Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

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Cain Marko
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Jul 2019 04:47

fanne wrote:AF-31- I have no doubt that the plane will need to grow in size (in fact bigger than MWF, which may not be a bad thing, we get a multi-role entry level fighter that is no longer a poor man choice in the line of GNAT, Mig 21 and LCA, forever restricted on range) - and thus be costlier etc. (and some bases e.g. Srinagar and Awantipur infra have to be expanded to accommodate these). At that point, while we continue with overall engine development, a la Kaveri, we should own AL-31 and produce 100% of it inhouse (with RU help if possible, without there help or in spite of their help). We are at x% already there (50% to 80% depending on what media report you want to believe).
I am not advocating (like Philips may) moving LCA with AL-31. The current path with 404/414 is the best. But should sanction come in play, there is a way out.

Well, I'm not entirely sure. The MWF and mirage 2000 will have very similar empty weights and possibly dimensions as well. Now consider that the mirage had an engine - M53, almost the same weight and length as the al31, and we see that things might not be so out of the realm of possibility.

The MWF is going to need drastic changes compared to the current mk1. And will take an easy 10 years. I don't see why they should be limited to the f414.

Even worse, the 414 will not result in a much better twr than the mk1 considering the increase in weight. Especially when they add on another ton for the naval version. So all in all, we are likely to see the underpowered issue to rear it's ugly head again especially if there are nefarious powers in decision making circles that want to scuttle Desi efforts, as BRFites often suggest.

Going with a larger Al 31 type engine mitigates all these issues including CAATSA related shit.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby nachiket » 12 Jul 2019 05:00

Why are we discussing MWF here when we have a separate thread for the same?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7689&start=200

Please move the discussion there. This thread is for Mk1 and 1A discussions only.

LakshmanPST
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby LakshmanPST » 12 Jul 2019 09:56

Noob question:-
If US puts sanctions on 404/414 in future, and assuming Kaveri is not ready, do we have an alternative to this engine from any other Manufacturer...?

Cain Marko
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Jul 2019 10:22

LakshmanPST wrote:Noob question:-
If US puts sanctions on 404/414 in future, and assuming Kaveri is not ready, do we have an alternative to this engine from any other Manufacturer...?

The EJ 200 was the original competitor to the 414. But one hopes that a Kaveri comes through soon enough. Possibly through the Snecma tie up. Although hope is not exactly the best strategy. Hence the AL 31 tangent above...

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Kakarat » 12 Jul 2019 11:26

Look at the patch Vice Chief of the Air Staff, Air Marshal RKS Bhadauria is wearing during his visit to France for flying the Rafale

Image

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Khalsa » 12 Jul 2019 17:25

Till the Carrot of MMRCA 2.0 remains aloft , no CATSA and no tap OFF for the GE Engines.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Vips » 12 Jul 2019 18:49

LakshmanPST wrote:Noob question:-
If US puts sanctions on 404/414 in future, and assuming Kaveri is not ready, do we have an alternative to this engine from any other Manufacturer...?


Uncle Sam would be shooting himself in the foot as any plan it has of making India move away to US military wares will be done with. At the worst, India will always have the option of Kaveri with the M88 Core to fall back on.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cybaru » 12 Jul 2019 22:30

Kaveri with M88 core is what we should be testing away if GTRE engine isnt going to make it. It is time to do something.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby SaiK » 14 Jul 2019 08:09

if GTRE has not been on the lines of ISRO, please understand they are already bought out by firangies. Impossible that we allow.. means deep-state is already in action. They will ensure Kaveri will fail, and GTRE will remain the same.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby dinesh_kimar » 14 Jul 2019 09:38

^ Saar, in previous posts in Kaveri thread, I had given testing info as per MIL -500E spec (aero engine test). They had completed a 150 h endurance test, which was qualified by SNECMA. Next was flight tests.

The then SAs of DRDO had talked abt flight testing by 2017, subsequent 2019 on an LCA after pre flight trails of abt 100h.

Ramana Sir's post abt stopping testing under US pressure as part of a deal for supply of something else (FBW components, F 404 engines?) Seems to be happening. Can't be any other explanation.

India should assume aero engine sanctions and test in closed door labs, in secret, like ISRO and missiles.

kit
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby kit » 14 Jul 2019 16:12

A bit of history..

" New Soviet airframe designs from their design bureaus, and near-sonic wing designs were threatening to outstrip development of the jet engines needed to power them. Soviet aviation minister Mikhail Khrunichevand aircraft designer Alexander Sergeyevich Yakovlev suggested to Joseph Stalin that the USSR buy advanced jet engines from the British. Stalin is said to have replied: "What fool will sell us his secrets?"[5]However, he gave his assent to the proposal, and Artem Mikoyan, engine designer Klimov, and other officials traveled to the United Kingdom to request the engines. To Stalin's amazement, the British Labour government and its pro-Soviet Minister of Trade, Sir Stafford Cripps were willing to provide technical information and a licence to manufacture the Rolls-Royce Nene centrifugal-flow jet engine. This engine was reverse-engineered and produced in modified form as the Soviet Klimov VK-1 jet engine, later incorporated into the MiG-15(Rolls-Royce later attempted to claim £207 millions in licence fees, without success) "

Cain Marko
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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Jul 2019 06:02

^ The problem, as I understand, is not that India can't build a workable turbojet equivalent to what was being done in the 50s and 60s. The problem is with the more advanced metallurgy needed to get top end turbofans to work. Even so, they managed about 7.5 tons AB thrust on the kaveri. It bugs me that this engine was not used for a twin engined MRCA type. A Rafale clone should have been attempted, and possibly at least an advanced MiG 29/F-18 could have resulted.

The MWF or AMCA 1.0 should have been a twin engined bird running on skinny Kaveri with 7.5 tons thrust. The weak engine would have been compensated by the twin design and we would have had a totally local, high powered MRCA suitable for naval ops even. This pursuit of a single engined design could prove to be a damn costly mistake.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Bharadwaj » 17 Jul 2019 18:58

http://zeenews.india.com/india/hal-bols ... 19840.html

According to Minister of State, Defence, Shripad Naik the task of integrating Brahmos supersonic cruise missile on IAF Su-30 MKI "will also be a gainful utilisation of HAL's skilled manpower" while the manufacturing capacity for the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) has been ramped up from eight planes to 16 per year. Naik pointed out that the Narendra Modi government has prioritised the two projects - 83 Tejas LCA-MK1A and 15 Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) for finalisation for which Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) has already given approval.

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Re: Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A: News & Discussions: 23 February 2019

Postby Rakesh » 19 Jul 2019 03:55

HAL Doubles LCA Tejas Production Capacity, Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Repair And Overhaul Capability Enhanced
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/hal-doubl ... y-enhanced

Replying to a question in the Lok Sabha, Minister of State for Defence, Shripad Naik has informed that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has doubled its manufacturing capability of the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft from 8 to 16 per annum. Production of 83 Tejas LCA-MK1A and 15 Light Combat Helicopters (LCH) has been prioritised by the NDA government at the Centre, he said.


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