is now allowing us to change the ones in mig29k.Neela wrote:Was just thinking about this from GoI POV - 13K crores invested into the MK2 or roughly $2B. How many units will need to be ordered for RoI? At least 250 @70M a pop?
There is a big 50% gap between IAF orders and sunk cost.
Mk2 will also find export customers - that will also bring some geopolitical heft
HAL is a tax payer, so are its suppliers. So a part of the cost will come back directly
Indirectly it will add to industrial base. Solar panels commercialisation came in from NASA's space programs. In ways large & small there will be large indirect effects.
So $2B is hardly a matter. We shud do $2B for aero-engine too & third line.
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
From: firstpost Tejas Mark-2 will carry out Balakot-style surgical strikes inside enemy territory
“While Tejas MK I is for combat air patrol within the Indian territory, MK II will have the capacity to conduct Balakot-like surgical strikes in enemy territory as it will carry heavy standoff weapons like Crystal Maze and Spice missiles,” Girish Deodhare, Program Director (Combat Aircraft), Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), had said earlier.
“LCA Mark 2 fighter aircraft development project was cleared by govt. This would pave way for designers to develop an advanced 17.5-tonne single-engine aircraft. Development of new aircraft to be completed by 2027,” Deodhare said on Wednesday.
Deodhare had also explained in the past that indigenous Tejas Mark-2 fighter jets would have the capacity to conduct Balakot strike kind of operations as it would be equipped with beyond-visual-range missiles that have greater reach and virtually jam-proof AESA radars in order to be suitable replacements for the Indian Air Force (IAF)’s aging Mirage 2000 fighters.
The new jet will carry Astra-II BVR air-to-air missiles with a range of at least 150 km.
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
YashG wrote:
All underlying tech being developed will be amortized across iaf fleets - either directly as in AMCA or in upgrades. LCA's mission computer experience is now allowing us to change the ones in mig29k.
Mk2 will also find export customers - that will also bring some geopolitical heft
HAL is a tax payer, so are its suppliers. So a part of the cost will come back directly
Indirectly it will add to industrial base. Solar panels commercialisation came in from NASA's space programs. In ways large & small there will be large indirect effects.
So $2B is hardly a matter. We shud do $2B for aero-engine too & third line.
Somehow something does not add up. On one hand we have an upfront commitment of only 6 squadrons. I dont think the costs can be recuperated with this number. And I strongly doubt GoI is too naieve not to understand this. They do. They *must* have had discussions on what this investment brings back.( They are giving ADA and HAL 10K crores for development and prototypes. So either the IAF is being a little stupid with what is expected of them or GoI knows it will squeeze their b***s with a indigenization list to tell IAF who the boss is at some point of time in the future.
It is most likely the former .
Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
If the AMCA is cleared, that's 21,500 Crores for desi aerospace. Its a significant amount given how much we achieve with far more frugal engineering.
Expect a ton of desi sensors and weapons for the IAF platforms apart.
Expect a ton of desi sensors and weapons for the IAF platforms apart.
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Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019
How do you get 13K crores? Initially, the GOI invested 2500 Cr. Now they have committed 6500 Cr more. That adds upto 9000 CroresNeela wrote:Was just thinking about this from GoI POV - 13K crores invested into the MK2 or roughly $2B. How many units will need to be ordered for RoI? At least 250 @70M a pop?
There is a big 50% gap between IAF orders and sunk cost.