Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 20 Mar 2020 19:09


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 20 Mar 2020 19:13

I can see HVT Sir clearly :) He is the tallest pilot in the line up.

https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/12390 ... 88097?s=20 ---> The full hoard of fixed-wingers does manage to get together once a year. In the sky too - one of our bigger formations. Helios beat us at numbers. More flyers & birds incoming. Pic courtesy Sanjay Simha.

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Dileep » 20 Mar 2020 21:45

Rakesh wrote:Gurus, true?

https://twitter.com/sakthivel_cit93/sta ... 52257?s=20 ---> Radome diameter determines the diameter of radar. Tejas Mk1 has a higher radome (nose cone base diameter) than Rafale. That means in every upgrade it can get a larger size AESA radar (eyes of the fighter, crucial for BVR missile fight) than Rafale.


I have seen both Uttam and RBE2 up close. Yes, the RBE2 is smaller in diameter, and the TR modules are smaller and closely spaced. It is a beauty engg wise. Drool worthy onlee. Someone who flew it told me that it performs like a dream too. It sets a tall benchmark for Uttam to beat some day.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Dileep » 20 Mar 2020 21:54

They had some component obsolescence issue, resulting in unavailability of a few LRUs. I get a suspicion that it could the reason why the 15 and 16 are still at 'mayka'.

Orders are always placed piecemeal to the suppliers, and stuff designed in early 2000s go obsolete or unavailable with very long lead time. Every time I get a chance to have chai, it invariably is accompanied by whines about this. A lot of scavenging, cannibalization and sometimes pure jugaad happens to counter.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Mort Walker » 20 Mar 2020 23:18

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1240963755275456512?s=20 ---> A great shot of Tejas captured by @tarmaktalking Video Editor, Murali during a recent shoot.



All of the pics of the Tejas coming out show the sheet metal work comparable to western aircraft and not the sloppy sheet metal work seen on Russian aircraft. Good fitting to prevent water from getting in and causing corrosion. In the 1990s when the USAF got Su-27s and Mig-29s to evaluate and sent to various USAF centers, the soviet/Russian sheet metal work was abysmal.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Gyan » 20 Mar 2020 23:28

No CCS Approval, No Agreement with HAL, no release of Funds & no clearance of Bulk production yet for 83 MKIA. Anyone hopeful about 31st March?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby VinodTK » 21 Mar 2020 02:18

Gyan wrote:No CCS Approval, No Agreement with HAL, no release of Funds & no clearance of Bulk production yet for 83 MKIA. Anyone hopeful about 31st March?

^^^ Pending cabinet approval before signing.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 21 Mar 2020 02:53

Dileep wrote:They had some component obsolescence issue, resulting in unavailability of a few LRUs. I get a suspicion that it could the reason why the 15 and 16 are still at 'mayka'.

Orders are always placed piecemeal to the suppliers, and stuff designed in early 2000s go obsolete or unavailable with very long lead time. Every time I get a chance to have chai, it invariably is accompanied by whines about this. A lot of scavenging, cannibalization and sometimes pure jugaad happens to counter.


Thank you for the explanation Dileep. How is this obsolescence issue not present in SP-17 (formerly SP-21) and all other FOC fighters? Has it been already catered for by upgrading to new LRUs?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 21 Mar 2020 03:01

Mort Walker wrote:
Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1240963755275456512?s=20 ---> A great shot of Tejas captured by @tarmaktalking Video Editor, Murali during a recent shoot.



All of the pics of the Tejas coming out show the sheet metal work comparable to western aircraft and not the sloppy sheet metal work seen on Russian aircraft. Good fitting to prevent water from getting in and causing corrosion. In the 1990s when the USAF got Su-27s and Mig-29s to evaluate and sent to various USAF centers, the soviet/Russian sheet metal work was abysmal.


Most of what you think is sheet metal is actually composites. The Tejas has one of the highest percentages of composites on the skin and also in the structure. But clearly, the build quality of the Series Production jets is excellent.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 21 Mar 2020 10:13

ravikr wrote:#JustIn
VIDEO #Tejas #SP21 on its maiden flight. @akananth#Tarmak007 #LCA #FlyingBullets


https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1239824804758220800

Considering this being first flight of FOC, and that it would (most likely) be with no telemetry, isn't it a bit puzzling that there seems to be no chase plane?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Khalsa » 21 Mar 2020 17:00

Kartik wrote:Thank you for the explanation Dileep. How is this obsolescence issue not present in SP-17 (formerly SP-21) and all other FOC fighters? Has it been already catered for by upgrading to new LRUs?


Wait wait ....
formerly SP-21.

Is that formal and official now that 21 and 22 will be re-named/ renumbered as 17 and 18.
(and by formal I mean HAL is saying it not us on forums)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby SidSoma » 21 Mar 2020 17:38

basant wrote:Considering this being first flight of FOC, and that it would (most likely) be with no telemetry, isn't it a bit puzzling that there seems to be no chase plane?


On a lighter note.......
What chase plane.... it offers no protection like the combination of a coconut, 2 lemons and a bunch of flowers....

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nam » 21 Mar 2020 17:56

basant wrote:
ravikr wrote:#JustIn
VIDEO #Tejas #SP21 on its maiden flight. @akananth#Tarmak007 #LCA #FlyingBullets


https://twitter.com/writetake/status/1239824804758220800

Considering this being first flight of FOC, and that it would (most likely) be with no telemetry, isn't it a bit puzzling that there seems to be no chase plane?


It is FOC production item, not development. FOC development finished by end of 2018. So there is no need for chase plane.

They are running production tests, before handing it over to IAF squadron.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 21 Mar 2020 18:15

nam wrote:
basant wrote:Considering this being first flight of FOC, and that it would (most likely) be with no telemetry, isn't it a bit puzzling that there seems to be no chase plane?


It is FOC production item, not development. FOC development finished by end of 2018. So there is no need for chase plane.

They are running production tests, before handing it over to IAF squadron.

Thank you for the clarification. IIRC, this is the first FOC aircraft whose specs were tested in parts on others towards certification. Plus there were rumors on having newer FBW. So I was just wondering. :)

SidSoma wrote:
basant wrote:Considering this being first flight of FOC, and that it would (most likely) be with no telemetry, isn't it a bit puzzling that there seems to be no chase plane?


On a lighter note.......
What chase plane.... it offers no protection like the combination of a coconut, 2 lemons and a bunch of flowers....

:lol:
True. But telemetry also offers no protection! :wink:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Dileep » 21 Mar 2020 18:27

Kartik wrote:Thank you for the explanation Dileep. How is this obsolescence issue not present in SP-17 (formerly SP-21) and all other FOC fighters? Has it been already catered for by upgrading to new LRUs?

Obviously they must have used whatever available on SP-17 nee 21, and left 15 and 16 waiting. The :twisted: side of me would even look for 'long term grounded' aircraft from the LSP or one absent from the flight line at Sulur. We don't get to see/hear such things na?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby srin » 21 Mar 2020 19:55

Indranil wrote:
suryag wrote:IR and other gurus two questions. I presume the gun hasnt been fired till date in air, true/false? Second, in one of the LSPs the small little hole on the spine(pardon my terminology) close to the vertical stabilizer was have a rounded clam shape however, nowadays they have gone back and made it regular duct shape whats the story behind it.

1. The gun hasn't been fired in the air. But did you notice the unpainted area just ahead of the gun in SP21. First time ;-)
[...]


I'm quite surprised. I'd have expected that it'd have been trialled in one of the PVs or LSPs. For multiple reasons
- To gauge the stress it puts on the components.
- To integrate with the avionics. I recall watching a video long ago of a US fighter (Hornet I think) HUD that showed the dispersion cone of shells, and I presume that other fighters have similar sights/aids. And they'd have to test it out in the air to match theory against reality and calibrate the avionics.
- Having FOC aircraft do the gun testing would probably delay it's induction into squadron ?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 21 Mar 2020 21:28

srin wrote:
Indranil wrote:1. The gun hasn't been fired in the air. But did you notice the unpainted area just ahead of the gun in SP21. First time ;-)
[...]


I'm quite surprised. I'd have expected that it'd have been trialled in one of the PVs or LSPs. For multiple reasons
- To gauge the stress it puts on the components.
- To integrate with the avionics. I recall watching a video long ago of a US fighter (Hornet I think) HUD that showed the dispersion cone of shells, and I presume that other fighters have similar sights/aids. And they'd have to test it out in the air to match theory against reality and calibrate the avionics.
- Having FOC aircraft do the gun testing would probably delay it's induction into squadron ?

My guess would be that while calibration can (and probably will) be done on prototypes, the only remaining work on FOC would be to apply a software patch.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ashishvikas » 23 Mar 2020 15:52

LCA Tejas Division of #HAL continues to inspire us amidst the #Corona scare. Here's #TejasSP22 undergoing the EGR. The first flight should be soon. And, let's not forget the lockdown in #Bangalore and the difficult situations. #FlyingBullets

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/12 ... 5477643264

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 23 Mar 2020 23:58

Tejas looks better in primer and without the two tone dark grey and lighter grey colors. Would look a LOT better in a uniform light grey all over paint scheme.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nam » 24 Mar 2020 00:08

Check out the build quality.Mashallah. Are the private sector parts now coming in? SP16 had the wings. I wonder if the fuselage is now available as well. It has been a year since Sp16.

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 24 Mar 2020 00:09

Is it possible to apply the same dark grey color to the nose cone as well? Or does the material (quartz) of the radome restrict it to specific colors?

We can see this in the M2k and Su-30 fleet as well. The older models had a black radome. The M2k-I has a light grey radome as does the newer Su-30 builds (Mk-3 onwards perhaps). Was this because of a change in radome material?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nam » 24 Mar 2020 00:09

Fabulous decision to go for composite, despite the brickbats ADA received for so many years for "aiming high".

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vamsee » 24 Mar 2020 00:10

@Rakesh,

Time to update the first post :-)

=============================

@hvtiaf

Previously, HAL's first FOC series production aircraft SP-21 rechristened as SP-17 (AF tail number LA-5017).

SP-1 to 16 (LA-5001 to LA-5016) are IOC single seat variants

SPT-1 to 4 will be LT-5201 to LT-5204 & so on for FOC & Mk-1A twin seat variants.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2020 00:29

Vamsee Saar, you rock! Thank you. Updated Page 1.

BTW, do we have the link of HVT Sir's tweet?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vamsee » 24 Mar 2020 00:45

Rakesh wrote:Vamsee Saar, you rock! Thank you. Updated Page 1.

BTW, do we have the link of HVT Sir's tweet?


https://twitter.com/hvtiaf/status/1242151451708624896

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2020 01:40

Thanks Vamsee!

BTW, does anyone know from which production line SP-17 (formerly SP-21) came out from?

I need to add that on the first page. Thanks.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 24 Mar 2020 03:03

From what Dileep had written a couple of pages earlier

Here is the detail from the presentation by Yogindra at SIATI SCM Conference:
LCA Division is line 1. They also manage the outsourcing and supply chain management. Their current capacity is 8 AC per year.
Aircraft Division is Line 2. Here they run the second sub assembly and integration lines. Their current capacity is 4 AC per year.
They plan to reach 16 AC per year by "capacity augmentation" of these two lines onlee.
There was no mention of the "third line" in his presentation. So, IMO, that doesn't exist.


From what we've seen coming from Ananth Krishnan, it is the Aircraft Division that rolled out SP-17. That would be Line 2.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2020 05:00

Perfect. Thanks Kartik. Updated Page 1 again.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby sajaym » 24 Mar 2020 08:01

ashishvikas wrote:...

The height of the cockpit from the ground never ceases to amaze me. I wonder if any of the Gnat/Ajeet fighter designers were on board the LCA team too. In a scramble, a pilot can literally be in the cockpit with just one leg on the ladder...Just like how it was in the Gnat! :D

(PS: My comments about Gnat are based on an article on BRF by some Gnat pilot...AM Raghavendra I think)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby suryag » 24 Mar 2020 08:05

Gurus is the IFR probe fitted after this event ?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 24 Mar 2020 11:10

I think there is a provision between the Canopy and Nose cone where the Ground Crew can attach or Detach the IFR, Besides, Flag, serial No. etc are yet to be painted, I guess IFR will be fixed as one of the Last stages.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby srin » 24 Mar 2020 13:51

Is IFR optional ? Can IAF choose to fly the Tejas on a sortie with the IFR probe removed ?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 24 Mar 2020 14:10

I don't to what to what extent Bolt on is meant here, and what impact it has on FBW software and adjustments, I dont know it can fly with the IFR removed but I think ground crew should be able remove and replace the IFR probe in case of any damage etc.

5 year old article

https://www.news18.com/blogs/india/saurav-jha/the-radiance-of-tejas-a-bright-prospect-for-make-in-india-10879-748651.html

However FOC for the Tejas Mk-I is now expected to be achieved only by late 2015. This, according to Dr K. Tamilmani, Director General (Aero),DRDO, is chiefly on account of delays in receiving two significant parts from an overseas vendor that will need to be certified for FOC acceptance. These are of course a bolt on inflight refuelling (IFR) probe and a new quartz nose cone radome, both of which are being procured from different divisions of UK's Cobham.


Looks like the Mirage 2000 and Rafale probes are removable, so this probably applies to Tejas as well

https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/defense/customer-support/operational-aircraft/mirage-2000/

Fixed (removable) probe for in-flight refuelling

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 24 Mar 2020 20:12

Rakesh wrote:Thanks Vamsee!

BTW, does anyone know from which production line SP-17 (formerly SP-21) came out from?

I need to add that on the first page. Thanks.


LCA Division https://english.manoramaonline.com/news/nation/2020/03/17/first-tejas-foc-fighter-upgraded-features.html

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 24 Mar 2020 20:21

Kartik posted earlier that it was Line 2 or did I read that incorrectly?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby naird » 24 Mar 2020 22:20

This virus situation has me worried - what are the chances that MK1A deal will sail through. We will be going through a tremendous economic upheaval..

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby JTull » 24 Mar 2020 22:32

Rakesh wrote:Kartik posted earlier that it was Line 2 or did I read that incorrectly?


This is quoted by Anantha Krishnan. I'd believe him over anyone, other than an insider, on this matter. You could DM him on teetar.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 25 Mar 2020 07:21

naird wrote:This virus situation has me worried - what are the chances that MK1A deal will sail through. We will be going through a tremendous economic upheaval..

It will be an annual allocation. No one is going to give the whole amount now

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 25 Mar 2020 11:24


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Yagnasri » 25 Mar 2020 13:13

No gun firing as per reports? It was not part of FOC as it takes long time?


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