Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 03 Mar 2019 00:59

There are many people both inside India and out that believe the Balakot strike did not hit the intended target. Although from a strategic sense the bombing was successful because the message is clear that India will strike back if hit by terrorists, but from an operational sense it appears that it was not to the outside world. To refute this IMHO, the GoI will have to put some evidence in the public domain. In any case, IMO large scale terrorist strikes may not happen in the near future.

I am disappointed this didn’t go further by hitting TSP RATS command HQ after the PAF crosses the LoC.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Mar 2019 01:00

disha wrote:I already had flagged NatSecJeff three (3) days back. NatSecJeff already caused enough of damage naively aided by our own!

khan wrote:FYI, that NatSecJeff guy is a Baki asset, who is mixing lies & disinformation with just enough truth to sound credible.

Indian army just falgged a fake Baki account who was pinging NatSecJeff.

NatSecJeff works for "ITCT is an int'l think tank countering the narratives of #IslamistTerrorism, providing in-depth research reports & consultancy services."

ITCT is "Islamic Theology of Counter Terrorism".
https://www.itct.org.uk

The Advisory Board Members:
Ken Pennington: retired Superintendent Police, Northern Ireland and an independent consultant on policing, counter-terrorism and human rights

Asher Ben Artzi: retired Chief Superintendent of Israeli Police and is the former director of INTERPOL of the Israel National Police (INP).

Khalid Muhammad: Director General of Command Eleven, a security and defence think tank in Pakistan.

The Management Team:

Mr. Noor Dahri is the Founder and Executive Director of ITCT. Noor was born and raised in Pakistan.
Faran Jeffery Deputy Director & Head of South Asia Desk - (Pakistan)

--- a Pakistan-fronted organization.

PS: @Iyerval -- Abhijit Iyer-Mitra appears to be agreeable with NatSecJeff, so wondering what the basis of their credibility with him is.

PPS: an article by Mr. Noor Dahri
https://www.itct.org.uk/archives/itct_a ... -terrorism

naruto · Post by **naruto** » 03 Mar 2019 01:17

^^^ That @Iyyerval couple of minutes called Tejas fighter as “shit” when someone asked why it wasn’t used in operation. That guy is a pompous turd.

disha · Post by **disha** » 03 Mar 2019 01:24

^Iyerval is either trying to be too smart by half in an attempt to fool the baki and inveigle some information OR just angry and clueless because of his recent incarceration in Orissa. Either way, Iyerval is out of his depth on this one.

Thanks for digging the dirt A'gupta'ji on natsecjeff. That twitter handle (and its many hydra copies) has been pasted and wasted now.

PS: My humble request - Anybody quoting NatSecJeff as gospel must be summarily banned.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 03 Mar 2019 01:37

Iyerval has his strengths - war-gaming. But he is now pontificating on all military matters like some kind of expert. There was an interview of him with pgurus (Sree Iyer), where he was happily mixing fact with fiction. When referencing Kargil, he mixed up Sq Ldr Ahuja with Capt Saurabh Kalia. There were a couple of other gaffes too. And he speaks with a British accent which irritates me no end.

Someone needs to tear him a new one, one of these days

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Mar 2019 01:42

To refute this IMHO, the GoI will have to put some evidence in the public domain. In any case, IMO large scale terrorist strikes may not happen in the near future. I am disappointed this didn’t go further by hitting TSP RATS command HQ after the PAF crosses the LoC.

This is the standard "ur bombs are fizzles" tactic to MAKE India release more info. India should **NOT** fall into this trap. The initial damage assessment was spot-on and stands, as far as I am concerned. 700 terrorists seen to congregate - ground intel, maybe satellite intel. 3:45AM strike.
Poof! No buildings, no life.
Conclusion: 700 dead. Good enough for me.
Let's turn this around: What evidence have these sh1ts provided that the Indian response was **NOT** effective? Have they brought the 700 terrorists to face the camera and testify that they were buggering goats all day and night and there was no air raid? Would be interesting if they did...
Have they visited the "resort" and taken pictures? If not, why not? Area cordoned off?

Time to call them what are: Terrorist-supporting traitors. Lamp-post weights.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Mar 2019 01:50

I think Iyerval act too smart at time but is not "put India down" to gain brownie point with gora or to sound cool amongst the self delusional libs. He does make an occasional mistake but that can be overlooked. Happens to the best.

The mistake that some of our Indian friends on twitter made was to focus on proving an F-16 went down and getting bogged down. Instead they should have turned the table by focusing on the multiple ejections clearly recorded by the bakis and asked them what where they hiding while hammering home ISPR's change of story.

That would have had the same result but the bakis defending and Indians attacking (asking relentless questions) till the truth came out. Ultimately would have leads to the F-16 and the downed baki pilot.

Objective achieved but in a round about way. A matter of tactics.

souravB · Post by **souravB** » 03 Mar 2019 01:53

Mort Walker wrote:
My discussion was about the Balakot strike not the dogfight downing the F-16. The Microsat R AFIK is not radar imaging.

The R-sat images will only be out in public domain after a few years at least. GoI wouldn't want to publicize our capability in radar imagery from space to people. That will be detrimental.
<rant>But considering our leaky MoD, I would give a few weeks before those super secret images find it's way to IT group/ Times Now group. We would never produce a WikiLeaks, we already have our MSM.</rant>

^^Abhijit Iyer-Mitra has the sarcasm of a Bong and the pride of a TamBram. He has his strengths in analysis, defense matters are not his suit. I had an interaction with him regarding Rafale, and unsurprisingly he was going by articles in MSM/brochuritis and not his own analysis or facts.
But for all his shortcomings, he means well and atleast reasonable when presented with facts to change his perception.

AshishA · Post by **AshishA** » 03 Mar 2019 01:55

anishns wrote:https://wnobserver.com/asia/india-to-fa ... laims/amp/

So apparently LM is going to file a lawsuit against our claim of downing an F16.
Lol

It's fake news. LM has refuted this.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 03 Mar 2019 01:59

khan wrote:
abhik wrote:Looks like there is going to be no overt response to the Paki air raid, which IMO is a neutral, if not positive outcome for the PAF. Of course you may disagree, but the only argument that can be made is that we won the pisscological war which has its limits - You can always wash your browned shalwar, tomorrow is another day onlee.
Why do you say that?

The pakies responded the very next day, if we were going to retaliate we would have done it already, the situation had been "de-escalated" now. Initially the political leadership was tight lipped - most of us took that as an indication that a bigger jhappad was in the works. The PM not coming out and stating that the Pakistani air raid was basically declaration of (conventional) war at that time has now has given the leaway to cool things down.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Mar 2019 02:01

Can there be any doubt now? I tend to believe my own lying eyes, but there is tiny probability that I'm misinterpreting these images, so BRF gurus?

Memorialized on my blog: https://observingliberalpakistan.blogsp ... after.html

PS: Removed the images. They are available at the blog link above. John pointed out below, and I went and verified, that Zoom Earth high-res images are undated - they are from Bing Maps and "Dates for Bings Maps imagery can’t be determined", per Zoom Earth.

Thanks, John!

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Mar 2019 02:03

PM is quite so things are now normal and will be normal till they again become abnormal. It is cyclical but that is OK.

BTW, One complain opposition has always had with Modi is that he does not speak on important occasions. That too is ok because it is his style.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Mar 2019 02:04

A_Gupta wrote:Can there be any doubt now? I tend to believe my own lying eyes, but there is tiny probability that I'm misinterpreting these images, so BRF gurus?

We are trying too hard. We should leave it be. Just look at the shadow in the 2nd enlarged image and think.

I believe our IAF and that is the end of it as far as I am concerned.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Mar 2019 02:08

Khalid Muhammad: Director General of Command Eleven, a security and defence think tank in Pakistan.

Command Eleven's website https://www.commandeleven.com is conveniently down for "design revisions and maintenance". One can find a bit of it in Wayback Machine from January, Feb 2019,
e.g.,
https://web.archive.org/web/20181030132657/https://www.commandeleven.com/

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Mar 2019 02:09

BTW, in response of the ISPR video release of our Pilot with multiple edit someone from India has released his own video of Dimrans address to their Parliament.

https://twitter.com/erbmjha/status/1101791637888352256

BALA @erbmjha

India's reply to Pakistan's heavily edited video of Abhinandan

Check out the embedded, like and re-tweet.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2019 02:10

naruto wrote:^^^ That @Iyyerval couple of minutes called Tejas fighter as “shit” when someone asked why it wasn’t used in operation. That guy is a pompous turd.

Internet era celebrity, he and that Angad Singh and even Aroor to an extent. The last is at least an accredited journo and has improved over the years from being one of Coupta's acolytes. Each one quotes the other as India's finest defense analyst.

souravB · Post by **souravB** » 03 Mar 2019 02:12

A_Gupta wrote:--snip--

Unwashed abdul here but the after image looks like a construction site pic. no scorch marks, crater, broken concrete, destruction or damage to nearby constructs.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2019 02:13

"Faran Jeffery Deputy Director & Head of South Asia Desk - (Pakistan)"

Sounds suspiciously like Farhan Jaffri.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2019 02:14

souravB wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:--snip--
Unwashed abdul here but the after image looks like a construction site pic. no scorch marks, crater, broken concrete, destruction or damage to nearby constructs.

Yes exactly. The pillars have been erected. Roof is yet to be installed.

John · Post by **John** » 03 Mar 2019 02:15

A_Gupta wrote:Can there be any doubt now? I tend to believe my own lying eyes, but there is tiny probability that I'm misinterpreting these images, so BRF gurus?

Memorialized on my blog: https://observingliberalpakistan.blogsp ... after.html

Balakot, before and after.

We already discussed it zoom.earth images are very old not sure why people keep saying it if Mar 2nd, it is not as up to date as google earth. The images it shows of areas I am familiar with are 3-6 years dated where as google earth is 1 year behind.

What is interesting is it confirms complex was built up about 2+ years ago.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 03 Mar 2019 02:15

A_Gupta wrote:Can there be any doubt now? I tend to believe my own lying eyes, but there is tiny probability that I'm misinterpreting these images, so BRF gurus?

Memorialized on my blog: https://observingliberalpakistan.blogsp ... after.html

Balakot, before and after.
First, the source:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4eIRqVN4_CQ/ ... 7%2BPM.png

Following in those footsteps, two screenshots I took:

Google Earth, April 24, 2018
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ItB3YBB0fR8/ ... 9%2BPM.png

Zoom Earth, March 2, 2018
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sZJZPL1GJBE/ ... 5%2BPM.png

The "Zoom Earth, March 2, 2018" is an older image (Probably when the building was being constructed) - this has been debunked already I think.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Mar 2019 02:16

Khalid Muhammad: Director General of Command Eleven, a security and defence think tank in Pakistan.

Arabnews.com news-item from May 31, 2018
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1313181/world

“The possibility of Durrani being court martialed is very high,” said Khalid Mohammed, director general of the Islamabad-based think tank Command Eleven, which works closely with the armed forces.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2019 02:18

disha wrote:
Schmidt wrote:NDTV Srinivasan Jain with a panel including Ajai Shukla and C Unfair dissing the IAF , that they missed the targets at Balakote and caused no damage
C Unfair laughs derisively at the gentleman representing the air force

I don't understand the depravity of NDTV and Ajai Shukla , at taking pleasure in running down their own country
Agree on depravity., but why watch rNDTV & give them oxygen? Get rid of thatt channel if you are subscribing.

Some of our veterans are unfortunately completely unaware of the manner in which certain channels push a certain agenda, or because they themselves believed in over the top "==" balance, compulsively give these 2 bit anchors the time of the day. Now such incidents come across as a bad taste in the mouth, but perhaps they'll wake up.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Mar 2019 02:20

It is beyond hilarious to claim that LM would file a LAWSUIT about a war claim. Pakis are getting REALLY desperate, hain?
Guptaji, great shots. Glad to see that the goat-sheds at the perimeter are intact: shows the compassionate nature of IAF targeting. what are the vertical posts left on the bldg just above the bottom structure? That seems to have had a pucca sloped roof in the Before image... Shadow indicates that the concrete floor seen in planform is the roof of the ground floor which is still standing. On the bigger bldg (top) it looks like only walls and columns are left.

Color difference bothered me, but upper is April with greenery, while bottom is end of winter, all brown like Imran's pajamas. Makes sense.

Bldg at bottom had two rectangular black slots(?) which were oblong, with vertical dimension > horizontal. In bottom the roof is gone but the corresponding things have horizontal > vertical. This appears to have been a sort of "center-open" construction a la Malloostan "Nadu-Muttam" but I can't figure out how the shape changed between floor and roof.

I don't see any "pockmarked with craters". Round things are likely shallow graves or pits into which rubble was dumped.

Surprised that the Pakis did not think of just putting up tents to cover the area, but then that would have given it away. Anyway I imagine that RAA already has enough ground-level images.

But I have a pooch: In the top image there is a white road shown (or is it marked in the image?) The bottom image shows only a bare earth ground there.

Looks like a whole lot of tractors have cleared the rubble and buried the body parts off the area in a hurry b4 the bottom image was taken.

Added later: Shouldn't March 2, 2018 be March 2, 2019?

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 03 Mar 2019 02:20

Mort Walker wrote:There are many people both inside India and out that believe the Balakot strike did not hit the intended target. Although from a strategic sense the bombing was successful because the message is clear that India will strike back if hit by terrorists, but from an operational sense it appears that it was not to the outside world. To refute this IMHO, the GoI will have to put some evidence in the public domain. In any case, IMO large scale terrorist strikes may not happen in the near future.

I am disappointed this didn’t go further by hitting TSP RATS command HQ after the PAF crosses the LoC.

One has to define exactly what one means by the "Outside World" and define which, if any, components of this entity have opinions important enough to warrant correction or refutation by India.

1) IAF knows what happened in the Balakot strike. TSPA, ISI &JeM know it too.
2) Most people inside India will believe their Armed Forces (except the small % who are a lost cause no matter what they are shown as evidence).
3) People outside India are irrelevant. Governments outside India and Pakistan (the ones that matter, anyway) will have their own ways of determining what happened.

This being the case, it is a fool's errand to release "evidence" to try and convince those who may remain unconvinced.

Any type of evidentiary data we make public will, inevitably, reveal things about our capacity to gather such data, our military operating procedures, and a whole lot more classified information that intelligence professionals will be able to extract by close observation & deduction.

That in and of itself will be more injurious to us than the highly questionable "upside" of convincing those of the "outside world" who do not and cannot know what happened.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2019 02:27

Y I Patel wrote:The Pulwama thread is very educative when read in hindsight. I had made a few drab remarks then:

War is unpredictable, but public humiliation of Paki military will have very pleasing domino effects.

A week earlier if someone had said that IAF should bomb a few terrorist camps and then sit back and repel counter attacks, that prescription would have been dismissed as being wimpy. Less than a bum tickle if I may borrow a phrase.

Yet this is all it took to ruin the reputation of Pakistan’s MOST revered institution - PAF. Understand this - Pakis fear their Army, but they worship PAF because of the mythology built up around it. All it took to destroy decades of carefully nurtured fantasy was one lion hearted pilot flying a lovingly maintained museum piece.

I am not sure that has happened yet YIP, as Pakistanis are adept at lying to themselves and the PAF is also adept at lying to everyone and I wish NaMo had allowed a proper retaliation to happen, war or no war. An AFB wrecked in a retaliatory strike would have been proper humiliation, the kind that couldn't be hidden. Burning airframes, smoke etc.

I remain hopeful. The "pilot project" quip and then the meeting with Nirmala M'am and Jaitley.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2019 02:27

Klaus wrote:
pankajs wrote: These farts are written to unsettle folks like you and me who look up to the goras for the *truth*. There was one famous Indian handle who wrote on twitter as much ... some thing to the effect "I don't rely on the Indian or the Baki accounts .. Give me some dope BBC/CNN"
IMO it was Nikhil wagle who still posts here afaik

What, when, where?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2019 02:31

A_Gupta wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:
No. It is effectively over. Samjhauta Express resumes tomorrow on Sunday March 3rd.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 231815.cms
The whole point is that India didn't suspend anything prior to striking Balakot; i.e., seeming normalcy will not keep India from retaliating for terrorist attacks. Pakistan knows from its own behavior whether it is safe to re-open its air space, resume trains and LoC trade, etc.

I think if India is confident in its own intelligence that sufficient damage has been inflicted it will not act again soon, so all these stories that the Indian bombing failed are really not in the cause of peace, they're really incitement for more strikes -- assuming that India pays any attention to them. The West is busy trying to help save Pakistani "face", as it always does.

Well said.

There are 2 elements to Indian deterrence.

Beating Pak up in front of its own people ---> PA/PAF/PN mythos busted
Inflicting real damage to the respective targets -----> Deterring the actual strike elements

We have to do both on a consistent basis.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 03 Mar 2019 02:32

While most of us are cheering with disbelief that F16 was shot down by Mig 21, international reporting from BBC to Wapo is that India's 2 jets were shot down, a pilot taken captive and no loss on side of Pakistan (since they disowned their own pilot) , world in general believes India was side which lost.
Either our communication was not at par or Wapo et al want to believe Pakistan no matter what.
Still case is open, and now when US has asked Pakistan to explain F16 use in area not designated, India can propagate it well, having said if US states Pakistan didn't lose any F16 it is blowback.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 03 Mar 2019 02:33

https://www.opindia.com/2019/03/narendr ... r-is-good/

PM Modi said that today, the country has experienced the lack of Rafale fighter jets. “If we had Rafale, the outcome (of the February 26 air strikes on terror camps in Pakistan followed by Pakistan’s retaliatory airspace violation attacking India’s military installations) might have been different. Because of politics on Rafale, India has lost.”

Apparently said this at the India Today Conclave, haven't watched the video - don't know what to make out of this though.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Mar 2019 02:34

Karan M wrote:We have to do both on a consistent basis.

Well said Karan. More terrorist strikes = More retaliation. That message has now been given to Pakistan.

This will be unsustainable for Pakistan in the long run.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Mar 2019 02:35

abhik wrote:https://www.opindia.com/2019/03/narendr ... r-is-good/
PM Modi said that today, the country has experienced the lack of Rafale fighter jets. “If we had Rafale, the outcome (of the February 26 air strikes on terror camps in Pakistan followed by Pakistan’s retaliatory airspace violation attacking India’s military installations) might have been different. Because of politics on Rafale, India has lost.”
Apparently said this at the India Today Conclave, haven't watched the video - don't know what to make out of this though.

More Rafales are coming. He is stating what the Air Force has told him. Especially after reading the end user agreement that Pakistan has with the US, who in the IAF would want to touch American fighters? The F-16 is gone. Once you eliminate the F-18, which other OEM can provide what the Rafale does for both the Air Force and the Navy?

Even with the F-18, what can it do that the Rafale cannot?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2019 02:37

I invite you all to read the news on the date Parrikar had the LCA ordered. Almost 40 odd newspapers including this BeeB correspondent ran identical headlines stating "obsolete jet forced on India's military" etc. It was coordinated to the max. I can assure you all these left leaning journos maintain their prvte whatsapp etc groups and coordinate when given orders by the palm. No further explanation required.

nandakumar wrote:
anishns wrote:That Soutik BiswAAS c****tiya mc bc India correspondent from BBC has done a piece on Modi vs Khan - who won the propaganda. Read only if you don’t have high BP issues. I don’t want to post the link here. Damn these urban naxal have deep widespread connections

In contrast the slumbad correspondent has done a piece which portrays Pakis as angels.

Alas!
The way it works is something like this. BBC asks its Islamabad correspondent to report on the air strike. Now in Pak eyes this didnt happen although there was some air intrusion! So what does the correspondent do? He has only the official version and some "independent " analysts assessment to go by. They would all say the same thing. Oh yes there is some nursery school there. The bombs fell in the nearby forest etc. The BBC correspondent cant visit NWFP on his own. It is a dangerous place at the best of times. Without military escort and against official embargo, forget it. Besides why would he strike out when the nearest town doesn't sport a Marriott or a Holiday Inn that you can return to, for a sun downer! So he files what he does. The BBC cannot possibly ask its Delhi correspondent to report on air strike in India controlled J&K. Because there was none or at least none, that would reflect poorly on the Modi government. Hence he is asked to report on public perception of Indian official claims. What is left unsaid is that no one wants an objective account. A report where he is the judge, jury and the prosecution would do just as fine as well. He ends up filing a report where Arundhati is the prosecution. Yechury, Raja, Kejriwal are the jury. The BBC correspondent as the judge says the jury has returned an unanimous verdict of 'guilty'.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 03 Mar 2019 02:39

A_Gupta wrote:Can there be any doubt now
Zoom Earth, March 2, 2018

Small problem, Guptaji. Pls kindly check weather in that area. I seem to remember that there is/was heavy snow (feet) in whole POK/Khyber etc areas.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 03 Mar 2019 02:43

John wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:Can there be any doubt now? I tend to believe my own lying eyes, but there is tiny probability that I'm misinterpreting these images, so BRF gurus?

Memorialized on my blog: https://observingliberalpakistan.blogsp ... after.html

Balakot, before and after.
We already discussed it zoom.earth images are very old not sure why people keep saying it if Mar 2nd, it is not as up to date as google earth. The images it shows of areas I am familiar with are 3-6 years dated where as google earth is 1 year behind.

What is interesting is it confirms complex was built up about 2+ years ago.

Thanks, John! You are right, the high-res Zoom Earth images from undated imaged from Bing Maps, and so are much more likely to be old rather than new. The "Updated Daily" that that website claims applies probably only to the low-res whole-earth image.

PS: From Google Earth, 4/26/2014, all the current structures are there, and only the lower right building was lacking a roof, and 12/21/2012 most of the site was covered with vegetation with only the little cluster of buildings in the north-east corner of the building. So this complex was in its pre-February-26-2019 form probably since sometime in mid-2014.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Mar 2019 02:45

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/1101754620450226176 ---> The biggest 'proof' of the efficacy of the Balakot strike is the fact that the Pakistan Air Force was compelled to send its best planes for a broad daylight attack on Indian Army positions in retaliation.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Mar 2019 02:56

Plus its not just RISAT-2, assuming its still operational. We just launched Microsat-R in Jan in a very low earth orbit for high resolution. Its a DRDO spy sat.

We have multiple radar equipped assets, including these guys.
Several pods purchased for the Su-30s.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... c-customer

And these guys (2x of them)
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-K-bdgt669XU/ ... rcraft.jpg

Plus even the Herons likely have a SAR package

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 03 Mar 2019 02:58

Rudradev wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:There are many people both inside India and out that believe the Balakot strike did not hit the intended target. Although from a strategic sense the bombing was successful because the message is clear that India will strike back if hit by terrorists, but from an operational sense it appears that it was not to the outside world. To refute this IMHO, the GoI will have to put some evidence in the public domain. In any case, IMO large scale terrorist strikes may not happen in the near future.

I am disappointed this didn’t go further by hitting TSP RATS command HQ after the PAF crosses the LoC.

One has to define exactly what one means by the "Outside World" and define which, if any, components of this entity have opinions important enough to warrant correction or refutation by India.

1) IAF knows what happened in the Balakot strike. TSPA, ISI &JeM know it too.
2) Most people inside India will believe their Armed Forces (except the small % who are a lost cause no matter what they are shown as evidence).
3) People outside India are irrelevant. Governments outside India and Pakistan (the ones that matter, anyway) will have their own ways of determining what happened.

This being the case, it is a fool's errand to release "evidence" to try and convince those who may remain unconvinced.

Any type of evidentiary data we make public will, inevitably, reveal things about our capacity to gather such data, our military operating procedures, and a whole lot more classified information that intelligence professionals will be able to extract by close observation & deduction.

That in and of itself will be more injurious to us than the highly questionable "upside" of convincing those of the "outside world" who do not and cannot know what happened.

You know full well what outside world means. These are the people who are loathe of believing the GoI or IAF at their word - and these are the people who must shut up after action or they will spin a narrative that will be accepted by a significant percentage of the Indian public and media.

People outside of India are in fact important as they are the ones the GoI tries to convince foreign governments to declare Pak a terrorist supporting state. Otherwise there was no need for the GoI to try to put TSP on the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) blacklist, or have Azhar and others declared terrorists through UNSC declaration. If the GoI acted like Indira or ABVP and gave the finger to the rest of the world it wouldn't matter.

In 1999 during Kargil, the IAF released infrared video and stills of Mirage 2000 attacking Tiger Hill and other locations. Images of some sort were released.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 03 Mar 2019 02:59

Prem Kumar wrote:Iyerval has his strengths - war-gaming. But he is now pontificating on all military matters like some kind of expert. There was an interview of him with pgurus (Sree Iyer), where he was happily mixing fact with fiction. When referencing Kargil, he mixed up Sq Ldr Ahuja with Capt Saurabh Kalia. There were a couple of other gaffes too. And he speaks with a British accent which irritates me no end.

Someone needs to tear him a new one, one of these days

When I first saw him proudly standing in front of some goras and spouting nonsense about nuclear strategy, I was a bit.. confused. As to what his actual credential were. Now, I am thoroughly convinced that he has what it takes.

He is elite.. He is the son of a distinguished family, has an economics degree from a name brand western uni, and is otherwise unemployable. He also happens to be gay.

Now tell me, isn't that enough qualification to be launched as an 'influencer' in India? Rupa Subramanyam was another such..

Its the age of fakery.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 03 Mar 2019 02:59

Karan M wrote:
Plus its not just RISAT-2, assuming its still operational. We just launched Microsat-R in Jan in a very low earth orbit for high resolution. Its a DRDO spy sat.
We have multiple radar equipped assets, including these guys.
Several pods purchased for the Su-30s.
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... c-customer

And these guys (2x of them)
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-K-bdgt669XU/ ... rcraft.jpg

Plus even the Herons likely have a SAR package

Yes, but it is unlikely the Su-30s or Herons with their SAR package went to Balakot during or after the strike for confirmation.