Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Y I Patel
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Y I Patel » 02 Mar 2019 05:58

How many times I have read in the 90’s, apropos F16 as Pakistan’s most reliable nuclear delivery vehicle, that “the bomber will always get through”.

Well, the bomber turned tail, was chased down, and got a 40 year old missile up its tail pipe courtesy a 38 year old pilot flying a fighter produced before he was born.

When it failed in stopping the bombing of Balakot, PAF landed in the doghouse. After Wing Co Abhi’s magnificent charge, PAF is beyond fcuked.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Nikhil T » 02 Mar 2019 06:23

banrjeer wrote:Our casualties are salaried professionals while theirs are not. So a thousand cuts has worked. They had a long term vision and they executed.

Engaging in a dog fight, POW exchanges, Conventional hostilities elevates their status as equals. A single war will never be enough to fix things, its just a tool.

There is a way to cause pain to 200 million in a "humane" way.

Squeeze their fuel, raise cost of doing business drive inflation etc. A sustained non-overt intermittent siege diven by intermittent unpredictable skirmishes lasting decades. 1000 cuts -> 100,000 suffocations.

Just got to be that unpredictable neurotic neighbour.


This is my conclusion too. All of PA-PTI actions (border violations, PAF raid, Abhinandan video) in the recent days were meant for their *domestic* audience, so that PA/PTI stay in the power. They clearly achieved no military objective. So, GoI has to search for ways of delivering continuous but painful jhapads, in addition to military and diplomatic options we're exercising. Both military and diplomatic options are expensive. After all, we need to acquire China specific military hardware, not just TSP specific. Similarly, we can't spend all of our diplomatic capital on adding TSP to FATF blacklist or Masood Azhar to UN sanctions. We need to preserve some some of our diplomatic capital for getting added to NSG and UNSC - the things that will actually help India's economic rise.

A couple of options for these continuous, painful, low cost jhapads are:
1. Sow discontent in the aam Abdul with key GoP programs e.g. start social media fires on the massive electricity rate hikes that TSP has been doing.
2. Farmer protests for key foreign funded projects - dams and CPEC land acquisition. Take a hint from Ford Foundation that kept the Narmada Bachao project from progressing for decades. Scare off the foreign investors.
3. Highly visible black flag waiving Baluch protests against Imran Khan during his overseas visits to UK or Massa.
4. Subsidizing Indian export sectors where Pakistan is the main competitor (e.g. ship breaking, textiles). Even a small step will impact their perilous forex reserves.

The overall point being that we've got to defend like we're in a 1000 year war - not just have one off confrontations. There should be no threshold for India to retaliate - it should be an always on thing.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Y I Patel » 02 Mar 2019 06:27

I am simply in awe of WingCo Abhi.

When I saw photos of him walking with blood on his face and arms pinned behind, I saw a chained lion. Defiance oozed out of every pore. He swaggered into captivity and diminished his captors with his lack of submission to pain, fear, and doubt.

This was before I found out how he got there in the first place, but now I realize that what he was conducting was a victory parade. He knew what he had achieved. He knew his deed would become legend. Any indignity the Paki scum inflicted would only go to burnish it further.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby dadhwal » 02 Mar 2019 06:28

Nikhil T wrote:
banrjeer wrote:...
The overall point being that we've got to defend like we're in a 1000 year war - not just have one off confrontations. There should be no threshold for India to retaliate - it should be an always on thing.


We should aim have a few canada's on to our west. Itna maro.. itna maaro .. ki woh SA waapis chaein jaaein apne abbu ke paas..

Yay! my first post.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Muns » 02 Mar 2019 06:37

Guys is been a roller coaster for the last couple of weeks. I think that all of us have been through quite a few emotions in between. Sometime last night I felt to write an article but really as a comparison of the Mirage aircraft over the bombing run to Balakot. Really more of a lay man article to compare the Mirage which I believe were really the original 2000 H with of course multiple modifications to carry the Spike PGM. Most likely it was still carrying the same litening pod I assume to have the Spike home into the target.

It was of course a fantastic set up to absolutely confuse the pakis into where the strike might take place. Odds are, it was still a high risk without the real upgrades of the Mirage upg. Still they managed to pull it off without a hitch.
So the article is really trying to attack Rahul on the Rafal in trying to show that if indeed a few Rafales were part of the mix, armed with the spectra ew suite it might have really been a much safer mission to achieve.

In any case, as said before a real Layman article to give a feel of what might be accomplished in the future with a few Rafales to lead the Mirage and of course attack Rahul on his agenda to try and kill the deal.
Please let me know what you think as well.

Rahul Gandhi’s Rafale ‘Mirage’

https://www.india-aware.com/opinion/rah ... le-mirage/

The Rafale itself has many advantages and improvements based upon the long serving history of the Mirage itself. This is especially true in the area of electronic warfare especially Suppression of enemy air defenses(SEAD) while heading such strike package into Pakistan. Its SPECTRA electronic warfare system allows for much higher survivability and success of such missions. The IAF concocted a brilliant plan with regard to a complete confusing air space before launching the 12 Mirage into Pakistan. However with the limited EW suite of the Mirage, in truth it seems that this was really a high-risk mission.

With the Rafale, such as strike package survivability would only have been enhanced in view of the electronic warfare systems that the Rafael possesses and the interoperability regarding data links between the Rafael and the Mirage.

The Rafale itself has taken the best of the Mirage even with the upgrades and taken the next step with even greater low observability, electronic warfare systems as well as higher survivability with two engines.


Over the last two years, the Congress under Rahul Gandhi has strived to constantly create a narrative of complete disinformation among the Indian public with regard to seeing corruption where there was none.

It is not just the French government, the CEO of Dassault, multiple IAF commanders, the Supreme Court of India and even the CAG who has seen no irregularities with the Rafale deal.

In fact, Rahul has even visited previous Defense Minister Manohar Parikkar while in the hospital and tried to use a sick man to strengthen his own warped agenda.

Not just this, but barely a day after the strike at Balakot, Rahul Gandhi led 21 opposition parties to give a press release against the ruling NDA and BJP government.

So much so that in the Pakistani media showed the same clips to highlight the disunity of the opposition parties to the ruling government decision to promote the strike as well. It seems that the ruling political party does not only have to worry about fighting Pakistanis on the border but also trying to fight a propaganda war among Indians itself who are helping the same Pakistanis.

If anything, the above strike on Balakot should reinforce the necessity of the Rafale to the Armed Forces including highly interoperability between the Rafael and the Mirage.


www.india-aware.com

www.youtube.com/c/indiaaware

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Sanju » 02 Mar 2019 06:41

Muns, well done. May I have your email address please?

Alternatively drop an email to sanjuyyz at the rate chacha mail dot calm. Let me know here and I will edit my post.
Last edited by Sanju on 02 Mar 2019 06:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 02 Mar 2019 06:42

Diwali @ loc?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sanjaykumar » 02 Mar 2019 06:43

Nah, their ghazwa e hind lasted less than an hour.

India should reach for a place where it is willing to mediate between Afghanistan and Pakistan on drawing a border at Attock, with Baluchistan and Pakistan on the terms of decolonisation, between Pakistani Sunnis and Shias to partition their country, and to ensure Ahmadiyya have equal rights to masjids.

India needs to outsource conflict and ensure human rights of the oppressed peoples of Pakistan. Keep a strong military but use it to intervene for the dispossessed, like East Pakistanis. I am sure Baluchistan will have a higher standard of living than Laputa within 5 to 10 years if they regain ownership of their resources. Unbelievable but they have Bangladesh as a model.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Sumair » 02 Mar 2019 06:47

I’m I the only one perturbed by the fact that everyone fully knew that an aerial attack was imminent from Pakistan, yet they were not only able to ingress deep into Indian Air Space but were also able to drop their payload a the target of their choosing.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 02 Mar 2019 06:55

Multiple tweets asking for people to donate blood in Occupied Kashmir especially around Kotli. Massive a$$ whupping is being delivered by IA at LoC.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Sanju » 02 Mar 2019 06:56

Sumair wrote:I’m I the only one perturbed by the fact that everyone fully knew that an aerial attack was imminent from Pakistan, yet they were not only able to ingress deep into Indian Air Space but were also able to drop their payload a the target of their choosing.


Err deep into Indian Airspace? At 900 km/h approximate?

We need some perspective on it. Flying at that speed, changing direction and when challenged turning tail and running. They would have covered the 5 kms in 20 secs, flying at that speed. Chill bud, we are in extremely good hands.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby rgosain » 02 Mar 2019 06:57

Sumair wrote:I’m I the only one perturbed by the fact that everyone fully knew that an aerial attack was imminent from Pakistan, yet they were not only able to ingress deep into Indian Air Space but were also able to drop their payload a the target of their choosing.

Good point.
Certainly the figure of 24 PAF vs 8 IAF is troubling, but this is a consequence of a decade of UPA rule where the IAF strength and capability were deliberately degraded so that the IAF would not be in a position to carry out the kind of missions that it needs to do eg after the Mumbai carnage.
You can see why young Rahul is against the Rafale.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 02 Mar 2019 06:59

Sumair wrote:I’m I the only one perturbed by the fact that everyone fully knew that an aerial attack was imminent from Pakistan, yet they were not only able to ingress deep into Indian Air Space but were also able to drop their payload a the target of their choosing.


I think you should reconsider your definition of deep. The maximum their plane (single plane from a formation of about 12 or more) intruded was 3km and these are jets that fly that distance in approx a second or two. The rest were chased away (by only 8 of ours) while they were WITHIN their "airspace" (over occupied Indian territory that we called PoJK)

The single jet that DID intrude, did not as much drop its payload at a place of its choosing as it JETTISONED its payload in its haste to escape.

To preserve their Echh&Dee, the Bakis did two things
1. In their briefings they claimed that their jets dropped the bombs from WITHIN their territory.
2. The bombs were not meant to attack but only to demonstrate capability. :roll: Yeh right.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Anujan » 02 Mar 2019 07:05

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/radar-imagery-confirms-4-buildings-in-jaish-madrasa-were-hit-official-5607623/

Sources said that intelligence agencies have evidence, in the form of imagery from Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR), showing that the four buildings, identified as targets, were hit by five S-2000 precision-guided munition (PGM) fired from IAF’s Mirage-2000 fighter jets.


Most probably from RISAT?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 02 Mar 2019 07:06

rgosain wrote:
Sumair wrote:I’m I the only one perturbed by the fact that everyone fully knew that an aerial attack was imminent from Pakistan, yet they were not only able to ingress deep into Indian Air Space but were also able to drop their payload a the target of their choosing.

Good point.
Certainly the figure of 24 PAF vs 8 IAF is troubling, but this is a consequence of a decade of UPA rule where the IAF strength and capability were deliberately degraded so that the IAF would not be in a position to carry out the kind of missions that it needs to do eg after the Mumbai carnage.
You can see why young Rahul is against the Rafale.


Young? On what planet?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Sanju » 02 Mar 2019 07:08

I read it as Sarcasm saar!

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Anant » 02 Mar 2019 07:10

It's Diwali time on the line of control. Kaboom.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Vamsi_V » 02 Mar 2019 07:17

India attending OIC as chief guest while Pakistan boycotting it, is a diplomatic coup.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 02 Mar 2019 07:19

Anant wrote:It's Diwali time on the line of control. Kaboom.


Confirmed?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 02 Mar 2019 07:25

1) Sumair..24 vs 8 is not troubling... u cant have so many planes in air all the time. Elelment of surprise can always be sprung..to collect 24 over a few seconds, create some diversion and a few make a shallow ingress over LC is nothing v spl. How many times a day can PAF put 24 planes together ? dont be childish. I am impressed that we had 8 in air and we chased them 2) today morning is calm in the skies above. just occasional noise. 3) just curious .. is there any way India can make it risky for shipping to use Karachi port short of blockade/war??

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 02 Mar 2019 07:27

Raveen wrote:
Anant wrote:It's Diwali time on the line of control. Kaboom.


Confirmed?

By multiple Pakistais, requests for blood donations, news of loud speayasking people to move out etc

Modiji ek-ek kar ke screw tight kar rahe hain. :lol:
Last edited by Katare on 02 Mar 2019 07:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby salaam » 02 Mar 2019 07:27

We are popular. See screenshot of brf:
https://twitter.com/homesecpak/status/1 ... 22144?s=21

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby SriKumar » 02 Mar 2019 07:29

^^^ THe twitter handle you linked to says: Pakistan ZIndabad. It is a Pakistani guy's website (must have been one of 100s of guests who showed up....I can imagine that some ready shady, two-bit characters also come to read this website, as a guest.).
Last edited by SriKumar on 02 Mar 2019 07:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby souravB » 02 Mar 2019 07:31

#Kotli is trending on twitter that we are using long range artillery. People even said we have used short ranged mizziles.
If by rule of thumb truth is somewhere in the middle, I'd say we are using 52 caliber artillery as well as pinaka.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Suraj » 02 Mar 2019 07:32

Sumair wrote:I’m I the only one perturbed by the fact that everyone fully knew that an aerial attack was imminent from Pakistan, yet they were not only able to ingress deep into Indian Air Space but were also able to drop their payload a the target of their choosing.

You’re not really doing the math here . Consider
* the length of the border north to south
* number of aircraft , SAM coverage area
* distance of bases from coverage area
* identification to reaction time
* time taken to ingress X km at speed

‘We knew they’d come so how did they get in ?’ Is a very superficially considered argument .

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Sanju » 02 Mar 2019 07:33

salaam wrote:We are popular. See screenshot of brf:
https://twitter.com/homesecpak/status/1 ... 22144?s=21


That blog has a flying rat on its emblem/insignia...maybe a Ganesha bhakt.
Last edited by Sanju on 02 Mar 2019 07:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 02 Mar 2019 07:34

Katare wrote:Multiple tweets asking for people to donate blood in Occupied Kashmir especially around Kotli. Massive a$$ whupping is being delivered by IA at LoC.

Please be very suspicious of Twitter noise without corroborating evidence in other reliable media. This could be another “please save us from warmongering Indians” Psy-Ops operation.

Added later: And think about the odds of there being educated Baki’s in a border area with a Twitter account to boot.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Thakur_B » 02 Mar 2019 07:35

Use of MBRL rumoured. Massive shalwar browning over the skies of Poonjab Border, Pindi, Le-whore, Pisslamabad and Karachi.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Anant » 02 Mar 2019 07:36

The video I saw on twitter looked like light machine gun tracer fire and artillery. Didn't look like a pinaka or a smerch battery door to the frequency of ordinance.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Haridas » 02 Mar 2019 07:36

R77 Vs AMRAAM. Some pessimists saying what Pork has is perfect and what India has R77 on Su30MKI are not perfect and Russia is deliberately not given us good ones.

Answer: The BVRs are only as good as the radar that initially cues it the target vector (+ mid course update) and more importantly the terminal seeker in the BVR. The RF seeker in these class of missiles use millimeter waver radar. Russian electronics and DSP is not as ECM resistant. Some of these missile have optional multi-spectral optical/IR seeker,a gain the Russians are not as good.

But I am doubtful that the Paki F16 block50 or later even have ECCM against mm wave. India however has demonstrated ECCM against AMRAM as evidenced by IAF in the press conf 2 days ago. Not sure all IAF platforms has that ECCM hardware.

Akash is == best in trade.
I hope BDL rushes those Astra missiles they are assembling. Contract was for 50 missiles. I know a batch was delivered for last Astra test; Vayu Shakti 2019 was from this new production lot.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Raveen » 02 Mar 2019 07:38

Anant wrote:The video I saw on twitter looked like light machine gun tracer fire and artillery. Didn't look like a pinaka or a smerch battery door to the frequency of ordinance.


Got a link?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Anujan » 02 Mar 2019 07:39

Strangely the IE article was cut off.

We have evidence in the form of SAR imagery to show that a building used as a guest house, where brother of Maulana Masood Azhar used to stay; an L-shaped building where trainers used to stay; a double-storied building used to house students entering the seminary and another building where those undergoing final combat training used to stay, were hit by the bombs,” an official told The Indian Express.


As UBNN predicted quite a few along with their goats seem to have gotten their 72.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 02 Mar 2019 07:39

Sumair wrote:I’m I the only one perturbed by the fact that everyone fully knew that an aerial attack was imminent from Pakistan, yet they were not only able to ingress deep into Indian Air Space but were also able to drop their payload a the target of their choosing.

er.. they (ONE of them) penetrated a grand total of 3km And both of those pilots died - OK they were killed by their own people, but die they did.
At transonic speed, you are going about 960 km per hour. Even if you blow the plane apart at the border, parts are going to fall 3km inside. What more do you expect? A Diwaar-e-Trump extending from the ground to 60,000 feet?
Pakistan Air Force has failed miserably. Shows that the only way Pakistan can attack is via cowardly terrorists.
My fear is something else.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Karan M » 02 Mar 2019 07:40

Y I Patel wrote:I am simply in awe of WingCo Abhi.

When I saw photos of him walking with blood on his face and arms pinned behind, I saw a chained lion. Defiance oozed out of every pore. He swaggered into captivity and diminished his captors with his lack of submission to pain, fear, and doubt.

This was before I found out how he got there in the first place, but now I realize that what he was conducting was a victory parade. He knew what he had achieved. He knew his deed would become legend. Any indignity the Paki scum inflicted would only go to burnish it further.


Received on WhatsApp all credits to the original author.

As children we all read that famous exchange between Porus and Alexander. Porus fights Alexander's army to a brutal stalemate, despite losing his sons, finally succumbing to a wound himself. Captured, he is brought before Alexander and asked, how would you like to be treated. Like a king, Porus replied. Unbroken, defiant.

Next, Alexander's men rebel when told they have to cross into India proper, and an army many times the size of that of Porus is waiting for them. More men like this one, they exclaim? That's the end of Alexander's invasion of India. Of course, the Greek version. In ours, we actually deduce Porus won and stopped Alexander then and there itself.

Today, Abhinandan was that king standing proud in front of the Pakistan Army, reminding them of defiance and courage against overwhelming odds, having won an incredible victory. And in his inimitable way, reflective of a long standing tradition of martial valor, he has defended India as well.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Manish_Sharma » 02 Mar 2019 07:42

UlanBatori wrote:My fear is something else.


Nukes smuggled in via terrorists?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby khan » 02 Mar 2019 07:43

khan wrote:
Katare wrote:Multiple tweets asking for people to donate blood in Occupied Kashmir especially around Kotli. Massive a$$ whupping is being delivered by IA at LoC.

Please be very suspicious of Twitter noise without corroborating evidence in other reliable media. This could be another “please save us from warmongering Indians” Psy-Ops operation.

Added later: And think about the odds of there being educated Baki’s in a border area with a Twitter account to boot.


Not sure how credible this is, but here is some corroboration: http://delhidefencereview.com/2019/03/0 ... f-control/

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Katare » 02 Mar 2019 07:43


shaun
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby shaun » 02 Mar 2019 07:45

Anujan wrote:https://indianexpress.com/article/india/radar-imagery-confirms-4-buildings-in-jaish-madrasa-were-hit-official-5607623/

Sources said that intelligence agencies have evidence, in the form of imagery from Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR), showing that the four buildings, identified as targets, were hit by five S-2000 precision-guided munition (PGM) fired from IAF’s Mirage-2000 fighter jets.


Most probably from RISAT?
RISAT pairs are long dead!! The newer ones are yet to be lunched or we might have already put them on orbit using foreign vehicles which too unlikely given the sensitive nature of the payloads.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 02 Mar 2019 07:46

a point which is missed ... for all those tomtoming for Kartarpur corridor... the PAF pilot who was beaten to death was mistaken for a sikh with his beard... Pakis have no love lost for Sikhs... this Kartarpur corridor is only to revivie khalistan movement. I hope this point is highlighted.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby salaam » 02 Mar 2019 07:47

Listen to audio clip in this tweet.

https://twitter.com/culpritpak/status/1 ... 10592?s=21

Maulana Ammar, younger brother of Maulana Masood Azhar speaks at “Talba” convention on February 28 at Peshawar on the Balakot strike by India.

They are hurting bad...


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