MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

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MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2019 21:48

MiG-21 Bison

Image

In 1961, the Indian Air Force (IAF) opted to purchase the MiG-21 over several other Western competitors because the Soviet Union offered India full transfer of technology and rights for local assembly. In 1964, the MiG-21 became the first supersonic fighter jet to enter service with the IAF. Due to limited induction numbers and lack of pilot training, the IAF MiG-21 played a limited role in the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965. However, the IAF gained valuable experience while operating the MiG-21 for defensive sorties during the war.The positive feedback from IAF pilots during the 1965 war prompted India to place more orders for the fighter jet and also invest heavily in building the MiG-21's maintenance infrastructure and pilot training programs. By 1969, India had acquired more than 120 MiG-21s from the Soviet Union.

Improvements on the baseline MiG-21 to make the Bison :

• Multi-functional coherent Doppler-pulse airborne radar "Kopyo" with slot antenna
• On-board digital computer
• Helmet-mounted target designato
• Double screen (HUD and CRT) display system
• Stores management system
• Inertial navigation system
• Air data computer system, digital
• Short range radio navigation system
• On-board radio command receiving equipmen
• New flare dispenser (26 mm 120 rounds)
• New electric power supply system, controlling and recording system
• Sextant's TOTEM RLG-INS with NSS-100P GPS embedded GPS receivers
• El-Op HUD, infrared search and track system (IRST) from Russia's URALs optical-mechanical plant
• Two Sextant MFD-55 LCD displays
• Radar Warning Receivers (RWR)
• New liquid air cooling system
• HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick) controls
• Autopilot

Like the Su-30MKI, it has a mix of French, Israeli, Indian and Russian avionics equipment. It is claimed that the fighters are equivalent to any 4th generation fighter, with the ability to lock on to 8 different targets at once.

It's weaponry includes the not so commonly seen seeker module of the KAB-500Kr TV guided bomb, R-73 CCM and an R-77 BVRAAM carried under wing. The aircraft's sophisticated EW suite comprises of a DRDO Tarang RWR/RHAWS, "Tempest" internal Self-Protection Jammer (SPJ) and the conformal CMDS.

Other features include a SURA HMS, a semi-glass cockpit and a Sextant Totem-3000 Ring laser gyro navigation system with GPS, to mention a few. Note the conformal countermeasure dispensers, the new Tarang RWRs antennae on the tail fin and the single piece windshield.

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Re: Mig-21 shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2019 21:55


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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rakesh » 01 Mar 2019 22:00

I have edited your first post Austin. Please review.

Also, I believe this was a F-16B Block 15 of the ex-Jordanian Air Force and not a new build F-16D Block 52.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2019 22:02

Rakesh can you clarify on Review ?

Here is official PAF information on F-16D Block 52 Dual Seater

PAF Receives F-16 Aircraft from USA, Islamabad

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2019 22:05

This blog has the best data so far on PAF F-16 Block 52 .......Seems to have CFT

http://pakmr.blogspot.com/2010/10/video ... n-air.html

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2019 22:06

Security Scan - MiG-21 Bison

Kindly watch this discussion .......Quite informative discussion by our Armed Forces panel


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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rakesh » 01 Mar 2019 22:11

Austin, I am not denying that the PAF did not get the F-16D. But since they are shamelessly hiding the fact that a F-16 - of any type - did indeed get shot down, we have no way of knowing that it was actually a F-16D Block 52. They only have 18 Block 50/52 aircraft and they will be preserved in their hardened shelters like diamonds. They will not pull those birds out, unless they really need to.

The other F-16s (the original birds delivered in the 80s and from Jordanian stocks) are more expendable.

PAF F-16 Block 50/52s start with the serial number 10XXX. The 10 represents the year of delivery - 2010. brar_w can advise more.

Image

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rakesh » 01 Mar 2019 22:12

This is a F-16B of the Pakistan Air Force. Look at the serial number. Starts with 90XXX and thus delivery of this aircraft happened in 1990.

The 1990 I believe was the last year of delivery before the Pressler Amendment took effect.

Image

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rakesh » 01 Mar 2019 22:16

The Pakistan Air Force got 28 F-16A Block 15 and 12 F-16B Block 15 starting from the early 80s. That was the first batch of 40 aircraft divided between two squadrons - No 9 Griffins Squadron and No 11 Arrows Squadron. They got 12 F-16C Block 50 and 6 F-16D Block 52+ aircraft starting from 2010. These 18 birds are with No 5 Falcons Squadron. They also got ex-Jordanian Air Force F-16s. I believe of the Block 15 variety onlee. These aircraft form No 19 Sherdills Squadron. I will have to look up the exact number of aircraft.

It is believed that the twin seater F-16B that was shot down by Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was from *THIS* squadron.

The PAF has no honor. Like their sister services, they behind fake valour to whip their local populace into hysteria.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby krish.pf » 01 Mar 2019 22:30

Some more on the Radars on the Bison.

Kopyo-21I
Can Track- 8 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 57 km

Kopyo-M
Can Track- 10 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 2 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 80 km

Some Bisons are equipped with Kopyo-21I and some with Kopyo-M.
Would be interesting to know which radar was the one which locked on to the F-16.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2019 22:31

86 seconds........

Image
Image
Last edited by Austin on 01 Mar 2019 22:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby JTull » 01 Mar 2019 22:33

It was a WVR engagement with R-73 so radar lock is not relevant to this.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2019 22:36

Bison has a auto lock Radar according to an Airforce officer ........ As the radar sees any fighter flying it autolocks it

This and other fact is mentioned in the BISON two part video

Part-1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBdx5MYrH-g
Part-2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgxSzilm0Rk

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby MeshaVishwas » 01 Mar 2019 22:39


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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Singha » 01 Mar 2019 22:44

the block52 is a fairly hefty aircraft with the big spine and CFTs . I wonder how it compares in ACM to the older F16MLUs block30-40 range which were perceived as the best dogfighters of the family.

maybe block52 is their best DPSA bird and kept for such missions.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby manjgu » 01 Mar 2019 22:48

and Mig 21 ability to carry Israeli jammer...

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby isubodh » 01 Mar 2019 23:12

It is being said that F-16 targeted our military establishment in and dropped few bombs. Do we not have SAM batteries to protect those installations. Why no mention of any type of SAM here ?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Sridhar K » 01 Mar 2019 23:16

Did we upgrade these Bisons ourselves or sent to Russia?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Singha » 01 Mar 2019 23:16

iirc it was done in india with kits from russia and the mix of stuff we used. engine was not changed. it never had a fadec. but airframe was made stronger and refurbished i think.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2019 23:23

Few number were upgraded in Russia but most at HAL .....around less than 200 but offically they mention as 126

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Vamsee » 01 Mar 2019 23:39

ITS OFFICIAL. F-16 shot down
======================
Indian Air Force

Verified account

@IAF_MCC
Follow Follow @IAF_MCC
More
#DiaryofEvents: On 27 Feb 19 at around 1000 hrs IAF radars detected a large package of PAF aircraft heading towards the Indian territory towards general area Jhangar. They breached the Indian airspace west of Rajauri in Sunderbani Area. (1/5)
Details on http://www.fb.com/IndianAirForce


Ingressing aircraft were observed to be at various levels. IAF fighters including MiG-21Bison, Su-30MKI, Mirage-2000 were tasked to intercept the intruder. PAF aircraft attempting to target military installations, were intercepted by IAF fighters & thwarted their plans. (2/5)

Although PAF bombs have fallen in Indian Army Formation compounds however they were unable to cause any damage to our Military Installations.
In the aerial combat that ensued one F-16 of PAF was shot down by an IAF MiG-21 Bison. The F-16 crashed and fell across the LOC. (3/5)

The IAF lost one MiG-21 in the aerial engagement & the Pilot ejected safely, his parachute drifted into POJ&K where he was taken into custody by Pakistan Army. (4/5)

We have Wg Cdr Abhinandan back with us.
Indian Air Force is proud of our Airwarrior #Abhinandan. (5/5)
#WelcomeHomeAbhinandan

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 01 Mar 2019 23:47

JTull wrote:It was a WVR engagement with R-73 so radar lock is not relevant to this.


Radar is used to cue the seeker in a close in fight, it has close in modes.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 01 Mar 2019 23:48

gaurav.p wrote:Guys, sorry to be a sour grape. But the stance of iyerval sounds correct. There is corroborating proof that F16 was used. BUT There has been no evidence to prove a downed f16

- the drop tank can possibly ejected during egress.
- the red flares can also possibly be missile launch/ payload ejection
- the component # is pure coincidence IMO. The wreckage is surely that of mig21 in that image

the only evidence that corroborates our side
- interview of old guy saying 3 chutes (can someone translate other videos?)

Don't know if Abhinandan sir will tell the operational brief to the public. Neither IAF will release any HMDS video (if recorded). Let's see if this mystery remains one or solved by media management by IAF. If an AWACS would have been in the sky then that would also picked up corroborating evidence. Seems like closure is still missing.


IAF has taken a stance that we downed a F16. We stand with the IAF. Evidence will emerge. Till then be patient and do your bit.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby gaurav.p » 01 Mar 2019 23:53

Karan M wrote:We stand with the IAF. Evidence will emerge. Till then be patient and do your bit.


Agreed completely. Editing my outlier post in the thread.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Anujan » 01 Mar 2019 23:56

https://www.firstpost.com/india/pilot-o ... 80091.html

Praveen Swami of "grandma crossed over" fame.


PAF Wing Commander Shahaz-ud-Din had parachuted out of his F-16 aircraft safely, but was then attacked by a mob after his aircraft crash-landed
The news that Shahaz-ud-Din's plane was shot down was first reported by London-based lawyer Khalid Umar, who says he received it privately, from individuals related to the F-16 pilot’s family

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Kakarat » 01 Mar 2019 23:58

When the IAF says a F-16 was shot down then it means a F-16 was shot down.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby krish.pf » 02 Mar 2019 00:19

JTull wrote:It was a WVR engagement with R-73 so radar lock is not relevant to this.

A radar lock speeds up the locking process as the co-ordinates are quickly transferred to the R-73 before it is launched. Or the missile's seeker is slaved to the radar to point it in the right direction. It can also be launched without a radar with the missile seeker directly made to lock on to the target. But like I said it's more faster with a radar assisting it.
Same can be done using irst as well, which the MiG-29s have and bisons dont. IRSTs are used if you want to remain stealthy.

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Mig-21 shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby YashG » 02 Mar 2019 00:24

86 seconds that changed seven decades of aviation history!

F16

F-16 is a fourth generation American fighter jet. In the five decades long history of F-16, it has been never been ONCE shot down on an offensive mission by another aircraft (1). The only other time it has been shot down was in 1996 but not on an offensive mission (See #2). As one of the most produced military jet, it has seen a lot of combat in the last five decades and has been continuously upgraded since its introduction. There have been primarily three broad upgrades - F-16 A/B, F-16 C/D & F-16 E/F.

There have been sub-versions within each of these & Block 52 was the most superior version of C/D aircraft introduced in 2006. In 2019, F-16 continues to have an active market globally with this aircraft still serving Air forces of many developed countries including those in EU, Israel & Asia. It continues to be choice of platform. NO country that owns & operates F16 has phased it out of their airforce. More about the F16 Block 52 can be read here (http://www.deagel.com/Combat-Aircraft/F-16C-Block-52_a000540011.aspx. And https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f16/)

Pakistan Air Force F16D, twin seater versions are Block 52 - http://paf.gov.pk/6_F-16s.html. It is the most advanced aircraft available with PAF. PAF F16s also operate a host of advanced American weapon systems including AIM 120 C AMRAAM with a range of over 105 Kms introduced in 1996.

-----------------------------------------------
MIG-21

Mig 21 is one of the oldest fighter aircraft serving world militaries with a seven decades old legacy. It is a second generation fighter aircraft. It has been upgraded a number of times with the Bison version used by IAF as the latest and probably the last upgrade that this plane will see. It is notoriously called the 'flying coffin' in India due to its aging and legacy technology but all experts do agree to this term. No developed countries use Mig21 and tens of Air-forces have phased out Mig21 by 2019 and many including India plans to do so in next 4-5 years. More about the Mig 21 Bison can be read here ( http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircraft/Current/605-Bison.html And https://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/aircraft/specs/550-mig-21.html )

Mig21 Bison is oldest and technically the least advanced planes of Indian Airforce. Mig 21 among other missiles uses Russian A2A weapons including the R73 introduced in 1984.
-----------------------------------------------

Mig21 & F16 are generations apart - there is a difference of two generations in the basic technology of these platforms. One platform continues to be used by world's leading armies and will continue to do so for the next decades while Mig 21 is on the verge of being phased out. Their technical capabilities are world apart. Technologically there are huge differences between the two platforms compounded by the fact that Russian avionics & electronics have historically lagged those of EU & US MICs. In 1982, Israeli Air Force F16s shot down 44 Mig 21s & Mig 23s without a single loss of its own aircraft RAND Report https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a148310.pdf. If anything Mig21 has a dismal track record against F-16s. Going by these figures, statistically speaking Mig21 should stand no chance against an F-16.

An that is what makes the Feb 27 air duel between the Mig 21 Bison of IAF and F16 D Blk 52 a part of Aviation History. It is an stunning ode to what IAF and its pilots are made of. IAF Mig21 and its pilot WingCo Abhinandan Varthaman shot down an PAF F-16 part of a 3 aircraft F-16 formation with an R73 while he was being locked on by another AMRAAM 120C by F16. The IAF Mig21 chased and shot down the F16 across the LoC.

Guys this is Aviation History & something that aviation enthusiasts will discuss for a long time to come. It will change the calculations of Air forces in the Indian subcontinent. Most importantly when IAF equals PAF's top of the rung aircraft with its bottom of the rung aircraft -it breaks the morale of the forces in a way that cant be compensated easily. Now Air Forces around the world will also know about the stuff that IAF pilots are made of. You would never want to be on the wrong side of such an Air Force.

I will add links to some stunning articles on the same.
Cold War wet dream that has at once stunned and captured the imagination of international security watchers across the world, the Indian Air Force today declared that a MiG-21 Bison fighter managed to shoot down a Pakistan Air Force F-16D

Century Of Service Between Them, IAF Says Its MiG-21 Just Scored World’s 1st F-16 Kill


the link also has useful details of the encounter.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2019/02/century-of-service-between-them-iaf-says-its-mig-21-just-scored-worlds-1st-f-16-kill.html

'F-16 Killer' Abhinandan's feat is stuff of air combat legend

It's unlikely that either Pakistan or the US will admit to the kill because of the ignominy of having to accept the lethality of Russian equipment and the damage it could do to troop morale.

https://www.ibtimes.co.in/f-16-killer-abhinandans-feat-stuff-air-combat-legend-792965

A Lebanese news source
MiG-21 fighter jet shoots down F-16 for the first time ever: report

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/mig-21-fighter-jet-shoots-down-f-16-for-the-first-time-ever-report/
the best plane is the one with the best pilot inside. The rest is details.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/could-a-mig-21-fighter-jet-shoot-down-an-f-16/

Some more links from Indian sources
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/86-seconds-of-dogfight-at-900-kmph/736286.html
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/over-in-90-seconds-officers-detail-india-pakistan-air-duel-along-border/story-QbKQsdfU7lW90fbTuIrOBI.html

Please add to this thread more analysis, interesting pieces of information & discussions.






-----------
Footnotes
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... shootdowns
2. The shoot down of a lone Turkish F16 by Greek Mirage 2000 happened on a routine,under non warlike situation. It was not a part of an offensive aircraft package and not an offensive mission. Turkish violation of Greek airspace is common & fighters are not armed mostly. in 2015 it happened 1375 times, fighters were not armed in >90% of times. https://sputniknews.com/military/201602181034962176-turkey-greece-aegean-conflict/

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ramana » 02 Mar 2019 01:59

Austin wrote:Few number were upgraded in Russia but most at HAL .....around less than 200 but offically they mention as 126


First 2 of the 126 MiG-21 Type 93 Bison were upgraded in Russia.
Rest in India

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby rgosain » 02 Mar 2019 02:19

ramana wrote:
Austin wrote:Few number were upgraded in Russia but most at HAL .....around less than 200 but offically they mention as 126


First 2 of the 126 MiG-21 Type 93 Bison were upgraded in Russia.
Rest in India

The russians are milking this..
http://tass.com/defense/1047106

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ramana » 02 Mar 2019 02:51

Haridas has a theroy and will let him post it.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rakesh » 02 Mar 2019 02:55

rgosain wrote:
ramana wrote:First 2 of the 126 MiG-21 Type 93 Bison were upgraded in Russia.
Rest in India

The russians are milking this..
http://tass.com/defense/1047106

And they MUST.

Big credits go to Mikhail Gurevich and Artem Mikoyan - the designers of the MiG-21.

Even bigger credits go to the Indian Air Force for envisioning the Bison (stands for Son of Bis of the MiG-21Bis variant) upgrade. The first MiG-21 to enter service was the MiG-21F in the early to mid 60s. It did not even have an internal gun and those K-13 missiles were unreliable to say the least! The Bison is a completely different beast.

The greatest credit goes to Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman for taking on a technologically superior aircraft and defeating that aircraft in air combat. Speaks volumes of his capabilities as a combat pilot and speaks volumes of the Indian Air Force's emphasis on tactics and training.

This is the stuff of legends.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby sudeepj » 02 Mar 2019 03:30

Newbie question.. Does the Kopyo radar go in the Mig 21 Nose Cone or is carried on a pod?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Jayram » 02 Mar 2019 03:32

One more
https://theaviationist.com/2019/02/28/the-indian-air-force-claims-a-mig-21-bison-managed-to-shoot-down-a-pakistan-air-force-f-16d-block-52/
That said, as this Author explained to Livefist, if confirmed, “the MiG-21 kill would be significant, as it would prove once again that when it deals with aerial engagement, not always does the more modern and capable weapon system (in this case the PAF F-16) wins. Several factors must be taken into consideration: pilot skills; support from other assets (including fighters and AEW aircraft), ground radars, etc. Above all, RoE play an essential role: if the Rules of Engagement require a positive VID of the opponent, a fighter might be forced to come WVR (Within Visual Range) where a MiG-21 can be particularly threatening. That’s why even 5th gen aircraft regularly train with legacy adversaries.”

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya G » 02 Mar 2019 03:38

FWIW only ....

What has happened yesterday (as per one of my IAF friend)..Minute by Minute details

9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near POK.

9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16

9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.

9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond

10:00 AM - PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)

10:01 AM - Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to POK side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and valiant fight from our Sukoi and Migs.

10:02 AM - One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ

10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.

10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to POK and shoot him down.

10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him

10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21. So salute to Abhinandan!

Via circulation online!

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby rgosain » 02 Mar 2019 04:41

Taiwan AF have rebutted PAF's claim about the origin of the AIM-120 missile. Retweet and circulate
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3648621

gpurewal
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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby gpurewal » 02 Mar 2019 04:47

sudeepj wrote:Newbie question.. Does the Kopyo radar go in the Mig 21 Nose Cone or is carried on a pod?


Nose Cone, which will still cause issues with the radar being able to scan at certain angles due to the limitations in place with the nose cone dimensions.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rishi_Tri » 02 Mar 2019 04:51

Jayram wrote:One more
https://theaviationist.com/2019/02/28/the-indian-air-force-claims-a-mig-21-bison-managed-to-shoot-down-a-pakistan-air-force-f-16d-block-52/
That said, as this Author explained to Livefist, if confirmed, “the MiG-21 kill would be significant, as it would prove once again that when it deals with aerial engagement, not always does the more modern and capable weapon system (in this case the PAF F-16) wins. Several factors must be taken into consideration: pilot skills; support from other assets (including fighters and AEW aircraft), ground radars, etc. Above all, RoE play an essential role: if the Rules of Engagement require a positive VID of the opponent, a fighter might be forced to come WVR (Within Visual Range) where a MiG-21 can be particularly threatening. That’s why even 5th gen aircraft regularly train with legacy adversaries.”


From the same article. It also mentions about Cope India 2004.

The MiG-21 Bison is an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MiG-21. Although the design is obsolete, its low radar visibility, instantaneous turn rate and acceleration, and the helmet mounted sight combined with high-off-boresight R-73 air-to-air missiles are among the factors that can make the upgraded MiG-21 a threatening adversary, even for more modern fighters. Let’s not forget what happened during Cope India 2004…

https://theaviationist.com/2014/05/02/c ... 4-results/

The Flanker wasn’t the only aircraft that the Eagle’s drivers faced in mock air-to-air combat: “The two most formidable IAF aircraft proved to be the MiG-21 Bison, an upgraded version of the Russian-made baseline MiG-21, and the Su-30MK Flanker, also made in Russia,” Snodgrass explained to AW&ST.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby gpurewal » 02 Mar 2019 04:52

Aditya G wrote:FWIW only ....
Via circulation online!

Hats off to the Wg Cdr Abhinandan (I suddenly want to grow the same style of stache as him). The only question I have is why the Su-30 did not chase the F-16, while the MiG guarded the oil field? Was the intention that the Sukhoi hold the line while the 21's RTB, but the Wg Cdr decided to finish the job?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby chola » 02 Mar 2019 06:11

gpurewal wrote:
Aditya G wrote:FWIW only ....

Hats off to the Wg Cdr Abhinandan (I suddenly want to grow the same style of stache as him). The only question I have is why the Su-30 did not chase the F-16, while the MIG guarded the oil field? Was the intention that the Sukhoi hold the line while the 21's RTB, but the Wg Cdr decided to finish the job?

SDRE from the deepest and darkest of South India in Chennai flying an outdated relic from the 1960s sent a russkie AAM up the tight arsed tail pipe of a scion of one of Pakiland’s most TFTA of warrior families. Think about that!


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