Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby gaurav.p » 07 Jun 2019 00:10

So many beautiful photoss. Courtesy: FB page of tejas. :twisted:
More than a month long of hard toil at INS, HANSA..
Two Naval Prototypes, both the trainer and the fighter..
Tireless hours of development flight testing starting from the first light of the day to deep into the evening..
Volumes of test flight data analysis with improved techniques..

Pioneers of Test flying, best of engineers and technicians and the so called backroom boys and girls,
summerised a massive effort on LCA Naval test flying which will shortly lead to that final WOW moment.

#NavalLCA #ADA #HAL #NFTC #TejasOfficialArchive #IndiaNavalAviation

Note : All photographs are exclusively copyrighted by ADA. Editing, Copying or Recreating the images and write ups are deemed offensive


Classic sight that has welcomed disembarking carrier pilots since 1960. The dissimilar twins against the backdrop of "Grande Island" at the threshold of INS Hansa.
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Moody study of NP2 against the Goan coastline, waiting for the monsoon.
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An Ideal carrier air wing? Some day maybe.
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Dabolim maybe the gateway to the typical Goan holiday but it remains the Navy fighter pilot's "Fighter Town".
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Hook Down, running in to "Slot", break into the carrier circuit.
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Night approaches to hone flying skills.
Showing off the newly installed Angle of Attack and undercarriage position indicator lights.
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Just eye candy.
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Almost ready for the big one (flight arrestment). Once deemed ready, the arrester wire will be rigged.
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Hot Refueling, the key to maintaining flight testing tempo. Now available even at night. Standby for "Hot Switching" of pilots next.
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Live "Cable Bruise" test for the tyres.
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Ground to Air photography for flow visualisation of fuel jettison
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Poor Man's Optical Landing Aid (POMOLA) on the right to enhance safety for steeper glideslope test points.
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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 07 Jun 2019 00:32

My God! What pictures!! Thank you so much for posting them all. Can’t get over how beautiful the Naval LCA looks in flight. Both single and twin seaters.

I really am looking forward to seeing these testing off of INS Vikramaditya.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Vips » 07 Jun 2019 18:44

Simply Spectacular, especially the night photos.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby titash » 07 Jun 2019 19:57

Amazing pics. Specially the one with both aircraft flying by the island. Looking forward to carrier trials.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Manish_P » 07 Jun 2019 20:51

+1

Captivating photos. Good captions too.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Srikanth P » 07 Jun 2019 23:46

https://www.facebook.com/tejas.lca/vide ... 460358007/

New video on Tejas facebook page....

"A Video testimony to the month long ardous trials undertaken by Team LCA (Navy).

Watch carefully, each frame has meaning and those with hawk eyes, know what we mean.

The video encapsulates our massive effort from the recent outing at INS Hansa, highlighting the efforts from Test Pilots, Test Engineers, System Designers, System monitoring engineers, Instrumentation Engineers, Aircraft Supervisors, Technicians,whole lot of ground staffs from GSL, INAS Hansa supporting staffs and the list continues. The team has put all the efforts to provide all the cutting edge technologies, starting from innovative flight data analysis techniques to high speed networked imaging systems to extensive instrumentation schemes on the aircraft to provide every single bit of information on the naval flight test effort, to the flight test crew to achieve all they have been striving for mitigating all the risks envolved.

Video creation and compilation : Dax

#NavalLCA #ADA #HAL #TejasOfficialArchive

Disclaimer: The clip is exclusively copyrighted by ADA. Copying, Editing and recreating in any manner is strictly prohibited."

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 07 Jun 2019 23:51

Excellent video! Thank you so much for posting. Loved it.

@gaurav: excellent photos! thanks!

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 08 Jun 2019 00:03

These pictures need to be discussed in more detail here.
1. Glad that you all liked the image captions. Comes from a TP. Another TP commented. This makes me happy. Because ADA’s apathy to any kind of marketing is something I don’t understand. SAAB has more pictures and brochures on the Sea Gripen. ADA wants people to “focus” on work.
2. These are the first pictures of the NP1 and NP2 in the same frame that I have seen. Not just that the Mig-29Ks joined the party. It shows the Navy’s support for the program and the feeling that Navy pilots have towards this upcoming baby.
3. There are lots of new things. First look at the LEVcons. As has been discussed earlier, they are deflected (currently by the pilot) based on the flight condition.
4. They are now equipped to fully operate during day and night. The lights on the LGs are cues for the landing officer on deck.
5. They have already practiced touch and go with the arrestor hook deployed. It was very precise. Had the wires been there it would have been a trapped. The airplane lifted off soon afterwards meaning that bolters will be fine.
6. They have checked the tire bruising with wires deployed (hook not deployed).
7. The only thing left is live trap, and then onto VikAd

I am almost tearing up. Wonder the men who are part of this feel. Their backs bear so many lashmarks!

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Jun 2019 00:09

You just missed one thing ..when?

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 08 Jun 2019 00:11

What about the angle of approach? Have they achieved target gradient?

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 08 Jun 2019 00:40

ArjunPandit wrote:You just missed one thing ..when?


They will trap in August. I don't know about VikAd. There are more logistics involved there. Whenever that happens, I will take my family out for a seafood dinner.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby gaurav.p » 08 Jun 2019 10:49

OT: in the marketing stuff there is a lot of room for improvement. All the ~12 photos that were released were enough for ~6 weeks of weekly updates. ADA folks with the landmark furgality of desi cos need to learn a thing from grip-pen stable. Need to do weekly social engineering.

Noob question = what is with the declaration of copyright with ADA. What will happen if it get copied somewhere? The logos are already present. They aren't commercialising the image. Rather they should outsource the images to some company and make all kinds of collectible stuff as a yearly affair.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby suryag » 08 Jun 2019 11:23

Sir - there is arrested recovery towards the end of the video(two shots)

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 08 Jun 2019 12:21

Those traps are not from landings. The aircraft just rolled over it at near landing speeds.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby K Mehta » 08 Jun 2019 14:27

There is one arrested landing, with the aircraft coming to a complete halt. And some technical analysis of it

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby fanne » 08 Jun 2019 17:35

There is an interesting problem. The hook hits the ground while landing, and then bounces back (before it hits the ground again). Can the plane roll over all the 2-3 arrestor cable, with the hook still in the air from the bounce and when it comes back, there is no cable?

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 08 Jun 2019 22:36

The height of the arrestor wire is higher than the height of the bounce.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Philip » 09 Jun 2019 21:59

Does the " cable bruise" pic depict the two-seater?

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 10 Jun 2019 04:47

Yes sir

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 10 Jun 2019 20:22

fanne wrote:There is an interesting problem. The hook hits the ground while landing, and then bounces back (before it hits the ground again). Can the plane roll over all the 2-3 arrestor cable, with the hook still in the air from the bounce and when it comes back, there is no cable?


Precisely my thoughts. Perhaps they have already adjusted the hydraulic jack force that keeps the hook in position to remove the bounce..? or are planning to do that..? Or as IR said, it doesn't matter as the wires are kept a few inches above the deck. I saw some Deck landing slo mo videos of F/A-18 and F35, the hook doesn't look like it bounces. But the video we saw for NLCA was one of many test landings. So difficult to make up mind based on single data point.

F35 seemed to have some issue with hook engagement early in the test program. The hook is placed close to the MLG and apperently the wheels passing over the wire interfered with hook engagement as the wire didn't have enough time to get back to proper position.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby brar_w » 10 Jun 2019 20:27

Both the F-35 and X-47 had hook issues that required re-design. Faulty NAVAIR supplied data was at least partly to blame for both those programs.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby chetak » 10 Jun 2019 21:35

JayS wrote:
fanne wrote:There is an interesting problem. The hook hits the ground while landing, and then bounces back (before it hits the ground again). Can the plane roll over all the 2-3 arrestor cable, with the hook still in the air from the bounce and when it comes back, there is no cable?


Precisely my thoughts. Perhaps they have already adjusted the hydraulic jack force that keeps the hook in position to remove the bounce..? or are planning to do that..? Or as IR said, it doesn't matter as the wires are kept a few inches above the deck. I saw some Deck landing slo mo videos of F/A-18 and F35, the hook doesn't look like it bounces. But the video we saw for NLCA was one of many test landings. So difficult to make up mind based on single data point.

F35 seemed to have some issue with hook engagement early in the test program. The hook is placed close to the MLG and apperently the wheels passing over the wire interfered with hook engagement as the wire didn't have enough time to get back to proper position.




As the MLG pounds into the deck, the pilot automatically/instinctively slams open the throttle fully so that in case the hook misses all the four wires, the aircraft still has the energy to get airborne again in the remaining length of deck available.

The hook, therefore, engages at almost full engine power, delibrately applied.

At times, the wire has snapped after engagement, sometimes with fatal consequences.

Deck landings are generally described as controlled crashes.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Philip » 11 Jun 2019 04:28

Why a STOVL bird is so safe while landing.We should've embarked upon a JV either east or west for such a bird.Given a 3 carrier navy ambitions, at least 100 to120+ such aircraft would've been required, plus another 60 to 80 or so for the 4 amphibs.180 to 200 aircraft is a huge requirement.The JV partner would also have its own requirements, possibly equal. Right now the only STOVL bird available is the JSF, but it would be another firang import with no desi stake in it at all. Cats have a huge power requirement, EMALS even more, requiring N-powered CVs.The cost factor alone scuttles the prospect.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby MeshaVishwas » 11 Jun 2019 16:32

MOD NOTE: Please place your comments, link of article, etc at the *TOP* of your post. Please see below.

=====================

Good Report.

Landing Tejas Jet On An Aircraft Carrier: Small Team Fights Big Deadline-Vishnu NDTV
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/landing ... ai-rum=off

New Delhi: In six months from now, one of India's most ambitious fighter aircraft development programmes may encounter an existential dilemma.
In December, the Defence Ministry is likely to take a call on whether to shut down or continue investing in the project to develop an aircraft carrier-based variant of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas.

The government, which has already committed Rs 3,500 crore to develop the fighter, needs a straight answer. Will the prototypes of the Tejas-N (Naval), now being tested, eventually result in a multi-role carrier-borne fighter good enough to hold its own against emerging threats in the Indian Ocean region? And can advanced variants of the prototypes, called the LCA-N Mk-2, be developed, manufactured and deployed within a finite period of five to seven years?


Left with no choice but to speed up their development programme, a small core team of pilots, engineers and design-team members from the Indian Navy, the Aeronautical Design Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is fighting against time to clear key development goals - the biggest one, at the moment, is to ensure that the 10.5-tonne fighter, flying at a speed of just under 260 kms (140 knots), can approach a shore-based replica of the deck of an aircraft carrier, descend rapidly, land, snare an arresting wire on the runway with a hook mounted in its fuselage and come to a violent halt in just 130 metres. That's what it takes to make an 'arrested landing' on the deck of an aircraft carrier, a feat achieved by a handful of fighter jets developed in the US, Russia, the UK, France and, more recently, China.

Achieving this successfully, over and over again at the Shore Based Test Facility in Goa, will validate one of the most important design features on the LCA-N - its ability to handle the incredible stresses of making an 'arrested landing' on the deck of an aircraft carrier. It is only once the shore tests are successful that naval test pilots leading the development effort on the LCA-N prototypes can graduate to the next step - making an actual landing on India's only operational aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya.

Key members of the LCA-N development team whom NDTV has spoken to say they have flown 60 sorties in approximately the last one month at the Goa test facility and are ready to commence the key landing trials once monsoon is over. To eventually make an approach onto the deck of INS Vikramaditya, LCA-N engineers and pilots need to be confident that the fighter can slam down onto the deck of a carrier at a 'sink rate' (rate of descent) of approximately 7.5 metres per second (1,500 feet per minute) without being damaged. Though they may not test the fighter to this limit immediately, they need to successfully prove that they can land with a sink rate of 5.6 metres per second to be qualified for carrier trials. At the moment, the jet has been tested with a sink rate of 5.1 metres per second. Engineers and pilots in the project are certain that they are on track to meet their landing certification target.

Assuming, the LCA-N is qualified to make an approach onto the deck of the INS Vikramaditya, there are still two key hurdles that need to be overcome. Test pilots operating the fighter will need to experience, first hand, the impact of displaced air over the deck of the aircraft carrier moments before it touches down. For a safe arrested landing, the LCA-N will need to hold a near-constant air speed of between 240-260 km (130-140 knots) as it makes its final approach, something which can easily be impacted by variable wind conditions over the deck of the ship. To experience these conditions, test pilots will perform several touch-and- goes on the deck of the Vikramaditya, where they land on the ship but immediately take off without coming to a full stop. A full-fledged arrested landing on the aircraft carrier will only happen once test pilots are certain of the stability of the fighter in making its landing approach and their ability to hold a constant speed as they come in to land.


There is another, major technical concern which could impact the development of the LCA-N. The arrestor gear on INS Vikramaditya, the mechanical system used to rapidly slow down an aircraft as it lands, has key design differences from the gear installed at the Shore Based Test Facility where the LCA-N is now being tested. Key members of the LCA-N project team are hopeful that this does not impact the project but they will not be certain until they actually land on the ship.

Finally, the biggest X factor of them all - what a key member of the Tejas-N team describes as the "Acquisition versus Development debate." Though the Navy continues to back the LCA-N project for now, it is also keen to procure 57 fully developed fighters from the US or France and is looking closely at the Boeing F/A-18 E/F 'Hornet' and the Dassault Rafale-M, both of which are tried and tested fighters used extensively in combat. The key question - Will funds be available for both a Tejas-N acquisition and the acquisition of a Western ship-borne fighter?

Members of the Team Tejas-N told NDTV they are often asked, "Why do you need to rebuild something that has been built?" The answer to this basic question may go a long way in determining the government's commitment to Make in India, its flagship defence production model besides providing a future to India's most challenging and promising fighter aircraft project currently under development.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby sajaym » 11 Jun 2019 18:07

MeshaVishwas wrote:Landing Tejas Jet On An Aircraft Carrier: Small Team Fights Big Deadline-Vishnu NDTV
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/landing ... ai-rum=off

The key question - Will funds be available for both a Tejas-N acquisition and the acquisition of a Western ship-borne fighter?

Part ownership can be a solution. The Indian Navy should fund the 57 aircraft purchase along with the Indian Airforce and offer joint ownership of these 57 aircraft or the 45 Mig-29Ks to the AF. Carrier borne aircraft are basically STOL (Short Take-off Landing) aircraft. As such, such aircraft (I'm referring to the 57 new ones or the 45 old Mig-29Ks) are more suitable to be used on the highway strips which the airforce is anyways planning to build all over India. Anyways, all the carrier jets will not be based on the carrier full time. Squadrons are rotated onto the carrier. So the squadron which is anyway based on land, can be assigned for highway strip duty and can fill in the numbers gap of the India Airforce.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby sajaym » 11 Jun 2019 18:13

sajaym wrote: Carrier borne aircraft are basically STOL (Short Take-off Landing) aircraft. As such, such aircraft (I'm referring to the 57 new ones or the 45 old Mig-29Ks) are more suitable to be used on the highway strips which the airforce is anyways planning to build all over India.


Similary, the NLCA is also more suitable to be operated from highway strips. As such, the NLCA Mk1 can be marketed to countries like Vietnam, Philippines which need to face the PLAF/PLANAF threat. These countries may not have the resources to build new airbases or they might get their airbases reduced to dust within the first day of a war with China. As such, it makes sense for them to have a cheap (comparatively) fighter which can be operated from highway strips. Mind you, the Vietnamese are people who used to lift their fighter jets from one place to another during the Vietnam War.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 11 Jun 2019 19:36

Interesting that an import shill is batting for a Made In India jet fighter!!!!

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 11 Jun 2019 19:52

Philip, Lets start from basics.
What areas does IN need a carrier?
1) Arabian Sea/Persian Gulf
2) Bay of Bengal
3) West Indian Ocean/East African Coast
4) Straits of Malacca and beyond
Do all these need a full carrier or will a helicopter carrier suffice?

I believe in some of the 4 areas of interest helicopter carrier will be more appropriate.
Bay of Bengal (2) to clean the seas of lurking subs.
Besides Port AN is already there as a land based carrier.
Next is East Africa/West IO (3). And the base in Madagascar.
Expected operations will be Search and rescue/ Natural disaster assistance,
Here again a helicopter carrier would be useful.
This leaves us 2 areas that need a full aircraft carrier.
So having 3 aircraft carriers will give margin and have a spare one to deploy as needed.

Then what type of aircraft carrier should IN get?
- The short sighted acquisition of Harriers has stunted the IN aviation vision.
- These a/c needed the ski jump feature and now even Mig-29 needs to sue this.
I prefer catapult to leverage full aircraft capability. Whether it should be steam(old technology and boilers) or EMALS is a trade study.
Next come what type of aircraft?
A number of factors come into play: mission, aircraft lifts on the carrier, available technology.
Last will dictate how many planes? Reliable technology means can have lesser planes.
General rule is 1000 tons displacement per plane.
And most likely the aircraft carriers will carry mixed fleet of aircraft and helicopters.
I still don't understand why 57 a/c is chosen as a number.
Its an odd lot and will drive up the costs.
Better option is to have 60 and thus 3 full strength squadrons.

So I get 3 aircraft carriers+ 2 helicopter carriers.
And 60 planes.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 11 Jun 2019 19:57

Key point is Naval LCA is ready for arrested landings.
Looming in background is the IN requirement for 57 a/c. Need to see if they fit the carrier lifts. Naval LCA will fit due to wing span.
Naval aviation is bitten by IAF bug of only the best.
Why 57 a/c odd lot number?

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby fanne » 11 Jun 2019 20:27

I am amused. Rafale is our silver bullet, and all we can afford is 36 for our IAF (where apart from being the most frontline aircraft, it will also be used for strategic role - with grand total of 36 planes). Now we will buy 57 of these for IN, to do what exactly? Enforce see blockage of TSP? When all of its shore based installation is within reach of multiple IAF planes (270 Sukhois and some 100 Jags). Our guard our Air craft carries. If that is the purpose, during war, park them, hide them and use the 57 Rafale more judiciously to pond TSP or China (We are not attacking them from South China sea). If we had infinite money, yes 57 Rafale -M made sense, but if we can afford additional 57, I think it will be more useful for IAF and the country. Sargodha is much more nearer than Pathankot than from Arabian Sea. Even Karachi could be better attacked from Gujarat than from A sea.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 11 Jun 2019 21:28

MeshaVishwas wrote:Landing Tejas Jet On An Aircraft Carrier: Small Team Fights Big Deadline-Vishnu NDTV
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/landing ... ai-rum=off
New Delhi: In six months from now, one of India's most ambitious fighter aircraft development programmes may encounter an existential dilemma. In December, the Defence Ministry is likely to take a call on whether to shut down or continue investing in the project to develop an aircraft carrier-based variant of the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas.

Uff, the melodrama. :roll:

The LCA Navy Program FSED phases for MK1 and Mk2 were extended till Dec 2018 in 2009. This looks like the usual program review. It would be extended with additional funding approved, as has been done with both LCA projects multiple times.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby yensoy » 11 Jun 2019 21:32

fanne wrote:I am amused. Rafale is our silver bullet, and all we can afford is 36 for our IAF (where apart from being the most frontline aircraft, it will also be used for strategic role - with grand total of 36 planes). Now we will buy 57 of these for IN, to do what exactly?


Order of 36 is for immediate delivery; it is a given that more orders for IAF will follow - with some component of Make in India - don't believe me, believe the words of RM on the floor of the house and/or ACM's interview. Sorry I don't have links, this is from my memory only. You can't really compare a long-term requirement of 57 N-Raf's based on a 3 carrier Navy vision with something which is being riveted as we speak.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 12 Jun 2019 00:21

fanne wrote:I am amused. Rafale is our silver bullet, and all we can afford is 36 for our IAF (where apart from being the most frontline aircraft, it will also be used for strategic role - with grand total of 36 planes). Now we will buy 57 of these for IN, to do what exactly? Enforce see blockage of TSP? When all of its shore based installation is within reach of multiple IAF planes (270 Sukhois and some 100 Jags). Our guard our Air craft carries. If that is the purpose, during war, park them, hide them and use the 57 Rafale more judiciously to pond TSP or China (We are not attacking them from South China sea). If we had infinite money, yes 57 Rafale -M made sense, but if we can afford additional 57, I think it will be more useful for IAF and the country. Sargodha is much more nearer than Pathankot than from Arabian Sea. Even Karachi could be better attacked from Gujarat than from A sea.


A good medium sized fighter for the IN is required for the primary role of fleet air defence. While the IN has ships and subs that are capable of using LACM Brahmos or Klub, they can be attacked by PN Atlantique, Mirage, JF-17 and P-3C Orions with Harpoons and the Chinese C-something missile. The range of these AShMs is over a 100 km and if the target is acquired at over 100 km, nothing can prevent them from launching saturation attacks at our high value assets. This is what the primary role of the IN's fighter fleet would be- to screen any airborne threat from approaching anywhere near the CBG. With Meteor missiles, the Rafale positioned in front of the CBG could tackle possible threats well before they can get within range of firing their AShMs. There are thousands of crores worth of equipment and thousands of sailors positioned in a CBG. They need to be protected so that they can then cause punitive damage to the PN and to Karachi or Gwadar ports.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby fanne » 12 Jun 2019 04:17

Sure and that good plane cannot be as costly as Rafale, Mig29 or LCA-N (LCA N will severely be short legged but in time can be more reliable and advanced then Mig 29, or a later version/follow up can have better endurance) is as good as what Navy could perhaps get with the budget that we have. Imagine 36 + 57 = 93 Rafale in IAF colors. We will dominate both western and northern border for at least 1 decade till PLAAF stealth fighter truly become stealthy and start out classing Rafale. But with 36 IAF Rafale and 57 IN Rafale on a A/C, that would be a tough ask. Most likely IN Rafale will fly off from IAF bases when the balloon goes up, but then why not let IAF have it.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 12 Jun 2019 04:25

Is India vulnerable only from the northeast and northwest? If yes, then stop spending on the Navy. If not, then I don't see your point!

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby fanne » 12 Jun 2019 04:33

And Btw all of these -PN Atlantique, Mirage, JF-17 and P-3C Orions, can be taken care by NLCA, Mig 29k and of course Rafale. In fact Rafale will be an overkill.
The current Mig29k serviceability is respectable 60%-70% (from 30% I guess, when IN was rightly pi$$ed). Let HAL/IN/Private player with or without help of Roos own the design etc. and continuously improve it. A reliable Mig29K meets our requirement perfectly (including budgetary consideration).

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby fanne » 12 Jun 2019 04:47

It is vulnerable from many side, including from inside. The question is not of should we have an A/C or not or only Rafale-M will solve our problem. I guess we can have a very lively discussion on BRF on A/C utility (why did the mighty Soviet Union did not invest in A/C?).
But putting that aside, assuming we will have 2-3 A/C and use them effectively in war, RELIABLE Mig29k (not the one with 30% reliability) or NLCA ++ (++ for endurance and useful load only otherwise it is good) is good enough. 57 Rafale M are greaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttt, but would be very costly. I doubt they will ever get approved. If we had that kind of money, IAF will get 50+ Rafale first (after 36) then IN. Unless we find a pile of money and order some 160 (the original plan during UPA, with make in India, which was junked as too costly), I don't see IN getting any Rafale.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 12 Jun 2019 05:36


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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Philip » 12 Jun 2019 08:31

29Ks, if reliable as Fanne says is the safest and most cost-effective option.Another batch with improved eqpt. found on the MIG-35 would suffice for now.The IN's fleet of combat fighters is a small one and logistics, cost, etc. of supporting anything other than a perfected NLCA would be prohibitive. Secondly, none of the western fighters can be accomodated on thd lifys of our two ACs.
The IN needs to get real, smell the brine and concentrate upon immediate measures to augment the depleting and aging sub fleet first, instead of wet dreams about another large carrier when we can station and operate any type of aircraft on INS India and almost all on INS Andamans.

The 6 month deadline for the NLCA to complete its key trials before a decision is taken on its future is one hopes going to be succesful as the NLCA could even operate from the 4 planned amphibs if we tweak the design.
If this is done, we would have 2+4 ( light) carriers, a goodly number with which to sanitise the IOR and operate even in the Indo- China Sea.

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Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby MeshaVishwas » 12 Jun 2019 10:00

Philip wrote:
The 6 month deadline for the NLCA to complete its key trials before a decision is taken on its future is one hopes going to be succesful as the NLCA could even operate from the 4 planned amphibs if we tweak the design.
If this is done, we would have 2+4 ( light) carriers, a goodly number with which to sanitise the IOR and operate even in the Indo- China Sea.

Interesting idea.Hopefully someone at NHQ is thinking along such lines.


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