Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

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Julian_Bashir
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Julian_Bashir » 01 Mar 2019 09:30

I am curious about what our braveheart Abhinandan will face on his return. Pardon my ignorance but my questions are,

Are there any medals of honour due, how does this work?

Is he expected to return to duty, in what timeframes?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Mar 2019 09:31

Shaktimaan wrote:Saars, a poonch comes to mind.

Let's say that in the New Normal, India strikes at terrorist camps whenever there is any reason to do so (either as retaliation for a terrorist attack in India or actionable intelligence of high-value targets / imminent attacks). Right now the terrorist camps are on the LOC, just to the rear of the LOC/IB, and in Southern Pakjab. All within airstrike range.

What is stopping the NaPakis from simply moving the terrorist training camps hundreds of km inland, say for example into Balochistan?

paisa to feed them there and transport them from balochistan to indian border. And of course they had gotten away by doing all this it takes time. Where in balochistan, its a open area, indian sattelite will be pouring through it, unless of course they make them live through caves. Which again costs money and time. Not to forget that balochistan desert was their nuke testing grounds and there were tunnels with their nukes stored. Global powers might get worried with the two so close to it. Pakis being good boys wont of course do that. Else it will show that they dont have nukes or good wisdom over it.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2019 09:32

naird wrote:Folks - this may have been answered. Abhinandan was a Su 30 pilot, how come he was piloting Mig 21 ? I mean i have heard pilots graduating themselves to better machine but havent heard pilots getting re-assigned to fly older machines. Is this norm ?


Promotion , He might well be an ASTE Pilot or a Trainer for Bison or got promoted some other way

Winco Sahil Gandhi flew Su-30 for a long time before he moved to Surya Kiran

Most pilots who have spent a long time with Mig-21 love the aircraft as its a pilot aircrat and I know pilot who have flown Mig-29 and other types at ASTE and even deputed to fly Tejas as TP would want to go back and fly the Bison.

When I say its a pilot aircraft it does not mean it has great MMI or those sort that modern aircraft has but it allows you to fly the way a pilot wants provided he knows what he is doing , which means he needs to have great piloting Skill ( it challenges the pilot in a good way ) but if you do not know what you are doing it can kill the pilot , The Book Mig-21 in IAF for 50 years has great tribute to the aircraft from all the Ex and Present CAS who flew it

The Bison is a good upgrade with Kopyo Radar as good as Israel 2032 , Weapons , A2G capability and sensors and EW capability from DRDO and Israel plus HMD capability
Last edited by Austin on 01 Mar 2019 09:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby arun » 01 Mar 2019 09:34

Kashi wrote:Let us see how GoI handles the return. There are indeed chances of this becoming a spectacle. Captain wants to be present there himself when Wg Cmdr walk across. All political posturing plans are in place.


The wheel of our country acting with one will, irrespective of political inclinations, will do well with some greasing by way of sharing spectacle optics. Also Punjab State Chief Minister Captain Amarinder Singh, as an ex member of our Armed Forces and given his track record of supportive comments vis a vis taking a strong line against the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, is a good candidate to be present for Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman’s home coming . Off course that comedy show appearing person who says he feels he has more in common with Pakistani’s than fellow Indians from Southern India, Navjot Singh Sidhu, should not be allowed to be within a 10 Km radius of the event.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 01 Mar 2019 09:35

Julian_Bashir wrote:I am curious about what our braveheart Abhinandan will face on his return. Pardon my ignorance but my questions are,
Are there any medals of honour due, how does this work?
Is he expected to return to duty, in what timeframes?


He'll watch a lot of ST DS9. :wink:

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Julian_Bashir » 01 Mar 2019 09:36

:-) :-) :-) who can blame him, he can fly the Defiant in his mind

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 01 Mar 2019 09:39

Julian_Bashir wrote::-) :-) :-) who can blame him, he can fly the Defiant in his mind


I think he would prefer NCC-75633 over NX-74205.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby hanumadu » 01 Mar 2019 09:41

If Pakistan is so afraid that they are giving back Wing Co Abhinandan and closing their airspace, what prompted them to attack our military installations and a much revered temple? Is it a miscalculation or bravado or did they think GOI will back down by a show of strength?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 01 Mar 2019 09:41

khan wrote:To me the acid test to how comfortable Pakistan feels boils down to one simple question - is their air-space open?

As long as their air-space is closed, they are s**t scared of IAF and there is no peace - there is no deal.

Ignore PR, media, Pundits on the media and forms pontificating about nonsense (including my humble self :mrgreen:) - it is just noise. In the absence of an official statement, keep checking to see if Pakistani air-space is open.


According to this news-site, their airspace is supposed to have opened 3 hours ago. FlightRadar24 shows nothing in the air over Pakistan.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Mar 2019 09:42

^^what are these codes going on

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2019 09:43

Depends on his medical fitness ( an ejection can cause injury that may make a pilot unfit to fly fast aircraft like it happened with Nachiketa )

Nachi experences issue with his spine post ejection from 27 and he moved to Transport Squadron flew AN-32 and IL-78M refuller as Grp Captain and ten moved to Indigo

If Winco Abhinandan is fit and fine he will fly fast jets again

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Mar 2019 09:43

khan wrote:their airspace is supposed to have opened 3 hours ago. FlightRadar24 shows nothing in the air over Pakistan.

this is paki link. geo tv. More like their UK propaganda arm that makes pakis believe that they've arrived on world stage.
it seriously misses as what and where.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 01 Mar 2019 09:43

Well I gotta to contrast I'mRunnin Khan's urbane speech with Modi's droll 'that was a pilot project'. :rotfl:

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Mar 2019 09:45

Austin wrote:Depends on his medical fitness ( an ejection can cause injury that may make a pilot unfit to fly fast aircraft like it happened with Nachiketa )

Nachi experences issue with his spine post ejection from 27 and he moved to Transport Squadron flew AN-32 and IL-78M refuller as Grp Captain and ten moved to Indigo

If Winco Abhinandan is fit and fine he will fly fast jets again

i know someone indirectly who ejected from mig 23, and couldnt fly despite his lifelong passion.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 01 Mar 2019 09:47

Austin wrote:If Winco Abhinandan is fit and fine he will fly fast jets again

I'm not sure of this. Once you have your life spared by the 'enemy', it effects a change in the world view. He seems to be an exceptional warrior, but let us not put him in a dilemma.
Last edited by Rakesh on 01 Mar 2019 09:55, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please use quotes when responding. Thank You.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 01 Mar 2019 09:48

If Abhinandan & Co did not chase away the F-16s, they would have bombed our Army base. That would have been suicidal ..... for Pakistan. India would have just bombed them to stone age.

I recommend that both India & Pakistan give awards to Abhinandan. For saving Pakistan from annihilation

We give him a war medal. They give him a peace medal. Aman Ki Asha

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby habal » 01 Mar 2019 09:52

Mort, abhi will be handed over to red cross or Indian high commission who in turn will bring him over as they see fit. So this wagah border handover is the preference of IHC or RC and not pakistanis

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 01 Mar 2019 09:52

ArjunPandit wrote:
khan wrote:their airspace is supposed to have opened 3 hours ago. FlightRadar24 shows nothing in the air over Pakistan.

this is paki link. geo tv. More like their UK propaganda arm that makes pakis believe that they've arrived on world stage.
it seriously misses as what and where.

Yes, I know, but I figure one Pakistani source is as good as another for disbursing their Civil aviation announcements.

Looks like UZB428 is going to chance going over Pakistan - https://www.flightradar24.com/UZB428/1fa80557

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Julian_Bashir » 01 Mar 2019 09:53

ArjunPandit wrote:^^what are these codes going on


Mort is sharing his impressive knowledge :-)

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby harish_ch » 01 Mar 2019 09:54

I sincerely wish that this is not the end of our action. I am speaking from Modi ji's re-election point of view as we can't afford going back to spineless ,vision less leadership.

After the Balakot strike there was lot of Euphoria in my circle and lots of peace loving(pakis are our brothers types) were keeping low profile. But with the current turn of events these snakes are slowly building a crooked narrative that the pilot capture has brought a stalemate and that we are no better now than when Kandahar happened. I am thankful to all the Gurus here for their analysis that helps people like me understand the complexities of the situation. But in social media (twitter,fb, whatsapp) there is a sense of gloom. While many of my friends are relieved at the return of the Wing Co., this apparent de-escalation is hurting us.

Attacking our military installations is declaration of war and we shall pay them back in kind. We have to press our superiority over PAF and teach them a lesson they will not forget. I think we shall not relent now and we have to demand the handover of all the culprits behind Pulwama as a start. That should present us an opportunity.

-Harish

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Mar 2019 09:54

Reasi district is directly in the flight path to Srinagar and there are always flights in the air in daytime.
that is probably why our ROE did not allow for use of BVR weapons. civilian a/c are defenceless against feral BVR AAMs or SAMs as they have no IFF
immediately after the fight all airspace north of delhi was closed and ac put down at nearest airports.

http://services.jammu.gov.in/images/jammudivision.jpg

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 01 Mar 2019 09:55

Folks we are slipping and making this a nukkad. Focus don't drift.


Await the return of the warrior.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby shynee » 01 Mar 2019 09:59

Only seven people knew of the timing of air strike on Balakot - HT
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... VvOxL.html

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Mar 2019 10:00

tarek fatah was tweeting yesterday that PA units/paramils stationed in blochistan were withdrawn and moved toward the indian border.
so all those army formations, tanks etc being pulled out of depots and sent to the border is also a cost imposed on their creaky opex budget.

more we force them to do it the better. perhaps link up with various bandits in the sindhi desert and form a JV against the thinly held lines there...

sindh is their soft underbelly.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 01 Mar 2019 10:00

harish_ch wrote:I sincerely wish that this is not the end of our action. I am speaking from Modi ji's re-election point of view as we can't afford going back to spineless ,vision less leadership.

After the Balakot strike there was lot of Euphoria in my circle and lots of peace loving(pakis are our brothers types) were keeping low profile. But with the current turn of events these snakes are slowly building a crooked narrative that the pilot capture has brought a stalemate and that we are no better now than when Kandahar happened. I am thankful to all the Gurus here for their analysis that helps people like me understand the complexities of the situation. But in social media (twitter,fb, whatsapp) there is a sense of gloom. While many of my friends are relieved at the return of the Wing Co., this apparent de-escalation is hurting us.

Attacking our military installations is declaration of war and we shall pay them back in kind. We have to press our superiority over PAF and teach them a lesson they will not forget. I think we shall not relent now and we have to demand the handover of all the culprits behind Pulwama as a start. That should present us an opportunity.

-Harish




That is why it is imperative imagery of Balakot is released, plastic surgery type before and after pics. That will satisfy the jingos and give Pakistani incorrigibles pause. Release communications intercepts of the Pak fauj doing the headless chicken, satellite photos of the place swarming with uniforms. Show that the hospitals remained empty but the kabaristans were filled. (The hospitals were empty for the same reason they were empty after 9/11).

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby habal » 01 Mar 2019 10:01

Some years ago I saw a Mani Ratnam movie Kaatru Veliyidai. A few days ago I came to know the film was based upon Abhinandan's own love life. And his father was the main consultant for the movie.

In that movie taken couple of years ago, the hero (a combat pilot based in kashmir) marries a lady doctor in Indian airforce. And they have a turbulent relationship because the pilot is brash, full of testosterone and wants to charge at pakistan while his wife wants peace. The pilot is taken as PoW during one of his rash manouvres over enemy territory the plane crashes. He escapes enemy custody through guile and rejoins his wife somewhere in plains of ladakh where he meets his newborn daughter. They live happily ever after.

truth proceeds fiction.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ldev » 01 Mar 2019 10:03

Some observations:

In Balakot India has unshackled itself from 40 years of ill thought out restraint. But this cannot be a flash in the pan. Any future terrorist attack, even if it kills 1-2 persons in India should be met with swift retaliation. And future pre-emptive strikes must be on the table based on intelligence inputs.

The Pakistan version of events is being parroted by most western media i.e. two indian planes shot down and an Indian pilot captured. A few media outlets speak of the loss of 1 plane on either side. Pakistan appears to have a direct pipeline into these western media outlets. India has to counter this media blitz.

I think India has missed a golden opportunity here to escalate based on the PAF attack on Indian military assets. POWs are a fact of life when hostilities erupt, that is an integral part of joining the armed forces. Is India going to pause again in the future should another pilot be captured by Pakistan? It is asinine to have the country's escalation posture dependent on the presence or otherwise of POWs.

I do not know whether the IAF has the capability available to extract downed pilots specially if they are not very deep in enemy territory. In this instance, supposedly the parachute drifted across the LOC, so the pilot would have been a scant few kilometers in Pakistan. Such capability should be built up if it is not currently available.

Buy another 108 Rafales asap. Retire the MIG 21s and operationalize the Tejas to take it's place.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Mar 2019 10:05

Julian_Bashir wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:^^what are these codes going on


Mort is sharing his impressive knowledge :-)

thanks for sharing such informative things on a critical day. For a second i thought something with NCC, but it's even more important than that. realized the reference later on. I wonder why it is still not on BRF dictionary or member guidelines.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 01 Mar 2019 10:05

sanjaykumar wrote:
Austin wrote:If Winco Abhinandan is fit and fine he will fly fast jets again

I'm not sure of this. Once you have your life spared by the 'enemy', it effects a change in the world view. He seems to be an exceptional warrior, but let us not put him in a dilemma.


He has to be debriefed and medically examined. Get his take on the events which transpired and put it in the record. He knows very well who hit who. Also need to make sure he hasn't been poisoned or has been subjected to psychological manipulation.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Y. Kanan » 01 Mar 2019 10:06

Mort Walker wrote:
yensoy wrote:
Ok again my uninformed guess here. One reason for Pakis to curtail flying might be to conserve aviation fuel for air force use.

Though I think they will run out of planes before they run out of fuel.


Civil Aviation is afraid of SAMs. Thanks to the Russian based thugs in eastern Ukraine who shot down MH17 everyone in commercial aviation is scared and pissed off.


After losing several military aircraft to insurgent SAM’s, the Ukrainians started hiding behind civilian airliners. Not only did Kiev fail to route civilian air traffic around the area where their own aircraft were getting shot down regularly, they also flew military transports behind airliners, effectively daring the rebels to take a shot at them. The ploy worked beautifully. I’m sure Pakistan would gladly sacrifice a civilian airliner to gain a propaganda victory and make India look bad.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Ardeshir » 01 Mar 2019 10:09

Image
Shalwar browning still going on.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Mar 2019 10:10

shynee wrote:Only seven people knew of the timing of air strike on Balakot - HT
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... VvOxL.html


generally truth is best in the first few hours of any incident like this.

>> and Heron drones for photographing the targets after the attack

this clearly indicates that targets closer to the border ie muzaffarabad and chakothi were struck by same pkg. infact that morning either newsx or india today were showing details of strike1, strike2, strike3 with time windows starting from 3:45 and ending around 4:05

there is no way a heron drone can fly 100km into a alert TSP after the strike and photograph anything.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby partha » 01 Mar 2019 10:10

harish_ch wrote:Attacking our military installations is declaration of war and we shall pay them back in kind. We have to press our superiority over PAF and teach them a lesson they will not forget. I think we shall not relent now and we have to demand the handover of all the culprits behind Pulwama as a start. That should present us an opportunity.

-Harish

I wonder if we should have immediately escalated after this act of war. Now there is a mahaul of calm. I strongly believe India should escalate and keep up the pressure but if we escalate too late after this period of calm, India may risk coming across as an aggressor. The media spectacle around Wg Cmdr Abhinandan coming back and over analysis on what happened at Balakot may distract us from escalating and keeping up the pressure but I trust Govt to do the right thing. Let's see.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Mar 2019 10:12

if they were really conserving fuel, thats also a good data point. they have no strategic POL reserve, karachi port is their major tanker depot and can be set on fire as we wish ...... TOI published a graphic saying their POL target is 45 days on the books but usually hovers at 5-7 days. due to forex issues probably they are unable to buy in bulk.

a emergency meeting took place the morning after to safeguard all stocks and send it to armed forces.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Julian_Bashir » 01 Mar 2019 10:16

Singha wrote:if they were really conserving fuel, thats also a good data point. they have no strategic POL reserve, karachi port is their major tanker depot and can be set on fire as we wish ...... TOI published a graphic saying their POL target is 45 days on the books but usually hovers at 5-7 days. due to forex issues probably they are unable to buy in bulk.

a emergency meeting took place the morning after to safeguard all stocks and send it to armed forces.


I am sure they will beg for more from Saudi on more borrowed money to put them further in the red. If we do not escalate militarily, we should put the economic squeeze on at the minimum.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 01 Mar 2019 10:17

For future reference, here is the link to Pakistan's official Notice to Airmen, looks like they are going by UTC time, here are the two notices where they shut down their airspace:

Code: Select all

(A0200/19 NOTAMN
Q)OPXX/QRAXX///W/000/999/
A)OPKR OPLR
B)1902270730 C)1902282359 EST
E)PAKISTAN AIRSPACE IS CLOSED.)


which was replaced by:

Code: Select all

(A0207/19 NOTAMR A0200/19
Q)OPXX/QRAXX///W/000/999/
A)OPKR OPLR
B)1902281110 C)1903010800 EST
E)PAKISTAN AIRSPACE IS CLOSED.)


So, they shut it down for one day until midnight and then extended it one more day to 8AM UTC (which means it is closed for another 3 and a half hours). Let us see if it stays closed.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Mort Walker » 01 Mar 2019 10:18

Y. Kanan wrote:After losing several military aircraft to insurgent SAM’s, the Ukrainians started hiding behind civilian airliners. Not only did Kiev fail to route civilian air traffic around the area where their own aircraft were getting shot down regularly, they also flew military transports behind airliners, effectively daring the rebels to take a shot at them. The ploy worked beautifully. I’m sure Pakistan would gladly sacrifice a civilian airliner to gain a propaganda victory and make India look bad.


Sorry. It doesn't matter what the circumstances are. You don't shoot toward civilian aircraft under any circumstances. Period. The stoppage of commercial aviation in TSP frees up their SAMs to shoot at anything they don't recognize as it is likely to be Indian. They'll keep it up until it starts hurting. For the IAF, all they have to do is state that if TSP tries anything again, more terrorists are going to get hit from the air. Flights will stop again. There may also be several air carriers who on their own will avoid the region as much as possible whenever air traffic over TSP resumes.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Mar 2019 10:19

what i heard was 6PM today opening ceremony. so flights taking off now from western europe and far east would have to plan their mission accordingly early today morning...i dont think they will risk it today. tomorrow they might revert.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Karthik S » 01 Mar 2019 10:19

Why haven't we renewed our demands for handing over Hafiz, masood, dawoon, lakhvi? We could have said, hand over those, and we will work towards peace. Right now, nothing to make of yesterday's PC.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Singha » 01 Mar 2019 10:20

in same petroleum article i read that annual maintenance shutdown of their oil refineries has been deferred to may-june from mar-april


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