Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

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Khalsa
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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Khalsa » 05 Jun 2019 14:16

I don't know why so many on BR are disappointed that Kaiser Tufail is singing the Pakistani song...


Last I checked his passport is Pakistani.

Get over it boys. He is good enemy, he is loyal and supporting his flag. If you want to get a reality check then check one his interviews in which he dissess the Tejas over the JF-17 especially if they get into a knife fight with each other. Overall he is generally dismissive of all delta winged a/c, apparently they bleed energy much quickly and can be brought to the heel by an expert driver.

If you like his 1999 articles its only because he exposed the lack of BVR capability within PAF.
They fixed that issue and were able to create a temporary sanitised bubble over India by mass firing the AMRAAMs and therefore create an opportunity for the thunders to launch whatever they did.

The covered their exits with some ambush tactics with a hidden contingent hitting Abhi from the flank. Good planning on their side indeed.
We created and did something exactly like in 71 ourselves on the western front.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Jun 2019 10:57

Pakis generally tell the start telling the truth only 10-15 years after an event, this true of all previous wars Kargil etc. Till 2010 it was Mujahaideen in Kargil. They will tell the truth about 27 Feb some years down the line.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Kashi » 10 Jun 2019 11:04

Bakis will do as they are wont to, when will we start telling our side of the story more effectively.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby gakakkad » 10 Jun 2019 17:36

Aditya_V wrote:Pakis generally tell the start telling the truth only 10-15 years after an event, this true of all previous wars Kargil etc. Till 2010 it was Mujahaideen in Kargil. They will tell the truth about 27 Feb some years down the line.


I don't think there is going to be a Pakistan 10-15 years down the line.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Jun 2019 18:08

Aditya_V wrote:Pakis generally tell the start telling the truth only 10-15 years after an event, this true of all previous wars Kargil etc. Till 2010 it was Mujahaideen in Kargil. They will tell the truth about 27 Feb some years down the line.

it's also because of regime changes...mushy was there till late 2000s and the guys make money by telling sensational stuff for indian lutyens media which invites these cretins happily for aack thoo sessions. we'll hear soon about balakot.
That said I suspect we did incur Su30 losses on the amraam. Not that I believe natsec jeff but a gut feeling tells me that ..dont have any cogent story..but the fact we didnt press things under the RoE ..esp after the heli loss and mig 21 loss speaks volumes makes me suspect. I stayed silent at that time but now i think we must see that the lessons are learnt.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Bart S » 10 Jun 2019 18:12

^You cannot hide an SU-30 crash in India. Period. Let us not second guess the IAF and GOI who have a long history of being open and transparent about setbacks.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby hnair » 10 Jun 2019 18:47

ArjunPandit wrote:That said I suspect we did incur Su30 losses on the amraam. Not that I believe natsec jeff but a gut feeling tells me that ..dont have any cogent story..but the fact we didnt press things under the RoE ..esp after the heli loss and mig 21 loss speaks volumes makes me suspect. I stayed silent at that time but now i think we must see that the lessons are learnt.


Easy now, with the "we" usages. Keep gut-feel et al strictly in your social media handles. Not here

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Jun 2019 19:04

India has not had any internet black outside like POK, plus media have more than enough sources in AF. Especially with GE 2019 being there an SU30 loss would have been covered, impossible for IAF to cover up. So let's leave this BS as it is.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 10 Jun 2019 20:17

I'll probably regret mentioning this- but I was so outraged and disgusted yesterday while scanning the NY Times over the past one week. Pankaj Mishra( what a shocker) wrote a typical negative, derogatory, sour pus article about Narendra Modi's election win.

Bad as it was, the remarks about Balakot really take the cake. The guy at this late stage still propagates the silliness about 'only trees were hit', and the idea of hundreds of terrorists being killed was fake news. Didn't he know that three separate Indian news channels showed proof of the strikes, that an Italian journalist confirmed it, and that the IAF is absolutely certain of the success?

I guess it's not necessary to refer to the likes of Mishra in this forum. But I just had to :x

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 10 Jun 2019 20:39

i would rather get rodgered here and learn something...than go out and BS in SM and be a pakistani..points taken..

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Prem Kumar » 10 Jun 2019 23:59

Varoon: Pankaj Mishra is beneath contempt. He is a typical sepoy (the Indian equivalent of a House Negro), who likes to eat crumbs from the white man to spit on the natives. NYT, WaPo etc uses these sepoys to take potshots at India/Hindus because if a white man does so directly, he will be called racist

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 11 Jun 2019 02:13

he's JNU MA English lit, what else do you expect from him?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Jun 2019 20:56

Varoon Shekhar wrote:I'll probably regret mentioning this- but I was so outraged and disgusted yesterday while scanning the NY Times over the past one week. Pankaj Mishra( what a shocker) wrote a typical negative, derogatory, sour pus article about Narendra Modi's election win.


Aiyyoooo! Welcome to BRF. Being shocked at Pankaj Mishra is like saying that one is shocked to see the Mahishasura eating small children and bissing on a yaga. This is how he earns his living and wins Prizes from the racists for being a good little wog. Others whose writing should never shock you:
Arundhati Roy
Sagarika Ghose
Angana Chatteriji
Pra-fool Badai (or is is Bidwai?) Is he still around?

Small list, but don't want to spring all on you at one shot, or you may think I am some kind of Hindu Nationalist. :eek:

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 15 Jun 2019 21:05

But what shocks ME is that there was another terrorist attack on Wednesday at Anantnag, 5 CRPF people killed, and not a peek on BRF!!! I looked several times if I had the month or year wrong, what is going on pls? Is there a separate BRF that no one told me about, and left me out of? :((

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Jun 2019 21:42

Sad we can discuss in J&K thread.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby fanne » 15 Jun 2019 23:06

ArjunPandit wrote:That said I suspect we did incur Su30 losses on the amraam. Not that I believe natsec jeff but a gut feeling tells me that ..dont have any cogent story..but the fact we didnt press things under the RoE ..esp after the heli loss and mig 21 loss speaks volumes makes me suspect.
[/quote]

We lost a Heli and a Mig 21, sure we did when the fight was going on. The info on Mig 21 down came some 20-30 minutes after the fact, the Heli much more later. So unless the IAF pilot had an information time machine or watching AP CNN on their MFD (instead of fighting), they would not know that Mig 21 was shot down or a Heli was down (that incident btw happened some 50-100 KM away, they could not have even witnessed it).

They did fight, and did not pursue as the ROE was not to shoot (which must have changed to shoot as soon as they knew they had incoming AMARAAM), certainly ROE would have restricted pursuing into TSP air space (it doesn't sound logical that you were shot so now you can fly any where in TSP and shoot plane).
Most logical conclusion is, TSPAF had laid an ambush, IAF plane was quick to recognize that, plus they were providing air cover to oil dump and perhaps airport of Pathankot so the mission was to protect that airspace (and not get into knife fight). Imagine they have pursued the F-16, leaving the air space open, and TSPAF plane had a go at Pathankot air base...that would be stupid. They dozed incoming AMARAAMs (that was mainly shot to disperse, and they achieved their objective). SU30MKI pilots did the right thing, dodge them, it would be stupid to - that since F-16 have shot the AMRAAM from long distance, let me go close and help it make a easy kill. It had nothing to do with SU30MKI down. Please get out of your fear and theories and phobias.
Last edited by fanne on 16 Jun 2019 08:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby sanjayc » 16 Jun 2019 01:14

UlanBatori wrote:Pra-fool Badai (or is is Bidwai?) Is he still around?


He kicked the bucket in 2015 in Netherlands (his sponsor).

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby UlanBatori » 16 Jun 2019 01:16

I have a "feeling" that TSPA HQ incurred losses that night. Re-Lie-Able sources indicate that all the lotas-e-pakistan went missing at the same time as Jarnails took them downstairs to the Mahal-e-bum

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Jun 2019 06:11

fanne wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:


We lost a Heli and a Mig 21, sure we did when the fight was going on. The info on Mig 21 down came some 20-30 minutes after the fact, the Heli much more later. So unless the IAF pilot had an information time machine or watching AP CNN on their MFD (instead of fighting), they would not know that Mig 21 was shot down or a Heli was down (that incident btw happened some 50-100 KM away, they could not have even witnessed it).

They did fight, and did not pursue as the ROE was not to shoot (which must have changed to shoot as soon as they knew they had incoming AMARAAM), certainly ROE would have restricted pursuing into TSP air space (it doesn't sound logical that you were shot so now you can fly any where in TSP and shoot plane).
Most logical conclusion is, TSPAF had laid an ambush, IAF plane was quick to recognize that, plus they were providing air cover to oil dump and perhaps airport of Pathankot so the mission was to protect that airspace (and not get into knife fight). Imagine they have pursued the F-16, leaving the air space open, and TSPAF plane had a go at Pathankot air base...that would be stupid. They dozed incoming AMARAAMs (that was mainly shot to disperse, and they achieved their objective). SU30MKI pilots did the right thing, dodge them, it would be stupid to - that since F-16 have shot the AMRAAM from long distance, let me go close and help it make a easy kill. It had nothing to do with SU30MKI down. Please get out of your fear and theories and phobias.

Fanne can you edit your post, Arjun Pandit post is being attributed to me.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby fanne » 16 Jun 2019 08:49

done!!

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Jun 2019 11:23

Thanks

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby A_Gupta » 19 Jun 2019 21:15

Very good twitter thread, "Kohlee shud rejine"
https://twitter.com/elmihiro/status/1140296892523270145

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 19 Jun 2019 21:56

We did not pursue PAF in to PoK for a simple reason. With Mig21 being shot down, COs would have sense PAF was laying a trap in PoK.

You cannot send in lone wolf fighters chasing F16s. Neither did PAF send fighters deep in to J&K. You have to go in with full strength... that means full fledged war.

We had no intention of going in to full scale war. That is why Balakot was termed "non-military strike".

Having said that after WC Abhi was capture... we were mobilizing for some solid jhapad to Pak. I am guessing the press conference was meant to declare a warning to Pak ; "hand over WC or face a proper war".

The only thing that save Pak was they declared to hand over WC quite quickly. US & Saudi told Pak what was coming.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 20 Jun 2019 01:12

Having said that after WC Abhi was capture... we were mobilizing for some solid jhapad to Pak. I am guessing the press conference was meant to declare a warning to Pak ; "hand over WC or face a proper war".

The only thing that save Pak was they declared to hand over WC quite quickly. US & Saudi told Pak what was coming.



I think war did not happen, because it was in no ones interest.

Pakistan army won on publicity. Indian strategic interest won because they managed to call the nuclear bluff. IAF won because it now will get more funding and fighters. Imran Khan improved his ratings, as did probably Modi.
I really do not know how this is for the Jehadis. Surprisingly many talkshows and discussions were questioning the Army and its jehadi connection. This was unthinkable only a few months ago. In several cases the Army was put on the defensive.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 20 Jun 2019 01:21

India won even more than whats known.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby nam » 20 Jun 2019 01:27

Rishirishi wrote:

I think war did not happen, because it was in no ones interest.



I have mentioned this quite a few times on the forum. There is nothing worth in Pak, fighting a war. Absolutely nothing. The terror groups are cannon fodders. You kill millions, PA will bring in more millions.

We just need to make air strikes.. normal. Pound PA and their cronies with airstrikes and hold our defenses.

Pak can win as many PR battles they want. We want to win the real ones.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Rishirishi » 20 Jun 2019 01:59

ramana wrote:India won even more than whats known.


Can you elaborate please :)

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 20 Jun 2019 02:01

is it about the cake and pastries that were carried away in a plane to the land of holy shrines

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ramana » 20 Jun 2019 04:03

A_Gupta wrote:Very good twitter thread, "Kohlee shud rejine"
https://twitter.com/elmihiro/status/1140296892523270145



Mihir, Take a bow.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby la.khan » 20 Jun 2019 08:06

ramana wrote:India won even more than whats known.

:?: While we have an inkling of an idea of what we hit in Balakot, any info (either open source or even chaiwala) on what we hit in Chakoti & Muzzafarabad?

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby disha » 20 Jun 2019 10:53

Rishirishi wrote: Pakistan army won on publicity. ....


Number of Jehadi Pigs sent for raisins - 300
Number of baki enemy fighters in baki strike package - 24
Taking down an F-16 - 1
Calling out the nuclear bluff of Bakistan - Priceless

There are some things that can be counted and seen tangible. Visibly calling out the nuclear bluff of Bakistan, PRICELESS.

After F-16 was downed, Bakistan lost all initiative and lost all control. The entire escalation ladder was India's. India could go up the escalation ladder or stay there, it was India's call. India's will.

Such a moment in history was recognized by highest honors coming from UAE and Russia.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Jun 2019 11:50

Rishirishi wrote:
Having said that after WC Abhi was capture... we were mobilizing for some solid jhapad to Pak. I am guessing the press conference was meant to declare a warning to Pak ; "hand over WC or face a proper war".

The only thing that save Pak was they declared to hand over WC quite quickly. US & Saudi told Pak what was coming.



I think war did not happen, because it was in no ones interest.

Pakistan army won on publicity. Indian strategic interest won because they managed to call the nuclear bluff. IAF won because it now will get more funding and fighters. Imran Khan improved his ratings, as did probably Modi.
I really do not know how this is for the Jehadis. Surprisingly many talkshows and discussions were questioning the Army and its jehadi connection. This was unthinkable only a few months ago. In several cases the Army was put on the defensive.


one more factor, the extra Defense opex Pakistan spent litrellay broke the Bank and sent the Pakistani Rupee tumbling down. Plus we knew Pakis had only 1 operational Submarine- priceless

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby tsarkar » 20 Jun 2019 11:55

ArjunPandit wrote:That said I suspect we did incur Su30 losses on the amraam.

No we didnt. Typically debris fall over a large area and that area Kashmir/Jammu/Punjab is densely populated and any ejections/debris would have been noticed. Secondly deceased/injured pilots are every difficult to hide from immediate family + extended family + friends in hometown + children's friends in school/neighbourhood + children's teachers in school even in a military cantonment. There are a lot of other peripheral pointers.

Gut feel is nonsense similar to Praveen Chakravarthy telling Rahul Gandhi Rafale is a big issue with voters.

fanne wrote:They did fight, and did not pursue as the ROE was not to shoot (which must have changed to shoot as soon as they knew they had incoming AMARAAM), certainly ROE would have restricted pursuing into TSP air space (it doesn't sound logical that you were shot so now you can fly any where in TSP and shoot plane).


No, the RoE of not engaging Pakistani fighters across LoC was not changed.

One problem of modern communications is that Military Leaders keeping authority instead of delegating to personnel on the field.

During the Karachi attacks in 1971, CNS in Delhi wanted to command via radio the missile boats and their escort frigates. By the grace of God, communications failed and the at sea commanders were able to decide and act in real time.

During the famous Black Hawk Down incident in Mogadishu, a US Navy P-3C provided high resolution overhead EO images of Somali militia that went to the General Officer Commanding at base who instructed Tactical Commander in a helicopter overhead who in turn instructed the ground team. In this communication chain, vital time was lost and the ground team missed vital turns and ironically ended up in Somali ambushes. Black Hawk Down is a classic case study of over control and not delegating. Ideal communication should have been direct between P-3C EO images to ground team to help them choose the right route to the crash site.

Given the Indian mentality of over controlling, this problem is compounded.

During the air battle, there was an RoE of not engaging Pakistanis across LoC. Which is why the Pakistani package was allowed to come close to the border. Even after they had fired AMRAAMs and fleeing back, the Mirage 2000 Super 530D or MICA and Su-30 R-77s had adequate range to engage. One can calculate the ranges from the radar plot shared by IAF later. However Indian Mirage 2000, Su-30 and other MiG-21s were awaiting permission. The permission went up from ground controller to WAC to IAF HQ and vital time was lost.

Otherwise IAF Su-30’s and Mirage 2000 could have fired long range R-77, MICA & Super 530D shots. Despite Pk falling with range, it was still worth it.

This is also the reason why Abhinandan’s wingman was not with him when he engaged the F-16s. Abhinandan’s wingman respected the RoE and didn’t cross the LoC. 6 MiG-21 were scrambled from Srinagar and only 1 engaged.

Even Sameer Joshi corroborates this

''The PAF surprised the IAF by launching air-to-air missiles from inside Pakistan-occupied Kashmir," says Sameer Joshi, a Kargil veteran. ''The AMRAAM effectively outranged the IAF air-to-air missiles which did not get a command to launch," he said.


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/outgunn ... es-2044172

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby NRao » 20 Jun 2019 12:38

During the famous Black Hawk Down incident in Mogadishu, a US Navy P-3C provided high resolution overhead EO images of Somali militia that went to the General Officer Commanding at base who instructed Tactical Commander in a helicopter overhead who in turn instructed the ground team. In this communication chain, vital time was lost and the ground team missed vital turns and ironically ended up in Somali ambushes. Black Hawk Down is a classic case study of over control and not delegating. Ideal communication should have been direct between P-3C EO images to ground team to help them choose the right route to the crash site


Not much different today. For a veriety of reason/s, pretty much everything goes through C2. They are seeking changes.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 20 Jun 2019 12:43

Exactly, what I have been saying sine 27 Feb 19, IAF respected the ROE, Pakis dont respect any rules or laws. Thanks to Abhi for bringing down that F-16.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby ArjunPandit » 20 Jun 2019 14:43

^^folks thanks for clearing the stupid doubts/suspicions in my mind.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby manjgu » 20 Jun 2019 15:29

ArjunPandit...what do u eat to get such doubts?? Dont u know the napakis !! and their spin doctoring .

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Jun 2019 15:26

Anyway one more question, do we have a list of Paki drones shot down post Balakot, I remember atleast 6-7 were taken down, I wish it had type of Drone Location, shot with SAM/AAM along with type of missile and Launcher platform. Starting from the one in Gujarat in Naliya airbase.

Going by Media reports by 4 March 3 were shot down, 1 in Gujarat, 1 near Bikaner 3rd unknown, another 2 over Rajastan on 9 March and 12 March, 1 over Taran Taran Punjab on 4 April. Confirms thier losses were significant on 26 Feb, Block 52 F-16D lost on 27 Feb and hence they were probing the whole border looking for a weak spot.

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby Manish_P » 21 Jun 2019 19:53

Troll level = Epic :lol:

'Operation Bandar' was IAF's code name for Balakot strikes

Mods can you pls. add the words 'Operation Bandar' in the thread title. Pretty please

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Re: Operation Balakot: News & Discussion

Postby IndraD » 22 Jun 2019 12:44

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 893683.cms
Pakistan airspace to open only if India promises to not repeat Balakot strike


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