Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4327
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 16 Sep 2019 00:21

srin wrote:Simple youtube search showed me this on USN Carrier

Rare but it happens. And so, there is a lot of reason to be outside the "snap zone".


Reading earlier posts reminded me of this exact video. Would have posted but you beat me to it.

Shit happens despite all precautions. So better try to be safe as much as possible.

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4327
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 16 Sep 2019 00:23

SaiK wrote:
JayS wrote:Arrester hook engagement from the 2nd Recovery.

Did the hook engagement happened when the MLG were still yet to touch down..?? It looks like they are off the ground a few inches still. Or I have I gone blind..??

your eyes are crystal clear. this would be the first arrestor cable, and pretty sure it would have landed by the time it hits the secondary (shown in the pic as well - the dark line that I think it is.)

here is the proof:
Kakarat wrote:

At around 0.04 sec of the video, it hits the primary. At around 0.5, you see nTejas cross the secondary. watch it in 0.25 playback speed.

Q: are these videos intentionally distributed with poor resolution/quality?


To be clear, the picture is of second landing at it looks like it hit the deck after the first wire.

The videos out there are of first landing. That time NP1 hit the deck before the first wire.

BTW Tejas FB page has posted HD video.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36388
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby SaiK » 16 Sep 2019 00:29

https://www.facebook.com/tejas.lca/vide ... 41/?type=1

this one? It does take the primary arrestor cable in this video. check at 0:15

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4327
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 16 Sep 2019 00:37

Both landings manage to engage first wire itself. Its just the touchdown point is different, it seems. They would be testing all extreme points of coarse. Its important because when deck is pitching heavily, the touch down point can change drastically for same glide path. And the aircraft may engage 1st or 3rd wire even if aim is middle one.

Surprizingly STBF has 2 wires only. Not 3, like INS Vik has.

SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36388
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby SaiK » 16 Sep 2019 00:42

STBF can afford to test with 2, and it helps our pilots to train better as well. more precision perhaps..[ps: if it fails to hit two, then be prepared for take-off!]

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5677
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Dileep » 16 Sep 2019 07:27

The possibility of 'cable snap' is drilled into the USN sailors manning the carrier deck, and it featured prominently in the TV program (forgot the name) to such extent that it got 'drilled into' my head too. When we made a test system for torpedo guidance cable, I had to slap the designers to build a safety cage and mandate its use. Lo and behold, the cable (less than an mm thick, but strong enough to hang someone) snaps during the very first test and hit the cage with a sharp 'tinn' sound. It would have resulted in someone standing around getting a nice whip welt.

Safety is paramount. More when you are testing things.

Dileep
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5677
Joined: 04 Apr 2005 08:17
Location: Dera Mahab Ali धरा महाबलिस्याः درا مهاب الي

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Dileep » 16 Sep 2019 07:32

USN Carriers have four wires IIRC, and pilots aim (rather, the guidance system makes them to aim) to hit the second wire.

CSIO has successfully developed the optical landing system. I have seen the demo myself. Not sure of its future/deployment status.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 20114
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Philip » 16 Sep 2019 08:17

A lighter NLCA than a 29K should not pose too much of a snapping problem oc the arr. wires with lesser stress on the cables.

ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2952
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 16 Sep 2019 17:16

phillipji wouldnt velocity be a more important factor than mass..kinetic energy would be (1/2)mv^2. I guess the single engine fighter NLCA would have a lesser velocity. THat said, it shoulddepend upon many things like descent profile, angle of descent. Problems like these need to used as examples for elementary physics or introductory engineering physics....

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4327
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 16 Sep 2019 17:42

Dileep wrote:USN Carriers have four wires IIRC, and pilots aim (rather, the guidance system makes them to aim) to hit the second wire.

CSIO has successfully developed the optical landing system. I have seen the demo myself. Not sure of its future/deployment status.


Most of the USN carries have 4 wires but a few including USN Ford have 3 wires.

Its 2nd wire for 3-wire system and 3rd wire for 4-wire system which is aimed for. 3rd wire because it give more allowance for short landing which is more dangerous than overshooting the wires.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7726
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 17 Sep 2019 00:58

The touchdown point was not part of the test. Going at 250 kmh a few mtrs is outside human controlability

At STBF, they are not going to increase the sink rate beyond 4.5 mtrs/second. It is related to headwind conditions. They are confident with this sink rate for successful traps on VikAd  

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4550
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 17 Sep 2019 05:22

Indranil, could you please try and confirm whether the following still holds good or not? This article dates back to August 2018

New wings for the albatross- Vayu Aerospace

According to Commodore Balaji, design work on the LCA Mk.2 was moving apace with some major design changes envisaged to the intakes and fuselage so as to accommodate the GE F414 engine, a batch of which have recently been delivered to ADA. The LCA Mk.2’s wings will be moved out board by about 350mm, increasing the space between fuselage and wings, thus optimising load transfer and allowing for an increase of fuel (700 kg) in the central fuselage.

Detailed design should be complete by 2019 and requisite raw material had already been ordered by ADA which aims to carry out the LCA Mk.2’s first flight in 2020-21. The full scale mockup of the LCA Navy Mk.2 should be ready by early 2018.
Making a direct reference to Saab, the intrepid designers at ADA believe that they are “at the same stage’ in terms of time and effort as are their Swedish counterparts with their Gripen M.


He summarised that “whilst the LCA Navy Mk1, was an adaption of the Air Force version to the Naval role and gave valuable inputs in the core carrier suitability technologies of ski-jump take-off and arrested recovery, the LCA Navy Mk2 is a new design conceptualised to be optimised for carrier borne application. The configuration is expected to provide a significant enhancement in terms of performance capability with aerodynamic and mass optimisation”.

Commodore Balaji emphasised that “significant design effort has been put in to realise such an aircraft that is capable of take-off from the ski jump with much heavier payloads as compared to the LCA Navy Mk1. The landing gear complexity has been reduced; consequently there is a mass optimisation. The arrester hook installation has been optimised and blends with the bottom structure of the rear fuselage.

These steps are considered as an essential step towards any potential twin engined deck based aircraft development in the country to be taken up in the future”.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7726
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 17 Sep 2019 05:32

Tejas Mk2 news is true. LCA NAvy Mk2 is a sad story. The challenge is not technical. I will leave it at that.

Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4218
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Manish_Sharma » 17 Sep 2019 06:09

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/indian- ... first-trap

Indian Navy’s Light Combat Aircraft: Love At First Trap!
by K P Sanjeev Kumar

Sep 16, 2019, 6:32 pm

Recall the old proverb: ‘success has many fathers. Defeat is an orphan’. Nowhere does it ring as true as in aviation. Here, you are only as good as your last landing; even if it means you are ‘arrested’ upon landing.

On 13 September 2019, a typically wet, rain-washed morning at INS Hansa, a small group of engineers, scientists and flight test crew cheered as Mao (Commodore Jaideep Maolankar), experimental test pilot (ETP) from Indian Navy’s light combat aircraft (LCA) project office neatly trapped an arrester wire at the shore-based test facility (SBTF) in Goa.

The test point, an intermediate but significant milestone for which a small team toiled for years, was over in less than 3 seconds from touchdown. The momentum of LCA (Navy) touching down at over 130 knots was ‘arrested’ and brought to null in copybook naval fashion.

It built momentum for a new phase that will see action shift to a carrier deck soon. The tail-hook on LCA (Navy) and the arrester gear system at SBTF are stepping stones for Navy-ADA’s ambitious deck-based fighter programme.

Naysayers can now take a skin-dip in INS Hansa’s Spring Beach, a few miles off SBTF. The test point was repeated successfully very next day by naval ETP Captain Shivnath Dahiya, again with flawless precision. He described his moment as “truly a magnificent day; a lifetime experience”.

For flight test crew and designers, these few minutes provide reams of data for deep, scientific analyses. Out of that will emerge a tentative decision if the bird is ready to mate with its ultimate partner – the aircraft carrier?

The aircraft carrier is a gigantic, floating city of man, metal, combustibles, explosives and attitude. Here, there is no room for complacency or showmanship.

Team LCA (Navy)’s achievement, something that may soon culminate into a carrier landing, was 14 long years in the making, says ‘Mao’ with a clenched fist. He measures his words with the fortitude of a man who lost flag rank only to create history. It’s serendipitous that he reads a lot of fighter pilot John Boyd.

From a historical perspective, it is truly a landmark achievement for India and our naval aviation. We have been operating carriers for over half a century. But never has an indigenous fighter ever trapped an arrester wire on a carrier’s deck.

The carriers themselves have been imported and refurbished at great cost to exchequer.

The old era of short take-off but arrested recovery (STOBAR) aircraft made way for vertical and short take-off landing (VSTOL) sea harriers acquired with INS Viraat (now decommissioned). A crucial skill called ‘tail-hook landing’ was lost to the navy for over three decades till we procured INS Vikramaditya (former Russian carrier Gorshkov) and the MiG-29K.

Slowly, that skill was revived and caressed back to life. Today, naval MiG-29Ks routinely storm off VKD’s ski-jump with precision and elan. It hasn’t been easy or cheap. People have slogged through the graveyard shift. It’s time to acknowledge their contribution.

Only a rare breed of test crew has straddled the two worlds of STOBAR and VSTOL in India. Mao, Shiv and my colleague Theo (PDAWFS today) are among those few. So are people who have countered the case with stoic arguments. The counterweights are firmly in place. This augurs well for a service lost in translation between Russian carriers, American fighters and Indian attitude.

Interestingly, Rear Admiral Surendra Ahuja (retd), who now heads Boeing Defence’s India business, rekindled navy’s interest in tail-hook landings on the USN T-45C Goshawks while in service. His course-mate Mao has achieved the same on a fly-by-wire, unstable, indigenous, delta-wing planform.

I think it’s a great moment for naval aviation, worthy of all-round celebration.

Spend a moment to reflect on what it takes to achieve such a feat in a country where even traffic lights and seatbelts are seen as nuisance. Long gone are visionaries like Dr Kota Harinarayanana, the father of Indian LCA programme. His plain-speaking, cheerful guffaws, single-minded focus and gentle nudge propelled the LCA Navy programme to where it finds itself today.

Today, cross-pollinated scientists like Kota with a world view rooted in ground realities have been replaced by generalists, parochial minds and ‘babus’ who see ghosts and scams at every turn. An ‘import lobby’ feeds negative vibes into the system at every conceivable occasion. The lure of ‘proven products’ lining the shelves can be intimidating and coercive. It takes a certain ‘damn you’ attitude and ‘project ownership’ to fight against such daunting odds.

Fortunately, Indian Navy, in its wisdom, decided to humour the Maos while keeping the naysayers at yardarm distance.

If LCA (Navy) is allowed to soar, the possibilities are infinite in a country where raw talent is in abundance.

Recall the old proverb: ‘success has many fathers. Defeat is an orphan’. Nowhere does it ring as true as in aviation. Here, you are only as good as your last landing; even if it means you are ‘arrested’ upon landing.

On 13 September 2019, a typically wet, rain-washed morning at INS Hansa, a small group of engineers, scientists and flight test crew cheered as Mao (Commodore Jaideep Maolankar), experimental test pilot (ETP) from Indian Navy’s light combat aircraft (LCA) project office neatly trapped an arrester wire at the shore-based test facility (SBTF) in Goa.

The test point, an intermediate but significant milestone for which a small team toiled for years, was over in less than 3 seconds from touchdown. The momentum of LCA (Navy) touching down at over 130 knots was ‘arrested’ and brought to null in copybook naval fashion.

It built momentum for a new phase that will see action shift to a carrier deck soon. The tail-hook on LCA (Navy) and the arrester gear system at SBTF are stepping stones for Navy-ADA’s ambitious deck-based fighter programme.

Naysayers can now take a skin-dip in INS Hansa’s Spring Beach, a few miles off SBTF. The test point was repeated successfully very next day by naval ETP Captain Shivnath Dahiya, again with flawless precision. He described his moment as “truly a magnificent day; a lifetime experience”.

For flight test crew and designers, these few minutes provide reams of data for deep, scientific analyses. Out of that will emerge a tentative decision if the bird is ready to mate with its ultimate partner – the aircraft carrier?

Team N-LCA after the fighter’s debut arrested landing. (Livefist/Twitter)
Team N-LCA after the fighter’s debut arrested landing. (Livefist/Twitter)
The aircraft carrier is a gigantic, floating city of man, metal, combustibles, explosives and attitude. Here, there is no room for complacency or showmanship.

Team LCA (Navy)’s achievement, something that may soon culminate into a carrier landing, was 14 long years in the making, says ‘Mao’ with a clenched fist. He measures his words with the fortitude of a man who lost flag rank only to create history. It’s serendipitous that he reads a lot of fighter pilot John Boyd.

From a historical perspective, it is truly a landmark achievement for India and our naval aviation. We have been operating carriers for over half a century. But never has an indigenous fighter ever trapped an arrester wire on a carrier’s deck.

The carriers themselves have been imported and refurbished at great cost to exchequer.

The old era of short take-off but arrested recovery (STOBAR) aircraft made way for vertical and short take-off landing (VSTOL) sea harriers acquired with INS Viraat (now decommissioned). A crucial skill called ‘tail-hook landing’ was lost to the navy for over three decades till we procured INS Vikramaditya (former Russian carrier Gorshkov) and the MiG-29K.

Slowly, that skill was revived and caressed back to life. Today, naval MiG-29Ks routinely storm off VKD’s ski-jump with precision and elan. It hasn’t been easy or cheap. People have slogged through the graveyard shift. It’s time to acknowledge their contribution.

Only a rare breed of test crew has straddled the two worlds of STOBAR and VSTOL in India. Mao, Shiv and my colleague Theo (PDAWFS today) are among those few. So are people who have countered the case with stoic arguments. The counterweights are firmly in place. This augurs well for a service lost in translation between Russian carriers, American fighters and Indian attitude.

Interestingly, Rear Admiral Surendra Ahuja (retd), who now heads Boeing Defence’s India business, rekindled navy’s interest in tail-hook landings on the USN T-45C Goshawks while in service. His course-mate Mao has achieved the same on a fly-by-wire, unstable, indigenous, delta-wing planform.

I think it’s a great moment for naval aviation, worthy of all-round celebration.

Spend a moment to reflect on what it takes to achieve such a feat in a country where even traffic lights and seatbelts are seen as nuisance. Long gone are visionaries like Dr Kota Harinarayanana, the father of Indian LCA programme. His plain-speaking, cheerful guffaws, single-minded focus and gentle nudge propelled the LCA Navy programme to where it finds itself today.

Today, cross-pollinated scientists like Kota with a world view rooted in ground realities have been replaced by generalists, parochial minds and ‘babus’ who see ghosts and scams at every turn. An ‘import lobby’ feeds negative vibes into the system at every conceivable occasion. The lure of ‘proven products’ lining the shelves can be intimidating and coercive. It takes a certain ‘damn you’ attitude and ‘project ownership’ to fight against such daunting odds.

Fortunately, Indian Navy, in its wisdom, decided to humour the Maos while keeping the naysayers at yardarm distance.

If few careers were sacrificed at the altar of a national programme, so be it. That’s seagull-poop compared to what the small team invested with a crucial mandate delivered on 13 September 2019. We need to keep ‘arresting’ the metal birds while building greater mettle and momentum for future.

In days to come, this scene will shift to an aircraft carrier. We need good luck and godspeed; talent is covered. Most of all, we need an ecosystem that identifies right talent, gives them the right exposure and, if required, takes them off the career-carousel to an equally inspirational technical journey of discovery.

HAL Tejas NP-1 takes-off from the shore based test facility at INS Hansa, Goa. (IndianNavy/Wikipedia)
HAL Tejas NP-1 takes-off from the shore based test facility at INS Hansa, Goa. (IndianNavy/Wikipedia)
When rubber meets metal, it’s just another day at sea for naval aviation. That’s how it’s been and how it always should be. These are but stepping stones for breaking free of the chain-lashings that pin us down in subjugation to imports. If LCA (Navy) is allowed to soar, the possibilities are infinite in a country where raw talent is in abundance.

Perhaps this is also an apt occasion to highlight the peculiarities of naval requirements. The small team from Aeronautical Development Agency/Hindustan Aeronautics Limited/Defence Research and Development Organisation (ADA/HAL/DRDO) associated with LCA project knows best why navy needs special attention.

We are siblings with special requirements. Don’t hold it against us. It’s the way we are. Views coloured with hubris, or rose-tinted by idle romanticism — both must make way for synergy and define a common baseline for quality.

India is poised at a crucial juncture where different platforms — indigenous and imports — are mixed and matched in the name of ‘jointmanship’ and austerity. In this Russian roulette or American rodeo, navy runs a real risk of being left all dressed up with nowhere to go.

Many aviation watchers like me are elated that the LCA (Navy) came to an abrupt stop at Dabolim on 13 September 2019. Please stay the course, Team LCA (Navy). The best place to feather this momentum is ‘out of sea’.

I am waiting for that test point. December, let’s do this?

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7366
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Prasad » 17 Sep 2019 10:23

Indranil wrote:Tejas Mk2 news is true. LCA NAvy Mk2 is a sad story. The challenge is not technical. I will leave it at that.

To add - Cmde Balaji said those in Feb '17. We're here 2 years later and Mk2 isn't ready.

Venu
BRFite
Posts: 157
Joined: 26 Oct 2009 17:23
Location: rimbola..rimbola

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Venu » 17 Sep 2019 10:33

Indranil wrote:A certain gent heading Boeing India now is the biggest impediment to LCA Navy Mk2. Any guesses which fighter he would want to see on Indian ships?!!!


Retd. Rear Adm S.Ahuja? Obviously must be pushing for the Super Hornet.

If true, sad that aviators who once donned the naval coat of arms are now acting against the interests of the same organization they once were part of. I can understand the work compulsions to promote their product and all, but causing impediments in the path of indigenous development is bad.

Vivek K
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2138
Joined: 15 Mar 2002 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 17 Sep 2019 10:34

Prasad wrote:
Indranil wrote:Tejas Mk2 news is true. LCA NAvy Mk2 is a sad story. The challenge is not technical. I will leave it at that.

To add - Cmde Balaji said those in Feb '17. We're here 2 years later and Mk2 isn't ready.

Wow! The air chief makes a public statement backing off from the NLCA and calling for 57 imported fighters and we expect that HAL will give NLCA top priority!! Excellent!

I wouldn’t want you to run finances for my company Sir!

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7726
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 17 Sep 2019 11:34

Prasad wrote:
Indranil wrote:Tejas Mk2 news is true. LCA NAvy Mk2 is a sad story. The challenge is not technical. I will leave it at that.

To add - Cmde Balaji said those in Feb '17. We're here 2 years later and Mk2 isn't ready.

I did not get you.

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7366
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Prasad » 17 Sep 2019 13:29

Indranil wrote:
Prasad wrote:To add - Cmde Balaji said those in Feb '17. We're here 2 years later and Mk2 isn't ready.

I did not get you.

He said they were going to start metal cutting soon at AI '17 presscon. For the Mk2. Along with the design features such as moving landing gear to wing roots etc. Just that IN's sudden support withdrawal and other things resulted in no Mk2 yet.

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4327
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 17 Sep 2019 14:34

Kartik wrote:Indranil, could you please try and confirm whether the following still holds good or not? This article dates back to August 2018

New wings for the albatross- Vayu Aerospace

According to Commodore Balaji, design work on the LCA Mk.2 was moving apace with some major design changes envisaged to the intakes and fuselage so as to accommodate the GE F414 engine, a batch of which have recently been delivered to ADA. The LCA Mk.2’s wings will be moved out board by about 350mm, increasing the space between fuselage and wings, thus optimising load transfer and allowing for an increase of fuel (700 kg) in the central fuselage.

Detailed design should be complete by 2019 and requisite raw material had already been ordered by ADA which aims to carry out the LCA Mk.2’s first flight in 2020-21. The full scale mockup of the LCA Navy Mk.2 should be ready by early 2018.
Making a direct reference to Saab, the intrepid designers at ADA believe that they are “at the same stage’ in terms of time and effort as are their Swedish counterparts with their Gripen M.




Re the red text, I think its a misinterpretation of what cmd Balaji said. IIRC what he said was SAAB is at same level as what ADA was in 2001 as far as Naval Fighter design is concerned.

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4327
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 17 Sep 2019 14:37

Lets not forget that something forced ADA to go back to drawing board to update NLCA MK2 design with extended wing and horizontal tail. So its not too surprising that the status of NLCA Mk2 is still more or less the same. NLCA Mk2 seems like an orphaned child.

ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2952
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 17 Sep 2019 17:45

^^but saab guys dont have ot go through the lat saabs in MoD sir for chillar counting..

LakshmanPST
BRFite
Posts: 111
Joined: 05 Apr 2019 18:23

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby LakshmanPST » 17 Sep 2019 18:03

Navy to induct submarine Khanderi, commission carrier dry dock on Sept. 28
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 439117.ece

Asked about the naval Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which made its first short arrested landing in Goa last week, he (Vice Adm Kumar) said the Navy was fully in support of the LCA project and always made payments on time.

“LCA Mk-1 was never meant to be inducted. It was a technology demonstrator. The arrested landing is a great achievement and will lead to the twin-engine Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), which the Navy will induct,” he added.


No mention of NLCA Mk2...?

vivek_ahuja
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2202
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 16:58

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby vivek_ahuja » 17 Sep 2019 18:13

LakshmanPST wrote:https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/navy-to-induct-submarine-khanderi-commission-carrier-dry-dock-on-sept-28/article29439117.ece

Asked about the naval Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which made its first short arrested landing in Goa last week, he (Vice Adm Kumar) said the Navy was fully in support of the LCA project and always made payments on time.


:rotfl:

Love how he said the bold part above. Shots fired.

sivab
BRFite
Posts: 932
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 07:56

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby sivab » 17 Sep 2019 20:00

Prasad wrote:
Indranil wrote:I did not get you.

He said they were going to start metal cutting soon at AI '17 presscon. For the Mk2. Along with the design features such as moving landing gear to wing roots etc. Just that IN's sudden support withdrawal and other things resulted in no Mk2 yet.


Incorrect. Following is the original plan per Cmdr. Balaji from Feb. 2017.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02 ... -back.html

We’re aiming for a first flight of the LCA Navy Mk.2 in late 2020 or early 2021. The detailed design will be complete by 2019. To save time, we’ve already ordered raw materials required,’ Balaji says.


And this from Feb this year from Dr. Deodhare, basically saying it is proceeding according to plan, unless something changed after that.

http://www.aeromag.in/Magazines/7626728690.pdf

Navy Mark-2 design has been completed and the aircraft is being realised and it should be ready in about 18 months.(July 2020)
We plan to complete Shore Based Carrier Compatibility testing on LCA Navy Mk1 this year and progress to realisation of LCA Navy Mk2 for operational deployment on the carrier.

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7366
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Prasad » 17 Sep 2019 20:25

Sir,
I was sitting 10 feet away. Anyway.

sivab
BRFite
Posts: 932
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 07:56

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby sivab » 17 Sep 2019 21:51

Prasad wrote:Sir,
I was sitting 10 feet away. Anyway.


Sir, are you saying Dr. Deodhare was lying? Not trying to put you in a spot, just trying to understand without any sugar coating. Is your info more credible than Dr. Deodhare?

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53438
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 17 Sep 2019 22:45

I think we need to stop criticizing ADA without understanding the factors not in their control.
The big goal was NLCA Mk1 arrested landing on shore demonstrated consistently.
Already 2 such landings have been shown.
Navy has said they are supporting the LCA program and making payments regularly.

Rest is not germane.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 53438
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 17 Sep 2019 22:46

Prasad, It helps if you say what on your mind and not make cryptic remarks.
Whats the real story?
We wasted 4-5 posts trying to get to what you mean.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4550
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 18 Sep 2019 00:57

Manish_Sharma wrote:https://swarajyamag.com/defence/indian-navys-light-combat-aircraft-love-at-first-trap

Indian Navy’s Light Combat Aircraft: Love At First Trap!
by K P Sanjeev Kumar

Sep 16, 2019, 6:32 pm

Recall the old proverb: ‘success has many fathers. Defeat is an orphan’. Nowhere does it ring as true as in aviation. Here, you are only as good as your last landing; even if it means you are ‘arrested’ upon landing.

On 13 September 2019, a typically wet, rain-washed morning at INS Hansa, a small group of engineers, scientists and flight test crew cheered as Mao (Commodore Jaideep Maolankar), experimental test pilot (ETP) from Indian Navy’s light combat aircraft (LCA) project office neatly trapped an arrester wire at the shore-based test facility (SBTF) in Goa.

....

Only a rare breed of test crew has straddled the two worlds of STOBAR and VSTOL in India. Mao, Shiv and my colleague Theo (PDAWFS today) are among those few. So are people who have countered the case with stoic arguments. The counterweights are firmly in place. This augurs well for a service lost in translation between Russian carriers, American fighters and Indian attitude.

Interestingly, Rear Admiral Surendra Ahuja (retd), who now heads Boeing Defence’s India business, rekindled navy’s interest in tail-hook landings on the USN T-45C Goshawks while in service. His course-mate Mao has achieved the same on a fly-by-wire, unstable, indigenous, delta-wing planform.

...

Today, cross-pollinated scientists like Kota with a world view rooted in ground realities have been replaced by generalists, parochial minds and ‘babus’ who see ghosts and scams at every turn. An ‘import lobby’ feeds negative vibes into the system at every conceivable occasion. The lure of ‘proven products’ lining the shelves can be intimidating and coercive. It takes a certain ‘damn you’ attitude and ‘project ownership’ to fight against such daunting odds.

Fortunately, Indian Navy, in its wisdom, decided to humour the Maos while keeping the naysayers at yardarm distance.

If LCA (Navy) is allowed to soar, the possibilities are infinite in a country where raw talent is in abundance.

Recall the old proverb: ‘success has many fathers. Defeat is an orphan’. Nowhere does it ring as true as in aviation. Here, you are only as good as your last landing; even if it means you are ‘arrested’ upon landing.

If few careers were sacrificed at the altar of a national programme, so be it. That’s seagull-poop compared to what the small team invested with a crucial mandate delivered on 13 September 2019. We need to keep ‘arresting’ the metal birds while building greater mettle and momentum for future.

...

Many aviation watchers like me are elated that the LCA (Navy) came to an abrupt stop at Dabolim on 13 September 2019. Please stay the course, Team LCA (Navy). The best place to feather this momentum is ‘out of sea’.

I am waiting for that test point. December, let’s do this?


As Captain Sanjeev Kumar (retd.) puts it, there is an import lobby that surreptiously puts out negative vibes time and again. There are people like Mao Sir, who have sacrificed career growth to achieve a national goal, while his peer has gone on to become Rear Admiral and then Boeing India head. Clearly one can tell the direction in which that person wanted the IN to go, pushing a proven product while trying to relegate the LCA Navy to becoming a test bed program and nothing more.

I sincerely hope that the Indian Navy continues to keep the dreams of men like Mao sir and Shivnath Dahiya and the few other nameless individuals that have slogged on this program, alive. After having achieved this, it would be a terrible shame if it doesn't translate into an indigenous naval fighter, the LCA Navy Mk2.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4550
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 18 Sep 2019 01:01

Venu wrote:
Indranil wrote:A certain gent heading Boeing India now is the biggest impediment to LCA Navy Mk2. Any guesses which fighter he would want to see on Indian ships?!!!


Retd. Rear Adm S.Ahuja? Obviously must be pushing for the Super Hornet.

If true, sad that aviators who once donned the naval coat of arms are now acting against the interests of the same organization they once were part of. I can understand the work compulsions to promote their product and all, but causing impediments in the path of indigenous development is bad.


Rear Adm Surendra Ahuja actively worked to scuttle the Naval LCA program, that is something we have heard earlier too. But working to scuttle the LCA Navy Mk2 program as well in order to get the Super Hornet into service..well what else was expected when he went on to become Boeing Defence India head?

His influence should be hard to cut out and throw away. With a long and illustrious career in the IN, he will know a LOT of IN decision makers very closely. I just hope they make the right decision in the nation's interest.

Prem Kumar
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2288
Joined: 31 Mar 2009 00:10

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Prem Kumar » 18 Sep 2019 09:51

Wondering how the U.S, Russia or China would deal with someone like Retd. Rear Adm S.Ahuja, his service record notwithstanding

ashishvikas
BRFite
Posts: 434
Joined: 17 Oct 2016 14:18

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby ashishvikas » 19 Sep 2019 16:12


Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8109
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Pratyush » 19 Sep 2019 16:42

Prem Kumar wrote:Wondering how the U.S, Russia or China would deal with someone like Retd. Rear Adm S.Ahuja, his service record notwithstanding



Why does he have to be dealt with?

Is the LCA ready to go into naval service?

sankum
BRFite
Posts: 679
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby sankum » 19 Sep 2019 16:43

Indranil, waiting for your article.

andy B
BRFite
Posts: 1597
Joined: 05 Jun 2008 11:03
Location: Gora Paki

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby andy B » 19 Sep 2019 16:52

ashishvikas wrote:Beautiful picture of Naval Mk2

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonMoD/sta ... 19232?s=19

Interesting....there is a Netra in the background without the radar installed.

abhik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2508
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby abhik » 19 Sep 2019 16:57

^^^
The Mk-2 model has a "tail" - haven't noticed that before - any idea what it is for?

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4327
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 19 Sep 2019 17:43

andy B wrote:
ashishvikas wrote:Beautiful picture of Naval Mk2

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonMoD/sta ... 19232?s=19

Interesting....there is a Netra in the background without the radar installed.

Yeah. Saw that baby flying yesterday. Must be the third one in progress.

Prasad
BRF Oldie
Posts: 7366
Joined: 16 Nov 2007 00:53
Location: Chennai

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Prasad » 19 Sep 2019 20:18

ashishvikas wrote:Beautiful picture of Naval Mk2

https://twitter.com/SpokespersonMoD/sta ... 19232?s=19

Beaut. Btw does this mean no wingtip station like the IAF version?

Vips
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2174
Joined: 14 Apr 2017 18:23

Re: Naval Tejas Mk1/Mk2: News & Discussion - 23 February 2019

Postby Vips » 19 Sep 2019 23:05



Security Scan - LCA Tejas: Naval Variant


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 54 guests