Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

[chetak]

I am disappoint. Where are the standard Mk1 flowerpots?

The IAF did not oblige.

[nits]

Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme, which began in the 1980s to replace India's ageing MiG-21 fighters. In 2003, the LCA was officially named "Tejas". -- ANI

This line should be just banned

[Rishi_Tri]

Life has come full circle - from Kadi Ninda to Ninja Singh.. Waiting for videos!!

[fanne]

Very good news for LCA -Air Marshal RKS Bhadauria, currently Vice Chief Of Air Staff, will be the next Chief Of Air Staff, on 30 September 2019

[SaiK]

https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1174559196685066241?s=19
Must watch

[fanne]

All stars are lined up - PM, RM, and the air chief for LCA. Even then it does not happen or is delayed, you know how deep the rot is. What forces are aligned against it. I would hope there is some house cleaning, whoever is deliberately stopping it

[JayS]

Good news for Desi programs perhaps. AM Bhaduaria has very pragmatic views towards indigenous capability development.

Good to see at least two of the five contenders for ACM posts associated with LCA program. AM Bhaduaria and AM Nambiar. Much has changed from the days of AM P Rajkumar perhaps..??

[Karan M]

Fingers crossed. Lets see Astra induction + the Tejas line flowing well, and even those Mk1s put into ops (order the darn SPJs already).

[Rakesh]

Very happy at the appointment of Air Marshal RKS Bhaduria. May he continue to take the IAF to new heights!

[Atmavik]

Fingers crossed. Lets see Astra induction + the Tejas line flowing well, and even those Mk1s put into ops (order the darn SPJs already).

right on cue for the ASTRA https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1174674548098101255

[Rakesh]

I am waiting for Modi to take a joyride in LCA. He should be seen throwing his full political weight behind LCA.

PM might not be able to fly the LCA, as there is a GOI rule about VVIPs not being able to fly on single engined aircraft / helos

Is the the Home Minister not a VVIP?

Not as high as the PM.

Back-And-Forth on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1174542560292818944 ---> PM Modi must at some point fly in a LCA- Tejas Trainer. That is the kind of clear and unequivocal support indigenization needs. Alongside, actual orders for 83 Tejas MK-1A which has been in the works forever.

https://twitter.com/ChampakbhumiaE/stat ... 4909759489 ---> There's a rule that PM, President aren't allowed to fly in Single Engine aircraft.

https://twitter.com/Leopard212/status/1 ... 0619758592 ---> That rule has long been dispensed with, during the Sea plane ride by Prime Minister. If RM who is under NSG protection can take a hop on TEJAS, so can the PM. All about personal choice. Though, SPG can have a fit over it.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1174548216584343552 ---> That rule needs to be MODI-fied , when it comes to indigenization, if you get what I am saying. If the PM can wade in a National Park's waters, he can also fly in what is possibly the safest combat trainer in the world.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1174549434962591744 ---> I mean, why should Bear Grylls be trusted any more than an ace pilot of the Indian Air Force flying a LCA-Tejas trainer with Modi in the back seat, hain-ji?

[ashishvikas]

What is going on with the Indian Tejas?
Hush Kit

https://hushkit.net/2019/09/19/what-is- ... ssion=true

[Vidur]

All stars are lined up - PM, RM, and the air chief for LCA. Even then it does not happen or is delayed, you know how deep the rot is. What forces are aligned against it. I would hope there is some house cleaning, whoever is deliberately stopping it

No one is deliberately stopping it.

Hard to let go of conspiracy theories for some it seems.

[Gyan]

How many 2 seater LCA do we have?

[Rakesh]

Please look up page 1 of this thread.

[fanne]

Vidur ji, with all due respect,
I am not casting conspiracy theories. Perhaps, worded differently, if LCA still gets delayed (when intent is to get 83 of it from all the top people), please see the operating word if then, something is wrong and it must be looked into.
1)It could very well be acquisition process of indigenous things. Somethings may have to be changed. How do you engage private sector in the beginning when the order is small? Maybe reimburse R&D and small batch production cost (so that more of them can participate).
2)Maybe they get tax credit of equal amount and govt spends no amount
3)After a certain threshold is achieved, large order is committed, backed by financial provisions. Since Defense tech become obsolete, a firm forward looking tech options included in the large order. That would also means back up plan (F-35s have option and space of side mounted radar, though 100s have been built without the radar. In future, if needed it can be added)

For 83 LCA MK-2, my recommendation (based on constraint gathered from newspaper, which by themselves can be grossly wrong)
1. HAL should be asked to pull out any R&D cost that may have been included in the cost (else why is it so high). The incurred cost is sunk cost paid by GOI. Even if something was paid from their budget, GOI should make other provisions to pay back (and make planes less costly for IAF)
2.The other reason could be that private players would be asking money over and above the cost of equipment for setting up production facility (which is btw duplication, as these facilities may already exist at HAL/BEL etc. But a necessary evil to get private sector involved). Govt should step in and cover the cost of setup - direct money, tax credits....any other option
3.Foreign OEM may jack up the price (Jags engines etc), must look for alternatives, including making in country or that being part of offset for Rafael etc.
4.Go with the current FOC standard LCA MK1A and freeze any other improvement till most are delivered (to stop scope creep). Given our force structure, they may face JF-17 or Mirage 3/5, for which they should be adequate. Trying to make them better than F-16s (LCA perhaps is better, but if it is not) and continuous improvement will kill the project.
5. Plan for birds more than 83 in case LCA MK-2 is delayed (or LCA MK1 if LCA MK1A is delayed).
6. We can easily need some 300 LCA of various make, some 15 years of production, announce that first so that private sector can plan accordingly.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/rajnathsingh/status ... 9866559488 ---> Flying on ‘Tejas’, an Indigenous Light Combat Aircraft from Bengaluru’s HAL Airport was an amazing and exhilarating experience. Tejas is a multi-role fighter with several critical capabilities. It is meant to strengthen India’s air defence capabilities.

[Rakesh]

https://twitter.com/rajnathsingh/status ... 1441926147 ---> The ‘G-Suite’ & ‘Tejas’: It was a memorable experience. Thank you Indian Air Force, HAL and DRDO for this proud moment. Special thanks to Air Vice Marshal N. Tiwari, who is also the Project Director, National Flight Test Centre, ADA (Aeronautical Development Agency) for the sortie.

[Indranil]

They flew with an LDP (and associated asymmetry) to near supersonic speed and an elderly person did not even realize. That is a very good plane. Simplicity has its virtues.

[Chinmay]

OBOGS on the Tejas

DEBEL researchers have developed the onboard oxygen generating system, OBOX, to help keep the pilot fit and alert for an equally long duration with continuous supply of oxygen while on high altitude, long-distance flights.

“As of now, a fighter pilot is airborne with a bottle of oxygen, a cylinder that comes with the aircraft, which has the capacity to last an hour at the most, before coming back to base to get it replenished. However, with the OBOX, oxygen will be available throughout, as long as the engine is running,” he said.

[chola]

How many 2 seater LCA do we have?

I believe three. Two Tejas trainers (PV-5/6? the DM flying from HAL grounds should be one of these) and the first NLCA (NP-1). IAF had 8 two-seaters ordered for the initial batch of 40 but unless I missed it all 16 SPs sent to Sqd 45 are single seaters?

[Bala Vignesh]

How many 2 seater LCA do we have?

I believe three. Two Tejas trainers (PV-5/6? the DM flying from HAL grounds should be one of these) and the first NLCA (NP-1). IAF had 8 two-seaters ordered for the initial batch of 40 but unless I missed it all 16 SPs sent to Sqd 45 are single seaters?

That's right, Chola ji!!
PV5 and PV6 are the IAF version, the NLCA NP-1 for the navy and all deliveries to IAF till date are single seaters.

Question to gurus, the SP twin seaters would also be equipped with IFR probes?

[nash]

Delhi Defence Review
@delhidefence
News from Bangalore: Smooth & steady & satisfactory as far as Uttam is concerned until now. Both flying radars are functioning as expected.
Testing is continuing with LCA LSP undergoing routine maintenance at the moment n will be back in the air very soon.

https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 6290830336

So, there are 2 prototype of Uttam, should have speed up the testing, hopefully we may hear some good news by end of this year.

[kit]

interesting quote below

" Last time we saw a screengrab of the FCR screen which although shouldn't have been revealed, yet it shows better results than the EL/M 2052 in terms of detection & tracking of a Tejas like target. "

[Gagan]

They flew with an LDP (and associated asymmetry) to near supersonic speed and an elderly person did not even realize. That is a very good plane. Simplicity has its virtues.

Very good point.
Need to see if they fly with LDP when they are flying VIPs so they can see live pics on their monitor.
Probably showing him how they hit stuff at Balakot. That thing must have some serious range and resolution and image stabilization

[Gagan]

A kind request to all members here,
I didn't make that rule about VVIP not being able to fly on single engined aircraft. I think it is an SPG rule.
I remember an incident when President RV was on a boat ride from ?Port Blair to some island in the Andamans, and he was terribly sea sick, AND requested evacuation to the shore. They only had a single engined Chetak on deck, and the dilli security folks threw the rule book at the NauSena folks.
I dunno if they flew in a seaking from somewhere, or weather the Sea King was even kitted for carrying a VIP - surely they can't make the president sit on the floor na? Or if RV, took some vomiting medicines and rode it out, is not known.

[SriKumar]

No kament...... For phull video, please to dekho this link (this was during chunaav: phir ek baar, Modi sarkaar).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om4pUjwVPx8

START from 16:30 onwards for the entire takeoff including a close shave flight over the bridge (still recall being pissed off how close the darn pilot took him over the bridge).
(At 9:15 Modi in seen in the craft).

[Cain Marko]

Far more important than politicians taking an occasional ride in the Tejas, I'd like to see an additional order of 2-3 sqds of the bird (Mk1) until the Mk1A comes out completely ready.

[jaysimha]

https://dhi.nic.in
contributions to tejas

[ashishvikas]

HAL readies new variant of Tejas ahead of maiden flight
Anantha Krishnan M September 21, 2019 05:20 PM IST

The first Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas fighter from the Final Operational Clearance (FOC) block, SP-21, is set for independent and integrated system checks at Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL)’s LCA-Tejas Division.

“In aeronautical parlance, the first fighter in the FOC category is in the equipping stage of the production life cycle. We are confident of its first flight in two months,”an official said.

“This would enable us to increase the production rate of LCA. Out of 16 FOC strike aircraft, four are planned to be delivered by this FY (March 2020) and remaining 12 fighters will be delivered within next FY (March 2021),” says the official.

https://english.manoramaonline.com/news ... ssion=true

[Karan M]

The actual link for the LESA is:
https://dhi.nic.in/writereaddata/Upload ... pdated.PDF

These are Linear Electrohydraulic Servo Actuators.

[jaysimha]

http://ddnews.gov.in/videos/national/fu ... ght-combat




Full Event: Defence Minister Rajnath Singh flies indigenously-built Light Combat Aircraft from DD for records

[Karan M]

From the writeup above:

Among the key features that have been added to improve the performance are: air-to-air refueling probe, Gsh-23 mm gun, pressure refueling with three drop tank configuration, integration of 725 and 450 liters of drop tank, improved wing navigation lamp, in-flight wind mill relight, tandem pylon and zoom climb to name a few.

1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoom_climb
2. Likely a redesigned tandem pylon? As it has existed for a while now:
https://www.facebook.com/tejas.lca/phot ... =1&theater

The decision to launch common parts between IOC and FOC fighters well in advance has now showing rich dividends. The LCA-Tejas Division has now cut down the lead time for production of aircraft from 12-18 months to eight months.

This is the kind of stuff making your own items (as versus having everything handed over) does.

“We have gained good experience during manufacturing of aircraft with IOC configuration, which is coming handy during the ongoing production of SP-21 onwards,” the official added.

HAL has incorporated many key improvements in the production line to reduce the cycle time and better quality product. They include: use of robotic drilling, reduction in PI (pre-installation checks) of LRUs (line replace units), maximizing the outsourcing for detail components, outsourcing of complete major assemblies like wing and fuselage, maintainability improvement through enhanced looming cut-outs and ICY (inter-changeability) of pipes and panels and use of copper mesh on wing assembly.

[Kakarat]

[srin]

Great news about the gun ! I was under the impression it wasn't in the FOC. And hadn't heard any news of the air testing of the gun.

[sivab]

Both Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) Chairman Dr G Satheesh Reddy and HAL Chairman and manging Director M Madhavan confirmed to Onmanorma that the 83 MK1A orders are in the final stages of completion.

They say all major issues have been sorted out barring those linked to ground equipment and other support systems.

HAL hopes that all pending issues will be sorted in the next two months and the contract will be inked during this FY itself.

From above link.

[fanne]

Sahi hai, Jai Hind!!

[Cain Marko]

Where is the bigger order for the mk1 from the IAF? this is seriously aggravating.

[Nikhil T]

Where is the bigger order for the mk1 from the IAF? this is seriously aggravating.

Even now DRDO Director is hoping that the contract would be signed within this FY - which ends in March - full 6 months away. The RFP for Mk1A was issued in Dec 2017. Even if we sign the contract in March 2020, it will be 28 months to seal a contract. Ridiculous!

Every single thing in our defence moves at glacial speed.

[Indranil]

In this case, it is unfair to blame MoD/MoF/IAF. HAL's initial quote for the Mk1A was unreasonable. This has been resolved only recently and procurement process is going apace.

If you think about it IAF is placing orders even before an Mk1A prototype has taken to the air, or is even close.