Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

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Aditya_V
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Sep 2020 16:01

Nice to hear, then MK1A deliveries can start from 2022-23, hope with seperate trainer line, this means 24 a year if MOD gives enough orders. I hope the order is more than 83, as now we have set up FOC production a few more of these should be ordered.

High time the MK2/MWF and TEDBF prototypes are also worked on and within 1 or 2 years the AMCA prototypes need to come out as it take atleast 8-9 years for various tests , such as internal weapons release etc.

TEDBF could be useful for the airforce also 2- F414 engines, it should be able to supercruise with AAM's

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 22 Sep 2020 21:17

Aditya_V wrote:So single seat Mk1A's from ? 2024-25? Problem is not just HAl, for the well oiled French are delivering 10 rafales in 20-21 for order in April-15.

The entire GOI and Indian industry has been lacking, we need to get our production infrastructure in place away from Dalali NGO-Commission gravy train.


When status of ongoing effort is presented why bring in Mk1A for which the contract is not signed!
Being jingo is fine but such thinking makes one eternally disappointed.
And no need for the useless ran in the end.
Rafales will be delivered ahead of schedule.

And once the contract is signed HAL will also deliver Mk1A on schedule.
Do you realize Mk1A contract needs to be singed for the drawings to be made?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby RKumar » 22 Sep 2020 22:43

Tejas SP-22 and SP-23 ready for first flight this week

I am happy to be proven wrong ... :D

wo fighters from the Tejas Final Operational Clearance (FOC) block—SP-22 and SP-23—are likely to take to the skies in the coming days, signalling the resumption of flight activities that were halted for a while. An official from Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) told Onmanorama that the flight trials of these two fighters will be completed by the end of this month.

The low- and high-speed taxi trials of both fighters have been completed. The LCA-Tejas Division of HAL is currently finishing the activities ahead of their first flights. SP-23 is manufactured by HAL’s Aircraft Division.

“The FOC variants getting ready for delivery/flight are loaded with updated software to meet the operational requirements of Indian Air Force (IAF). The production rate has been enhanced at LCA and Aircraft Divisions. Structural works are in advanced stages,” the official told Onmanorama.

HAL hopes that by the end of this production year, the fuselages of the remaining FOC fighters will be loaded on to their respective jigs.
....
Production rate

HAL is working towards delivering the FOC aircraft to IAF without having any pending concessions. The production rate is expected to be enhanced, once the vendors start delivering major assemblies.

...

SP-21, the first Tejas FOC fighter that flew in March this year, was produced by HAL in a record time of 12 months, post release of the documents.

The aircraft was subsequently delivered to the IAF in May and is currently undergoing software upgrade and post-delivery checks. It is expected to be with its Indian Air Force squadron by the end of this month.

HAL has put in reinforced efforts to meet the demands of IAF with the manufacturing of detailed parts of all FOC fighters almost completed.

Now, the focus is on the completion of structural build of aircraft, which are planned to be produced during this financial year. The first three aircraft are in advanced stage of delivery and another three (SP-24, SP-25, SP-26) are in various stages of equipping,” the official added.

Pandemic pause
....

“We are planning to maximise the deliveries despite the lockdown-induced slowdown in supply chain. The target is to produce eight aircraft by end of this FY and this could be enhanced if the supplies from our business partners improve,” the official added.

.....
Meanwhile, detailed part manufacturing work is currently under way for manufacturing of eight Tejas FOC trainer aircraft. The jigs are being calibrated for structural assembly and if HAL sticks to the current plan, the first trainer will fly out by end of next year.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2020 02:48

From above report, HAL has all piece parts for FOC tranche of Tejas planes. Its now assembly work remaining.
Is the second line finally coming throught yet?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vips » 23 Sep 2020 08:31

IIRC, the original HAL Tejas assembly line had a capacity of 5 aircrafts per year which got increased when HAL opened up another make shift assembly line (old Kiran hangar) with a capacity of 3 aircrafts a year ie total 8 aircrafts a year spread across two assembly lines.

The new HAL plant which is coming up will have a capacity of 8 aircrafts a year initially which will make it a total of 16 aircrafts after the new plant is commissioned.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2020 09:18

When is the new plant supposed to be ready? Should be quite soon. Its over 24 months since funding started.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Amit Patel » 23 Sep 2020 14:27

Posting as found on Social Media, "HAL Tejas Shed"

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/shruti-choudhari-blkashyap_hal-tejas-blkconstructions-ugcPost-6713747627080605696-vqhl

Mods: If link is in-appropriate, kindly delete the same.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vips » 23 Sep 2020 18:47

ramana wrote:When is the new plant supposed to be ready? Should be quite soon. Its over 24 months since funding started.


The plant was supposed to be operational in November this year with the first Trainer to roll out in November 2021. This was before the slowdown due to pandemic. Factor in delays at max of a couple of months.

Five major private sector players will supply parts for final assembly by HAL - Dynamatic Technologies Ltd, Bengaluru (Front fuselage), VEM Technologies, Hyderabad (Centre fuselage), Alpha Tocol, Bengaluru (Rear fuselage), L&T, Coimbatore (Wings), and Tail Fin and Rudder will be supplied by National Aerospace Laboratory and Tata Advanced Materials Ltd.
Last edited by Vips on 24 Sep 2020 00:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 23 Sep 2020 19:56

I believe the November date is being held. So they want to build trainers there, first?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vips » 24 Sep 2020 00:58

Yes that is the plan.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 24 Sep 2020 01:22

As if there is a pressing need for trainers?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 24 Sep 2020 01:41

Presently, neither of the two squadrons have any trainers and getting them will help. Also, those new trainers will be fully combat capable. If you remember, IAF prefers 2-seaters for PGM strike missions. All Mirage-2000 LGB strike missions during Kargil for example were done using 2 seaters. I'm not sure if it was the same case during Balakot but it is likely.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 24 Sep 2020 02:17

Oh! This is public now. It will be more than just trainers.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby sankum » 24 Sep 2020 02:53

Timeline for jammer pods on these 50 Tejas mk1?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 24 Sep 2020 03:16

Indranil wrote:Oh! This is public now. It will be more than just trainers.



Please explain.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Prem Kumar » 24 Sep 2020 11:18

nachiket wrote:Presently, neither of the two squadrons have any trainers and getting them will help. Also, those new trainers will be fully combat capable. If you remember, IAF prefers 2-seaters for PGM strike missions. All Mirage-2000 LGB strike missions during Kargil for example were done using 2 seaters. I'm not sure if it was the same case during Balakot but it is likely.


So, are trainers fully weapons capable & usable during a conflict?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 24 Sep 2020 11:29

Prem Kumar wrote:
nachiket wrote:Presently, neither of the two squadrons have any trainers and getting them will help. Also, those new trainers will be fully combat capable. If you remember, IAF prefers 2-seaters for PGM strike missions. All Mirage-2000 LGB strike missions during Kargil for example were done using 2 seaters. I'm not sure if it was the same case during Balakot but it is likely.


So, are trainers fully weapons capable & usable during a conflict?

Trainer versions of all modern aircraft are fully combat capable. Last one in IAF service to have a "trainer-only" version was the Mig-29UB (which had no radar). The Russians even fixed that in the Mig-29KUB. So our naval Mig-29 two-seaters are also fully combat capable. Tejas is the same. All of them will only compromise a bit on internal fuel to accommodate the second cockpit.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 24 Sep 2020 12:52

Most twin seaters are single pilot operated on non training missions.

Image

Having said that trainers being exposed to rough handling by UT pilots and the training mission itself being important over the lifecycle of an aircraft, they are not used on non-training missions unless the **** hits the roof.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 25 Sep 2020 07:35

Exactly. Hence my question on priorty of the mfg schedule. Maybe they want the old lines to work on FOC planes and the new lines for trainers as people are already used to the build plan.

Still would think atleast four of the assy jigs be dedicated to fulfill the FOC contract considering that iAF needs to upp the squadron numbers.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Philip » 25 Sep 2020 11:52

I must say that the NLCA reminds me of the A-4 Skyhawk,the smallest USN carrier bird used during the Vietnam war which they denied to us for the Vikrant.The Israelis used it fir suite a while.
Its small footprint would make it the ideal aircraft for my idea of converting our 4 X 30K t amphibs into light carriers,which both Japan and Soko intend. A flight deck with ski-jump as with the Juan Carlos design,roughly the same size as our new Vikrant,
would allow 24+ AC/ helos carried. These light CVs could be built within 5 years,and by 2030 we could have 3 in service. They would bf valuable additions to the two medium sized CVs,the VikA and Vikrant-2.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 26 Sep 2020 09:52

Anantha Krishnan @writetake
So folks, #Tejas SP-22 flew on Sept 24.

9:12 AM · Sep 26, 2020

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 26 Sep 2020 15:56

Great news. Will update page 1.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby KSingh » 27 Sep 2020 05:29

nachiket wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:
So, are trainers fully weapons capable & usable during a conflict?

Trainer versions of all modern aircraft are fully combat capable. Last one in IAF service to have a "trainer-only" version was the Mig-29UB (which had no radar). The Russians even fixed that in the Mig-29KUB. So our naval Mig-29 two-seaters are also fully combat capable. Tejas is the same. All of them will only compromise a bit on internal fuel to accommodate the second cockpit.

Trainer is the wrong word, do you see these terms for the FA-18F?

Twin seat is the correct word. This isn’t the MIG-29UB situation where the 2 seater can’t be used for operational roles.


The IAF specifically procured more 2 seat versions of the Rafale than had originally been spec’d in the MMRCA RFP becuase of their focus on strike for this fleet


LCA 2 seaters will be fully FOC machines just with slightly less range

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 28 Sep 2020 12:19

From Grp Cpt HVT's Twitter

The reason behind the patchwork of tape on the Tejas' wings. To conduct lightning and protect the aircraft from lightning strikes, given it's carbon fiber composite structure. Also to discharge the static electricity built up during flight on landing.

Twitter link

Conducting Ribcage under the grey paint.


On a fully composite wing, a sub-surface conducting layer accumulates in-flight static charge & eventually discharges it through the wheels onto the ground, once the aircraft lands. Experimental patches on initial aircraft lead to a robust final design.


Image

Naval LCA
Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby V_Raman » 28 Sep 2020 12:50

noob pooch - why cant they fit GE 414 to MK1 - is it due to inlet diameter? all other size parameters seem to be the same.

https://www.geaviation.com/sites/defaul ... Family.pdf
https://www.geaviation.com/sites/defaul ... Family.pdf

31 for 414 vs 28 for 404

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Sep 2020 13:14

Already been discussed many times, the answer is no, Inlet Diameter, Airflow, weight and Fuel consumption are different, redesign required, if you are doing these changes, IAF felt why not increase fuel and payload hence MWF/LCA Mk-2
Last edited by Aditya_V on 28 Sep 2020 13:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby V_Raman » 28 Sep 2020 13:19

interesting thought process. minor update vs major release - typical mistake of software design. but IAF knows better.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 28 Sep 2020 16:32

V_Raman wrote:interesting thought process. minor update vs major release - typical mistake of software design. but IAF knows better.

It isnt a minor update. Please check the airflow requirement in the very same links you posted. It will require redesign. Inlets are like the respiratory system of a human being.

If aircraft design was the same as software design, then every coder on the bench would be churning out their own AMCA and NGAD. Obviously the fields are different.

Secondly improving raw horsepower doesnt bring performance improvements. One needs to improve lift and reduce reduce transonic drag as well.

The Mk2 started out as a simple re-engining but other improvements became necessary over time since just re-engining wasnt yielding desired results.

The 2014 version is your idea

Image

V_Raman wrote:but IAF knows better.


ADA's knows better. They are the design authority. The IAF only gives performance specifications - ITR, STR, etc. Which airframe and which engine to help achieve it (GE 404, 414, Eurojet EJ200) is completely ADA's prerogative. Somehow the IAF has become everyone's favorite whipping boy for their pet fantasy biases.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vips » 01 Oct 2020 03:39

According to a Defence youtube report - Manufacturing and roll out of the first front fuselage of Tejas (First Article ICY Jig) done by Dynamatic Technologies. This Jig has been accepted and certified by HAL.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby dkhare » 01 Oct 2020 04:20

Vips wrote:According to a Defence youtube report - Manufacturing and roll out of the first front fuselage of Tejas (First Article ICY Jig) done by Dynamatic Technologies. This Jig has been accepted and certified by HAL.

Here is the post from the official account of Dynamatic Technologies (does not have the blue checkmark on it)

@DynamaticTech
https://twitter.com/DynamaticTech/status/1311299832280088577

Here is the video:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1311299832280088577

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 01 Oct 2020 06:36

basant wrote:Anantha Krishnan @writetake
So folks, #Tejas SP-22 flew on Sept 24.

9:12 AM · Sep 26, 2020

When Anantha says SP-22, is it actually SP-18? The numberings were changed. Just want to confirm.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby LakshmanPST » 01 Oct 2020 07:15

Rakesh wrote:

When Anantha says SP-22, is it actually SP-18? The numberings were changed. Just want to confirm.


I guess it is SP18 only...
I remember reading somewhere that HAL has not changed their internal numbering...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 01 Oct 2020 08:13

IIRC, SP-22 is HAL numbering and *18 is IAF tail number. Also IAF recently requested not to tracked tail numbers. So, IMHO, we should be documenting SP-22 itself to make it consistent with HAL numbering that isn't operationally sensitive.

It is also interesting that, probably for the first time, no information on first flight (and its pilot) is available even now. But for the credibility of AK/@wiretake, there would have been no reason to believe it to be true!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 01 Oct 2020 09:45

Video that shows the forward fuselage jig at Dynamatic Technologies' facility in Bangalore. It has delivered the first Tejas forward fuselage module- first article ICY jig clearance.

Twitter link

@DynamaticTech
gets First Article-ICY Jig clearance from
@HALHQBLR
for #Tejas #LCA Front Fuselage Assembly. This is a milestone in our Nation’s Aerospace journey and #MakeInIndia
@DefProdnIndia

@IAF_MCC
#AtmaNirbharBharat


Video link

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby shaun » 05 Oct 2020 07:51

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ashbhee » 05 Oct 2020 11:47

Any good news in MK 1A contract signing front? This is agonizing delay.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby LakshmanPST » 05 Oct 2020 14:48

ashbhee wrote:Any good news in MK 1A contract signing front? This is agonizing delay.


Apparently, the chief himself said today that contract will be signed by December...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby sankum » 05 Oct 2020 16:13

Harsh Vardhan Thakur
@hvtiaf
·
Sep 28
Tejas LIFT (earlier SPORT) is being pursued as a full project.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 05 Oct 2020 18:12

sankum wrote:Harsh Vardhan Thakur
@hvtiaf
·
Sep 28
Tejas LIFT (earlier SPORT) is being pursued as a full project.

Why!? :?:
I don't think we are getting our priorities right with limited resources and limited time to standing up to two adversaries.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby sankum » 05 Oct 2020 19:03

216 nos (12sq)Tejas mk2 is planned and 6 sq AMCA is planned. They will require 3 lift per sq around 60 Tejas LIFT.
Tejas LIFT @16/year and MWF @24/year post 2027 i.e total @40/year can be expected.
Add to this @8/year AMCA upto 2035 2sq post 2030.
Indian economy will be large .Can afford it


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