Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

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sudhan
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sudhan » 28 Feb 2019 19:58

tsarkar wrote:Can someone share the gist of the press conference?


Key take aways

IAF:

- IAF has visual and ELINT evidence to prove that the F16s were in the mix yesterday
- AVM quotes paki media reports and IA ground sightings to state that there were indeed 2 chutes seen opening after the A/C was hit (2 seater F-16)
- AMRAAM debris found in Rajouri. Can only be mounted on F16 in PAF.
- PAF aimed for IA installations, Swift IAF response made them miss. It was NOT an intentional miss as claimed.
- Intercepted PAF with a mix of MiG21, M2k and Su30s
- Our pilot ejected and drifted over to PoK.
- Happy to have Wg.Co back, this is not an act of goodwill but an action as per Geneva convention. (Very clearly said.. for the WKKs and Dimran fans)

IA:

- IA military targets targetted by PAF, IAF prevented casualties with prompt response
- Ceasefire violation continue unabated across LoC


IN:

- Stands ready with the other arms in all 3 dimensions.

Questions:

About Balakot atacks:
- Casualities: We have hit all that we wanted to hit, it's immature to claim number of casualities.
- We have Battle damage evidence. It is up to the govt to release it or not.

Then AMRAAM debris was shown
Last edited by sudhan on 28 Feb 2019 20:01, edited 1 time in total.

UlanBatori
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Feb 2019 19:59

And (assuming he returns safely!) he made the Paks pay for disposing of an old plane. Win-win.
Man! I HOPE I don't have to go across the LOC with you guys as my Support. :P
Look, if pieces of a Paki missile fell this side of LOC, chances are that the missile aimed at the WingCdr/s plane was also fired this side of the LOC. Instead of trying to escape he may have just persisted with his lock on the Paki and taken him out. That is what Indian heroes do. Pakis would have turned towards the Sun, with the gas from their musharrafs adding to the thrust.

When AIMs were developed the bogey that it was specifically intended for, was MiG-21 class. Chances of escape are nothing. Chances of living after an AIM strike on your MiG are next to nothing. Do you think one becomes a WingCo in IAF w/o being able to do that calculation at the speed of light?

He put no value on his own life. He knew that a MIg-21+Indian Pilot >> F16+Paki rat is too valuable a demo, to waste the chance of a lifetime. Imagine your whole life flashing before you: AIM coming at you, F-16 in your sights. Decision time. What would you do?
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Tum sab dukh se.. dar ke bhage

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby rgosain » 28 Feb 2019 19:59

The size of the PAF strike package with a dozen or so F16 armed with AIM-120 must have presented a very large elint signature whose data will be a treasure trove of information to the iaf and intelligence analysts. In addition the IAF will be able to study the electronic spectrum of the amraam under combat conditions.
Looks as if the PAF do not trust the PRC platforms and missiles.

ps regarding pressers: no one can beat the Paks and Arabs for semantic posturing so do not even try

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sudhan » 28 Feb 2019 20:00

The AVM did a 'Chaddi Uttrao' on the DGISPR statements.. He also detailed the sequence of downhill skiing w.r.t no of planes hit and the number indian pilots under custody..

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Feb 2019 20:00

manjgu wrote:boys...i think the party is over. Nothing happening over my house... its now back to aman ki tamasha. sighhhh... another Prithvi Raj Chauhan episode..when we had the snake under our shoes we let it go...


i have told friends there is no binary/T20 solution to the issue of 200million strong radicalized nuclear armed failed state that happens to be our permanent neighbour.

but the relative dispartities in power and coercion are now starting to open up

ask yourself -

could we have done this in 1998 ?
in 2008?

it was only in 2008 that our per capita income crossed TSPs and in 10 years we have opened a 50% gap while their slide into abyss continues.

there might be periodic terror attacks but the precedent is now set, large scale and surprise air attacks have opened up new spaces to probe their backsides (painfully) with. their economy will continue its slide and their voice grow feeble as the world wants in on our growth , not their tirades and needy bikhari tactics.

time itself will take care of them even if we do nothing special.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby shyamal » 28 Feb 2019 20:02

The presser did not sound like deescalation at all.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 28 Feb 2019 20:04

I hope US Government takes account of the use of AMRAAM by Pakistan as a part of its stated policy.

https://samm.dsca.mil/policy-memoranda/dsca-05-24
Inventory and Accountability Documentation: The Purchaser agrees that all AMRAAM will be 100% inventoried (missile to serial number) on a semi-annual basis. Purchaser will have procedures in place that provide a continuous accounting of missile receipt, transfer, storage, shipment, and/or destruction/ demilitarization. Inventory and accountability documentation maintained by the Purchaser shall be retained throughout the period of ownership and will be made available for review upon USG request.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 28 Feb 2019 20:05

I remember the discussion on BRF at the time, the US knew full well that these Amraams were always meant to be anti-India

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ranneel » 28 Feb 2019 20:07

In all these one thing to remember is to teach a lesson to the folks on the POK side but before that need to clean our side.
Last edited by ranneel on 28 Feb 2019 20:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby abhijitm » 28 Feb 2019 20:07

shyamal wrote:The presser did not sound like deescalation at all.

They clearly said there will not be escalation from our side until pakistan provokes. That is de escalation. Which is fine. We have achieved our mission objective. We shall escalate when provoked.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 28 Feb 2019 20:08

not just amraams but aim9L, harpoons, various PGMs, .... there is a "pool" of US weapons in middle east in places like turkey and saudi that US can give ishara to transfer to TSP in times of need.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 28 Feb 2019 20:12

in 71 it was the Mig21 FL vs F104 from Jordan using a K13
in 19 it was the Mig21 Bison vs F16 from Jordon using a R73

same old same old

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 28 Feb 2019 20:13

abhijitm wrote:
shyamal wrote:The presser did not sound like deescalation at all.

They clearly said there will not be escalation from our side until pakistan provokes. That is de escalation. Which is fine. We have achieved our mission objective. We shall escalate when provoked.

That part sounded like a slip up. The MOD Babu gave a dirty look and subsequent talk was very jingo

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 28 Feb 2019 20:15

Singha... but we let them go v cheap... i am v disappointed. Imran is still telling us that what is happening in kashmir is a freedom struggle, legitimate... atleast full mobilisation and a few strikes were in order. If another terror strike happens before elections, Modi ji will be in a tight spot. Now congress will go to town tomtoming...Modi ji chickened out. The 5th column has colluded once again to pressurize GOI about abhinandan ..the real issue has been lost sight of.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby abhishekm » 28 Feb 2019 20:16

Show is over. Small window of opportunity over the next day, otherwise here's what will happen now:

1. Wing Co will return tomorrow.
2. Unkil will give Pakistan a mouthful.
3. Western nations will commend both sides for restraint and China will again veto UNSC resolution in exchange for cosmetic action from Pakistan.
4. Trump will compose a nonsensical tweet about the importance of peace.
5. Indian MSM and DDM will savour the small victory and ask the nation to think long term about India's economic growth potential.
6. Govt will selectively leak evidence of strikes which will be used during the election cycle.

And hopefully...
7. Modi returns to power and epidemic of brown shalwaring breaks out in Pakistan.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 28 Feb 2019 20:16

Austin wrote:IAF officially confirms that the parts seen in Pakistan including drop tanks does not belong to the Migs but F-16.

Electronic Signature confirm it was the F-16 ....... Su-30MKI , Upgraded Mirages and Bison was used to oppose PAF strike package

PAF strike package was F-16 , JF-17 and Mirages


+1

Wouldn't wingman's HMS have a video recorder if he saw them ejecting? Those blackboxes were part of the upgrade package.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 28 Feb 2019 20:17

Realistically, for now any future retaliation from our side will be on hold. World would like us to take into consideration paki releasing our pilot, geneva conventions notwithstanding. We need to wait till pakis do something stupid again.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Kaila » 28 Feb 2019 20:17

Airforce confirmed it was two seater paki F16 which was shot by IAF..See video two pilots parchutes going down from same aircraft..public saying two pilots not one-- in punjabi .seems this is the video https://twitter.com/khalid_pk/status/11 ... 3318598659

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 28 Feb 2019 20:18

true... there is no noise over my house since afternoon. I know party is over.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby abhik » 28 Feb 2019 20:19

khan wrote:Optics aside, this presser went well.

The groundwork has been laid to hit back as soon the Wing Commander comes back.


Postponing the response after Wing Commanders return does not make sense - what if more pow are taken in retaliatory action- can't expect another time-out. Or what if tomorrow the pakis say 'oh sorry, the car bringing him to Wagah broke down, comeback next week onlee'.

khan wrote:
Dilbu wrote:If everything goes on as it is then it looks like a fizzle out. But always trust TSP to come up with some brilliant plan which will explode on their face.

This might be grasping at straws, but that tri-Service briefing could change the narrative by:

(1) Sticking to only explaining prior historical events.
(2) Making the point that returning the pilot is not a big deal. They are just following the rules.
(3) Refusing to engage on next moves.

If Pakistan wants to de-escalate & save face, they can hand over some terrorists.

Good call, exactly what happened.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby JTull » 28 Feb 2019 20:20

Pakistan's narrative has reached Wikipedia. This shooting is being reported in their image.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 28 Feb 2019 20:20

Singha wrote:
kit wrote:The Americans sold them the AIM 120 for the fight against Taliban :evil:

muricans must be made to face the consequences like getting the silent treatment on hornet, jsf and the jokey f21. and told why this is so.

er... so Unkil farts about being angry with Pakis for crossing border with American fighter plane. Isn't that then going to be part of any F-16/18/22/35 deal that India is being advised to sign? Also apply to C-17? Apaches?

I presume that NaMo called Le Grande Phrog and got permission b4 sending Mirage2000s?
All just tamasha. I think every Indian post and article should mention AMERICAN-SUPPLIED, TERRORIST-OPERATED F-16, AMRAAM, etc.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby shyamal » 28 Feb 2019 20:21

India today did a poll - do you support airstrikes to avenge pulwama
The result -
yes - 33%
should do more strikes - 41%
so overwhelming support for more strikes.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 28 Feb 2019 20:28

abhik wrote:
khan wrote:Optics aside, this presser went well.

The groundwork has been laid to hit back as soon the Wing Commander comes back.


Postponing the response after Wing Commanders return does not make sense - what if more pow are taken in retaliatory action- can't expect another time-out. Or what if tomorrow the pakis say 'oh sorry, the car bringing him to Wagah broke down, comeback next week onlee'.

khan wrote:This might be grasping at straws, but that tri-Service briefing could change the narrative by:

(1) Sticking to only explaining prior historical events.
(2) Making the point that returning the pilot is not a big deal. They are just following the rules.
(3) Refusing to engage on next moves.

If Pakistan wants to de-escalate & save face, they can hand over some terrorists.

Good call, exactly what happened.

Yes, I could have phrased that better, the groundwork has been laid to hit back regardless of the return of the Wing Commander.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby DrRatnadip » 28 Feb 2019 20:29

Pulwama is not avenged yet.. I am disappointed.. We took a significant step to punish pakis for supporting terror.. Why are we backing down.. Nation is united with Modi sir , paki economy in serious trouble.. we have proofs of paki jets trying to bomb our army installation.. If this is Not right time then right time may never come..

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Chinmayanand » 28 Feb 2019 20:30

I think the announcement of release of wing commander changed the discourse of the press conference.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 28 Feb 2019 20:31

The presser was to embarrass the US and burst the Porki lie bubble of no F-16 being downed.

The overall intent behind the operation and the presser was a paradigm shift in Indian response to cross border terrorism. Per the Doval doctrine, we've increased the cost of such misadventures: they had to mobilize, lose a crown jewel plane, any claims of preparedness were shattered by us disregarding their sovereign territory and airspace, blackouts scaring their populace, and equally importantly the cost of shutting down the airspace for all flights etc. ALL of this is an extreme price to pay for a nation tethering on the edge of bankruptcy, not to mention the human cost of 300+ porki fodder lives lost, and perhaps their pilot's life as well. We 've also completely dismantled the tactical escalation bullshit they've been peddling forever.

Overall, the presser said this to me: We reserve the right to act in a similar fashion aka cross your border for a solid jhapad for any cross border terrorism in the future, we are not declaring all out war, but know that if you react with war, we're prepared to fight that too in response to cross border jhapad for cross border terrorism exchange offer.

I promise you, the next terror attack will meet with a similar cross border military operation - one that isn't prohibitive for us, but is prohibitive for them.
Last edited by Raveen on 28 Feb 2019 20:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby naruto » 28 Feb 2019 20:32

Hukum
‏ @reachanshul
The PAF F-16 Pilot Shotdown by the Mig-21 Bison of the IAF has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron (Sherdils) flying F-16 A/B. He is the son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, Deputy Chief of Air Staff (Operations) PAF.
@VishnuNDTV @zone5aviation
https://twitter.com/reachanshul/status/ ... 6193644544

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby pankajs » 28 Feb 2019 20:35

Further down .... by the same guy

"He died in the crash."

This could be the reason for the extreme reluctance on Bakis part.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Rishi_Tri » 28 Feb 2019 20:37

Look at the statement:

Pakistan Press Conference, TV Appearance: PM Imran Khan
Indian Press Conference, TV Appearance: Air Vice Marshal Kapoor, Major General Behl, Admiral Gujral

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 28 Feb 2019 20:37

On a side note, the lady from PTI, what was her name? She should be banned from any future press conferences for asking that stupid question. It is not a sign of good will or aman ki assha you dimwit, its the international law that forces the handover of POWs...what a dumbass Porki troll.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby chola » 28 Feb 2019 20:37

Karthik S wrote:Realistically, for now any future retaliation from our side will be on hold. World would like us to take into consideration paki releasing our pilot, geneva conventions notwithstanding. We need to wait till pakis do something stupid again.


They wouldn’t have agreed to release the Wing Commander without this kind of understanding. I believe our navy was about to strike. Their retaliation options here to make things equal-equal were far less than in the air.

They would have been thoroughly thrashed and embarassed and their economy taking an even worse hit from action on their waters.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Lalmohan » 28 Feb 2019 20:38

Imran might be flying solo at the moment anyway, he has said too many peacenik things
unless he can guarantee 4 father backing, the fauj will toss him aside soon

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby JTull » 28 Feb 2019 20:41

Image

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby IndraD » 28 Feb 2019 20:42

we can create a separate page for MiG shooting F16 with very few instances like this known

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 28 Feb 2019 20:43

Lalmohan wrote:Imran might be flying solo at the moment anyway, he has said too many peacenik things
unless he can guarantee 4 father backing, the fauj will toss him aside soon


Sir, the script would have been provided by the fauj themselves.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Chinmayanand » 28 Feb 2019 20:46

Check this video out.

https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/110 ... 97601?s=09 ---> BREAKING: Pakistan admits: Terror factory demolished.

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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016

Postby John » 28 Feb 2019 20:51

JTull wrote:
Austin wrote:IAF officially confirms that the parts seen in Pakistan including drop tanks does not belong to the Migs but F-16.

Electronic Signature confirm it was the F-16 ....... Su-30MKI , Upgraded Mirages and Bison was used to oppose PAF strike package

PAF strike package was F-16 , JF-17 and Mirages


+1

Wouldn't wingman's HMS have a video recorder if he saw them ejecting? Those blackboxes were part of the upgrade package.

Doubt that will stop them from sticking to the claim. See Soviet Afghan war, Pakistan refused to acknowledge most losses and even blamed it on silly things training accident or friendly fire. Even when Soviets/Afghan gov released gun camera, this was done purposely by CIA/Pakistan to negatively portray USSR and they stuck to the strategy since then.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby parshuram » 28 Feb 2019 20:56

Came across this -> CAITC picture of capable of hosting AMMRAM. Can Any expert confirm?

https://twitter.com/snikhil1979/status/ ... 76066?s=12

PS: Not doubting IAF. Just asking out of curiosity.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Shivaji » 28 Feb 2019 20:57

Chinmayanand wrote:Check this video out.

https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/110 ... 97601?s=09 ---> BREAKING: Pakistan admits: Terror factory demolished.

Original from Pakistan parliament can be found at:

https://youtu.be/wdP1U0TJSSs

Check at around 23:50 minutes.
Last edited by Shivaji on 28 Feb 2019 20:58, edited 1 time in total.


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