Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
Neela
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4102
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 15:05
Location: Spectator in the dossier diplomacy tennis match

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Neela »

Prem Kumar wrote:
How do you get 13K crores? Initially, the GOI invested 2500 Cr. Now they have committed 6500 Cr more. That adds upto 9000 Crores
Isnt it 2500 Cr initially and 10K Cr on top ...so roughly 12500 crores. If its 9000 Cr, then both , my assumption and my rate conversion math are wrong and I stand corrected. Actually completely wrong. 6 squadrons at $70M comes to around $8B.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by ramana »

LCA Mk2 is 2500 crores and now 6500 crores.
ashishvikas
BRFite
Posts: 850
Joined: 17 Oct 2016 14:18

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by ashishvikas »

Watch "Perspective : LCA Tejas 2.0 | 3 September, 2022" on YouTube

bala
BRFite
Posts: 1975
Joined: 02 Sep 1999 11:31
Location: Office Lounge

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by bala »

I watched the above: consumer IAF vs producer HAL vs media. This 114 import of aircrafts that IAF insists upon needs to be questioned, not accepted as gospel truth. The 114 aircraft is on the level of TEDBF (pursued by the Indian Navy not the IAF). Let us assume for a moment that 114 order is given today, how long will it take to get the aircraft inducted and operationalized in IAF - 5-8 yrs. There is no immediate threat that India faces, there is however immanent threat from China, the western neighbor can be handled by India with the existing force structure. Why can't the IAF just wait a few more years and get AMCA hastened by ADA/HAL or pursue TEDBF IAF version. Add more numbers to Mk1A and MK2, upgrade the Su30MKI (maybe acquire a few more from Russia and have HAL manufacture them in Koraput/Nasik). The IAF needs to establish an IAF design bureau like the Indian Navy (established in '65).

The only thing I agree is none of the engine tech nations are going to part with engine technology for India to own. That is a pipe dream not worth mentioning.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Pratyush »

https://idrw.org/ada-plans-to-windup-te ... our-years/

4 years is from now is 2026. No reason why the production cannot be initiated by 2027.
YashG
BRFite
Posts: 936
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by YashG »

Pratyush wrote:https://idrw.org/ada-plans-to-windup-te ... our-years/

4 years is from now is 2026. No reason why the production cannot be initiated by 2027.
Import lobby's biggest fear is Mk2 productization. There is every possibility that Mk2 can come into production sooner than we think (Ofcourse it might require another 5K Cr fund infusion - to multiply workforce and testing equipment and do some parallel testing that might be costing more)

If HAL wanted 5K cr debt (as working capital or equipment loans) from any bank will be available in a moment's notice. But import lobby is lying inside HAL too and doing its sabotage as needed.
Amit_G
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 11
Joined: 29 Apr 2022 00:56

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Amit_G »

India should invest in two programs only, I believe.

One is Tejas Mk2, Mk3 which is a single engine non-stealth plane and should be our light weight/medium weight combat aircraft.

The second should be AMCA - two variants perhaps. One is a non stealth twin engine fighter that should be considered for TEDBF and MRFA 114 requirement. The second is a stealth variant.

I remember there was a mention of non-stealth version of twin engined AMCA by Dr VK Saraswat, though I cannot recall when was this.

In order to fill in the gaps, F/A-18 SH for Navy or Rafale-M (if it fits in the INS Vikrant's lift) and maybe two squadrons of Rafale for IAF. Or if the thought process is to buy F-35, that may give good capabilities and also provide the necessary experience to operate an advanced stealth fighter.

Beyond these two programs, money should be spent only on advanced technologies such as radar, sensor fusion, engine technology etc.
kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6278
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by kit »

Amit_G wrote:India should invest in two programs only, I believe.

One is Tejas Mk2, Mk3 which is a single engine non-stealth plane and should be our light weight/medium weight combat aircraft.


Beyond these two programs, money should be spent only on advanced technologies such as radar, sensor fusion, engine technology etc.
Indian nomenclature works differently., mk 1 and 1a are different., similarly expect iterative versions of 2 to follow the same. A 3 would be a distinctive design if at all

money needs to be spent on production technologies as well
Haridas
BRFite
Posts: 878
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 07:53

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Haridas »

Rakesh wrote:
Haridas wrote:
Being not foolish and ordering 4 sqn of Rafale is good, waiting 6-7 year for delivery is downright foolish IMHO

Catch 22
Indeed Haridas-ji. No contest there.

Multi-pronged approach needs to be undertaken to address squadron shortage ---> additional Tejas Mk1As airframes need to be ordered + improve serviceability of aircraft presently in service + commence Super Sukhoi upgrade + two to four additional Rafale squadrons, etc.

But Air HQ wants to focus only on 114 MRFA and thus the impasse continues....
China refuses to cooperate with IAF plan to be ready for a fight.
That is the supream reality that needs redress.

Perfection is the enemy of realism.
Now let's see how India chooses to deal with being prudent. :roll:
BenG
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 80
Joined: 30 Aug 2022 21:11

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by BenG »

If IAF is really worried about squadron shortage or Mig-21 killing pilots, they would have ordered 83 Tejas mk1 FOC when MMRCA tender was withdrawn by Jul 2015. What they want is western aircraft and they will not settle for mk2, mk3 of Tejas or AMCA. To be fair Tejas did not have FOC then. But it did have IOC. So bumping up existing IOC orders to 40 and next 80 to FOC was acceptable. However IAF is not flexible enough to incorporate budget constraints, industrial requirements and general aircraft development strategy into their strategic planning. They are in constant turf battle with Indian Army for imports and Navy for Sea control.

Even now they can order 80 more Tejas mk1a from HAL-Nashik production line and bump up production capacity. The aircraft will get delivered starting 2026. But they will wait till 2026 to see MRFA fail. They will initiate ABCD, EFGH by pointing out current Tejas production is not enough Tejas mk2 development is not complete and India needs to import 100+ western aircraft.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by ks_sachin »

Kindly post something original and I suggest you change your handle before the Mods do it for you..
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Indranil »

Rakesh wrote:
ramana wrote:How many prototypes are planned?
I am not sure. Perhaps KaranM or IR may know the answer to this.

The earlier Rs 2,500 crore (from 2009) was for two prototypes. This new sanction of Rs 6,500 will get more than two airframes.
2 prototypes.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5720
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Kartik »

Indranil wrote:
Rakesh wrote: I am not sure. Perhaps KaranM or IR may know the answer to this.

The earlier Rs 2,500 crore (from 2009) was for two prototypes. This new sanction of Rs 6,500 will get more than two airframes.
2 prototypes.
Huma Siddiqui of Financial Express reports that 4 prototypes are planned.

Of course, no one can be sure till someone like Dr Deodhare actually gives a detailed interview to a news channel. Till then nothing is clear, not the likely first prototype rollout, not the targeted first flight date, number of prototypes, etc.

HAL to develop LCA Mk2 at a total cost of Rs 9000 crores
The first prototype of Tejas Mk2 was supposed to “roll out” in August 2022, but that date has been moved to the end of 2022. It should take off for the first time in late 2023. In the beginning, four prototypes are planned.

The indigenous Light Combat Aircraft `Tejas’ Mk2, Project has been given the green light by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) on September 1, 2022. The CCS has approved Rs 6,500 crore to design and build prototypes, test flights, and certification for the Tejas Mk2 fighter jet.

The Tejas Mk2, described as a 4.5-generation fighter aircraft, will not fall into the lightweight category and will be in the middleweight category. It will have 70 per cent indigenization, more than the Mark IA’s 62 percent, and on board will be more advanced technologies made in India. This is a single-engine, multi-role, supersonic fighter plane made by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).

The Mk 2’s preliminary design studies were finished in 2014 and were in the detailed design phase in 2015. The redesigned fighter was first displayed at the Aero India air show in 2019. It was a 17.5-tonne-class fighter with close-coupled canards and an integrated IRST system. The Metal-cutting for the Tejas Mark 2 started in February 2021. The first prototype was supposed to “roll out” in August 2022, but that date has been moved to the end of 2022. It should take off for the first time in late 2023. In the beginning, four prototypes are planned.

..


According to a top IAF official, the LCA Mk2 is expected to be ready by 2024, and testing should be done by 2027. This is consistent with earlier details that HAL will start testing high-speed taxis in 2023, and in 2025, it will begin making a small number of them. The whole process of development will be done by 2027, and full-scale mass production will start in 2030. Tejas Mk2 will be ready to use starting in 2028. In addition to the six squadrons, HAL expects an order of another 210 planes.


..

The CCS has sanctioned a total development cost of Rs 9000 crore including the Rs 2500 crore that has already been spent. Based on the information in public domain, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has set a target of 2027 to complete the flight testing.
Huma is thoroughly confused, stating that in addition to the 108 that the IAF has committed to, HAL expects another 210 orders. The reality is that some sources claim that TOTAL Tejas Mk2 orders may go up to 210 units. Also, the metal cutting for the first prototype DIDN'T start in Feb 2021. It happened in Feb 2022! Which is why I am loathe to take what all she's said in this article (including rollout of the first prototype in 2022 and first flight in 2023) at face value.

It's such a pitiable state of matters, the state of the defence reporting in India.
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5720
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Kartik »

Karan M, any chance you could post the entire article that is on Janes?

Best part is that the IAF is very keen to induct the Tejas Mk2 ASAP! This is truly music to my ears! :D

Update- India sanctions Tejas Mk2 fighter project

Image
The Indian government has officially approved the Tejas Mk 2 fighter aircraft. The project has been sanctioned with INR66.17 billion (USD827 million) in funding.

The government's Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approved the project for development, flight-testing, and certification on 1 September. The Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal V R Chaudhari told local media later that same day that the project will help reverse the Indian Air Force's (IAF's) declining squadron strength.

“The development of this indigenous aircraft is much needed. It will benefit the domestic aircraft manufacturing,” ACM Chaudhari said. “The number of squadrons in the Indian Air Force is declining − so therefore this project is necessary to fill a critical capability void.”

In July 2022 ACM Chaudhari said that the IAF would seek to equip six squadrons with the Mk 2. The IAF told Janes that it would like to induct the Mk 2s as soon as possible.
Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4215
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Prem Kumar »

I hope the IAF hand-holds the project, truly acts like a partner (& not a customer), help accelerate the development/testing iterative phase and accepts the plane even if it meets only 80% of the desired capabilities in phase-1

Their actions in the coming months & years will indicate their commitment to Atmanirbharta
shaun
BRFite
Posts: 1385
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by shaun »

Kartik wrote:Karan M, any chance you could post the entire article that is on Janes?

Best part is that the IAF is very keen to induct the Tejas Mk2 ASAP! This is truly music to my ears! :D

Update- India sanctions Tejas Mk2 fighter project
The Indian government has officially approved the Tejas Mk 2 fighter aircraft. The project has been sanctioned with INR66.17 billion (USD827 million) in funding.

The government's Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approved the project for development, flight-testing, and certification on 1 September. The Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal V R Chaudhari told local media later that same day that the project will help reverse the Indian Air Force's (IAF's) declining squadron strength.

“The development of this indigenous aircraft is much needed. It will benefit the domestic aircraft manufacturing,” ACM Chaudhari said. “The number of squadrons in the Indian Air Force is declining − so therefore this project is necessary to fill a critical capability void.”

In July 2022 ACM Chaudhari said that the IAF would seek to equip six squadrons with the Mk 2. The IAF told Janes that it would like to induct the Mk 2s as soon as possible.
More Added
"With roughly 18 aircraft per squadron, we have an initial requirement for roughly about 108 aircraft,” an IAF source said.

Janes has learnt that the IAF is seeking to equip 10 squadrons in total with the Mk 2. However, it is unlikely that the aircraft will be made available to the air force before 2029−30.

The Mk 2 project completed its Critical Design Review (CDR) of the first prototype in November 2021. However, the project suffered from funding deficits, according to asource in the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

‐------------------------------------------------------------------

Development of Mk2 started in 2009 and CDR completed end of 2021 , who is to be blamed ??
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5720
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Kartik »

shaun wrote:More Added
"With roughly 18 aircraft per squadron, we have an initial requirement for roughly about 108 aircraft,” an IAF source said.

Janes has learnt that the IAF is seeking to equip 10 squadrons in total with the Mk 2. However, it is unlikely that the aircraft will be made available to the air force before 2029−30.

The Mk 2 project completed its Critical Design Review (CDR) of the first prototype in November 2021. However, the project suffered from funding deficits, according to asource in the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).


‐------------------------------------------------------------------
Development of Mk2 started in 2009 and CDR completed end of 2021 , who is to be blamed ??
Thanks for adding the remaining part of the article.

The number 108 corresponds exactly with my guesstimate based on the HAL RFP for bearings for the canards. The numbers to be produced per year are then (again taken from the HAL RFP for canard bearings):

2026 : 24
2027 : 24
2028 : 24
2029 : 24
2030 : 12

It's really good to hear these sources state that the overall numbers may go up to almost 180-200 depending on multiple factors. HAL, ADA and DRDO have their work cut out. if they succeed they could have a massive production run for the Tejas Mk2 keeping their workforce occupied on this type well into the 2030s.

As for your question about development starting in 2009, the Tejas Mk2 in the 2009-2015 timeframe was quite different from the Tejas Mk2 that emerged in 2019's Aero India. Till then we only knew of a 1m fuselage plug to increase fuel and payload was supposed to be lesser.

But the IAF being involved in the studies and requirements from the start, was able to look ahead to what it wanted to replace given the timeframes that were involved in bringing the Mk2 into production.. i.e. it's Mirage-2000s and MiG-29s as well as Jaguars and hence the payload and range requirements went up. This led to a new round of designing, which brought in the canards, IRST, wing-tip launchers, etc.

IMO, the slight delay has worked wonders in that you now have an indigenous fighter that will be a 4.5 gen medium weight fighter that meets the sweet spot of a single engine MRCA with capabilities that in some areas will exceed those of the Rafale! It inherits the pedigree of the Tejas Mk1 where it matters, such as FCS and various systems, but goes notches higher when it comes to aerodynamics where it fixes all the Tejas Mk1's aerodynamic flaws. Which is why I am very confident that this will be the IAF's workhorse for the next 3 decades.

I know I will be crying tears of joy when I see this beauty fly for the first time.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Pratyush »

This whole Mk2 debacle is on the IAF. While the Mk2 was getting ready. Nothing prevented the IAF from ordering Mk1.

But no.

So here we are.

Even now the IAF is saying that orders will be based on the production rates. As if they are buying Maggie.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Rakesh »

Kartik wrote:Karan M, any chance you could post the entire article that is on Janes?
I am not out to rain on your parade, but please do not post paid articles on BRF. All it takes is one over zealous individual at Janes to charge BRF with copyright violation and the forum will have to be shut down. The administrator of the site - Seetal R Patel - could also face legal infractions. Best avoided. But summarizing the article in one's own words is perfectly fine.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Rakesh »

BenG wrote:If IAF is really worried about squadron shortage....
Your username has been changed from Ben_5G to BenG. Thank You.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Rakesh »

shaun wrote:Janes has learnt that the IAF is seeking to equip 10 squadrons in total with the Mk 2. However, it is unlikely that the aircraft will be made available to the air force before 2029−30.
There are;

* 2.5 Mirage 2000I squadrons
* 3 MiG-29 squadrons
* 4 Jaguar squadrons

That is 9.5 squadrons right there. So 10 squadrons means a one to one replacement of the Jaguar, MiG-29UPG and Mirage 2000I fleets. Perfect. Just wonderful news. 10 squadrons is 200+ aircraft. That is a huge production order. An order of 200 airframes upfront would be better than piecemeal orders of 108 first and then 92 later.
shaun wrote:Development of Mk2 started in 2009 and CDR completed end of 2021 , who is to be blamed ??
Don't get caught up with the timeframe. Be glad that the project is underway and the IAF is inducting six (and even more) squadrons.

If the USAF can induct a fourth generation F-15EX, then there is no reason why the IAF cannot induct the Tejas Mk2. This program is vital to the AMCA's success. No Tejas Mk2 = No AMCA.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by ramana »

All the 'sources' talk only of one-to-one replacement. The real need is much higher if they have a chance to confront the PLAAF.
Sad that IAF upper command doesn't publicize the need.
It will be 200 Mk2 as was first stated in Nirmala Sitaraman's tenure.


Tejas IAF run will be 123+200= 323 was the number.
Add export orders.

Kartik, Huma is a BRF member since the early days and does follow the news here.
Am sure she will clarify.
Between her reporting and the printing, there is the typesetter.

So easy to mistype a numeral.
YashG
BRFite
Posts: 936
Joined: 22 Apr 2017 00:10

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by YashG »

If IAF goes hammer & tongs after Mk2 inductions, they will be able to even accelerate the timelines. Often customer/user pressure is best remedy to organizational delays.

Usually in all orgs there are stupid things happening that cant be called out by internal stakeholders. But external stakeholders can easily call it out and set the horse straight. Just doing that & regular review meeting at MoD for induction target would get this done. Its really in IAF's ability to put in place a cavalier, crusader type officer in higher rung to get this product inducted by some optimistic date. That optimistic date could be something that IAF chief can directly workout with MoD to get accepted pragmatically by ADA/HAL.
D.Mahesh
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 71
Joined: 02 Oct 2016 02:57

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by D.Mahesh »

bala wrote:... Let us assume for a moment that 114 order is given today... The IAF needs to establish an IAF design bureau like the Indian Navy (established in '65).

The only thing I agree is none of the engine tech nations are going to part with engine technology for India to own. That is a pipe dream not worth mentioning.
114 will not happen. Best C'garh lobby can hope for is a small stop gap fly away order.
RM is personally holding land stars by the short & curly. 2 importiyas have already been kicked out
Sky-stars being pounded everyday. Being threatened with loss of control if they drag their feet any more. Remember C-type took over ADA 4 years back. If sky-stars don't behave, their entire design portfolio maybe handed off to sea*
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by ks_sachin »

D.Mahesh wrote:
bala wrote:... Let us assume for a moment that 114 order is given today... The IAF needs to establish an IAF design bureau like the Indian Navy (established in '65).

The only thing I agree is none of the engine tech nations are going to part with engine technology for India to own. That is a pipe dream not worth mentioning.
114 will not happen. Best C'garh lobby can hope for is a small stop gap fly away order.
RM is personally holding land stars by the short & curly. 2 importiyas have already been kicked out
Sky-stars being pounded everyday. Being threatened with loss of control if they drag their feet any more. Remember C-type took over ADA 4 years back. If sky-stars don't behave, their entire design portfolio maybe handed off to sea*
I know it is unfashionable but the point of language and communication is to be understood and understand - therefore can you talk in a language all can understand? Else half of this is gibberish.
Who is C-type?
What is a sky-star design portfolio?
How can the sea swallow the sky?
Haridas
BRFite
Posts: 878
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 07:53

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Haridas »

114 will not happen. Best C'garh lobby can hope for is a small stop gap fly away order.
RM is personally holding land stars by the short & curly. 2 importiyas have already been kicked out
Sky-stars being pounded everyday. Being threatened with loss of control if they drag their feet any more. Remember C-type took over ADA 4 years back. If sky-stars don't behave, their entire design portfolio maybe handed off to sea*
sky-stars will still be responsible for bird aerobatics at airshows, right? :twisted:
Haridas
BRFite
Posts: 878
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 07:53

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Haridas »

ks_sachin wrote:How can the sea swallow the sky?
Like in khanland, the marines do the fighting, hawai-fauj sit on their buns waiting for dooms clock to hit a bell.

Size transformation from third leg to crownjewel banana.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by ramana »

ks_sachin wrote:
D.Mahesh wrote:
114 will not happen. Best C'garh lobby can hope for is a small stop gap fly away order.
RM is personally holding land stars by the short & curly. 2 importiyas have already been kicked out
Sky-stars being pounded everyday. Being threatened with loss of control if they drag their feet any more. Remember C-type took over ADA 4 years back. If sky-stars don't behave, their entire design portfolio maybe handed off to sea*
I know it is unfashionable but the point of language and communication is to be understood and understand - therefore can you talk in a language all can understand? Else half of this is gibberish.
Who is C-type?
What is a sky-star design portfolio?
How can the sea swallow the sky?

Sachin, He has said enough. Of course, you can think it's gibberish.
fanne
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4282
Joined: 11 Feb 1999 12:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by fanne »

True that the post is full of info.
ashishvikas
BRFite
Posts: 850
Joined: 17 Oct 2016 14:18

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by ashishvikas »

Rakhwale episode on Tejas Mark 2

Haridas
BRFite
Posts: 878
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 07:53

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Haridas »

ashishvikas wrote:Rakhwale episode on Tejas Mark 2
Sick to hear stupid nincompoops, painful to hear it.

No matter even if one forgets Shiv Arror's earlier motivated campaign to trash and burn Tejas 10 yrs ago; the kala baqra is totally out of his depth. Pathetic :roll:
Anujan
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7806
Joined: 27 May 2007 03:55

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Anujan »

He had a multi part article in rediff trashing the DRDO many years ago

I still recall idiotic questions like "WHY IS DRDO RESEARCHING FOOD?!!!!!" (How did he think soldiers ate? Nearest restaurant? And remember the Jawans are posted everywhere from frigid siachen to boiling Rajasthan)
Nalla Baalu
BRFite
Posts: 153
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 07:16
Location: Yerramandi, Dhoolpeta

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Nalla Baalu »

Anujan wrote:He had a multi part article in rediff trashing the DRDO many years ago

I still recall idiotic questions like "WHY IS DRDO RESEARCHING FOOD?!!!!!" (How did he think soldiers ate? Nearest restaurant? And remember the Jawans are posted everywhere from frigid siachen to boiling Rajasthan)
It was a 5-part lifafa series passwd off as a critique to mark his 'arangetram / ranga-pravesham' into defence affairs. He rightly got conferred moniker ERROR by BRF. There are some of us who go gaga over him oflate but his mask slips up once in a while. His job at IT is to counter-balance excessively partisian tilt of puri with a veneer of nationalism. Makes me wonder what portion of the sales proceeds of his book series India's Most Fearless does he give back to the martyrs?!
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by ramana »

Zero.
He was among the first to post bloodied pictures of Wing Co Abhinandan on Indian media.
When IAF went to meet next of kin they mentioned this Error spreading pictures.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by ks_sachin »

Name me one truly objective journalist, and I will show you how to turn water into oil.
Journalist independence is a myth as is true objectivity.
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18190
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/15695 ... -sj012ZGtw ---> Tejas Mk2. The impact of soft power has been incredible. Thank you Influencers, Enthusiasts, Graphic Designers, Illustrators, Patriots. Now, the industry has to perform to it's promise. Picture Credit @Kuntal__biswas

Image
KSingh
BRFite
Posts: 504
Joined: 16 Jun 2020 17:52

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by KSingh »

Rakesh wrote:
shaun wrote:Janes has learnt that the IAF is seeking to equip 10 squadrons in total with the Mk 2. However, it is unlikely that the aircraft will be made available to the air force before 2029−30.
There are;

* 2.5 Mirage 2000I squadrons
* 3 MiG-29 squadrons
* 4 Jaguar squadrons

That is 9.5 squadrons right there. So 10 squadrons means a one to one replacement of the Jaguar, MiG-29UPG and Mirage 2000I fleets. Perfect. Just wonderful news. 10 squadrons is 200+ aircraft. That is a huge production order. An order of 200 airframes upfront would be better than piecemeal orders of 108 first and then 92 later.
shaun wrote:Development of Mk2 started in 2009 and CDR completed end of 2021 , who is to be blamed ??
Don't get caught up with the timeframe. Be glad that the project is underway and the IAF is inducting six (and even more) squadrons.

If the USAF can induct a fourth generation F-15EX, then there is no reason why the IAF cannot induct the Tejas Mk2. This program is vital to the AMCA's success. No Tejas Mk2 = No AMCA.
Order 108 then 92 later? Proves IAF has learned NOTHING from LCA Mk.1 program as far as economies of scale and production capacity is concerned. They are still acting as an import customer


This order + follow on options ONLY works when buying from foreign OEMs who have an existing production run that doesn’t depend entirely on the IAF for orders


So 200 split between 108 and 90 doesn’t mean HAL will be able to go for 30++ annual production for 6-7 years from the outset but wil have to cap in the low 20s and stretch production over a decade (and hope tranche 2 is ordered before tranche 1’s production run ends)

Remember this is beyond just HAL, even for Mk.1 >70% of LRUs are made by private players they cannot pay their staff in empty promises from IAF, they need firm and legally binding contracts with upfront payments.


It’s getting really hard to simply excuse this as incompetence anymore. If you wanted to sabotage a project it wouldn’t look too dissimilar to this.
Roop
BRFite
Posts: 664
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Roop »

KSingh wrote:It’s getting really hard to simply excuse this as incompetence anymore. If you wanted to sabotage a project it wouldn’t look too dissimilar to this.
Well, let me just quote two sources here:

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.

and

Grey's Law: A sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

I often think of these two principles when looking, with frustration and despair, at the Indian neta/mantri/babu complex performance on this topic (defence acquisition).
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5720
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by Kartik »

IR just blowing away the "my eyeball Mk1 is superior than that of everyone at ADA with their analysis" BS that Prodyut Das has been spouting on Twitter..just an amazing thread that is worth being reproduced entirely here.

Twitter link
JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3113
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Tejas Mk2 Medium Weight Fighter: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Post by JTull »

Kartik wrote:IR just blowing away the "my eyeball Mk1 is superior than that of everyone at ADA with their analysis" BS that Prodyut Das has been spouting on Twitter..just an amazing thread that is worth being reproduced entirely here.

Twitter link
I would have respected his arguments if he had lead with his real reason of distrust in ADA's ability and then followed up the technical conversation around the Intake Buzz as an example.

Unfortunately he lead with technical discussion and didn't handle it well when IR started picking his logic apart. If it was the other way then he could have swallowed his pride and accepted responses from better informed individuals, and still held on to his distrust of ADA.
Post Reply