Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 26 Dec 2019 07:29

Nihat, Its above MoD to keep the line busy.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby jaysimha » 30 Dec 2019 16:03

https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=196160

Additional Su-30 MKI Aircraft: IAF had contracted for 272 Su-30 MKI aircraft under various contracts. Presently deliveries are continuing under block IV contract and are likely to conclude by March 2020.

Hope/assume LCA production will zooom after April 2020...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby chola » 30 Dec 2019 18:01

The key is finalizing the first 83 Mk1A contract. The boxwallah bargaining being done drives me crazy. I hope the reported 10000 crores reduction in price (1/5th savings!) a week ago made the IAF happy and they can approve.

The truth is MII gear should be subsidized by the GOI to foster the MIC. This kind of street bargaining pits armed forces against PSUs when money for both ultimately comes from the same place.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nam » 30 Dec 2019 19:18

It is a game of blinkers going on. The MK1A was a compromise by IAF in return of SE/TE MRCA 2.0.

MoD then put IAF on a wild goose chase by not even accepting AON. IAF in return delayed the MK1A using the cost excuse. It is not like IAF is paying for it.

I will not be surprised, if the AON for MRCA 2.0 is done(or not), once the MK1A is signed. MoD is playing hardball with IAF's obsession to get more Rafales.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 30 Dec 2019 19:57

nam wrote:It is a game of blinkers going on. The MK1A was a compromise by IAF in return of SE/TE MRCA 2.0.

MoD then put IAF on a wild goose chase by not even accepting AON. IAF in return delayed the MK1A using the cost excuse. It is not like IAF is paying for it.

I will not be surprised, if the AON for MRCA 2.0 is done(or not), once the MK1A is signed. MoD is playing hardball with IAF's obsession to get more Rafales.

In the end IAF and India lose - on every front!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Dec 2019 23:52

jaysimha wrote:https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=196160

Additional Su-30 MKI Aircraft: IAF had contracted for 272 Su-30 MKI aircraft under various contracts. Presently deliveries are continuing under block IV contract and are likely to conclude by March 2020.

Hope/assume LCA production will zooom after April 2020...

I think the IAF has ordered 12 more Su30MKis to keep the production going till Mar 2021

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby LakshmanPST » 31 Dec 2019 00:03

Aditya_V wrote:I think the IAF has ordered 12 more Su30MKis to keep the production going till Mar 2021


I don't think any new order has been placed yet...
They are still in negotiations...

Also, there is no new news about buying 21 MIG 29s from Russia... Last we heard, talks were going on... Don't know current status...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cybaru » 31 Dec 2019 00:33

We should order another 21 more MKI instead of 21 more mig29 in addition to the 12 replacements. They are far more capable and are truly multirole.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby srai » 31 Dec 2019 00:47

chola wrote:The key is finalizing the first 83 Mk1A contract. The boxwallah bargaining being done drives me crazy. I hope the reported 10000 crores reduction in price (1/5th savings!) a week ago made the IAF happy and they can approve.

The truth is MII gear should be subsidized by the GOI to foster the MIC. This kind of street bargaining pits armed forces against PSUs when money for both ultimately comes from the same place.

True.

They bargained harder (and twisted arms) on an indigenous product than on an import :roll:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cybaru » 31 Dec 2019 00:59

It's ok! Let em bargain, I wish they had increased the MK1 order to 60 though.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby fanne » 31 Dec 2019 19:59

jaysimha wrote:https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=196160

Additional Su-30 MKI Aircraft: IAF had contracted for 272 Su-30 MKI aircraft under various contracts. Presently deliveries are continuing under block IV contract and are likely to conclude by March 2020.

Hope/assume LCA production will zooom after April 2020...

simha ji with due respect, LCA line is in Bangalore and mki in Nashik. Not only that, I am sure the jiggs and tools are vastly different. It would do nothing to increase number of LCA (which per grapevine and speculation - IAF is holding the order unless it gets it favorite aircraft - among all conspiracy theories, this ticks all the boxes.....or simply it is matter of chalta hai which I doubt).

What would increase the LCA number (we are short by 200 aircrafts as of today) is immediate order of MK1A, second line and perhaps till that is sorted out 1-2 years worth more order of FOC config LCA (from news that I hear, I think MK1A and FOC if ordered today should take the same time to come out, unless mk1a has not been fully frozen).

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ashishvikas » 01 Jan 2020 10:39

Now which fighter is this ? Harsh Vardhan Thakur is twitting

Image

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12121 ... 70241?s=09

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Pratyush » 01 Jan 2020 10:49

Appears to be a concept sketch of 2 engined jet with CFT.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby srin » 01 Jan 2020 11:40

Isn't it Rafale ? ORCA = Omni role combat aircraft

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby sajaym » 01 Jan 2020 11:45

There's already LCA mk1, mk1A, MWF, TEDBF and AMCA. So this must be BWF = Beech Wala Fighter. This was to be expected... once the IAF realized that the navy was getting a twin engined interim fighter before the AMCA, they too would feel the 'itch' for a twin engined bird.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Bharadwaj » 01 Jan 2020 12:03

Tempted to say fanboy art but why would Mr Thakur be tweeting it? Perhaps this is could be a HAL driven project much like the 1a.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby jaysimha » 01 Jan 2020 12:06

fanne wrote:
jaysimha wrote:https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=196160

Additional Su-30 MKI Aircraft: IAF had contracted for 272 Su-30 MKI aircraft under various contracts. Presently deliveries are continuing under block IV contract and are likely to conclude by March 2020.

Hope/assume LCA production will zooom after April 2020...

simha ji with due respect, LCA line is in Bangalore and mki in Nashik. Not only that, I am sure the jiggs and tools are vastly different. It would do nothing to increase number of LCA (which per grapevine and speculation - IAF is holding the order unless it gets it favorite aircraft - among all conspiracy theories, this ticks all the boxes.....or simply it is matter of chalta hai which I doubt).

What would increase the LCA number (we are short by 200 aircrafts as of today) is immediate order of MK1A, second line and perhaps till that is sorted out 1-2 years worth more order of FOC config LCA (from news that I hear, I think MK1A and FOC if ordered today should take the same time to come out, unless mk1a has not been fully frozen).


Agreed Sir,,

But nowadays I see lot of tenders related to Augmentation of Production facility in LCA division in Bangalore.

Only sample I am posting. If you go through in detail you will find lot of new/ addendum / corrections itd.. itd.. as late as dec 2019

https://hal-india.co.in/TENDERS/M__63
https://hal-india.co.in/Tender_Details.aspx?Mkey=63&lKey=&Ckey=MjQ3Nzc=&Divkey=OA==
https://hal-india.co.in/Common/Uploads/TenderDoc/24777_TenderPDF1_TN42.pdf

location may be different,,but Lets not forget that manpower is same. So I assumed some top people / manpower/ logistics' resources will become free and will fully focus on LCA Tejas.

Regarding IAF not issuing their love letter, I think personally, the matter is beyond that.

I feel it is in some babu's file. Meanwhile work can/must be going on..........


----------HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ONE AND ALL--------

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 01 Jan 2020 14:51

Bharadwaj wrote:Tempted to say fanboy art but why would Mr Thakur be tweeting it? Perhaps this is could be a HAL driven project much like the 1a.


has to be fanboy art. the rendering is not what one would expect of HAL or ADA.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby chola » 01 Jan 2020 15:13

Kartik wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:Tempted to say fanboy art but why would Mr Thakur be tweeting it? Perhaps this is could be a HAL driven project much like the 1a.


has to be fanboy art. the rendering is not what one would expect of HAL or ADA.


Fanboy art. The artist seems to be a bit confused and mixed the MWF with the TEDBF. It looks like a twin/engine but the nozzles are way too small.

That said, the quality of the rendering is not too bad. We need a lot more of them. We suffer a major art gap against the likes of the J-10, J-20 and JF-17 that spread their popularity across forums and into the gaming and non-mil following public.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Karan M » 01 Jan 2020 15:38

Its not fanboy art but a concept.

HVT IMHO won't post fanboy art.

Ignore the niggles about the quality of the render etc. Its clearly a HAL-ADA concept (likely an independent one like the Tejas SPORT) meant for the IAF.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nam » 01 Jan 2020 15:43

TEDBF, either you make MWF twin engined or use AMCA as the base.

The rendering is what twin engined MWF would look for TEDBF. And probably the least risk option.

Looks like my prediction that IAF will inducting more TEDBF, than IN is slowly coming through..

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 02 Jan 2020 12:22

I think this is HAL's unsolicited idea for TEDBF. I will find out.

Just like Mk1A was HAL's idea much to ADA's chagrin. The still dont see eye to eye on Mk1A.

IMHO, HAL should focus on IJT and HJT going. How will it differentiate its product in a space that spans from Hawk class to Yak 130 class to LCA trainer class? Personally, I hope it is f5 tiger IIe class. That way we have a light fighter for smaller AFs.

This Defexpo will be interesting.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby abhik » 02 Jan 2020 13:23

Have we considered a M-88 powered TED-BF - that way the current Mk-2 thrust goes up by 50% instead of 100% (with GE F414)? Which I'm assuming will be easier to design.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby abhik » 02 Jan 2020 13:39

sajaym wrote:There's already LCA mk1, mk1A, MWF, TEDBF and AMCA. So this must be BWF = Beech Wala Fighter. This was to be expected... once the IAF realized that the navy was getting a twin engined interim fighter before the AMCA, they too would feel the 'itch' for a twin engined bird.

Yup, it's been a decade since Mk-2 was approved, and we still have nothing to show for it. I predict in the next year the various stakeholders will duke it out and single engine IAF Mk-2 will also get torpedoed.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 02 Jan 2020 14:18

I believe the single engine MWF is too far along to be modified, with actual metal cutting on the prototype to begin in February 2020. It will go on as the next gen Mirage-2000 equivalent for the IAF, and will present an affordable medium weight single engine fighter for the next 40 years. That concept is surely still extremely attractive to the IAF.

a twin engine DBF based Air Force variant may also interest the IAF to the degree that it may well see some sort of commitment on work on a derivative to start in parallel with the Navy's TEDBF. It will be an interesting year without a doubt. The IAF and the IN have the opportunity to define and design for themselves, an entirely indigenous Rafale equivalent that should be a LOT more affordable. All the ingredients for it are there, even though the engine may be a foreign one (F-414) made in India.

This is the only way to a 42 squadron number- indigenous programs running at full speed.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ashishvikas » 03 Jan 2020 19:24

Akanantha krishnan would provide a report today with some update.


And, to all #Tejas fans who were chasing me for an update, lining up a report tomorrow that will fly out of the hangars of @Onmanorama. Yup #TejasDay special it is.
@akananth @IAF_MCC https://t.co/WtohybCw6C

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 07 Jan 2020 03:51

its now 6 Jan. Any update?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Khalsa » 07 Jan 2020 16:11

nope... been watching his T&F like a hawk.
Nothing

and its the 7th of Jan and counting

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ashishvikas » 07 Jan 2020 17:15

HAL on a war-footing to roll out 4 new Tejas variants in 3 months

- by Anantha Krishnan M

https://english.manoramaonline.com/news ... llout.html

- SP21 to SP24 are being targeted by March-20
- SP21 first flight this month (delayed due to software upgrade)
- 16 FOC to be ready for March-21
- Gp Capt Manish Tolani, who is currently part of the No 45 Squadron Flying Daggers, would be the CO of second squadron.
- HAL might next take up the work of 18 Tejas Trainers from next year to avoid a possible production holiday.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nash » 07 Jan 2020 17:33

- HAL might next take up the work of 18 Tejas Trainers from next year to avoid a possible production holiday.


8 Tejas trainers is part of total order of 40 mk1, what about rest of 10? Do we have any order placed for these?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby sankum » 07 Jan 2020 17:48

10 Tejas Trainers of 83 Tejas mk1a order will be of mk1 standard just like 8 nos Tejas Trainers of initial 40 Tejas mk1 standard planned to be delivered in 2021-23.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Prem Kumar » 07 Jan 2020 18:51

Woohoo! Hope they stick to the date.

Didn't know that FOC Tejas has the Gsh Gun

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 07 Jan 2020 21:29

There was a Lockheed martin article on how they rolled out the 136 F-35s last year.
I wanted to post it here to study the mfg flow.
Let me find it.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 07 Jan 2020 21:46

ashishvikas wrote:HAL on a war-footing to roll out 4 new Tejas [b]variants in 3 months[/b]

- by Anantha Krishnan M

https://english.manoramaonline.com/news ... llout.html

- SP21 to SP24 are being targeted by March-20
- SP21 first flight this month (delayed due to software upgrade)
- 16 FOC to be ready for March-21
- Gp Capt Manish Tolani, who is currently part of the No 45 Squadron Flying Daggers, would be the CO of second squadron.
- HAL might next take up the work of 18 Tejas Trainers from next year to avoid a possible production holiday.


What a shoddy piece of writing? The article rambles and mixes up jargon for effect.
He needs to have one subject per sentence and one idea per paragraph.

I wish more of our members take up writing and put these old war horses to pasture.

The four planes are the FOC variant of the LCA.
Not four variants which is all together different thing.

And what he is not bring out is the Mk1A is different than the FOC version of the LCA and hence the HAL engineer pride in delivering first plane by 36 months of receiving the contract. This is a development and production contract. It leverages on the FOC version.

Also the technical word is production gap not production holiday.
Nobody is off taking a break.
This is why I said shoddy writing.
He had exclusive access as former HAL employee and muffs up the assignment.

Integrating the gun in FOC is a huge achievement and is being passed on with out remarks.

The issues of accuracy, mount stiffness, the vibration on the nearby LRUs. In fact the whole routing of cable harness was all must have changed.


Prasad be prepared to step up.

HAL
Basically FOC 16 (ECD March 2021) +8 trainers+10 trainers+ 73 MK1A (start 36 months after contract signing)

Can some one draw a waterfall/Gantt Chart of the Tejas Production schedule?

This will keep them busy till MWF and beyond.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby SaiK » 07 Jan 2020 23:54

ramana wrote:There was a Lockheed martin article on how they rolled out the 136 F-35s last year.
I wanted to post it here to study the mfg flow.
Let me find it.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/201 ... s-in-2019/

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby SaiK » 08 Jan 2020 00:00

SaiK wrote:
ramana wrote:There was a Lockheed martin article on how they rolled out the 136 F-35s last year.
I wanted to post it here to study the mfg flow.
Let me find it.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/201 ... s-in-2019/

but stats in this article would make more sense to brf folks here:
https://www.flightglobal.com/analysis/a ... ?adredir=1

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 08 Jan 2020 00:09

The flight global one requires registration and the dallas news is short on details.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby kit » 08 Jan 2020 03:04

Image

Image

Production of the F-35 Lightning II is on course to make its latest rate rise this year, after Lockheed Martin met its contractual target to deliver 91 of the fifth-generation fighter during 2018.

Detailing last year's delivery total, Lockheed says a combined 54 aircraft were handed over to the US Air Force, US Marine Corps and US Navy, while 21 went to partner nations. The remaining 16 were shipped to Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programme customers.

Lockheed has hailed its achievement of the 2018 delivery target as "demonstrating the F-35 enterprise's ability to ramp up to full-rate production". "Year-over-year, we have increased production, lowered costs, reduced build time, and improved quality and on-time deliveries," notes Greg Ulmer, the company's general manager of the F-35 programme.

F-35 table

That optimism will face a stern test during 2019, however, with an expected 40% increase in output to see Lockheed hand over in excess of 130 units: a rise of at least 39 from last year and roughly double the volume transferred in 2017, when 66 examples were completed.

Flight Fleets Analyzer records a current active fleet of 352 F-35s, assigned to 10 nations. This total includes assets being used in support of initial operational test and evaluation, which are excluded from our annual World Air Forces directory listing.

F-35A - US Air Force

US Air Force

Our data shows that the US armed services account for 75% of the global F-35 fleet, with the USAF's inventory alone representing a 49% share. Between them, Australia, Israel, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, South Korea, Turkey and the UK have received 88 F-35s. The leading international users so far are the UK (17), Norway (16) and Israel (14).

Lockheed uses a further 13 test airframes in support of the programme: five short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) examples, and four each in the conventional take-off and landing and carrier variant models.

F-35 table

Notable milestones for the programme last year included the completion of its 11-year-long system development and demonstration phase, during which some 9,200 sorties were flown, totalling some 17,000 flight hours.

Production deliveries passed the 300 mark in mid-year and the annual target was met despite the USAF briefly suspending its acceptance of new jets while a contractual dispute was resolved over repairing an exterior panel corrosion issue. The Italian navy, meanwhile, took delivery of its first F-35B from a final assembly and check-out line at Cameri air base (below).

F-35B Cameri - Italian defence ministry

Italian defence ministry

Operational highlights included two air-to-surface combat debuts in the Middle East region, respectively involving the Israeli air force's F-35I "Adir" fleet and the USMC's F-35B.

In Europe, the Italian air force's December declaration of initial operational capability status with its A-model jets was swiftly followed by the Royal Air Force's 617 Sqn achieving the same milestone with its STOVL examples. This followed more UK success, during initial landing trials conducted aboard the Royal Navy aircraft carrier HMSQueen Elizabeth. The Royal Australian Air Force's 3 Sqn also received the nation's first operational F-35As, at its Williamtown base in New South Wales.

F-35As Hornets - Commonwealth of Australia

Commonwealth of Australia

Some gloss was removed from these successes, however, when the USMC lost an F-35B during a training flight staged from MCAS Beaufort, in South Carolina - the first crash involving a Lighting II.

Another cause of programme headwinds stemmed from strained relations between the USA and international partner Turkey, which could see Washington DC block the transfer of F-35As to the nation over its planned purchase of advanced surface-to-air missile systems from Russia. Training is, however, still being provided to Turkish pilots and maintainers at Luke AFB, in Arizona.

Regarding future business prospects, Belgium has commenced discussions linked to a potential acquisition of 34 F-35As, having selected the type instead of the Eurofighter Typhoon. The Netherlands is eyeing an increased acquisition, which would boost its eventual fleet size by 15 aircraft, to 52. Japan, meanwhile, has indicated that it could purchase up to another 105 F-35s to meet its future fighter requirements, on top of the 42 to which it has already committed.

Lockheed also appears to be edging closer to agreeing a multi-year contract arrangement with the US Department of Defense, which would support a key programme objective on price reduction. The unit cost for an F-35A in the most recent round of production was $89.2 million, and the company says the programme is "on track to deliver an $80 million" aircraft during lot 14 of low-rate initial production during 2020.

F-35As - Royal Norwegian Air Force

Royal Norwegian Air Force

Worth an estimated $22.7 billion, a multi-year deal covering 255 aircraft is now being discussed with the DoD. This proposed total would include 106 for the US services, plus 89 for international partners and 60 for FMS buyers.

Source: Flight International

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 08 Jan 2020 03:15

kit thanks.

supratik had found another article that breaks down the mfg plant for F35.


Back in 2015, they were expecting to make 200 in 2019.

16 "mate stations" to bring the major parts of the aircraft body together (forward, center and aft fuselages and aircraft wings
12 positions for final assembly
10 positions for spray paint preparation

https://www.defensedaily.com/lockheed-m ... navy-usmc/


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 08 Jan 2020 03:17

.And let's see what HAL can learn from this to speed up. The innovation is the multiple final assy and spray paint sections. And adequate piece parts from suppliers.

Let's find out about HAL plant and how do they map.
I recall HAL has 16 assembly jigs for Tejas.

Don't know if these are final assembly also.
And how many paint booths.


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