Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ks_sachin » 27 Jul 2020 16:02

Kraghab hi did you read Vidurji's post in the other thread. Most depressing..
OFB / DPSU / DPP / SPP / MRP. Kuch Kam nahin Karta...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Khalsa » 27 Jul 2020 16:43

basant wrote:Tejas is ADA's product for Government of India.

I just want to take a minute to read this again and again and again.
and then reword it as ?
Tejas is ADA's design to be used for creating a product that meets the requirements of Indian Armed Forces.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 27 Jul 2020 19:25

^^^
Khalsa ji! ADA itself was set up to cater to Indian Armed Forces, so it's products will be in line with that objective. I understand what you are saying. As I said in the earlier post, I was just playing a bit of Devil's advocate.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 27 Jul 2020 19:30

ks_sachin wrote:
basant wrote:^^^
It is orders, agreed. However, what happened to FOC-2/SP-22 that did EGR in March? Other FOCs that were to fly by April? Even in emergency, we can't get almost ready birds into air it seems.

Sirjee,

This is not my realm of knowledge so I would not venture an opinion.

Are we absolutely sure that hat HAL is to blame??

Perhaps IR or JS or K could educate us.

Does Manufacturer not take the responsibility of the manufacturing? :wink:

The only news we have, if at all, was from IDRW. Not even Shiv Aroor in his interview with HAL MD asked these questions. Even during lockdown, Doctors, employees of pharmaceutical companies, etc. were working. Why won't the defense manufacturers do the same, if it was at all a priority, especially given that since May tensions have sky rocketed?

As they say, we cannot fix a problem if we do not accept it.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby John » 27 Jul 2020 23:26

ks_sachin wrote:
basant wrote:^^^
Just playing a bit of Devil's advocate, Tejas is ADA's product for Government of India. If 1 company cannot produce enough, it can be allowed to be produced by another. Boeing and Lockheed Martin are private companies and 737 belongs to one of them. Just like Boeing can decide to allow LM to produce 737s for them, if it makes profit.

Question is weather another player with all the skills will still deliver better than HAL.
is not prod rate and robust supply chain a function of the orders?

Order will come if IAF has faith HAL can deliver, as it stands HAL struggling to even get 10 ACs built a yr on paper it has capabilities to easy crank out double that. For comparison In spite of pandemic Dassault seems to have no problem sticking to schedules. Next year let's spin the wheel on what we can blame next for delays.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 27 Jul 2020 23:31

Indians are the only nationality that like to kiss their jobs goodbye. Every other country stands by their products - but not Indians. The US canceled the tanker competition when Airbus won it. But Indians love to go into a explainable frenzy in criticizing themselves and also sometimes inventing issues to berate local products.

This is the real reason that GOI and IAF are hiding one glaring issue - that the IAF is the weakest link of the Indian armed forces. As these are sensitive times, I will leave it at that.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 28 Jul 2020 01:57

John wrote:Order will come if IAF has faith HAL can deliver, as it stands HAL struggling to even get 10 ACs built a yr on paper it has capabilities to easy crank out double that. For comparison In spite of pandemic Dassault seems to have no problem sticking to schedules. Next year let's spin the wheel on what we can blame next for delays.

Rafales were ordered in September 2016 after initial Modi-Macron agreement in 2015. Contract signing was delayed due to French insistence on their conditions. Delivery to IAF occured in October 2019. This was all pre-pandemic. So what are you using to indicate that Dassault will deliver on time?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby John » 28 Jul 2020 03:38

Vivek K wrote:Indians are the only nationality that like to kiss their jobs goodbye. Every other country stands by their products - but not Indians. The US canceled the tanker competition when Airbus won it. But Indians love to go into a explainable frenzy in criticizing themselves and also sometimes inventing issues to berate local products.

This is the real reason that GOI and IAF are hiding one glaring issue - that the IAF is the weakest link of the Indian armed forces. As these are sensitive times, I will leave it at that.

We are quick to defend HAL Inspite of repeated failures and excuses while turning around and blaming IAF. Rather we should do everything possible to handle part of manufacturing to another entity which will also put pressure on HAL to innovate and stick to schedules.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ks_sachin » 28 Jul 2020 03:44

John wrote:
Vivek K wrote:Indians are the only nationality that like to kiss their jobs goodbye. Every other country stands by their products - but not Indians. The US canceled the tanker competition when Airbus won it. But Indians love to go into a explainable frenzy in criticizing themselves and also sometimes inventing issues to berate local products.

This is the real reason that GOI and IAF are hiding one glaring issue - that the IAF is the weakest link of the Indian armed forces. As these are sensitive times, I will leave it at that.

We are quick to defend HAL Inspite of repeated failures and excuses while turning around and blaming IAF. Rather we should do everything possible to handle part of manufacturing to another entity which will also put pressure on HAL to innovate and stick to schedules.

John ji
Fat chance of that happening anytime soon
We cannot break away from ODB to manu simple small arms ammo!!!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 28 Jul 2020 03:57

John wrote:
Vivek K wrote:Indians are the only nationality that like to kiss their jobs goodbye. Every other country stands by their products - but not Indians. The US canceled the tanker competition when Airbus won it. But Indians love to go into a explainable frenzy in criticizing themselves and also sometimes inventing issues to berate local products.

This is the real reason that GOI and IAF are hiding one glaring issue - that the IAF is the weakest link of the Indian armed forces. As these are sensitive times, I will leave it at that.

We are quick to defend HAL Inspite of repeated failures and excuses while turning around and blaming IAF. Rather we should do everything possible to handle part of manufacturing to another entity which will also put pressure on HAL to innovate and stick to schedules.

Facts can be supported - you provided "alternative facts". The defense is not of HAL - but of Indian jobs. At last check, Indians seemed to work for HAL. No issues with DRDO/HAL being initially relegated to tech developer that auctions tech to pvt parties. But unless good products like LCA, Arjun, Nag, Akash, Astra are supported whole heartedly - the mafia's hold on Indian Armed Forces and of cultivating politicians for election support will come in the way of a strategic force development.
We're talking about Rafales striking Balakot but still with MKI cover. So what changed with 10 years of Capex being blown on imports?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby John » 28 Jul 2020 04:03

Vivek K wrote:
John wrote:We are quick to defend HAL Inspite of repeated failures and excuses while turning around and blaming IAF. Rather we should do everything possible to handle part of manufacturing to another entity which will also put pressure on HAL to innovate and stick to schedules.

Facts can be supported - you provided "alternative facts". The defense is not of HAL - but of Indian jobs. At last check, Indians seemed to work for HAL. No issues with DRDO/HAL being initially relegated to tech developer that auctions tech to pvt parties. But unless good products like LCA, Arjun, Nag, Akash, Astra are supported whole heartedly - the mafia's hold on Indian Armed Forces and of cultivating politicians for election support will come in the way of a strategic force development.
We're talking about Rafales striking Balakot but still with MKI cover. So what changed with 10 years of Capex being blown on imports?

I am not saying import the Jets pointing out other manufacturers have no problem sticking to schedules inspite of Covid. Unfortunately this how most criticism of HAL ends we end up blaming import lobby or IAF and missing the point entirely and status quo is maintained. We need to support local industries but cannot keep throwing money at entities that continue to fail repeatedly.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 28 Jul 2020 04:28

Well - the LCA is a pretty good plane from a rookie company. Do you remember the delays in MKI deliveries? Well that can happen to HAL too till we put strategic goals in their sight - when they know they will have regular (orders) delivery schedules AND regular payment. To stand up another entity is a great idea and the GOI will need to talk with its pockets and not just pay lip service (like they do to pvt industry). L&T invested so much money in the ATV hull fabrication - were they selected for any other sub manufacture job? No pvt player will invest for the sake of patriotism so that his family can all commit suicide. GOI will need to fund pvt players - especially their losses. That is how the US industry was built.

And it seems that to justify any import, we indulge in DRDO/HAL bashing. When foreign products come up short, what do you do? Order more. Take the case of the 29k - what is the IN doing after its only carrier fighter has shown to be less than reliable - completely replace the fleet with another in short time. How about feeling bad about that? Who was blamed for T-90s not even completing the course in the Tank biathlon? In recent decades DRDO has given products like Arihant Class, LCA, NLCA, Akash, Astra, Agni series, so if some development does not pan out do you need to blame it for everything?

The Chinese seem to be able to fight with inferior quality domestic weapons. So why can't we? Tactics can trump quality sometimes. The answer is not have the longest range missile and the most expensive fighter but a system that can fight over long periods and churn out more weapons on demand.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby JayS » 28 Jul 2020 04:58

basant wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Sirjee,

This is not my realm of knowledge so I would not venture an opinion.

Are we absolutely sure that hat HAL is to blame??

Perhaps IR or JS or K could educate us.

Does Manufacturer not take the responsibility of the manufacturing? :wink:

The only news we have, if at all, was from IDRW. Not even Shiv Aroor in his interview with HAL MD asked these questions. Even during lockdown, Doctors, employees of pharmaceutical companies, etc. were working. Why won't the defense manufacturers do the same, if it was at all a priority, especially given that since May tensions have sky rocketed?

As they say, we cannot fix a problem if we do not accept it.

You should ask that question to Central and KA govt, no, why they imposed lockdown and didnt give waiver to HAL and all its suplliers..?? I very much wanted LCA program to run despite lockdown but it wasnt HAL's decision no? You are making it sound like HAL or their suppliers had a choice here. KA govt gave a waiver to Aerospace mfg plants in KA only to the extent they needed to fulfil export deliveries and nothing else. If Govt itself doesnt feel its as imp as doctors and pharma company workers, what to do...???

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 30 Jul 2020 08:32


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 30 Jul 2020 11:05

I hear that the GOI and the IAF are so happy with Rafale that the order for 83 Mk1As is to be converted into an order for 83 MK2 which will subsequently be not accepted due to shortfalls in meeting GSQR. Arjunesque!

Someone posted on twitter - He dreams for a time when a nation that imports an Indian fighter will have this orgasmic celebration upon its induction.

For an industrialized nation this import makes us all hang our heads in shame. We have been abject failures as engineers. Our DM went begging to France and Russia in a crisis - and this when every service chief has assured the nation that we are prepared to meet any eventuality. Lies, just like many others fed to a believing population that rejoices in being assured of safety with a mere 3 new fighters and 2 trainers being inducted.

This against an enemy that can deploy 500 Su-27 class aircraft of varying capabilities against 300 much more capable Su-30 MKI flown by the IAF. The IAF would be foolish to deploy the Rafale to the LAC at this time. That task should remain with MKIs, 29ks and M2ks. The LCAs should be moved in as well to be able to fly against both Pukistan and China.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Jul 2020 11:15

Vivek K-> this is the typical Indian speculation trying to spoil the nice moment of the Rafale arriving, no doubt promoted by the pro Paki and Import lobby.

Lets give it 6 months but we believe MK1A is very much on.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 30 Jul 2020 11:51

Aditya_V wrote:Vivek K-> this is the typical Indian speculation trying to spoil the nice moment of the Rafale arriving, no doubt promoted by the pro Paki and Import lobby.

Lets give it 6 months but we believe MK1A is very much on.

Really - if you flip the coin - I don’t see anything nice about it from my perspective. And I may have misunderstood but do not dare call me pro-paki. We have different perspectives but that does not giveYou the right to use below the belt language to attack me. From my point of view people supporting the Rafale are pro paki!! They want IAF to remain weak by making these ridiculously expensive purchases so that fleet strength enhancement to 45 squadrons will remains a pipe dream,

The Sukhois we’re providing the air dominance capability based upon what successive chiefs have told us. The MMRCA saga began with IAF looking good M2Ks purchase to increase their number. And that has landed into this mess. The LCA would have been a great fit with the Sukhois, 29s and M2Ks. With its ground strike capabilities demonstrated at gaganshakti, LCA should have replaced the unreliable 27s and the crappy Jags!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 30 Jul 2020 12:17

Rafale and Tejas are both required, Tejas Mk1, IA and MK2, MWF, TEDBF etc plus AMCA in numbers. But Rafale with lower RCS , good range, Metoer does serve a purpose for certain missions.

Tejas along Mig 29 will be the first line of defense once the Bisons retire- these will be aircraft which will be on ORP and scramble, the SU-30, M-2000, Jaguar, rafale will have other missions.

While over the top celebrations are not required, no need to say due to Rafale Tejas is cancelled. What we need to do is cancel the MRCA 2.0 and get the Tejas production system up and running.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Sumeet » 30 Jul 2020 12:36

Tejas Mk1A and Tejas MK2/MWF will be backbone of our fighter force for a long time to come.
We should play smart here and get all sensors and avionics ready in time even if foreign collaboration is needed with Elta/Elisra/Elettronica etc. Eventually what is imported content can be swapped out with desi stuff. But this whole approach where either we do it 100% by ourselves or keep delaying is not going to cut given our precarious security neighborhood.

Su-30 MKI at least 8-10 squadrons of them need to be upgraded to Super 30 standards
Avionics and sensors developed for MWF will come in handy here

AMCA version 1

Followed by AMCA version 2

Only other foreign import that I see happening in next 5-7 years will be 2-3 additional squadrons of Rafale at F4/F5 level.

I don't know why we feel so pessimistic. We should play it smart and give it to IAF in time with partial foreign content. As long as platform is indigenous its a good beginning rest can be indigenized over time.

How much of Grippen is indigenous but still people are buying it (SA, Brazil etc) ?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 30 Jul 2020 23:23

rakesh ji...may i request you to please check SP 21 related info on first page of the thread needs an update....there are some previous posts of it with SP 21 in air...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 30 Jul 2020 23:51

Vivek K wrote:I hear that the GOI and the IAF are so happy with Rafale that the order for 83 Mk1As is to be converted into an order for 83 MK2 which will subsequently be not accepted due to shortfalls in meeting GSQR. Arjunesque!

Where is this information coming from? What is the source? Random anonymous handle on Twitter conjuring up stuff in their head?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 30 Jul 2020 23:57

ArjunPandit wrote:rakesh ji...may i request you to please check SP 21 related info on first page of the thread needs an update....there are some previous posts of it with SP 21 in air...

Link?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby YashG » 30 Jul 2020 23:59

@indranil @KaranM and other gurus - I have some questions.
LCA design is unique in the world - we built it up from ground up. IN a lot of ways HAL has added to the universe of aeronautical engineering. We did end up spending so much time in making this design work.

But lets look at what China has done - PRC had been manufacturing planes since 60s - they started with copying Mig-15s, then they copied Mig-21 ( Soviets transferred incomplete tech but they still did a lot). Then they copied Lavi, then Su-27. In all these decades you'd think they would have learnt enough to probably build something original. but no! After Su-27, they copied F-22...J-20 but then US said we r moving to F-35 for scale, So China did that too with J-31.

1. With 60 years of experience in Aviation mfg - they cant still come up with a design of their own? Is there a point where this will come back to haunt them?
2. More importantly - if India had decided to copy up a design - wouldn't it have saved us maybe half or full decade.
3. But now that we didn't - we must have learnt a lot. You think this whole exercise of doing our original design will get us ahead of Chinese in terms of building planes? Or it just a good brownie point. Like they say good guys finish last!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby suryag » 31 Jul 2020 00:17

Yash G sir am not a guru but my two cents on this. One of the things that has impeded PRC's progress has been advances in compute technology. To start off with Aircraft design was a black art with a lot of the design relying almost on the brilliance and experience of a bunch of designers. There were no real enabler tools to help and even if they were the compute was not democratized. To give PRC engineers their due, in the absence of all the solvers, machine tools, Fluid Dynamics tools, harness management, onboard compute they copied to the extent possible and it came with its share of woes. Now that they have copied almost all the enablers I expect them to make faster progress with the next generation. Similar is the case with us, we now have people with tribal knowledge and most of the accelerators/enablers(of course no engine test bed yet :()

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 31 Jul 2020 00:28

The J-20 is by no means a copy of the F-22. The designs are significantly different. If it can be compared to anything it is the Mig 1.44 MFI prototype that flew in 2000 although with stealth shaping and modern avionics added in. Even that resemblance is probably by accident.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 31 Jul 2020 01:37

@rakesh ji

Isn't it for SP 21?..for a sec i thought of deleting pics..but darn they are so awesome i cant do that myself... :P :P :P :P

basant wrote:Is it just me, or there is some slight difference for SP-21's gun?

Image

Also, is that a small exhaust at the front end of the tail (facing rear end) or some sensor?

Image

Image

This image is just for beauty :D
Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 31 Jul 2020 01:42

ArjunPandit wrote:@rakesh ji

Isn't it for SP 21?..for a sec i thought of deleting pics..but darn they are so awesome i cant do that myself... :P :P :P :P

Whoa! Isn't SP-21 actually SP-17 now? Gurus, please advise.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 31 Jul 2020 02:05

Admiral, as IAF requested, we shouldn't be tracking the actual tail numbers. SP-21 is HAL internal designation and we may retain it. Just my thoughts.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ArjunPandit » 31 Jul 2020 02:58

Rakesh wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:@rakesh ji

Isn't it for SP 21?..for a sec i thought of deleting pics..but darn they are so awesome i cant do that myself... :P :P :P :P

Whoa! Isn't SP-21 actually SP-17 now? Gurus, please advise.

i might be wrong....i thought the 21 in the tail also stands for SP 21....so why it is taking so long cant we complete planes with social distancing or wearing PPE

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 31 Jul 2020 03:09

^^^
IAF started changing the tail numbers, probably first with SP-21. It is not uncommon to do so.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ks_sachin » 31 Jul 2020 08:16

ArjunPandit wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Whoa! Isn't SP-21 actually SP-17 now? Gurus, please advise.

i might be wrong....i thought the 21 in the tail also stands for SP 21....so why it is taking so long cant we complete planes with social distancing or wearing PPE

Please see JayS' post on delays.

Basically GoI or GoK have not given HAL permission to continue any manu activities. Now perm given to suppliers.

So now LCA depends on Covid vaccine

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby YashG » 31 Jul 2020 12:25

nachiket wrote:The J-20 is by no means a copy of the F-22. The designs are significantly different. If it can be compared to anything it is the Mig 1.44 MFI prototype that flew in 2000 although with stealth shaping and modern avionics added in. Even that resemblance is probably by accident.


I have read on multiple sources - reputed ones that (J-20, F-35) have external similarities and PRC was able to steal data from US F-35 program. But I'll not debate. I can agree I'm mistake here.

Yet majority of my question was if we just copy the external design - do we accelerate our aircraft design by 5-10 years ? Could we have done that ?
But now that we have been honest and learnt our design lessons over time - does it take us ahead of PRC on aircraft design in some aspect. Like was the ROI good enough for a completely new design.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 31 Jul 2020 15:41

Rakesh wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:@rakesh ji

Isn't it for SP 21?..for a sec i thought of deleting pics..but darn they are so awesome i cant do that myself... :P :P :P :P

Whoa! Isn't SP-21 actually SP-17 now? Gurus, please advise.


Yes it is. Basically, they'd skipped SP-17 to 20 and gone straight to 21 earlier, based on HAL's numbering logic. Angad Singh pointed this out on Twitter and in a few days, the SP-21 serial was seen changed to SP-17. So, it appears that single seaters will go with the SP series whereas the twin seaters will get a different series. Kinda like how RB and BS are used on the Rafale to denote twin and single seater variants.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 31 Jul 2020 16:23

Kartik wrote:Tejas Mk1 carrying 2 Derby BVRAAMs and 2 R-73Es. Daggers are getting properly armed now.


The Red finned R-73E is a dummy missile seen on PVs & LSPs. The rest are real ones. This looks like a trial LSP aircraft

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/T ... 712413.JPG
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/T ... 714420.JPG

Also none of the SPs have the speed tapes. Basant has posted SP images for reference.

nam wrote:This is the simple point IAF seems to be missing or ignoring. IOC getting upgraded quickly with BVRs. Similarly FOC built in numbers can be upgraded to MK1A, when it is available.

There will be structural and layout changes in Mk1A SOP. So even if more FOC SOP birds are built and upgraded with avionics and weapons, they will remain FOC SOP since they wont have the structural and layout evolutions of the Mk1A


basant wrote:Is it just me, or there is some slight difference for SP-21's gun?

The gun is a proper GSh-23. The IOC aircraft had housing for the guns but not the actual guns themselves. But that can be easily retrofitted.

basant wrote:Also, is that a small exhaust at the front end of the tail (facing rear end) or some sensor?

Its the fairing and housing for the chaff and flares CMDS dispenser. The empty slot in the housing is looking like an exhaust in this photo

Rakesh wrote:Whoa! Isn't SP-21 actually SP-17 now? Gurus, please advise.

Not a guru but SP-17 to 20 were the IOC trainers.

Now the 4 IOC and 4 FOC trainers will be part of 18 FOC trainers that will cover the production gap between FOC and Mk1A production

Total Tejas orders 16+16+18+873=123 will be the second largest fleet in IAF after Su-30MKI more than 116 Jaguars and 120 odd MiG-21 Bisons remaining in service.

If the MWF is delayed, the HAL union will ensure more Mk1A orders like they got the 12 Su-30MKI orders
Last edited by ramana on 03 Aug 2020 21:10, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited by ramana. Fixed the trainer and Mk1A numbers

Aditya_V
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 31 Jul 2020 16:54

Small correction TSarkar ji, 83 Mk1A includes 10 FOC trainers. I will be happy to be corrected but the plan right now is 16 IOC +16 FOC+ 18 FOC Standard 2 Seat trainers +73 Single Seat MK1A = 123.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby basant » 31 Jul 2020 17:05

tsarkar wrote:
basant wrote:Is it just me, or there is some slight difference for SP-21's gun?

The gun is a proper GSh-23. The IOC aircraft had housing for the guns but not the actual guns themselves. But that can be easily retrofitted.
...

Thanks sir. Something looked a bit different than in earlier picture. May the the angle and light. Thanks for the other clarifications too. :)

Any updates on IOC feedback from IAF? It would be good to know. :)

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 31 Jul 2020 17:19

Aditya_V wrote:Small correction TSarkar ji, 83 Mk1A includes 10 FOC trainers. I will be happy to be corrected but the plan right now is 16 IOC +16 FOC+ 18 FOC Standard 2 Seat trainers +73 Single Seat MK1A = 123.

Thanks for the correction, my mistake in getting the numbers wrong. I always thought trainers were FOC standards as Mk1A capabilities not required for trainers and hence all 83 Mk1A orders were single seaters. Anyways I am hopeful more Mk1A orders will materialize to keep the production lines busy. Ideally the MiG-29 and Su-30 orders could have been used to up the Tejas Mk1A with powerful Elta 2052 AESA compared to Bars and Zhuk radars on the older aircraft.
Last edited by tsarkar on 31 Jul 2020 20:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby VinodTK » 31 Jul 2020 18:44

Orders for 83 LCA Tejas Mark 1A jets likely before December | India Today Insight

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The next phase in the contract would be approval by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS), India’s topmost national security decision making body. This will be followed by a formal inking of the contract between HAL and the IAF. Delivery of the Mark 1As will start within three years of the contract being signed and will conclude with all aircraft delivered in five years.
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A Rs 39,000 crore order will have a force multiplier effect of nearly seven or eight times on the economy--jobs will be created, work will be outsourced, there is going to be a tremendous downstream effect on Tier 2 and Tier 3 manufacturing in the high-tech defence aviation sector,” an HAL official said.
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Five major private sector players—Larsen & Toubro, VEM Technologies, Alpha Tocol, Tata Advanced Materials and Dynamatic Technologies--are manufacturing the fuselages, wings, tail fins and rudders of the LCAs. These are being assembled by HAL at its twin production lines in Bengaluru.
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The IAF currently operates one squadron of the 16 ‘Mark 1’ baseline Tejas variants at its airbase in Sulur, Coimbatore. On May 27, the IAF operationalised the second squadron of the LCA Tejas. Number 18 squadron will get its entire 15 final operation configuration (FOC) aircraft by September 2021. These are part of an order for 40 LCAs that were placed in two tranches in 2006 and 2010. All deliveries will be completed in 2022.

HAL is building a third Tejas production line, to be set up this November, and this will roll out the two-seat trainer variants of the jet. The line will build a total of 18 LCA trainers that will commence deliveries from November 2021 onwards (8 are part of the 40 jets order, and 10 part of the 83 jets order).

Ater a 2017 presentation by then IAF chief Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa, the government had committed to buying 18 squadrons of the LCA and its variants—over 300 aircraft over the next 15 years. IAF officials say the LCA family fits into their plans to reduce existing diversity of fighter aircraft to just four types by 2035—the other three will be the Sukhois, Rafales and Mirage 2000s.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 31 Jul 2020 22:59

tsarkar wrote:Ideally the MiG-29 and Su-30 orders could have been used to up the Tejas Mk1A with powerful Elta 2052 AESA compared to Bars and Zhuk radars on the older aircraft.

The Mk1A is going to have the Elta 2052. That's one of the major changes in it from the Mk1. Do you mean you wanted the Mig-29's and Su-30's to have versions of the 2052 as well?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 31 Jul 2020 23:07

YashG wrote:I have read on multiple sources - reputed ones that (J-20, F-35) have external similarities and PRC was able to steal data from US F-35 program. But I'll not debate. I can agree I'm mistake here.
.....

This is the Tejas thread and this is OT. I answered here: viewtopic.php?p=2451342#p2451342


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