Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby tsarkar » 07 Sep 2020 10:50

nachiket wrote:The range I have seen quoted for the baseline Derby is 50km which I assume is the max head-on engagement range. This is less than both the Mica and the R-77 and far less than the Astra.

Most comparisons on this forum focus on range. Range is not a benchmark for missile performance. The maneuverability and Probability of Kill at range also matters. Both MICA and Derby score better on the latter counts. Any pilot will chose a missile with better Pk than raw range.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 07 Sep 2020 10:56

Tsarkar-> in this case I disagree, the Derby was never really required by the IsAF, it was for export markets, it was developed from the Python IV, removing fins and with a Radar seeker. The Israelis always had access to latest Sparrows and Amraams, they developed Python III/IV/V etc. initailly since till early 70's they did not have AIm-9 series missiles and till the AIm-9X came along the Aim-9L and AIm9M lacked a bit compared to the R-73's.

https://www.flightglobal.com/rafael-unveils-open-secret-derby-missile-a-decade-late/37255.article


The missile is the standard radar-guided weapon on Israel's Lockheed Martin F-16s and is carried on the same pylon as Rafael's Python 4 imaging infrared guided dogfight missile. Derby was developed in the 1980s, says Rafael, and has been in service for 10 years.



Derby is 3.6m (11.8ft) long, has a diameter of 160mm, the same as Python 4, and weighs 118kg (260lb). The missile is slightly narrower and lighter than AMRAAM, but about the same length.


Plus being 80's vintage, I am sure propellant tech has also moved on, it is as best a stop gap measure, what Tejas needs is Astra integration and orders for Astra in numbers which in turn are produced fast. Till then the Tejas in A2A will be more or less relegated to Mig-21 Bison role although they will perform it much better.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cain Marko » 08 Sep 2020 02:41

nachiket wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:To be fair, how is derby any less optimal than the RF Mica, which is upgraded m2k's only bvr shot? The m2k is also a prime candidate for the astra think.

Also, any news on the derby er? For both tejas and mki?

The range I have seen quoted for the baseline Derby is 50km which I assume is the max head-on engagement range. This is less than both the Mica and the R-77 and far less than the Astra.

With M2k and Astra there are other issues to consider. The M2k carries 4 Mica's on its fuselage HP's. So the Astra will need an ejector-launcher. Right now it only has a rail launcher. MKI also has the same issue with its 4 fuselage HP's but at least it has six under-wing HP's also available for the Astra. The M2k will be carrying 2 drop tanks on 2 of its 4 wing HP's. HVT sir said on Twitter that an ejector launcher for the Astra was planned but not sure when it will be available.

Secondly, the Astra is longer than the Mica. I don't know if that might interfere with the landing gear doors etc. on the M2k when carried under the fuselage. Hopefully not but I haven't checked.

And of course integrating the Astra with the RDY radar will need French cooperation.

Thanks for the info on the astra and m2k. I see that there work to be done there.

Wrt Mica and derby, I believe ranges should be very similar. The dimensions are almost exact.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ashishvikas » 10 Sep 2020 21:47

Air Display by Tejas aircraft during #RafaleInduction ceremony at #Ambala airbase.

https://twitter.com/DDNewslive/status/1 ... 08800?s=19

https://youtu.be/RQIK3DbgbBs

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby sivab » 11 Sep 2020 09:05



At 1:04:00 announcer says the thrust of engine is 9t (88kN).

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Roop » 11 Sep 2020 09:12

sivab wrote:At 1:04:00 announcer says the thrust of engine is 9t (88kN).


I believe he was referring to Tejas there.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Raghunathgb » 11 Sep 2020 09:19

The commentator mentioned Tejas can fly as low as 120 knots speed.It betters rafale record by 10 knots(rafale is 130 knots).

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby sivab » 11 Sep 2020 09:29

Roop wrote:
sivab wrote:At 1:04:00 announcer says the thrust of engine is 9t (88kN).


I believe he was referring to Tejas there.


That is the point of posting it in this thread. It is a Tejas flying. This is new classified info. Public spec is 84kN.

https://www.geaviation.com/sites/defaul ... Family.pdf

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby sankum » 11 Sep 2020 11:33

See the Tejas mk1 spec in first page of this thread. It is already there.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby mody » 11 Sep 2020 15:46

Raghunathgb wrote:The commentator mentioned Tejas can fly as low as 120 knots speed.It betters rafale record by 10 knots(rafale is 130 knots).


I believe the Rafale can do better than 130 knots and also the Tejas can do lower than 120 knots!! Indranil might have the latest figures.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Raghunathgb » 11 Sep 2020 16:46

mody wrote:
Raghunathgb wrote:The commentator mentioned Tejas can fly as low as 120 knots speed.It betters rafale record by 10 knots(rafale is 130 knots).


I believe the Rafale can do better than 130 knots and also the Tejas can do lower than 120 knots!! Indranil might have the latest figures.


I remember indranil quoting 100 knots for Tejas. In anyways Tejas should outdo rafale in this particular aspect.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby fanne » 11 Sep 2020 18:58

Roop wrote:
sivab wrote:At 1:04:00 announcer says the thrust of engine is 9t (88kN).

I believe he was referring to Tejas there.



My interpretation - It is still 84KN, the announcer just rounded up and said 9T, instead of 8T or 8.xx ton. You don't say somebody is 1.33 billionaire, simply he is a billionaire, and that does not mean he has exactly a billion in money

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 12 Sep 2020 23:00

Raghunathgb wrote:
mody wrote:
I believe the Rafale can do better than 130 knots and also the Tejas can do lower than 120 knots!! Indranil might have the latest figures.


I remember indranil quoting 100 knots for Tejas. In anyways Tejas should outdo rafale in this particular aspect.

Yes, Rafale can do much better. Hearsay is 85-90 knots. F-18s can do about 95-100 knots. Tejas TPs have flown the Tejas to 107 knots. It is FCS limited to 115 knots. In this respect the Tejas is similar to the Mirage 2000, but the former has slow speed auto recovery capability.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby KSingh » 13 Sep 2020 00:31

Rafale and LCA did solo displays- future of the IAF

Can’t deny how high energy that Rafale display was, haven’t seen anything close to that from any other IAF display


+ can anyone give any updates on LCA SP production? 6 months since the last one was flown (SP-17) and I don’t believe she’s ever been handed over to the IAF. I understand COVID production delays but 6 months is a horrendously long time, that’s half the FY gone, looking like they’ll be fortunate to hand over 4 SPs this FY, 2020 is looking like a total write off for the LCA, Airbus and Boeing have been delivering new orders for the last 3 months.


Don’t mean to be a doubter just a realist. Every negative will used down the line agaisnt HAL/ADA/DRDO to justify more needless imports

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vips » 13 Sep 2020 05:38

While there may be genuine difficulties, for HAL not to be able to get its act together after 2-3 months of Covid downtime while disappointing is indeed not uncommon. Look at their track record, each and every project even where they have been doing the same things over multiple years is always beyond their promised time lines. Covid excuse is a god sent for them. What happened of the IJT Spin Trials that was supposed to be done 2 months back? There is no excuse here of some supply chain issue or "some parts" not being available that is holding back HAL.

Why take Boeing or Airbus as examples during these Covid times the Indian Railway Productions units have been delivering record number of locomotives and coaches even while incorporating many changes and improvements in them.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby raghuk » 13 Sep 2020 09:19

Vips wrote:While there may be genuine difficulties, for HAL not to be able to get its act together after 2-3 months of Covid downtime while disappointing is indeed not uncommon. Look at their track record, each and every project even where they have been doing the same things over multiple years is always beyond their promised time lines. Covid excuse is a god sent for them. What happened of the IJT Spin Trials that was supposed to be done 2 months back? There is no excuse here of some supply chain issue or "some parts" not being available that is holding back HAL.

Why take Boeing or Airbus as examples during these Covid times the Indian Railway Productions units have been delivering record number of locomotives and coaches even while incorporating many changes and improvements in them.

IJT has developmental challenges, while the LCA is a production aircraft. They are two completely different things which cannot be compared.

If you want to gauge us by our production track record, look at the ALH deliveries which have almost always been ahead of schedule. Also, the LCA has extensive private sector involvement and it is therefore dependent on constraints from the suppliers side as well. Usually most of the deliveries happen close to the end of the financial year, so please hold your judgement for a while.
Cheers!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Indranil » 13 Sep 2020 11:03

One thing I will add is the following. Tejas IOC to FOC to Mk1A to Mk2 is seeing and will contjnue to see more and more outsourcing from HAL. Many of these players are making such large aerostructures for the first time. HAL is also learning on how to lay down specifiations for parts that can be readily assembled back together.

This is the next evolutionary step of our aviation industry complex. FOC aircraft were facing some butting issues. I don't know if they have been resolved already. But as soon as it is done, expect mk1s to come out of the assembly lines in a hurry.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Mort Walker » 13 Sep 2020 19:03

Indranil wrote:One thing I will add is the following. Tejas IOC to FOC to Mk1A to Mk2 is seeing and will contjnue to see more and more outsourcing from HAL. Many of these players are making such large aerostructures for the first time. HAL is also learning on how to lay down specifiations for parts that can be readily assembled back together.

This is the next evolutionary step of our aviation industry complex. FOC aircraft were facing some butting issues. I don't know if they have been resolved already. But as soon as it is done, expect mk1s to come out of the assembly lines in a hurry.


The investment into manufacturing has to be made by privatizing a production line AND more money into HAL's capacity. It will take a few billion $$$, but it is an investment into complex manufacturing within country. Indian politicians have not yet learned that funding domestic defense capability increases jobs and a complex manufacturing base.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 16 Sep 2020 22:35

More DASH-IV helmets arriving for LCA Tejas flyers, IAF trialing head gears for Jaguar pilots
https://www.spansen.com/2020/08/more-da ... ilots.html
28 August 2020

Image


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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 17 Sep 2020 10:22

OH MY GOODNESS!!!!

What a picture!!!

Trust Ashish Saar to find this gem!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby KSingh » 17 Sep 2020 18:54

Rakesh wrote:More DASH-IV helmets arriving for LCA Tejas flyers, IAF trialing head gears for Jaguar pilots
https://www.spansen.com/2020/08/more-da ... ilots.html
28 August 2020

Must be for the MK1 IOC+FOC jets, ive noticed they aren’t being flown with HMDS by operational units a while back

Such orders should’ve been made prior to inductions taking place like any other defence deal where they buy the product and the support package as one. This kind of piecemeal ad-hoc approach is rather alarming. God knows what other corners the services are cutting where it concerns IDDM deals
Last edited by Rakesh on 17 Sep 2020 22:58, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Post edited to remove picture

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ManuJ » 18 Sep 2020 05:50

Wow! What a photograph. The symmetry and the angle!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby SaiK » 20 Sep 2020 15:41

F21 killer
:rotfl:

Say Goodbye To India’s Super F-16
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... -f-16/amp/

Sweet -
“The IAF is saying, I would rather take the indigenous fighter, it is good,” Rawat said.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby jamwal » 20 Sep 2020 17:50

Say Goodbye To India’s Super F-16
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2 ... -f-16/amp/

Hindustan Aeronautics’ Tejas, which first flew in 2001, is far less sophisticated than the F-21 would have been (Comparing a plane in service with a vapourware). The delta-wing, lightweight LCA can carry around 8,000 pounds of ordnance—half what an Indian Su-30MKI can haul. .(In next sentence, comparison with another plane which is twice it's size, initial cost and running expenses) The Tejas also is slower and less maneuverable than India’s other foreign-made fighters are (Less maneuverable than what, Jaguar, Mig-21? :roll: ) .

The F-21, by contrast, would have included technology from the company’s F-22 and F-35 stealth fighters. :roll: “The F-21 has common components and learning from Lockheed Martin’s fifth-generation F-22 and F-35 and will share a common supply chain on a variety of components,” (so what?) Lockheed stated on its website on the morning of Feb. 20, 2019.


There are fools who will just read these random points and start vidhwa vilaap over them without understanding the details. White man and their agents doing their best to run down Indian work.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Dileep » 20 Sep 2020 20:03

LM (and Tata JV and the Tier 1s) had been working with desi suppliers for the past few years. To be brutally honest, it would have brought all of us pvt entities to the next level of being aerospace suppliers. My jingo side is happy that it is scrapped. But my technocrat side is not sharing that feeling.

Our current supplier ecosystem is still a couple of decades behind the curve in the system and processes. It works. We build a safe and performing plane. But that is it!. We are no way at the level to play in the international level. I have seen a few facilities that actually build the things that currently fly in our sky, and I will bet that the L3Harrises and Raytheons of the world will not even enter their plant.

For the offset programmes, we are still making mostly "machined parts" (low hanging, low risk fruit for both supplier and customer. Get the right material and machine, load the given CNC code and let the machine take care of things) and such simple things. F21 program was offering a lot more. Way lot more, that it would have taken us considerable time and effort just to take what was being offered.

Though in late 80s we were making cars that were not too backward technically, it took a Maruti to kick out auto industry to the global level. Having a programme with serious indigenization proposals would definitely help the aero industry for sure.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby darshan » 20 Sep 2020 21:10

You are right. There's a reason why chinese were stealing unclassified MIC culture through various means. Lesson learned and rectified processes aren't easy to come by. commercial chini companies always over did their plants to grab as much knowledge as possible for dual purpose. Tons of former US MIC people had joined commercial ventures in last two decades and chinese capitalized big time. Even just simple things like mass producing RF cables/components to anechoic foam to RF assemblies can bring in lot of knowledge. Items like cable assemblies and connectors aren't even that environmental sensitive as chip foundries.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby darshan » 20 Sep 2020 21:51

There's still lot that can be learned by being hub for many components without buying a fighter. Lot of that requires MIC and non MIC joints going. Getting anything specific to a weapon system won't be fully utilized till having many low level suppliers that can build components with turn the knob culture and that too with high reliability, yield, multi shift trained workforce, calibration depots, etc. Now days there are many venues for sustaining suppliers from commercial side manufacturing that is yesterday's or today's MIC components like. Going off topic but there's no reason why there couldn't be any small entities like Ubiquiti or mikrotik or firewall appliance companies in India. Same goes for companies based on iot widgets and related ecosystem.

Actually many standards and guidelines are available online from MIL STD, NIST, etc. to start having requirements being rolled out. This is where other part of the weapon system comes in where Indian citizen are being betrayed by military and bureaucracy blaming each other instead of serving Indian citizens. Absolutely no reason for a local weapon meeting safety requirements not being utilized to start getting supply chain rolling. Batch ordering and dialing in of feedback is all being ignored along with enemy having to account for even half functional weapon system being out there with logistical and supply chain behind it. More and more people need to be talking about this to get it on election manifestos that national security comes with local manufacturing.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Dileep » 20 Sep 2020 22:05

Buying the plane is the 'give' for the 'take' of technology. They come to us to sell the plane, not to buy parts.

The 'technology' I am talking about is not the "ToT" in the normal parlance. It is not anything with the wonderful technical things that make the gizmos tick. It is the simply 'know-how' of doing things that got accumulated over long periods and through multiple programmes. Those are not ITAR controlled. Those are not protected by patents / trade secrets. Those are not even considered valuable by the sources, since they take it for granted. But for us, those are of great value.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Philip » 21 Sep 2020 02:46

Provided HAL gets its act together,the LCA could rather belatedly though,prove to be the replacement for our MIG-21s/23s/27s as was originally hoped for. It will also reduce the no. of types in service,a great boon to the IAF, which probably contests the world record for no. of types in service. Another firang type would probably be another millstone round the IAF's neck. ASS ( After sales service,aptly named) ,has been a major problem for the IAF .
Even though a goodly % of the LCA is firang, it will be far easier to support with an established local supply chain for the same. With a commonality of air combat and strike weaponry being planned for all combat aircraft types in service the MK-1A built in large nos. both by HAL and in the pvt. sector too,could be essential to neutralising the threat on our western border especially, having capability as well as quantity.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ashishvikas » 22 Sep 2020 09:33

HAL readies Tejas SP-22 & SP-23 fighters for first flights

-Anantha Krishnan M
Two fighters from the Tejas Final Operational Clearance (FOC) block - SP-22 & SP-23 - are likely to take to the skies in the coming days, signalling the resumption of flight activities that were halted for a while.

An official from Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) told Onmanorama that the flight trials of these two fighters will be completed by the end of this month.

The low and high speed taxi trials of both fighters have been completed. The LCA-Tejas Division of HAL is currently finishing the activities ahead of their first flights. SP-23 is manufactured by HAL’s Aircraft Division.


“The FOC variants getting ready for delivery/flight are loaded with updated software to meet the operational requirements of Indian Air Force (IAF). The production rate has been enhanced at LCA and Aircraft Divisions. Structural work are in advanced stages,” the official told Onmanorama.

HAL hopes that by the end of this production year, the fuselages of the remaining FOC fighters will be loaded on to their respective jigs.

An IAF official overseeing the Tejas production activities told Onmanorama that to void further delays, HAL has been told to ensure similar build-standards for all FOC variants, especially SP-21, SP-22 and SP-23, to start with.

“This would meet our operational and maintenance requirements," the top official said.

A team consisting of representatives from IAF, HAL, Aeronautical Development Agency, Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification, Regional Centre for Military Airworthiness and Regional Director Aeronautical Quality Assurance is looking into all aspects of the FOC variants, ahead of clearing them for flights.

Production Rate

HAL is working towards delivering the FOC aircraft to IAF without having any pending concessions. Production rate is expected to be enhanced, once the vendors start delivering major assemblies.

“With the lessons from the production of 16 IOC (Initial Operational Clearance) fighters, lots of improvements have been made during the initial build of the FOC structures,” the official said.

SP-21, the first Tejas FOC fighter that flew in March this year was produced by HAL in a record time of 12 months, post release of the documents.

The aircraft was subsequently delivered to the IAF in May and is currently undergoing software upgrade and post-delivery checks. It is expected to be with IAF Squadron by the end of this month.

HAL has put in reinforced efforts to meet the demands of IAF with the manufacturing of detail parts of all FOC fighters almost completed.

“Now the focus is on the completion of structural build of aircraft which are planned to be produced during this financial year. The first three aircraft are in advanced stage of delivery and another three (SP-24, SP-25, SP-26) are in various stages of equipping,” the official added.

Pandemic Pause

The COVID-19 lockdown and associated delays too have dented the production plans of HAL.

“The pandemic has affected our plans and even hit some of the supply chain logistics. But, we never took shelter under these excuses and have provided uninterrupted support to IAF, even during complete lockdown period. We deputed multiple teams to support Tejas fleet and are further improving the serviceability through reducing the turnaround time and ensuring spare stocks in surplus,” the official added.

COVD-19 has impacted the supply chain, slowing down some of the production activities considerably. HAL is now gearing up to meet the FY targets through innovations such as flexible time approach and dynamically balancing the production lines.

“We are planning to maximise the deliveries despite the lockdown-induced slowdown in supply chain. The target is to produce eight aircraft by end of this FY and this could be enhanced if the supplies from our business partners improve,” the official added.

On the measures being put in place to improve the supply chain management, the official said efforts are on to bring back normalcy.

“The foreign supply chain is the worst hit. Since LCA-Tejas Division follows the integrator model, any supply chain disruption will bring in risk for timelines. We are working closely with our partners to tide over the current situation. We are supporting them financially and technically to come out of current situation. We have given relief to our business partners for the delay caused due to COVID-19-related lockdown,” the official added.

Meanwhile, detail part manufacturing work is currently underway for manufacturing of eight Tejas FOC trainer aircraft. The jigs are being calibrated for structural assembly and if HAL sticks to the current plan, the first trainer will fly out by end of next year.


https://www.onmanorama.com/news/nation/ ... ssion=true

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby sankum » 22 Sep 2020 11:02

^^^
Plan
FY 20-21:- SP 21 to SP 28 - 8 nos
FY 21-22:- SP 29 to SP 36 - 8 nos
Trainers from December 2021 onwards - 18 nos

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Sep 2020 11:26

So single seat Mk1A's from ? 2024-25? Problem is not just HAl, for the well oiled French are delivering 10 rafales in 20-21 for order in April-15.

The entire GOI and Indian industry has been lacking, we need to get our production infrastructure in place away from Dalali NGO-Commission gravy train.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby ashishvikas » 22 Sep 2020 13:16

^^ From where you get 24-25 for Mk1A ?

Trainers would be manufactured in a new line as per reports from Sandeep.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby chola » 22 Sep 2020 13:47

ashishvikas wrote:HAL readies Tejas SP-22 & SP-23 fighters for first flights

-Anantha Krishnan M

The foreign supply chain is the worst hit. Since LCA-Tejas Division follows the integrator model, any supply chain disruption will bring in risk for timelines. We are working closely with our partners to tide over the current situation. We are supporting them financially and technically to come out of current situation. We have given relief to our business partners for the delay caused due to COVID-19-related lockdown,” the official added.



https://www.onmanorama.com/news/nation/ ... ssion=true


That hits like f-ing ton of bricks. It must change. We've been working on the LCA since 1980s. Four decades of indigenization cannot leave the plane still hostage to a phoren supply chain.

We are giving them financial relief? Who is giving Indian aerospace suppliers financial and technical relief? Sticks in my goddam craw.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Sep 2020 14:34

ashishvikas wrote:^^ From where you get 24-25 for Mk1A ?

Trainers would be manufactured in a new line as per reports from Sandeep.


If 8 FOC Single seaters in 2020-21
8 FOC Single seaters 2021-22
then logically 18 FOC trainers will occupy HAl in 2022-23 and FY 2023-24, so single seat MK1A will start from 2024-25 onwards, no wonder HAL-IAF are comfortable in signing the contract by end of CY 20 or end of FY20-21.

Quite frankly one feels there is not enough effort to increase production getting the LCA- Mk2/MEF, TEDBF 2 engine and AMCA prototypes out.

There is no visible effort to increase production to 16-24 or even 32 aircraft which logically the nation requires.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby csaurabh » 22 Sep 2020 15:06

chola wrote:
That hits like f-ing ton of bricks. It must change. We've been working on the LCA since 1980s. Four decades of indigenization cannot leave the plane still hostage to a phoren supply chain.

We are giving them financial relief? Who is giving Indian aerospace suppliers financial and technical relief? Sticks in my goddam craw.


I have said it again in many threads.
Our indigenization is only skin deep. We have not developed the deep technology. In many industries we have not even taken the first step.
We still mainly just assemble stuff and do basic operations. Plus brain drain.

Edit: What is wrong in giving Indian aerospace suppliers financial relief? Its a low margin business, they need it to survive.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby chola » 22 Sep 2020 15:12

^^^ Nothing is wrong with giving Indian aerospace suppliers financial relief. In fact it is a necessity to build up the local eco-system. The article made it sound like we are giving foreign suppliers financial relief!

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby hemant_sai » 22 Sep 2020 15:15

Aditya_V wrote:
ashishvikas wrote:^^ From where you get 24-25 for Mk1A ?

Trainers would be manufactured in a new line as per reports from Sandeep.


If 8 FOC Single seaters in 2020-21
8 FOC Single seaters 2021-22
then logically 18 FOC trainers will occupy HAl in 2022-23 and FY 2023-24, so single seat MK1A will start from 2024-25 onwards, no wonder HAL-IAF are comfortable in signing the contract by end of CY 20 or end of FY20-21. .....


If Trainers are going to be built on separate line altogether, how it is going to impact start of MK1A ?

MK1A will have current tejas lines available by Mid-22 so by Mid or late 23 we must see 1st Mk1A delivered provided,
1] Order is placed in this year 2020
2] All necessary prototyping or validations of Mk1A systems are completed before Mid-2022

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kartik » 22 Sep 2020 15:29

hemant_sai wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:
If 8 FOC Single seaters in 2020-21
8 FOC Single seaters 2021-22
then logically 18 FOC trainers will occupy HAl in 2022-23 and FY 2023-24, so single seat MK1A will start from 2024-25 onwards, no wonder HAL-IAF are comfortable in signing the contract by end of CY 20 or end of FY20-21. .....


If Trainers are going to be built on separate line altogether, how it is going to impact start of MK1A ?

MK1A will have current tejas lines available by Mid-22 so by Mid or late 23 we must see 1st Mk1A delivered provided,
1] Order is placed in this year 2020
2] All necessary prototyping or validations of Mk1A systems are completed before Mid-2022


It shouldn't impact the start of Mk1A deliveries. the Trainers as you mentioned will come off a separate assembly line, and only 8 are on order as yet, 10 trainers will come from the 83 Mk1A order.

After delivering those, that line should also transition to being a Mk1A production line.


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