Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby vimal » 28 Aug 2020 10:17

MeshaVishwas wrote:https://twitter.com/Iyervval/status/1298874203815292935?s=20
Frauds that the program had to endure. Just a reminder.

He is an F-16 shill nothing else.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Hiten » 28 Aug 2020 13:22

More DASH-IV Helmets Arriving For LCA Tejas Flyers, IAF Trialing Headgears For Jaguar Pilots

The Indian Air Force [IAF] has put out a notice, making public intent to acquire 44 more DASH-IV Helmets [24 Nos. - Large; 20 Nos. - Medium sizes]. Pilots flying the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft [LCA] Tejas put them on during flight.

DASH-IV HMDS - Light Combat Aircraft Tejas - LCA Tejas - Indian Air Force - RFP - 01
DASH, acronym for Display And Sight Helmet system, projects vital flight parameters on the helmet visor itself. So, anywhere the pilot looks, the information is right in front of them. Enhances Ergonomics many fold. Significant benefit of these Israeli Elbit System-designed headwear is that the operator can cue in on the target by just turning head & looking towards it. During 2015-16, ADA reported successful integration & performance validation of the DASH-IV Helmet with the LCA Tejas. Suppliers have till September 15, 2020 to respond.


https://www.spansen.com/2020/08/more-da ... ilots.html

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby chetonzz » 28 Aug 2020 16:33

good PR for Tejas?
https://twitter.com/KanganaTeam/status/ ... 74530?s=20

side note: the aircraft in poster looks (or made to look) huge w.r.t. actual dimensions...

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Anshuman.Kumar » 28 Aug 2020 17:01

What's the present status of FOC Tejas delivery ..
Anyone has any idea

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby k prasad » 28 Aug 2020 21:37

chetonzz wrote:good PR for Tejas?
https://twitter.com/KanganaTeam/status/ ... 74530?s=20

side note: the aircraft in poster looks (or made to look) huge w.r.t. actual dimensions...

Uhmmm.... Kangna Ranaut is short. That looks about the right size for Tejas.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cyrano » 29 Aug 2020 21:54

Looks TFTA ;-) What is that periscope on top just aft of the cockpit canopy?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby k prasad » 29 Aug 2020 22:25

That is all top secret wonlee saar. We cant have our secret submersible Tejas program be leaked this way.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby dinesh_kimar » 29 Aug 2020 23:10

^ that's the coconut breaker, Saar, the Yeevil Hindoos have now moved the plane to FOC.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby k prasad » 30 Aug 2020 05:13

^^^ Thats because the IAF got its GSQRs from Swat Kats, and DRDO delivered, saar. Tejas can fly, go underwater, and even dig into the ground. But those are classified modes!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 30 Aug 2020 06:49

Any chaiwalla news on Tejas FOC deliveries?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 02 Sep 2020 01:00

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/130 ... 13792?s=20 ----> Interesting picture here of Indian High Commissioner to Bangladesh, Riva Ganguly Das presenting a sweet framed picture of LCA Tejas to the Chief of the Bangladesh Air Force, Air Chief Marshal Masihuzzaman Serniabat on Tuesday.

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby vivek_ahuja » 02 Sep 2020 10:20

The LCA is about the only bright spot in my list of Chimera/Fenix checklist items from 2014 that seems to have gone more-or-less as we thought it would (I mean, we always want more and faster, but what the hell). Compared to the LCH, Nirbhay, Vikrant, AEW and other program fiascos, this program is a shining light.

So did the orders for the 83 Mk-1s get signed? Please tell me we are not drifting on that signing!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby RKumar » 02 Sep 2020 14:31

There should be no signing until HAL can deliver at least another 3 birds ... It reflect poor image for the HAL, if there are still hiccups with production than either they have poor management or lack of accountability at HAL as they could not benefit from LSP to SP IOC to SP FOC transition and over-sold themself.

I have zero doubt regarding HAL capabilities to deliver but I am questioning can they deliver on time? It seems harsh, but fact is there are no regular deliveries of LCA. Push comes just before FY end - Feb and March. It could be a wrong calendar, I would love to hang a calendar at HAL with 6x Feb and 6x Mar in a year :evil:

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 02 Sep 2020 14:58

amar_p wrote:Looks TFTA ;-) What is that periscope on top just aft of the cockpit canopy?

VHF/UHF Blade Antenna for communication

k prasad wrote:^^^ Thats because the IAF got its GSQRs from Swat Kats, and DRDO delivered, saar.

Even in a joke, that is a very dirty comment.

One of the fake news created and propagated on Bharat Rakshak Forums is that IAF created unobtanium specs or changed them frequently and that delayed Tejas production. The fake news caught on and finally Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa had to clarify that IAF had not changed any ASQR and actually gave concessions.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 142246.ece
“IAF has not shifted any goal posts as alleged. The development has taken such an incredibly long time that armament and technology has gone obsolete… I as the service chief can make concessions to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). Will the enemy make concessions to me when I go and meet the enemy?” said ACM Dhanoa at the 10th Jumbo Majumdar international lecture organised by the Centre for Air Power Studies. “In combat, there is no silver medal. Either you win or you lose.”

His comments come in the backdrop of recent reports that IAF has been changing parameters of indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas adding to the delay in development. The IAF has contracted for 40 LCA Mk-I jets, issued a Request For Proposal (RFP) for 83 LCA Mk-IA variants and committed to procure 12 squadrons of LCA Mk-II and eventually the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).


ACM Dhanoa said a crucial contribution to the success of indigenisation was also the sacrifice of IAF’s pilots in testing these aircraft to battle worthy standards. “We have lost 17 pilots and engineers in air accidents during testing and evaluation of the indigenous Marut, Kiran, Ajeet, Saras and early warning prototype aircraft,” he said.


He also highlighted that the IAF had maintained the Air Staff Quality Requirements (ASQR) of the first 20 LCA Mk I at standards issued in 1985.

The entire 123 Mk1 are aerodynamically the same. Mk1A has only systems improvements like serviceability and AESA radars.

I would very humbly request Bharat Rakshak Website Owners, Administrators and Forum Moderators to put up this news link with Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa's statements on the first page of the Tejas Discussion Thread in the interest of honesty and fair play.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby k prasad » 02 Sep 2020 15:09

Tsarkar saar, thand rakh, yaar! See the few comments before my humourous comment. It was about the random periscope tube like thing in the poster of Kangna in front of a Tejas. Clearly all in jest.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ks_sachin » 02 Sep 2020 16:00

RKumar wrote:There should be no signing until HAL can deliver at least another 3 birds ... It reflect poor image for the HAL, if there are still hiccups with production than either they have poor management or lack of accountability at HAL as they could not benefit from LSP to SP IOC to SP FOC transition and over-sold themself.

I have zero doubt regarding HAL capabilities to deliver but I am questioning can they deliver on time? It seems harsh, but fact is there are no regular deliveries of LCA. Push comes just before FY end - Feb and March. It could be a wrong calendar, I would love to hang a calendar at HAL with 6x Feb and 6x Mar in a year :evil:


We have discussed why there is a hiccup currently and why timelines are not being met. Please read up before posting.
Please see JayS' post on the permissions from GoK and GoI to HAL and its supply chain to operate in this COVID environment.
HAL cannot do much if its lord and master and the step mother have a different view of LCA production.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 02 Sep 2020 17:47

k prasad wrote:Tsarkar saar, thand rakh, yaar! See the few comments before my humourous comment. It was about the random periscope tube like thing in the poster of Kangna in front of a Tejas. Clearly all in jest.

You were reinforcing false stereotypes under the guise of humorous comment.

Anyways ACM Dhanoa's comments against the fake news was published in the media long ago but being the inconvenient truth was not posted here.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby RKumar » 02 Sep 2020 18:05

ks_sachin wrote:We have discussed why there is a hiccup currently and why timelines are not being met. Please read up before posting.
Please see JayS' post on the permissions from GoK and GoI to HAL and its supply chain to operate in this COVID environment.
HAL cannot do much if its lord and master and the step mother have a different view of LCA production.


GoI and GoK can't chase 500 or 5000 vendors to ensure that HAL can deliver on time. It is up to HAL to chase vendors, GoI and GoK. If HAL would be privately owned by you, would you sit on your back while throwing hands in the air or will you burn the mid night oil to secure the supply chain? It comes back to leadership, ownership with a sense of accountability. I hear the similar stories with our Art delivery, these are pathetic excuses.
Last edited by RKumar on 02 Sep 2020 18:09, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ks_sachin » 02 Sep 2020 18:08

RKumar wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:We have discussed why there is a hiccup currently and why timelines are not being met. Please read up before posting.
Please see JayS' post on the permissions from GoK and GoI to HAL and its supply chain to operate in this COVID environment.
HAL cannot do much if its lord and master and the step mother have a different view of LCA production.


GoI and GoK can't chase 500 or 5000 vendors to ensure that HAL can deliver on time. It is up to HAL to chase vendors, GoI and GoK. If HAL would be own by you, would you sit on your back while throwing hands in the air or will you burn the mid night oil to secure the supply chain? It comes back to leadership, ownership with a sense of accountability. I hear the similar stories with our Art delivery, these are pathetic excuses.

Sorry mate. If you don't know something then a wiser course is to ask than to spout. GOI and GOK have not given permission to HAL or companies in supply chain to operate as normal. First find what the situation is before shooting from the hip!!!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby RKumar » 02 Sep 2020 18:36

ks_sachin wrote:Sorry mate. If you don't know something then a wiser course is to ask than to spout. GOI and GOK have not given permission to HAL or companies in supply chain to operate as normal. First find what the situation is before shooting from the hip!!!


Quoting everything from open source here .... Jan, July and we are in Sept

HAL on a war-footing to roll out 4 new Tejas variants in 3 months...

Anantha Krishnan M JANUARY 07, 2020 07:41 PM IST...

Currently SP-21 is undergoing various systems integration checks at the Tejas Division.
HAL says two more aircraft (SP-22 and SP-23) are already under equipping stage.


https://www.newindianexpress.com/thesun ... 65526.html

05th July 2020 06:20 AM

In an interview, Madhavan tells Ramu Patil of The New Indian Express that despite the disruption, HAL will be able to recover in the fourth quarter of 2020-21 by putting in extra efforts.

Excerpts:

What is the impact of the pandemic on HAL’s ongoing projects?

We opened up a bit earlier in April as our customers, the armed forces, wanted our services during that period at border areas.

By May first week all our divisions were open. We lost 26 lakh man-hours. But our main problem is with the supply chain.

All our vendors in the country, basically MSMEs and a few large companies, couldn’t open. In fact, many of them are not open even now and material that was to come from foreign countries, too, was a concern.

International freight has been closed.As for the demand, it will not make any impact as they are all long-term strategic requirements that are placed by the armed forces and that forms around 80 per cent of our sales.

In fact, with Atmanirbhar Bharat it will further increase.

What about the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas?

In LCA, we have five major suppliers. We have to get equipment from them. That is getting delayed. But they too are hit…everyone is hit.

Sixteen LCAs have to be delivered to the Indian Air Force (IAF) this and next financial year. We will still try to meet the requirements. We got FOC (Final Operational Clearance) in February 2019 and the first squadron was formed in Sulur within 12 months.

That was an achievement. At present, one aircraft is ready to fly out to the base and five more are on the assembly line. We are confident...but we have to see how it works.

Has the LCA manufacturing capacity been enhanced?

Once the order for 83 aircraft is placed, our manufacturing capacity will also be increased to 16 aircraft per year.

Currently, the second line set-up is almost completed and we can enhance even now. Once we get the orders, that will have a three-year lead time.

It has to be designed and developed as new systems have to be added on the aircraft. We expect the final clearance by October or December this year.

Which other projects will be impacted?

Almost all the projects will get affected. If we have to deliver aircraft next March, material should have come by this time, and we should start integration now as it has a long period on the jig and also testing lead times.

If material has not come in March, April and May, it will affect in the last quarters and even further and first quarters of the next year also.

Even now, there is a problem in getting material from abroad for Su-30 repair and overhaul, and for some equipment for Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH).

Engine material is stuck in France and other places and that will affect engine delivery, which in turn will affect my aircraft delivery.

Maharashtra is worst-hit by Covid-19. How has that affected HAL’s Nashik plant and the Su-30 MKI project?

Nashik is a contained place. Most people coming from our townships are safe. SU-30 project has come to an end as far as manufacturing is concerned.

Same assembly lines will be continued for the next orders (12 aircraft). IAF has to collect two aircraft, but since it (the plant) was closed on March 22, that could not happen.

After that it was difficult. It will happen now.
Maintenance of aircraft is increasing, depending on flying activities.

How are you managing the workforce?

Initially, we started with three shifts, and now we are working in two. Lunch time has been shifted to ensure there is no crowding.

We are also taking regular sanitization measures on the premises. It is challenging, but we are managing it.

We keep sending teams and officers to IAF units. They are sent for maintenance support, overhaul and design clearances and other tasks.

We have to ensure that they are free of Covid-19. They are airlifted from contained areas and they enter IAF bases, which are safe areas.

How is HAL supporting MSMEs?

We are paying their dues as quickly as possible and also providing material support. For them, the problem is with the labour force. Many MSMEs depend on other industries too. We have an active list of 2,000 plus MSMEs. We depend on each other.

Is there any increase in workload due to the situation on the border?

Workload continues to be the same but (our) support role has increased.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ks_sachin » 02 Sep 2020 20:30

RKumar wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Sorry mate. If you don't know something then a wiser course is to ask than to spout. GOI and GOK have not given permission to HAL or companies in supply chain to operate as normal. First find what the situation is before shooting from the hip!!!


Quoting everything from open source here .... Jan, July and we are in Sept

When did Covid hit?

Basically reiterating the challenge of Covid on the supply chain. HAl cannot be held responsible for every delay esp as even HAL was basically a closed shop till they reopened with required permissions. WHen I say closed shop I mean they would probably be doing only essential IAF support work- I am not sure.

From CHairman’s interview:
If one AC is ready to fly out to base then perhaps the IAF is not ready to receive it. After all this is going to a new SQ.
IF five AC are on assembly line then have all the sub components been received and what is the impact on the changing work patterns on the assembly lines.
Even if we go by Jan article equipping stage still requires parts from suppliers - although perhaps different parts...
Last edited by Rakesh on 03 Sep 2020 00:21, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please *STOP* quoting entire posts.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vivek K » 02 Sep 2020 23:58

Amazing - posters like RKumar are the bane of India's industrial progress. Let us say that he is correct - that HAL is broken and cannot deliver. So what then is the answer? To import 200 Rafales? Boss Indians will literally have to eat grass to accomplish that. And it is their choice if they should want to eat grass. The better solution is to look at HAL - figure out what is broken and how it can be fixed to correct the delivery process. Unless Rkumar thinks that Indians are incapable of being able to do that and deserve to eat grass.

Remember - every aircraft will have initial troubles - in production, in maintenance. Better to learn that about ourselves now than never. So cut HAL some slack.

Too often are these comparisons used to bias decision making towards imports. And those that are defending IAF's decisions, please research BRF - there is tons of research regarding step by step change of ASQRs (or GSQRs or whatever they're called). For Sarkar sahab - how come orders for 83 MK1A cannot be placed or the 15 LCH airframes that can be completed in quick time. Is there shortage of Ink?

The point that both Rkumar and with respect Tsarkar ji are missing that domestic production is key to military and economic survival unless India wants to fall by the wayside like the Soviet Union.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cyrano » 03 Sep 2020 00:13

tsarkar wrote:
amar_p wrote:Looks TFTA ;-) What is that periscope on top just aft of the cockpit canopy?

VHF/UHF Blade Antenna for communication


Not sure if you really looked at the image being referred to. Never saw this periscope shaped "blade" antenna on any other Tejas.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby RKumar » 03 Sep 2020 01:52

It is frustrating to see all local items are still in the endless trials, once they cross these trial marathons - are stuck in the manufacturing, substandard QC issues, lack of automation.

But it seems asking the hard questions based on facts are anti-national, so I enjoy chai-biscuit.

Good luck!!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ks_sachin » 03 Sep 2020 02:11

RKumar we share your pain.

The entire MIC is non existent.

Take the Insas, Arty, QC from HAL, LCH, Arjun, Indra radars etc.

Even order for 83 LCA..

However FOC prod of LCA cut HAL some slack.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 03 Sep 2020 08:48

amar_p wrote:
tsarkar wrote:VHF/UHF Blade Antenna for communication


Not sure if you really looked at the image being referred to. Never saw this periscope shaped "blade" antenna on any other Tejas.

Now that you mention it, no, I didnt see the attachment over the cockpit. The blade antenna I referred is further behind.

Image
It is there in the bird flown by ACM Bhaduria during Sq 18 resurrection. I didnt notice it in the earlier Tejas models.

Looks like this
Image

From https://utcaerospacesystems.com/wp-cont ... ensors.pdf

Model 102 Type De-iced and Aspirated

Designed for use with turbine engine take-off setting and auto throttle systems, for accuracies greater than those possible by inputs from control tower outside air temperatures. Eliminates temperature soaking inaccuracies caused by bright sunshine or hot ramp heat radiation. The addition of an air ejector (aspirator) feature, which induces airflow past the sensing element, enhances this sensor’s ability to provide reliable temperature indication during ground operation. The housing configuration conforms to MIL-P-27723E. Sensor aspirator requires 7 to 40 psig bleed air at 59°F to 212°F (15°C to 100°C) bleed air temperature


Wonder what the movie poster maker had in mind. My apologies for doubting him. I will give the poster maker credit for his eye for detail and for using the latest models as his inspiration.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby RKumar » 03 Sep 2020 23:57

Vivek K wrote:Amazing - posters like RKumar are the bane of India's industrial progress. Let us say that he is correct - that HAL is broken and cannot deliver. So what then is the answer? To import 200 Rafales? Boss Indians will literally have to eat grass to accomplish that. And it is their choice if they should want to eat grass. The better solution is to look at HAL - figure out what is broken and how it can be fixed to correct the delivery process. Unless Rkumar thinks that Indians are incapable of being able to do that and deserve to eat grass.

Remember - every aircraft will have initial troubles - in production, in maintenance. Better to learn that about ourselves now than never. So cut HAL some slack.

Too often are these comparisons used to bias decision making towards imports. And those that are defending IAF's decisions, please research BRF - there is tons of research regarding step by step change of ASQRs (or GSQRs or whatever they're called). For Sarkar sahab - how come orders for 83 MK1A cannot be placed or the 15 LCH airframes that can be completed in quick time. Is there shortage of Ink?

The point that both Rkumar and with respect Tsarkar ji are missing that domestic production is key to military and economic survival unless India wants to fall by the wayside like the Soviet Union.


Vivek, you are name calling - which is not Okay. You are comparing myself to NaPaki, which I find it insulting.

----------------------------------

Someone, might help to understand what kind of accountability and commitment it is from HAL chairman ...

That was an achievement. At present, one aircraft is ready to fly out to the base and five more are on the assembly line. We are confident...but we have to see how it works.


Or what he is saying, may be I am lacking the context here ...

Has the LCA manufacturing capacity been enhanced?

Once the order for 83 aircraft is placed, our manufacturing capacity will also be increased to 16 aircraft per year.

Currently, the second line set-up is almost completed and we can enhance even now. Once we get the orders, that will have a three-year lead time.

It has to be designed and developed as new systems have to be added on the aircraft. We expect the final clearance by October or December this year.



ks_sachin ... I pray to God that I am proven wrong, and HAL can delivery some bird before end of this year.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby vivek_ahuja » 04 Sep 2020 10:46

So from the IAF thread discussion, here is an initial list of IAF 2020s BVR missiles :

R-27 (and its variants)
R-77 AE (expired? Ukranian?)
R-77-1/ RVV-SD
Meteor
Astra Mk-1 + Mk-2
SFDR
Mica-RF
Derby

Which one of these is the LCA expected to be compatible with? Have we seen carriage trials, firings or plans for either for any/some/all of these missiles?

I am trying to understand what the IAF vision for the LCA is when it comes to BVR combat. I expect Derby, Astra (mk-1 and mk-2) to be the default BVR weapon on the LCA. SFDR when it comes, and probably Mica-RF?
Last edited by vivek_ahuja on 04 Sep 2020 10:54, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 04 Sep 2020 10:51

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Which one of these is the LCA expected to be compatible with? Have we seen carriage trials, firings or plans for either for any/some/all of these missiles?

None at the moment :D. We forgot to add the Derby to the list. That is the only BVRAAM qualified on the Tejas as of now. Astra integration is planned from what Grp Capt. HVT etc. were saying on twitter. There were also plans for buying the iDerby-ER (for both Tejas and MKI). No idea what is the status of that.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby vivek_ahuja » 04 Sep 2020 10:54

Of course, the Derby! I will edit the list above.

So many missiles in the inventory that I am losing track of them. God knows how the IAF expects to fight a war with such diverse logistics.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cain Marko » 04 Sep 2020 12:35

vivek_ahuja wrote:Of course, the Derby! I will edit the list above.

So many missiles in the inventory that I am losing track of them. God knows how the IAF expects to fight a war with such diverse logistics.

Oh sir. Don't forget the Mica IIR either... And possibly the asraam for near bvr.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ramana » 04 Sep 2020 12:50

vivek,

R-27 and Derby is qualified on Tejas.

Most likely Astra as launcher and data link are qualified on Su-30.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Sep 2020 12:53

ramana wrote:vivek,

R-27 and Derby is qualified on Tejas.

Most likely Astra as launcher and data link are qualified on Su-30.


This is news to me sir, any source, did you mean R-73?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby mody » 04 Sep 2020 16:33

Currently only R-73E and Derby are qualified for the Tejas. Astra should get qualified soon. Covid has probably delayed the whole thing.
The interesting part about the last order for 248 Astra missiles was 48 nos., being ordered for the Navy. This would suggest that the integration of Astra on Mig-29K has been completed or at least, it has been initiated. W
We should most probably be able to integrate the Astra on the upgraded M2K as well. I think that was part of the upgrade deal, that we would be able to integrate other weapons on the M2K. HAL has probably upgraded the mission computer and that would allow us to integrate the Astra on the M2K.
Will probably be the last frontline fighter to get it, as it already has the Super530D and Mica.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 05 Sep 2020 00:22

Super530D is obsolete and should be phased out with the Mirage-2000I upgrade. The upgraded ones will only carry the Mica I'm sure. I really hope Astra integration with the Tejas is done soon. The Derby is really sub-optimal in a modern BVR environment.

Also, if 48 Astras are for the Navy, it means integration with the Zhuk-ME is done or at least considered easy enough. Should bode well for the IAF Mig-29UPG which shares the radar with the 29K.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cain Marko » 05 Sep 2020 00:28

nachiket wrote:The Derby is really sub-optimal in a modern BVR environment.
.

To be fair, how is derby any less optimal than the RF Mica, which is upgraded m2k's only bvr shot? The m2k is also a prime candidate for the astra think.

Also, any news on the derby er? For both tejas and mki?

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 05 Sep 2020 00:43

Cain Marko wrote:
nachiket wrote:The Derby is really sub-optimal in a modern BVR environment.
.

To be fair, how is derby any less optimal than the RF Mica, which is upgraded m2k's only bvr shot? The m2k is also a prime candidate for the astra think.

Also, any news on the derby er? For both tejas and mki?

The range I have seen quoted for the baseline Derby is 50km which I assume is the max head-on engagement range. This is less than both the Mica and the R-77 and far less than the Astra.

With M2k and Astra there are other issues to consider. The M2k carries 4 Mica's on its fuselage HP's. So the Astra will need an ejector-launcher. Right now it only has a rail launcher. MKI also has the same issue with its 4 fuselage HP's but at least it has six under-wing HP's also available for the Astra. The M2k will be carrying 2 drop tanks on 2 of its 4 wing HP's. HVT sir said on Twitter that an ejector launcher for the Astra was planned but not sure when it will be available.

Secondly, the Astra is longer than the Mica. I don't know if that might interfere with the landing gear doors etc. on the M2k when carried under the fuselage. Hopefully not but I haven't checked.

And of course integrating the Astra with the RDY radar will need French cooperation.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Philip » 05 Sep 2020 04:17

The Derby may be qualified,but if I remember correctly,there were severe comments made about its performance on the Sea Harrier,failing to meet its specified range,etc. by the CAG some time ago. Perhaps an ER version has since then been acquired with better petformance.

The LCA production lines in HAL will require a miracle to improve.First it should ramp up production to 16 to clear an order for a bird at least a decade late in service instead of saying,give us the order and then we'll do it..
Unless another line in the pvt. sector,or pvt. sector management of the project assists HAL ,eventhe 80+ order will find the going tough for the Mk-1 A. Its success is critical to the Mk-2,AMCA,etc.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 05 Sep 2020 12:00

Nobody is born brilliant, a baby first lies on its back, turns, then drags its body, crawls, walks with support, walks and only then learns to run and climb. Our production eco system needs to go through a similar learning curve, as there are more infrastructure and people, money involved in producing Aircraft in India it will pick up. The life blood is orders and some risk taking and willingness to accept some losses.

But this will hit the livelyhoods of a lot of commission making people across the system within India who want setlle abroad later in life with thier children along with good lifestyles- these folks will do everything to sabotage.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Philip » 07 Sep 2020 07:49

I think that the LCA prog. cleared the hill a few years ago when the IAF got involved earnestly, realising that the gravy days of western firang imports were over.Still,substantial firang components from engines to radars,etc. are found not just in desi aircraft progs. but in MBTs,warships too! The production rate of LCAs and strict cost control is the need of the hour.At least 180 Mk-1/1As must be built at max. speed.Even a 3rd. line in the pvt. sector or at HAL would help accelerate prod. and induction into the IAF.By 2025,all 120 Bisons too will be pensioned off,even earlier with the enhanced ops. going on right now.3X12 per line would give 36/ yr. which would be a great achievement .


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