MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Mar 2019 16:42

Airforce Chief Marshal Dhanoa makes a stunning revelation, says ‘cannot comment on ongoing operations’

MARCH 4, 2019

Addressing the press in Coimbatore, Dhanoa affirmed that the Airforce pilots had hit the intended target in Balakot. When questioned about the number of terrorists killed, Dhanoa replied back, “IAF is not in a postilion to clarify the number of casualties. The government will clarify that. We don’t count human casualties, we count what targets we have hit or not.”

Regarding the question on the state of operations undergoing at the LoC, Air Chief Dhanoa said, “It is an ongoing operation I will not comment on it.” He was asked about why MiG21 Bisons were used to which he said that the Mig21 is a capable aircraft as it has been upgraded. He also said that it was better radar, air to air missiles and better weapons system. He then said that he cannot comment on ‘ongoing operations’.

This is a big statement coming from the Air Chief Marshal in the aftermath of the Pakistani Airforce’s unscrupulous attempt to attack Indian military bases was foiled by the vigilant Indian fighter jets. Since then Pakistan has been feverishly imploring India to de-escalate the situation transpired along the border. Air Chief Marshal’s statements suggest Indian Airforce is in the mood to relent the pressure mounted on Pakistan.

Many opposition politicians in India had questioned for proof or evidence that suggest the targets were hit in Balakot. Responding to this Air Chief Marshal Dhanoa said, “ If we plan to hit the target, we hit the target. If we had dropped bombs in a jungle, he (Imran Khan) would not have responded.”

In the wee hours of February 26, 2019, 12 Mirage 2000 aircraft of the Indian airforce flew deep inside Pakistani territory and bombed a major Jaish-e-Mohammad terrorist camp to dust in Balakot. It was an operation immaculately planned and executed with pinpoint precision by the Indian Airforce.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Mar 2019 16:43

Patni wrote:I will sure look out for all paki pilots start wearing shoulder patch proclaiming "مچ چٹائی میاں پاکستان". That's "maar mat yaar, Mai Pakistani hu" in Urdu.

You are assuming Literacy is very high with the Paki awam.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 04 Mar 2019 16:43

Patni wrote:I will sure look out for all paki pilots start wearing shoulder patch proclaiming "مچ چٹائی میاں پاکستان". That's "maar mat yaar, Mai Pakistani hu" in Urdu.

What happens if they land inside India?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Mar 2019 16:45

Its a better fate for PAF pilot to land in India that with illiterate Paki awam

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 04 Mar 2019 16:54

Kashi wrote:
Patni wrote:I will sure look out for all paki pilots start wearing shoulder patch proclaiming "مچ چٹائی میاں پاکستان". That's "maar mat yaar, Mai Pakistani hu" in Urdu.
What happens if they land inside India?

Probably kept in the local officers' mess and fed hotel food and wine before the red cross came for him. That's the tradition

For a few days after the mig21 went down, there were a lot of Saudis shuttling into Delhi - have they lost something.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 04 Mar 2019 17:00

Kashi wrote:
Patni wrote:I will sure look out for all paki pilots start wearing shoulder patch proclaiming "مچ چٹائی میاں پاکستان". That's "maar mat yaar, Mai Pakistani hu" in Urdu.
What happens if they land inside India?

Heck if any paki pilot ejects near boarder area, first thing they will try is to run East, to get into India and be safe, rather get lynched by going west!! We need a resident cartoon artist showing paki pilot in his pre flight routine checking out ideal eject altitude to catch north westerly winds and high tailing it for Indian side after crashing at border.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 04 Mar 2019 17:23

Wait till the dead Paki pilot gets Sitara-e-Jurrat in 2030 and then Pakis will know that one of their F16 was downed. Until then, we know, They know and that's all there is to know.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 04 Mar 2019 17:53

Came after waking up this afternoon and I find that we are finally into the really important things. All must be well.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 04 Mar 2019 18:00

I cannot believe that anyone but a Paki would see anything good about the NYT article except to add to my thread on Pro-Terrorist writers. I thought the author was some Ayrab turd but r u saying it is another desi traitor-bibi?

I suggest taking a poll and banning all those who say they like the article. Oops! Of course I value freedom Of Opinion. As the Baki Jarnail says, it eej Phreedom Aphter Obinion that eej doobius onlee. Set them all free: away from PeeAref.

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 04 Mar 2019 18:33

Cain Marko wrote:
habal wrote:here is the 2 parachute video, both are from same plane I believe.
around 0:14, you can see both parachutes in 1 frame

Interesting video this. The people in it clearly are shouting about 2 parachutes. Now there is audio and video confirmation of the downed f16. So far the most convincing unofficial piece of evidence imho.

This is by far the most convincing video evidence that I have seen which supports the assertion that were atleast 2 parachutes and IAF claims were correct. However to my untrained eye I could not even see single parachute in this video. One person exclaims that only one parachute and only others mention that there are 2 maybe even 3. Is it possible to for someone to really dig in an with some serious image processing and digout how many parachutes are there. In a week or so things will be more clear

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 04 Mar 2019 18:46

if you google or you tube almost every major news portal states 2 Indian jets shot down and pilot captured
there is no mention of F16 downed or fate of his pilot.
Is there a way we can improve on psy op war and why is it that we don;t find mention in western media?
Same content has made way to wikipedia as well.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Mar 2019 18:49

IndraD wrote:if you google or you tube almost every major news portal states 2 Indian jets shot down and pilot captured
there is no mention of F16 downed or fate of his pilot.
Is there a way we can improve on psy op war and why is it that we don;t find mention in western media?
Same content has made way to wikipedia as well.

Nothing can be done, India is seen as competition, by Paki point of view is deliberately taken to put down India.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 04 Mar 2019 18:52

Pakistan subjected Wing Commander Abhinandan to loud music & bright lights to break him
https://theprint.in/defence/pakistan-su ... im/201098/
also pic appears on SM where he seems to have been subjected to narco test

komal · Post by **komal** » 04 Mar 2019 18:59

IndraD wrote:if you google or you tube almost every major news portal states 2 Indian jets shot down and pilot captured
there is no mention of F16 downed or fate of his pilot.
Is there a way we can improve on psy op war and why is it that we don;t find mention in western media?
Same content has made way to wikipedia as well.

Best to win on the battlefield and not on social media.

I still remember the US invasion of Iraq -- when all the Western media went ecstatic over what they though was an easy win. While the US Army was expressing concerns -- the US government was already fighting over a division of the spoils.

The NYT was patting itself on the back for its reporting from Judy Miller et al.

Truth Alone Triumphs.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 04 Mar 2019 19:09

IndraD wrote: there is no mention of F16 downed or fate of his pilot.

narrative is slowly changing, e.g. Economist and others have come over far more towards the Indian perspective

Sputnik et al. have been taking feeds from UBCN for past 48 hrs

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Mar 2019 19:10

+1 Truth always matters, let the Paki trolls celebrate on Twitter, the more they blow themselves with hot air bigger will be the bursting of the balloon.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 04 Mar 2019 19:19

Aditya_V wrote:
IndraD wrote:if you google or you tube almost every major news portal states 2 Indian jets shot down and pilot captured
there is no mention of F16 downed or fate of his pilot.
Is there a way we can improve on psy op war and why is it that we don;t find mention in western media?
Same content has made way to wikipedia as well.
Nothing can be done, India is seen as competition, by Paki point of view is deliberately taken to put down India.

"Nothing can be done" is a tad defeatist. We need an organized and concerted effort, and if the govt machinery is too slow/incompetent to do that kind of stuff, Indians across social media need to mobilize and counter it themselves. Pakis and their supporters in the West have a headstart on this but they absolutely must be countered rather than being allowed a free run.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Mar 2019 19:31

Its not defeatist, but lets not self flagellate cause some Western media states this or that

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 04 Mar 2019 19:55

I'm going to ensure that it is spread through by word-of-mouth at least and bring it up where ever we can.

chola · Post by **chola** » 04 Mar 2019 20:21

komal wrote:
IndraD wrote:if you google or you tube almost every major news portal states 2 Indian jets shot down and pilot captured
there is no mention of F16 downed or fate of his pilot.
Is there a way we can improve on psy op war and why is it that we don;t find mention in western media?
Same content has made way to wikipedia as well.
Best to win on the battlefield and not on social media.

EXACTLY.

If the GOI or IAF thought it was more important to win this perception over tactical imperatives to not expose our methods then they would have released clear proof already.

Obviously it is not. Perception and propaganda means NOTHING in the world of hard kinetic power. I don’t know why we get our dhotis in a twist over “propaganda” and all that empty fake bullsh1t.

The IAF hold hard power advantages over the PAF here and that is all that matters.

The Pakis had used F-16s in both their strike and escort groups. They had fired off AMRAAMS. Now Khan is checking. Unless Unkil deliberately ignores that the Mirage and JF-17 were just political cover to fake firing of Amreeki BVRAAMs and LGBs then the Pukes will no longer be able to use their F-Solah and their real air power gies down by 70%.

If not, then convincing the world we shot down a F-16 matter nothing anyways. They will be one less F-Solah no matter what Twitter says and we will grind down the rest.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 04 Mar 2019 20:23

The entire aim of psyops is to demoralize the enemy.

Its a force multiplier.

But it cant replace force.

srin · Post by **srin** » 04 Mar 2019 20:31

Well, if our psyops can force Unkil deny or delay spares or hopefully worse, then I'm all for it. SM can help, but spray-and-pray doesn't. For instance, there are lots of vets with Afghan experience who have no love lost for the TSP and influential in Pentagon and administration.

chola · Post by **chola** » 04 Mar 2019 20:44

srin wrote:Well, if our psyops can force Unkil deny or delay spares or hopefully worse, then I'm all for it. SM can help, but spray-and-pray doesn't. For instance, there are lots of vets with Afghan experience who have no love lost for the TSP and influential in Pentagon and administration.

As I wrote, psyops can’t do either. Unkil will either accept or ignore the F-16 being used according their own strategic reckoning. You think we need convincing them that we shot down one of their F-16s with words when they inventory everything they sell to the rest of the world?

Those LGBs and BVRAAMs probably registered in the Pentagon the moment they are fired. Whether or not they beat the Pakis over the head with it is up to them not us.

What we need to do is to search out and destroy the one capable weapon system they own and render their air force useless or at least put it into Bangladeshi level which is what the PAF would be without the F-Solah.

ranneel · Post by **ranneel** » 04 Mar 2019 21:04

Karan M wrote:The entire aim of psyops is to demoralize the enemy.

Its a force multiplier.

But it cant replace force.

Hear! Hear!

khan · Post by **khan** » 04 Mar 2019 21:29

chola wrote:
komal wrote:
Best to win on the battlefield and not on social media.

EXACTLY.

If the GOI or IAF thought it was more important to win this perception over tactical imperatives to not expose our methods then they would have released clear proof already.

Obviously it is not. Perception and propaganda means NOTHING in the world of hard kinetic power. I don’t know why we get our dhotis in a twist over “propaganda” and all that empty fake bullsh1t.

The IAF hold hard power advantages over the PAF here and that is all that matters.

The Pakis had used F-16s in both their strike and escort groups. They had fired off AMRAAMS. Now Khan is checking. Unless Unkil deliberately ignores that the Mirage and JF-17 were just political cover to fake firing of Amreeki BVRAAMs and LGBs then the Pukes will no longer be able to use their F-Solah and their real air power gies down by 70%.

If not, then convincing the world we shot down a F-16 matter nothing anyways. They will be one less F-Solah no matter what Twitter says and we will grind down the rest.

Bingo.

I would like to add something else. In the absence of hard power, the only option the weaker side has is to furiously spin or outright lie.

We saw this in the Iraq war when “Bhagdad Bob” was giving nonsensical news updates. In the beginning when Baghdad Bob still had credibility, reporters would run back to the US side and ask them to clarify Bhagdad Bob’s rantings and it took time for the US side to ascertain the facts. Eventually this stopped working and things reached a point where no one believed Bhagdad Bob.

If you look at ISPR’s behavior - unhinged tweets about 2 planes and 3 pilots, then 2 planes and 2 pilots and then 1 plane and 1 pilot - it is the same shit.

Let the people who analyze pictures focus on planning the next air-strike instead of coming up with a desclassified PowerPoint presentation to satisfy some very annoying lungi shiverers.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 04 Mar 2019 21:29

F-16 : I am 4th generation fighter .
Mig- 21 : Hold my Vodka cyka .

- Alexander Zaldostanov , youtube

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Mar 2019 21:53

Dog Fight India's MIG 21 vs F-16D complete details

disha · Post by **disha** » 04 Mar 2019 21:58

bkswarti wrote:But alas, bashing the NYT article has turned to bashing people who want to point out some good points the article makes. Yes, the articles headlines and their version of the events is biased.

Apologies. Let me make this clear again, NYTimes has *nothing* (absolutely nothing) good or even remotely construed as good in the above article.

Please do not take it personal, If that particular nytimes article as stupid and garbage is called out. In fact, several nytimes journos are already waving that article to push for more sales of weaponry.

but we must not dismiss everything just because we see NYT as a firangi news source. Our desi news source isn't any less biased.

Actually we must. If our desi news sources are bad, work on them to improve it. In fact, there are several desi new sources (swarajyamag, opindia, another one actually posts here) who are very capable and very good. nytimes is pathetic and I have no qualms in calling out their anti-Hindu, anti-India bias.

As unlikely you may think a combined Pak - chin offensive may be; it honestly only just means a Chin offensive. Chinis will either convince the Pakis to join or the pakis will join seeing their opportunity without any thought. So, it is definitely a scenario we must prepare for.

Definitely prepare for it. And definitely shore up the IAF squadrons. However adding strength to IAF is not an overnight project. It takes time and from what I see, GOI is working on it.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Mar 2019 22:09

ANI
‏
Verified account

@ANI
45m45 minutes ago
More
Air India has issued a circular to all cabin crew and cockpit crew directing them to say 'Jai Hind' after any announcement onboard.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 04 Mar 2019 22:11

We have bagged another air to air kill

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/m.econom ... 258500.cms

Edit: a drone over Rajasthan

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 04 Mar 2019 22:42

folks, i am not sure how relaible this flightradar24.com is. right now it shows a PIA flight Beijing to slumabad over sri nagar.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 04 Mar 2019 22:44

It suits both the interests of the US and the PRC to chalk up the downing of the Mig to a JF-17 armed with a cloned aim-120 as the PRC can crow about the prowess of the JF-17, whilst ignoring the use of F16 armed with AIM-120.
The US is now exploiting this situation through the NYT, to suggest that the vintage IAF would be in a better state if it had inducted US built hardware - sanctions notwithstanding, and conveniently forgetting that much of the PAF F16 fleet and the 500 AIM-120 missile come gratis thanks to the US taxpayers.
In this encounter, it appears that between 4-6 AIM-120 were expended in combat with the IAF, debris from one was recovered, whilst the rest missed or malfunctioned - has this been highighted?

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 04 Mar 2019 22:52

I am sure this is already posted but those who have good twitter following, please tweet this story with link:
"How did NYTImes, and all other famous rags forgot to mention this detailed account on the death of a Pak Wing Commander in the dogfight reported here by a renowned Indian journalist.

Pilot of downed Pakistan Air Force F-16 Shahaz-ud-Din mistaken for Indian airman, lynched by Nowshera mob

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 04 Mar 2019 23:14

tandav wrote:
Cain Marko wrote: Interesting video this. The people in it clearly are shouting about 2 parachutes. Now there is audio and video confirmation of the downed f16. So far the most convincing unofficial piece of evidence imho.
This is by far the most convincing video evidence that I have seen which supports the assertion that were atleast 2 parachutes and IAF claims were correct. However to my untrained eye I could not even see single parachute in this video. One person exclaims that only one parachute and only others mention that there are 2 maybe even 3. Is it possible to for someone to really dig in an with some serious image processing and digout how many parachutes are there. In a week or so things will be more clear

Where do you guys see two parachutes? I can only see one. It has been more-or-less established that this video is of Wing Commander Abhinandan's downing.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Mar 2019 23:39

Did an Indian MiG-21 Shoot Down a Pakistani F-16? A Look at the Bison’s Capabilities and Prospects for a Successful Air to Air Kill

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Mar 2019 23:43

Indians Blast NYT for "Biased" Reporting on Aerial Dogfight Between MiG-21, F-16

disha · Post by **disha** » 05 Mar 2019 00:11

Zaid Hamid came out in full support of the nytimes article and is mentioned in the link below.

Austin wrote:Indians Blast NYT for "Biased" Reporting on Aerial Dogfight Between MiG-21, F-16

Zaid Hamid is the Barkha Dutt of Bakistan (Darkha Butt's mirror image in Bakistan. I am dyslexic onlee...). Whatever he touches crumbles. Zaid Hamid has bhasmasura touch and I am rooting for him to become the next PM of Bakistan.

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 05 Mar 2019 00:15

TRAGIC TO NOTE DOWNED PAF F-16 PILOT'S DEATH YET TO BE RECOGNISED BY PAK GOVT
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2019/03 ... ilots.html

John · Post by **John** » 05 Mar 2019 00:21

Austin wrote:Indians Blast NYT for "Biased" Reporting on Aerial Dogfight Between MiG-21, F-16

As I mentioned this is nothing new back during Russian strikes in Syria. NYT time ran articles about how all Russian cruise missiles missed their targets and hit only civilians even state dept dismissed it. Along with oped about how this enflame radical Islam.

chola · Post by **chola** » 05 Mar 2019 00:36

neeraj wrote:
TRAGIC TO NOTE DOWNED PAF F-16 PILOT'S DEATH YET TO BE RECOGNISED BY PAK GOVT
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2019/03 ... ilots.html

Remember to bring up Shahzaz Ud Din when you see Bakis lauding “Noman” and “Hassan” the supposedly victorious JF-17 pilots. These are the names they are intent on pushing as heros. We need to add Din to the conversation. “No Man (Ali Khan)” is a conveniently laughable name for one of the shootdown claims.