Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Prashanth_R
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Prashanth_R » 28 Feb 2019 07:01

Rohit_K wrote:Pardon my ignorance and apologies if already debunked.

Was there a second captured IAF pilot? In this pic someone in the back has their hands in the air.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0ZhUBqWsAApHWR.jpg

People just raised their hand and shouting that all, 2 more raised their hands if you see clearly

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Feb 2019 07:06

Paki going HOWZAT! If not don't u think they would have tom-tommed the fact? Or maybe they arrested the Paki who stole the WingCdr's wallet w/o paying baksheesh.

BTW, here is the list of UBCN WAG achievements. The One and Only source for In-depth
See the MiG21 beats F16 confirmation)? Hain? (and someone asks: How do I know? Ha! Like v reveal our sources?)
Other achievements:
1. Accurate prediction, down to the half-hour, of Indian strike. (WAG said Indians came - at 3AM, it was 3:38 in fact)
2. Accurate prediction of PAF reaction:
a) PAF 2-B Air Chief Marshal Bandar Khan sat on the tarmac revving up his engines, (c Baki Twitter posts confirming that they sat on tarmac Angrily Turning Missile Radar On And Off) while
b) his comrades put on max a/b WESTwards when they saw an Indian trainer plane older than all their grandfathers. And got shot in the musharraf.
c) This is why Ft. Lt. Bandar Khan becomes Nishaan-e-Pakistan ACM Bandar Khan.
3. First to post the clinching picture of the MiG-21 intake that finished off all the "Su-30" dhoti-shivers and Pakclaims.

(Pls kindly do not ban me, just posting the analysis).

BTW, what exactly is in Vishnu Som F-16 picture #1? I can't see a single piece of anything that isn't a stone. All the slivers of flat surfaces are airplane parts? Just asking out of ignorance. The other pic seems to have one rectangular piece of something.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Raveen » 28 Feb 2019 08:03

UlanBatori wrote:Paki going HOWZAT! If not don't u think they would have tom-tommed the fact? Or maybe they arrested the Paki who stole the WingCdr's wallet w/o paying baksheesh.

BTW, here is the list of UBCN WAG achievements. The One and Only source for In-depth
See the MiG21 beats F16 confirmation)? Hain? (and someone asks: How do I know? Ha! Like v reveal our sources?)
Other achievements:
1. Accurate prediction, down to the half-hour, of Indian strike. (WAG said Indians came - at 3AM, it was 3:38 in fact)
2. Accurate prediction of PAF reaction:
a) PAF 2-B Air Chief Marshal Bandar Khan sat on the tarmac revving up his engines, (c Baki Twitter posts confirming that they sat on tarmac Angrily Turning Missile Radar On And Off) while
b) his comrades put on max a/b WESTwards when they saw an Indian trainer plane older than all their grandfathers. And got shot in the musharraf.
c) This is why Ft. Lt. Bandar Khan becomes Nishaan-e-Pakistan ACM Bandar Khan.
3. First to post the clinching picture of the MiG-21 intake that finished off all the "Su-30" dhoti-shivers and Pakclaims.

(Pls kindly do not ban me, just posting the analysis).

BTW, what exactly is in Vishnu Som F-16 picture #1? I can't see a single piece of anything that isn't a stone. All the slivers of flat surfaces are airplane parts? Just asking out of ignorance. The other pic seems to have one rectangular piece of something.


Read this twice today in two threads and it's not getting any funnier

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Karan M » 28 Feb 2019 08:07

UB, even I couldn't figure out much in Soms pic. Since you couldnt either, I can now rest easy that I didnt miss something glaringly obvious. It doesnt seem to show anything much bar a few pieces of what could be metal? I couldn't understand the rest of your post TBH.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Shameek » 28 Feb 2019 08:20

^^ Those 2 pictures were used earlier in some other news item as the impact points of the Pak bombs in the forest so not too sure about the F-16 claim.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Feb 2019 08:22

Sorry about that: I posted that in the NewsOnly thread to ask where to post Analysis, then pulled it out of there b4 the Predators attacked.
We need a propaganda thread. Humor is the best way to deal with Pakistan from our side, while the Armed Forces and the Diplomats do the serious things.

My serious points about today's incidents:
1. It is now established that it was a MiG-21 that crashed.
2. The crash was deep enough inside Paki territory that they captured the pilot before pilot could make it out, or our troops could provide covering fire and get him out.
3. IMO the copter crash was a rescue mission gone wrong: crashed within 10 minutes of takeoff. Shoulder-fired SAM? Sabotage?
4. Why was the MiG so deep inside? Best explanation is that he was on afterburner, in hot pursuit of a Paki. Whether Paki was F-16 or F-117 is debatable since there is no clear evidence of either. But news is that it was a flight of 16s that intruded, so it must have been a 16 that exited. Pakis are now claiming that only 117s are flown in that area - which means that a 16 DID indeed fall down.

So I put out the CT on how all that happened. :mrgreen:

A few curious things, BTW.
They put the Wing Cdr on display, with a mug in his hand, all happy and "impressed" with PA. Did u notice that they almost never showed the left side of his face/eyes. In the early pic of him being pushed around (where there was another guy with his hands up etc) he was bleeding from a cut near/above the left eye and there was a big swelling/wound above his left eye. Then towards the end of the video they briefly showed that side of his face - and there was no sign of any injury!

Someone pointed out that in the photo purportedly of him being captured/dragged out of a ditch where he may have tried to hide, there was no wound on his face. So it came after capture.
I wonder if the person shown with the mug is/was actually the WingCdr. Easy enough to fake.

All fog of war i know, but Pakis will pay nevertheless for every blow they inflict(ed) on our soldier/pilot(s).
Waiting to hear of Pakis captured, tonight.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Feb 2019 08:29

BTW, there is a logical problem which is making the News thread a bit hard to keep interesting. Analysis of war requires collating pieces of fact from various places where they are not hidden/obfuscated. I understand the objective of collecting news for later articles etc. so I don't have a readymade solution: news was getting buried in reams of chest-thumping and breast-beating and dhoti-shivering garbage on the prior threads. But we need to be able to analyze and sure, post propaganda.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby abhik » 28 Feb 2019 08:34

Was the Mi17 crash an accident, or enemy action?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Feb 2019 08:38

Unless proven otherwise, in wartime everything is enemy action. It was not a crash-landing, but an all-out crash, the vehicle broke in two. Missile, I think. Srinagar is right in the middle of the Valley of Sh1ts.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 28 Feb 2019 08:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Shameek » 28 Feb 2019 08:40

Maj. Gaurav Arya's twitter has pictures and videos of our brother in captivity. I will not link and people can find it if they want and draw their own conclusions on his condition and what was done to him. I just hope for his speedy return to Bharat.

The MI 17 crash eyewitnesses claim a big explosion prior to crashing and then parts of the helicopter exploded killing a person on ground. We all know how (un)reliable peoples memory can be. But RohitVats had 2 pictures on twitter of a potential SAM exhaust trail and a gaping hole in the tail section. Lets wait till the official investigation to be done before speculating on the cause.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Feb 2019 08:46

Face it, the WingCdr is not going to be returned soon. IIRC, in Kargil war the sh1ts executed Capt. Ahuja in cold blood after capture, but eventually had to return his co-pilot (Nachiket?)
Best bet is to abduct a Maj. General and trade him. If I have any ideas on that I ain't posting here.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ks_sachin » 28 Feb 2019 08:49

Karan M wrote:UB, even I couldn't figure out much in Soms pic. Since you couldnt either, I can now rest easy that I didnt miss something glaringly obvious. It doesnt seem to show anything much bar a few pieces of what could be metal? I couldn't understand the rest of your post TBH.

Vishnu Som knows the f-16 in and out it seems. Was he part of the Solah cheer squad for our MMRCA?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Feb 2019 08:51

c what I mean about the need for Analysis? See this post from the News Dhaga:
i just learnt from my brother in law who is in Indian AD in that very area ...the MIG was shot down by ground forces not the aircrafts ( contrary to what the PAF vid gloats) ...his men saw 2 chutes opening...the Mig was behind the enemy a/c. he was saying one of his men has grainy pics of 2 chutes opening... the PA AD thought they got 2 and ISPR in fit of bravado/excitement announced 2 IAF planes down.. 1 arrested 1 on the run..the 1 on the run was actually PAF pilot who was then taken to hospital.


That is so EZ and obvious in the hands of UBCN WAG:
UBCN WAG confirms that it was Pakistani AA fire/missiles that shot down the Pakistani F-16 and killed its pilot, after it had already been hit by the Indian Wing Cdr 's MiG-21 cannon fire. Thus Pakistan adds yet another self-goal to an impressive list (PAF successfully strafed the Pakistan Navy frigate PNS Zulfikar in Karachi harbor in 1971). This explains clearly why Pakistan initially reported downing TWO Indian planes: they shot at both planes as the F-16 was racing AWAY from the LOC into Pakistan, following PAF SOP when challenged by any Indian weapon platform, even a bullock cart.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ks_sachin » 28 Feb 2019 09:21

Why would we use cannon fire?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Shameek » 28 Feb 2019 09:46

^^ As per an Indiatimes report it was an R73 missile.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kashi » 28 Feb 2019 10:40

So we shot down a Baki F16 with R73 and Bakis shot down Wg Cmdr Abhinandan's Mig 21 Bison with ground fire.

So all the stories and interviews of the so-called ace F-16 pilot are typical Baki lies..

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Mort Walker » 28 Feb 2019 11:15

Kashi wrote:So we shot down a Baki F16 with R73 and Bakis shot down Wg Cmdr Abhinandan's Mig 21 Bison with ground fire.

So all the stories and interviews of the so-called ace F-16 pilot are typical Baki lies..


Absolutely. This is the same country that did not acknowledge their war dead in Kargil in 1999. What makes anyone think they would not lie again?

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kashi » 28 Feb 2019 11:23

We should felicitate the pilot who downed Baki F-16, perhaps an interview and TV appearance.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Feb 2019 11:30

Kashi wrote:We should felicitate the pilot who downed Baki F-16, perhaps an interview and TV appearance.


Its appears that pilot is right now in Pak custody :shock:

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kashi » 28 Feb 2019 11:32

If we go by the reports, Baki F-solah was downed by R73 missile from our Bison. Wg. Cmdr. Abhinandan was in the other Bison pursuing a second solah that he had locked on, before his plane was brought down by ground fire.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Feb 2019 11:34

Ok didnt know that

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby asgkhan » 28 Feb 2019 11:42

Dont want to link the Yawn article, but it is in the Pakistan section.

It seems that Abhi after getting downed was shot and stoned by the local goat humping abduls. He tried to dunk some stuff in water.

The (f)article also quotes the brave surrender monkeys were showered with rose petals and naara-e-takbeer of the glory of Bakistan when the convoy left for the Army base.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Feb 2019 11:49

Looks like from one of the pics put out the downed F-16 is an F-16D block 52 version twin seater, this was thier best fighter and part of the USD 5 Billion purchase 18 F-16 C/D versions.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby ajit » 28 Feb 2019 12:01

Aditya_V wrote:Looks like from one of the pics put out the downed F-16 is an F-16D block 52 version twin seater, this was thier best fighter and part of the USD 5 Billion purchase 18 F-16 C/D versions.


These are the pics the ANI report was based on. https://twitter.com/khalid_pk/status/11 ... 7406058496

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Arima » 28 Feb 2019 12:08

Kashi wrote:If we go by the reports, Baki F-solah was downed by R73 missile from our Bison. Wg. Cmdr. Abhinandan was in the other Bison pursuing a second solah that he had locked on, before his plane was brought down by ground fire.


ground fire means SAM or AA Guns??

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chetak » 28 Feb 2019 12:11

Smile boys, you are on paki camera.



Khalid khi @khalid_pk 22h22 hours ago

THE VERIFIED details of Indian Pilot, Wing Commander Abhi, captured alive by Pak forces after today's successful air combat


Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Aditya_V » 28 Feb 2019 12:16

Looking at those pics and comparing with Youtube videos, the pics at 10:33 Am and drop tank defiantely looks like F-16

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Sid » 28 Feb 2019 13:10

Images that we seems to be indicating as F-16 engine cowling is actually part of air frame. Check the video below when soldiers pick it up to be loaded in truck.
https://twitter.com/MdShafiKhatana/stat ... 0864004096

Some deduction based on info available so far -
1. Two planes went down, that's confirmed as there were multiple eye witness videos now.
2. Vantage point for all these videos is almost ~8km inside PoK.
3. With that engine on fire, a single engine aircraft could not have flown beyond a couple of KMs. Hence it crashed in PoK itself.

What happened to this 2nd pilot, and where is the wreckage, thats a million dollar question.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Cain Marko » 28 Feb 2019 13:22

Kind of surprised that no iaf sam batteries were involved in this, pity.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby krish.pf » 28 Feb 2019 13:58

The sad fact is even our own MEA has not confirmed it was F-16 . It's only the DDMs who are saying that along with their every breath.
While they have a pilot and a wreakage to parade in front of the media, we only have the go by words of our MEA. Looking at the kind of language of third part observers, and the mango admi on WA, we have lost the information war on the second round. I try to drill into their heads that it's about objectives(to prevent another terrorist strike) and not about captured pilots or mig-21s or planes shotdown count, but it's all going whooosh over their heads. They respond to my counter at the moment in a positive way but go back to the same pilot captured, we don't have proof of f-16 wreakage etc etc. Very frustrating really. Almost all people have no longer term strategic mindset.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Kashi » 28 Feb 2019 14:06

krish.pf wrote:Almost all people have no longer term strategic mindset.


Please elaborate on what you mean by that and how would you go about correcting it.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby krish.pf » 28 Feb 2019 14:13

Kashi wrote:
krish.pf wrote:Almost all people have no longer term strategic mindset.


Please elaborate on what you mean by that and how would you go about correcting it.

I'm talking about the aam aadmi who have no clue in defense and strategic issues and are only discussing it now because of the current tensions.
Last edited by krish.pf on 28 Feb 2019 14:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chandrasekaran » 28 Feb 2019 14:13

Sid wrote:Images that we seems to be indicating as F-16 engine cowling is actually part of air frame. Check the video below when soldiers pick it up to be loaded in truck.
https://twitter.com/MdShafiKhatana/stat ... 0864004096

Some deduction based on info available so far -
1. Two planes went down, that's confirmed as there were multiple eye witness videos now.
2. Vantage point for all these videos is almost ~8km inside PoK.
3. With that engine on fire, a single engine aircraft could not have flown beyond a couple of KMs. Hence it crashed in PoK itself.

What happened to this 2nd pilot, and where is the wreckage, thats a million dollar question.


Twitter is agog with photos (Pakistan TV Channel screen captures) where the wreckage of the MIG is still lying where it crashed till midnight. Whereas the wreckage that's claimed as that of the F16s are being removed around noon time itself.

Also the F16s supplied to Pakistan was supposed to be used for anti terror operations. So that's one another reason for Pakistan to clear the mess up and put a lid to this
Last edited by chandrasekaran on 28 Feb 2019 14:15, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby VikramS » 28 Feb 2019 14:14

Sid wrote:Images that we seems to be indicating as F-16 engine cowling is actually part of air frame. Check the video below when soldiers pick it up to be loaded in truck.
https://twitter.com/MdShafiKhatana/stat ... 0864004096

Some deduction based on info available so far -
1. Two planes went down, that's confirmed as there were multiple eye witness videos now.
2. Vantage point for all these videos is almost ~8km inside PoK.
3. With that engine on fire, a single engine aircraft could not have flown beyond a couple of KMs. Hence it crashed in PoK itself.

What happened to this 2nd pilot, and where is the wreckage, thats a million dollar question.


I dont see that part in the video at all. That part is nice and shiny and is very good match with the engine shown in the video above.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby rkhanna » 28 Feb 2019 14:30

For what it's worth a British based def journo Henry Jones has claimed on twitter that India has 2 PAF pilots in custody - his source are high level Indian Mil sources

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby TandavBrahmand » 28 Feb 2019 14:34

rkhanna wrote:For what it's worth a British based def journo Henry Jones has claimed on twitter that India has 2 PAF pilots in custody - his source are high level Indian Mil sources


Source? I am following him on twitter but no such info on his TL.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby Austin » 28 Feb 2019 14:41

For those who want to know about Mig-21 Bison there is a good report done on Bison by NDTV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBdx5MYrH-g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgxSzilm0Rk

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby rkhanna » 28 Feb 2019 15:06

TandavBrahmand wrote:
rkhanna wrote:For what it's worth a British based def journo Henry Jones has claimed on twitter that India has 2 PAF pilots in custody - his source are high level Indian Mil sources


Source? I am following him on twitter but no such info on his TL.



Sirji his Twitter only

https://mobile.twitter.com/hthjones/sta ... 3372344320

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby chola » 28 Feb 2019 15:08

Two things we can deduce from this:

1) Their F-16 being hit by a MiG-21 over Paki territory when the paki F-Solah is supposed to have AMRAAM means either a kill switch or it is not armed until the US releases it,

2) If the Pakis did not lie (a BIG if) and they had to use JF-17s instead of F-16s then that too means a form of restriction.

Both point to a fact that their vaunted F-Solah is unreliable. And without the F-16, the PAF is complete shite.

I would mount an Operation Linebacker where we put up a hundred planes and hit their air fields. Like the US did in Germany, Japan and Vietnam, large scale raids pull up dozens of enemy aircraft as defenders so they can be annihilated by the escorts. If they are cowards then we proceed to put their bases out of business.

These small engagements favor the weaker force. I would go big and remove the PAF as a viable entity.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JayS » 28 Feb 2019 15:28

Sid wrote:Images that we seems to be indicating as F-16 engine cowling is actually part of air frame. Check the video below when soldiers pick it up to be loaded in truck.
https://twitter.com/MdShafiKhatana/stat ... 0864004096

Some deduction based on info available so far -
1. Two planes went down, that's confirmed as there were multiple eye witness videos now.
2. Vantage point for all these videos is almost ~8km inside PoK.
3. With that engine on fire, a single engine aircraft could not have flown beyond a couple of KMs. Hence it crashed in PoK itself.

What happened to this 2nd pilot, and where is the wreckage, thats a million dollar question.

Just saw the video. I kinda agree that it looks like airframe part. I have been thinking the same. The curvature suggested the ribs are internal, not external. I would never have thought its Jet engine casing based on how it looks. But again parts do get mangled beyond recognition in crashes. Its much easier if we get external signature components.

But frankly I do not understand the frenzy among Indians in taking a piece of debris and trying to extrapolate too much from it, without much credible info like tail number or some signature component at hand. Good that GOI is not making any unsubstantiated claims. Its better to keep mum and speak late that have egg on face situation later.


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