Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 01 Mar 2019 00:29

Rakesh wrote:Reportedly this is Wing Commander Shahzaz Ud Din, No 19 Sherdils Sqn, Pakistan Air Force.

He is standing in front of a Chinese Su-27 or Su-30 or a Chinese copy of one.[/img]

Porkies are disputing this.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Mar 2019 00:30

Saw this Paki twitter and Paki fora, Paki Pilot some Hassan told senior ex Paf that they dropped bombs and killed 350 Indians on 27 Feb afternoon , there was no battle damage assessment which could have been done at such short notice. SO IAF and Indian statement that the PAF came with intention to kill is confirmed by PAF pilots, so the raid was a failure on that account. and why would PAF have such an intention unless the PA has lost many soldiers or has the PAF lost some of its men in Balakot?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Mar 2019 00:31

THe exact Pilot the IAF has not stated its all wild speculation, IAF probably knows through Elint sources. Give a few days Pakis will disclose silently

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 01 Mar 2019 00:32

Austin wrote:Yes was thinking the same how did the wingman dodged the AMRAAM C5, maneuvering jamming and bit of luck, this is close range fight so energy and maneuverability is not can issue for the missile , so pilot has to be agile and quick thinking

Well the R73 warhead does not explode in IAF exercise but does in real one and the ejection seat works on 21

Now we need F-21

When operating at close distances kinematics can actually work against you as your ability to turn on a dime is less when traveling faster or accelerating from the rails, especially for a missile that does not have TVC or very large control surfaces like WVR missiles do that allow them to snap and turn to attack off bore sight targets. Similarly, if you are launching at very close distances and the launch is sub-optimal there may be no mid-course update at all as the launch aircraft would have very little time to launch, maneuver and then try to re-acquire the target or communicate with the missile. While more advanced BVRAAMs have much improved HOBS and close in capability than of those in the past this is an area where large control surfaces of the Python or the TV of the Aim-9X and other missiles really allow them to cover some of the ground straight off the rail before they pick up speed requiring higher Gs like they would on a BVRAAM.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Mar 2019 00:37

Aditya_V wrote:Saw this Paki twitter and Paki fora, Paki Pilot some Hassan told senior ex Paf that they dropped bombs and killed 350 Indians on 27 Feb afternoon , there was no battle damage assessment which could have been done at such short notice. SO IAF and Indian statement that the PAF came with intention to kill is confirmed by PAF pilots, so the raid was a failure on that account. and why would PAF have such an intention unless the PA has lost many soldiers or has the PAF lost some of its men in Balakot?

Reasons other than direct loss that would propel them to act.

1. Jihadis no longer feel protected anywhere in bakistan. BIG news for them. The least that TSPA can do is avenge the loss and at least assure an == retaliation if not protection.
2. Shut the door back that Modi had just opened as a response to a terrorist attack.
3. A BIG hit in India would have played perfectly against Modi.
4. Pajwa is cutlet having failed the jihadis. He was supposed to protect them.

Of course the tactically brilliant may not have realized that it would only have forced his to directly bomb multiple TSPA units and escalate.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2019 00:39

in modern times greek (M2K,F16) often engage with turkiye f16 over the islands of the aegean sea. greece owns all the islands right upto the turkiye coast because the last ottomans were weak.
they try to get missile lock on each other but do not fire

guru.shetty · Post by **guru.shetty** » 01 Mar 2019 00:43

nam wrote:https://twitter.com/Nambitiger1/status/ ... 7054807040
The PAF has now come up with details of the pilot of the ill fated F 16. The F-16 pilot who was killed yesterday has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron flying F-16 He is the brave son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, DCAS(Operations). May he RIP.
This is as official it gets.

Sir, looks like you are quoting a fake twitter account. Created in Feb 2018.

The Shahzad Ud Din story is a plant. They look to be creating a narrative that Indians are claiming that some guy is dead and then show him alive and show how stupid they are.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Mar 2019 00:44

twitter is about as genuine a place now as a windows95 PC infected with 100 viruses that feed on other 100 viruses.

i think its beyond a cleanup, it needs to be simply banned in india and be done with it.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Mar 2019 00:45

That is the official account of Air Marshal R Nambiar. In the absence of any further data, there is no reason to suspect otherwise.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Mar 2019 00:47

Karan M wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:IIRC American mijjiles are set so that if a mijjile is fired inside the terrorist part of the LOC that is OK (probably the one that hit the WingCo's MiG). But the moment it crossed the Yellow Sea its guidance went bonkers. So much for Paki air raids: their AAMs won't work inside Indian airspace. Once their planes enter Indian airspace they are s(h)itting turkeys.

Think about it: How else does a 1960s airplane like MiG-21 dodge an AIM as the wingman's plane did, hain?

Gee, Karanji, dont' give away this info pls? For me, it is 100% unaimously evident: Paki missiles do not work once over the LOC. Like Paki fighter pilots, mijjiles also turn 180 degrees and head back towards Islamagood.

Now I WONDER: How about those NoKo missiles with cheen warheads? Do they have Dilli GPS coordinates or Pindi GPS coordinates? Should we take a poll, I wonder.

I am beginning to wonder if the rice eaten by present-day BRfees is Made in Pakistan or what..

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Mar 2019 00:48

Meh, Paki fora is only good for being the Pakistan of the internet.
@AdityaV,
We are over thinking this, why did the PAF respond, because we showed them to be useless, alongwith their ADGES. We went 10s of km inside their country, bombed a prized target and came back unscathed.

They have to respond or else their i.e the military's social contract with their awam breaks down. Also, the terror groups will also become harder to control if they do nothing.

Now why the large package of aircraft for the reprisal attack ? Because that's the only way it would be somewhat survivable. They probably hoped that the large formation would scare away any IAF birds on CAP. They clearly didn't account for lion hearted fighter pilots like WingCo Abhinandan. Even then, they only sent a token force of their most survivable fighter, the f16 across the loc for a token raid and got bounced. That is all that they hoped to achieve, a token raid with no losses in order to claim an equal equal with India to Paki awam. AndDthey failed in doing even that much.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Mar 2019 00:51

Rakesh wrote:Reportedly this is Wing Commander Shahzaz Ud Din, No 19 Sherdils Sqn, Pakistan Air Force.

He is standing in front of a Chinese Su-27 or Su-30 or a Chinese copy of one.

But why is the missile pointed FORWARD? This cannot be a PAF plane, per truth established here.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Mar 2019 00:52

And the "supposed" Leader of the Free World has this to say....

https://twitter.com/BloombergAsia/statu ... 5983837184 ---> Trump says there's "reasonably decent" news on the India-Pakistan conflict and "hopefully" it's coming to an end.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Mar 2019 00:52

UlanBatori wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Reportedly this is Wing Commander Shahzaz Ud Din, No 19 Sherdils Sqn, Pakistan Air Force.

He is standing in front of a Chinese Su-27 or Su-30 or a Chinese copy of one.
But why is the missile pointed FORWARD? This cannot be a PAF plane, per truth established here.

First it flies forward, does a 180 and heads towards Islamabad

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Mar 2019 00:53

guru.shetty wrote:
nam wrote:https://twitter.com/Nambitiger1/status/ ... 7054807040

This is as official it gets.
Sir, looks like you are quoting a fake twitter account. Created in Feb 2018.

The Shahzad Ud Din story is a plant. They look to be creating a narrative that Indians are claiming that some guy is dead and then show him alive and show how stupid they are.

Correct!

Trip you up on one point and use that to discredit all info at least on SM.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Mar 2019 00:56

Rakesh wrote:And the "supposed" Leader of the Free World has this to say....

https://twitter.com/BloombergAsia/statu ... 5983837184 ---> Trump says there's "reasonably decent" news on the India-Pakistan conflict and "hopefully" it's coming to an end.

Libturds on SM have found another champion besides Dimran. They now are thanking Trumpanzee for the return of our IAF officer. This for a guy they hate as viscerally as they hate Modi!

But anything to deny Modi credit. Jai ho!

guru.shetty · Post by **guru.shetty** » 01 Mar 2019 00:58

Rakesh wrote:That is the official account of Air Marshal R Nambiar. In the absence of any further data, there is no reason to suspect otherwise.

May be you are seeing a different version of the account from a different database. From where I am, I see a newly created account with 141 new followers.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 01 Mar 2019 01:04

Guys, on the IAF/military/Navy press conference, Kanchan GuptaJi was was tweeting the following about some Indian journo. Who is she?

@KanchanGupta
5h5 hours ago
More
A woman reporter kept badgering the IAF officer at the presser: "Are you grateful to Pakistan that your pilot is being released? Do you see it as a goodwill gesrure?"
The officer, a thorough gentleman, put her down: "We see it as a gesture under Geneva convention."
#MSM

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 01 Mar 2019 01:05

Y I Patel wrote:
Singha wrote:but hasnt it always been in this order?

PA > PAF > PN > PM

PM is the peon who does what the other 3 tell him to do, esp the big dog PA.

PAF was supposed to be "secular" in the old days, maybe to some extent it still is?
That’s what they and their clients would have us believe. The reality, of course, is that 24 turned tail when challenged by 8.

That, is indeed the bottomline.

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 01 Mar 2019 01:20

Folks, posted a review of last evening's tri-services press conference.

Blog Link
Twitter Link

Firstly, regarding the change of time from 5pm to 7pm. I think it is fair to assume that it was precipitated by the Pakis’ decision to release Wing Commander Abhinandan. In fact, that announcement came less than an hour after I too speculated the same.
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The announcement by the Pakistani Beggar-in-Chief Shri Imran Khan was, unsurprisingly, accompanied by a lot of pontification and sermonizing by the still rattled Pakis attempting to take the moral high ground!

Phrases such as Burhan Wani, Kashmir, blah blah were heard aplenty.

Pakis were happy that they have the upper hand by the way of Wing Commander Abhinandan, no doubt.

Yet, behind all that bravado lurked a real fear – that of the Indian ultimatum that the PoW be returned unharmed and unconditionally.

They were, of course, sorely disappointed by the GOI’s stand.
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Like all of us over here, I am sure the Brown Panted ones on the Paki side too would have been watching it with keen interest – would India accept their ‘peace offering’ in the form of repatriation of the PoW or not!

I think within the first thirty seconds, they would have realized this wouldn’t be the case!

The IAF representative not only pulled their brown pants down, exposing them in front of all that were tuned in, he then proceeded to spank their bare, unwashed bums too!

He not only reiterated GOI’s stand of yesterday that PAF was actually seeking to bomb military targets in response to the terror infrastructure engaged by IAF, but he also said that the much hyped Paki ‘Fizzle-ya’ failed to do so, even a mere kilometer or so across the LoC!
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Even 32 hrs after losing an F-16 and possibly one of the two pilots flying it, they had STILL not officially acknowledged it to their own population. And they thought they could keep their brainwashed yahoos blissfully unaware!

Well, an Air Marshal in Delhi put paid to that!
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The good general spoke for barely a couple of minutes, since much ‘glamour’ had been stolen by the PAF & IAF.

But then there were two phrases which he used that I am sure, would have made Paki Army proud to have stuck with brown pants as their official uniform!

He mentioned that the IA was ready on the LoC AND THE IB!

And then, to thumb his nose at Shri Bajwa, he very matter-of-factly put in a word about IA’s mechanised formations being put on standby!

In a gesture of extreme benevolence to the enemy, he took extreme care NOT to use the words ‘Cold’ and ‘Start’ at all in his statement!
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Then one question came about which made me think whether a Paki or two had infiltrated the Press Corps in attendance – Was the IAF ‘grateful’ for the release of Wing Commander Abhinandan?

I swear I could almost see the good Air Marshal do a mental facepalm on hearing this!

And then he replied – It is the Pakis who should be grateful to their Brown Panted rulers who decided to release him, or else ..

Ok, so he didn’t use those exact words, but this is more or less the gist of what he conveyed!
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Things might heat up yet again, maybe after Wing Commander Abhinandan is repatriated, or maybe tonight itself.

Or they might not heat up at all.

One really cannot say how or what will happen.

But one thing that has in fact happened, is hiding in plain sight – India has forever changed the rules of this game two days ago when the MEA spokie said that the #BalakotStrike was a PRE-EMPTIVE strike.

This means that India, in future,may not wait for a successful terror attack in order to cross the borders again.

Read the above statement once again.

Let it sink in.
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In the end, let us all rise from our respective chairs or beds or sofas as the case may be, and observe a minute of silence for the F-16 Jet!

What the Pakis managed to do yesterday was to give the F-16 its ‘Sabre Moment’!

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 01 Mar 2019 01:23

nam wrote:https://twitter.com/Nambitiger1/status/ ... 7054807040
The PAF has now come up with details of the pilot of the ill fated F 16. The F-16 pilot who was killed yesterday has been now identified by PAF as Wg Cdr Shahzaz Ud Din of No 19 Squadron flying F-16 He is the brave son of Air Marshal Waseem Ud Din, DCAS(Operations). May he RIP.
This is as official it gets.

I think he was just injured when on ground! The Baki janta thought he was Indian and killed him.

saip · Post by **saip** » 01 Mar 2019 01:25

guru.shetty wrote:
Rakesh wrote:That is the official account of Air Marshal R Nambiar. In the absence of any further data, there is no reason to suspect otherwise.
May be you are seeing a different version of the account from a different database. From where I am, I see a newly created account with 141 new followers.

You realize this is 2019 and the account was created in Feb 2018 more than an year back. How is that new?

guru.shetty · Post by **guru.shetty** » 01 Mar 2019 01:29

saip wrote:
guru.shetty wrote:
May be you are seeing a different version of the account from a different database. From where I am, I see a newly created account with 141 new followers.
You realize this is 2019 and the account was created in Feb 2018 more than an year back. How is that new?

I do come out as stupid now. [Nothing in that account screamed "official" to me.].

Vamsi_V · Post by **Vamsi_V** » 01 Mar 2019 01:37

Tomorrow once our brave pilot is released will we know all the details about the dog fight ?

khan · Post by **khan** » 01 Mar 2019 01:40

Be very careful with Twitter accounts.

For a twitter account to be considered legitimate, it needs to be positively verified.

By positively verified, I mean, there needs to be some independent corroboration that the account is legitimate.

For all you know some account that was named “Dawood Ibrahim” a year ago can change their name & handle today and become a year old “R Namibiar” account.

Also be skeptical of official “verified” Twitter accounts - only trust sources you can verify in the real world or via TV or some independent trustworthy channel.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Mar 2019 02:01

kancha, You understood the best what #Balakotstrike was all about.
Kudos
ramana

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 01 Mar 2019 02:02

ranneel wrote: The great magician Feynman once said ....

I am ancient enough to actually listen Feynman in person and one of the quote which impressed me, and he used it quite often was:

What do you care what other people think ..You have no responsibility to live up to what other people think you ought to accomplish. (I have no responsibility to be like they expect me to be. It's their mistake, not my failing -- something to that effect)

I for one, am glad that Modi/GOI/Indian Forces are not "caring" about what other silly experts (like talking heads, NYTimes editorials, etc) and doing what they think ought to be done.
It has been sort of long time, since 1971, when India forces are showing us what they are capable of, when civil government trusts them and has their back.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Mar 2019 02:02

Ok will reply to some of the interesting posts that need clarification and will post my views.
ramana

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 01 Mar 2019 02:07

Guys, just to reiterate whilst its nice to take a narrow focus on Operation Balakot - the reality is that major countries had a stake in Indo Pak Conflict: Iran, Japan, China, Russia, US , France, UK, GCC. Ultimately it is this pressure which led to reducing tensions.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Mar 2019 02:09

putnanja wrote:Out of curiosity, will the wing co be subject to any CoI as he continued to chase the bandits and got shot down in enemy territory?

No Wing Co Abhinandan really took the fight to the PAF and shot down their pride and joy F-16 Block 52D in his Mig 21 Upgrade. he disrupted the entire strike package that PAF came to attack targets in Kashmir. He got shot down in Indian side of LOC and it was his parachute that drifted to Pak side.
Why would you do COI?
He will be welcomed with great honors and is a living legend now.
After Sqd Ldr Devayya shot down the F-104 in his Mystere and Flt Lt. Nirmaljit Sekhon those sabres we now have a living legend air warrior.

In my bad mood would have given you a warning for even thinking like that.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Mar 2019 02:10

Mort Walker wrote:It was an indeed an AIM-120C-5 based on Contract FA8675-05-C-0070 printed on the missile. Intended for RSAF and Singapore AF, but how did it end up with the PAF?

http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Co ... actID=3350

Raytheon Co., Tucson, Ariz., is being awarded a $65,772,806 firm-fixed-price contract modification. This action will exercise an option to purchase 123 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAMM) Air Vehicles (AAVs) Air Intercept Missile (AIM)-120C-5 missiles among them: 9 for the USAF and 114 FMS; 51 warranties and foreign military service software configuration management. This effort supports foreign military sales to Singapore and Saudi Arabia. At this time, total funds have been obligated. This work will be complete November 2008. Headquarters Medium Range Missile Systems Group, Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., is the contracting activity. (FA8675-05-C-0070/P00026)

Need to take up with US as to how did PAF acquire this AMRAAM? Where are their vaunted End User Certificates etc.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Mar 2019 02:12

arshyam wrote:
nam wrote:If the AMRAAM belongs to Jordan, US needs to explain, how did AMRAAM end up with PAF.

Since US makes lot of noise about who uses it's kit, was the transfer approved by US Congress?
Demarche the US amby.

One thing for sure - the F-16 proposal by LM for the MRCA competition is dead as the dodo. Not even as good as the MiG-21, at least from the aam aadmi PoV, and no govt will proceed with them as a contender.

One of the losers in #Balakote Strike is LM.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 01 Mar 2019 02:16

Will now be interesting to see what Dr Vivek Lall comes up with for marketing the F-16 Block 70, oops F-21.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 01 Mar 2019 02:18

ramana wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:It was an indeed an AIM-120C-5 based on Contract FA8675-05-C-0070 printed on the missile. Intended for RSAF and Singapore AF, but how did it end up with the PAF?

http://archive.defense.gov/Contracts/Co ... actID=3350

Need to take up with US as to how did PAF acquire this AMRAAM? Where are their vaunted End User Certificates etc.

Ramana and Mort garu - idrw has the take that this was intended for Pakis 0026 vs 0028

guru.shetty · Post by **guru.shetty** » 01 Mar 2019 02:18

shyamd wrote:Guys, just to reiterate whilst its nice to take a narrow focus on Operation Balakot - the reality is that major countries had a stake in Indo Pak Conflict: Iran, Japan, China, Russia, US , France, UK, GCC. Ultimately it is this pressure which led to reducing tensions.

NYtimes reports today that Pentagon's peace plan with Taliban for Afghanistan involves complete American withdrawal in 5 years. It could be one of the factors with current and future short term Indian escalation plans. India wants to get some results before the world leaves Afghanistan.

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 01 Mar 2019 02:18

ramana wrote:
arshyam wrote: Demarche the US amby.

One thing for sure - the F-16 proposal by LM for the MRCA competition is dead as the dodo. Not even as good as the MiG-21, at least from the aam aadmi PoV, and no govt will proceed with them as a contender.
One of the losers in #Balakote Strike is LM.

Don't underestimate the power of marketing or overestimate Public's memories. LM will come up with nonsense like 'that was an old F-16, Block 52, we are offering India the shiniest and the strongest Block 70 ones'. The circus will continue but I hope we learn from this and atleast expedite Tejas Mk1A. We need the numbers Tejas can give us.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Mar 2019 02:21

DrRatnadip wrote:Pulwama is not avenged yet.. I am disappointed.. We took a significant step to punish pakis for supporting terror.. Why are we backing down.. Nation is united with Modi sir , paki economy in serious trouble.. we have proofs of paki jets trying to bomb our army installation.. If this is Not right time then right time may never come..

Doc, What would make you happy?

If you were not so depressed you would realize the world has changed today with basically KSA giving 3T(Allah, Mohammed (bin Salman), and atmi takhat) to TSP and took back their Chinese nukes kept with them for custody.
Balakot strike told them that Spicy delivery makes risky any storage facility for GOI can attack such sites under anti-terror rubric. nukes are no longer safe in TSP custody and took them away today morning.
And once people started tweeting this they switched off the transponder at 38K feet.

What more do you want? Go out and play with the kids in sunshine.

The nuke threat since 1986 by General Zia Ul Haq and repeated every years by every Paki jerk is over.
No more gleam in jihadi Brigadier eyes of nuking Mumbai or Hyderabad.
Even the NPA gang screams of nuke flash point are muffled.

What they have left are unreliable battlefield nukes which now become world problem if the state decays.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 01 Mar 2019 02:22

brar_w, since this appears to be a ex-Jordanian F-16B Block 15 ADF (which I am assuming has gone through the MLU upgrade). How much of the Block 50/52 capability does the MLU upgrade include?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Mar 2019 02:22

Singha wrote:Ratan N. Tata
Verified account
@RNTata2000
Feb 26
More
We congratulate the PM and the IAF for the successful air strikes on the terrorist training camps which Pakistan has claimed never existed! India is proud of the firm action taken in retaliation to the suicide attack on our soldiers a few days ago. @narendramodi

This guy is the Biggest LOSER today.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Mar 2019 02:23

Singha wrote:may I ask why exactly BRF is maintaining a database of serving IAF officers ?

Yes we need to reflect on this collectively.
Especially after yesterday.