MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

habal · Post by **habal** » 11 Mar 2019 21:31

It is such a small club, that most guys will know each other intimately. Then again Hassan Siddiqui also flew under w/c shehbaz haider ali (is this a shia ?) and the atmosphere around this small club would be so gloomy after loosing one of their senior most and most decorated colleagues as well as the refusal of jernails of TSPA to acknowledge this loss would be devastating to the team as a whole.

Now looking back the entire body language of hassan mahmood siddiqui after shooting amraams, claiming kill and lobbing glide bombs at Brigade HQ still looked gloomy while giving his 'V', a very disinterested V it looked like.

SidSoma · Post by **SidSoma** » 11 Mar 2019 21:41

dunno if this has been posted
http://www.defencenews.in/article/India ... eas-583538

Owing to the bureaucratic delays, we could not develop blast pens for Su-30 MKIs near the Line of Control (LoC). The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) sanctioned the project only at the end of 2017,” the source said. Hence, the jets could not be forward-deployed along the LoC, and they were scrambled from behind to intercept the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) jets that tried to bomb Indian military installations, the official said, explaining why the MiG-21 jets were the first responders during the aerial combat a day after the Balakot air strikes

habal · Post by **habal** » 11 Mar 2019 21:41

Another small fact is that there may well be other pilots in no19 sherdils, both bearded and majority unbearded but it is these experienced small club of elites that would hog most of the 'seat time', it is, these elite pilots who would form cliques and this small elite group will be doing most of the flying & missions.

these guys would have seen the most combat by force of hogging maximum air time and missions as possible, the rest would well be doing off-duty hours and graveyard shifts. So seeing new jocks on such important missions such as cross border attack would be highly unlikely. So 9/10 the guy who gets shot down early in war is bound to be pretty senior and way up the pecking order.

habal · Post by **habal** » 11 Mar 2019 21:53

there is another footage of w/c shehbaz haider ali flying an f16 solo in an airshow at karachi sea front on pakistan day or something.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Mar 2019 22:06

Rishi wrote:
manjgu wrote:i beleive anybody who maintains Mig 21 or F16 can easily tell from the engine pic as to the real identity??
The only non-MiG21 part from videos and pix so far seems to be the drop tank. Everything else has been traced to the MiG. (Please correct me if I am wrong?)

the engine casing also belongs to PW engine, not the Mig and while PA is loading the drop tank into the truck there is also piece of dark grey/ green fuselage being recovered, that also does belong to the Mig. There were also photos of PA truck with fuselage of an aircraft. We know the Mig 21 wreckage videos that it was placed for more than a day for Paki TV crews to come and take videos. So the aircraft fuselage loaded on to PA army truck belongs to another aircraft

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 11 Mar 2019 22:07

The f16 crashed under Bimber police station of POK very likely

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/b ... 2019-03-11

Jayram · Post by **Jayram** » 11 Mar 2019 22:23

Shivaji wrote:This video from India today has its Pakistani reporter visiting Mig 21 crash site. Can be of help to understand geography of the region. Has interaction with local as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7blwdy ... e=youtu.be

Apologies if already posted.

Great Video.. No sign of burnt patch on the ground.. Seems like a open and shut case of F16

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 12 Mar 2019 00:03

https://twitter.com/Noetic_Karma/status ... 3617768451

भगुरायण
‏ @Noetic_Karma
2h2 hours ago

"where is second pilot"
"up there with (Pak)army"
Third pilot, probably beaten dead.

See the video. can someone translate.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2019 01:41

About this IndiaTodin claims:

The Bhimber police official didn't deny the aircraft wreck. Instead, he obeyed the command when asked to guard the site where the jet came down after it was hit by an Indian fighter plane.
"This is Captain Haneef. Go to the place where the Pakistani jet crashed and see to it that no foreign journalists reach there," the reporter asked the police official.
"Okay," he replied.
"I am talking about the spot where the Pakistani jet has crashed. Nobody should know that our plane crashed," the undercover journalist continued.
"Okay ji, okay, okay," answered the PoK official.

Gentle pooch: Do POKis say "JI" to Pakis? Isn't that desi/yindoo? Don't they say Hujoor or something like that? Maybe POKi polis are not as stupid as India Todin Captain Haneef?

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 12 Mar 2019 02:00

sivab wrote:https://twitter.com/Noetic_Karma/status ... 3617768451

SNIP

See the video. can someone translate.

This is what I could hear/understand:

- Mera weapon do. (Give my weapon)
- Rasta chodo. (Clear the road)
- Doosra banda abhi. Doosra kidhar hai - Doosra udhar hai. (Now the second guy. Where is the second guy? The second guy is there)
- Upar hi hai. (Still up there?)
- Hands up hai to marna nahi chahiye. (If his hands are up you should not hit/kill him)
- Fellow in black - Aisa kiya usne. (points his fingers like a gun?)
- **** fire karta **** seedha marenge ****

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 12 Mar 2019 02:06

UlanBatori wrote:Gentle pooch: Do POKis say "JI" to Pakis? Isn't that desi/yindoo? Don't they say Hujoor or something like that? Maybe POKi polis are not as stupid as India Todin Captain Haneef?

Ji is quite common.

viveks · Post by **viveks** » 12 Mar 2019 03:12

Vijeta...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdP9FOXQ-yQ&t=5824s

Rajaraja · Post by **Rajaraja** » 12 Mar 2019 04:01

Wish some journal picks this up.

These are the first 5-6 pictures that come for “f16 ejection” in google images.

What do you notice about the default parachute colours ?

And then the villagers noted 3 parachutes with ‘Indian flag’ colours . No wonder there was a mistaken identity of the pak pilot getting killed by villagers.

http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article1358.html

https://www.edwards.af.mil/News/Article ... te-system/

http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article1358.html

http://www.fox26houston.com/news/246830557-video

See at. 10:06

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/loca ... 41923.html. see at 0:55

http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php ... 3&start=15

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 12 Mar 2019 04:20

Orange and white parachute in this russion crash too..

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 12 Mar 2019 05:53

Bhimber district is shown in this image. Horran - where the Mig 21 came down - also falls under this district. The Indian areas of Jhangar, Bohani and Khamba where the Indian eye witnesses saw a jet come down is also adjacent to it

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 12 Mar 2019 05:59

https://youtu.be/ZYovshRQFIc

Folks, can anyone see this video and comment? This seems like a new video

1. Are there 2 parachutes?

2. At the end the videomaker says "chattri India ki lag rahi hai"

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 12 Mar 2019 06:11

sivab wrote:https://twitter.com/Noetic_Karma/status ... 3617768451

Is WC Abhinandan in this vehicle? In the back seat do you see a guy in the middle

I checked another video of him in the car (which i will not post) where the guy in red is sitting in front and a guy in black is sitting on the right side of him.

So it seems after this all of them were going towards the 2nd pilot. It was on a motarable road and they were going on the opposite direction of where they took him

In the map, Hooran seems to have one motarable road if i am not mistaken? One can take a look at the hills in the video towards which the crowd is going and get a bearing

When the vehicle sped away, it crossed trees. Also WC Abhinandan was ultimately caught near a stream. He landed 300 meters from the Mig 21.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2019 06:42

viveks wrote:Vijeta...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdP9FOXQ-yQ&t=5824s

Wow! That is really good. Cool video of flaps deploying and MiG21 landing.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2019 06:45

Rishi wrote: Folks, can anyone see this video and comment? This seems like a new video
1. Are there 2 parachutes?
2. At the end the videomaker says "chattri India ki lag rahi hai"

99% probability that parts or all are fake. Voices are waaaaaay too calm to be those of ppl actually watching parachutes come off a combat aircraft that is downed. They should be asking, where is the plane? (it could be heading straight for their heads...) Instead they sound like ppl watchigng TV. Could be ppl watching reruns of video from Twitter.

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 12 Mar 2019 06:56

The jets may have crashed before that... the jet was hurtling down very fast... and parachutes take time coming down...

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 12 Mar 2019 07:05

UlanBatori wrote:
Rishi wrote: Folks, can anyone see this video and comment? This seems like a new video
1. Are there 2 parachutes?
2. At the end the videomaker says "chattri India ki lag rahi hai"
99% probability that parts or all are fake. Voices are waaaaaay too calm to be those of ppl actually watching parachutes come off a combat aircraft that is downed. They should be asking, where is the plane? (it could be heading straight for their heads...) Instead they sound like ppl watchigng TV. Could be ppl watching reruns of video from Twitter.

Prof Batori,

If this is fake (and it maybe) it is tremendous effort.. doesn't sound scripted. And a "fake vid" like this doesn't add to anything other than sow more confusion.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 12 Mar 2019 07:09

sudeepj wrote:
UlanBatori wrote:Gentle pooch: Do POKis say "JI" to Pakis? Isn't that desi/yindoo? Don't they say Hujoor or something like that? Maybe POKi polis are not as stupid as India Todin Captain Haneef?
Ji is quite common.

Agree with sudeepj. 'ji' and 'janaab' are common expressions on Paki TV. 'Huzoor' is only heard in old Bollywood Lakhnawi Muslim serials

, not in colloqial Urdu either in India or Pakistan.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 12 Mar 2019 07:12

Kakkaji wrote:
sudeepj wrote: Ji is quite common.
Agree with sudeepj. 'ji' and 'janaab' are common expressions on Paki TV. 'Huzoor' is only heard in old Bollywood Lakhnawi Muslim period movies , not in colloqial Urdu either in India or Pakistan.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2019 07:19

U phorgot BENIS.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Mar 2019 07:22

Rishi wrote: If this is fake (and it maybe) it is tremendous effort.. doesn't sound scripted. And a "fake vid" like this doesn't add to anything other than sow more confusion.

You try imagining it. An air battle going on, planes getting shot down and parachutes coming down right b4 ur eyes: AT LEAST I would have expected to hear several AOA! shouts. Experience of watching Syrian War videos. These guys seem almost sleepy.
Also compare with videos posted in Malloostan Flood thread, of ppl watching a landslide developing. No way humans can keep from getting excited watchihg history in the making.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 12 Mar 2019 07:23

Rishi wrote:https://youtu.be/ZYovshRQFIc

Folks, can anyone see this video and comment? This seems like a new video

1. Are there 2 parachutes?

2. At the end the videomaker says "chattri India ki lag rahi hai"

Dogri !!!
A guy repeatedly says "Trae banda aye"
"Trae" = 3
These guys saw 3 parachutes.

They say so many times on the video, there are three parachutes. One behind and two in front of them.

Virender11 · Post by **Virender11** » 12 Mar 2019 07:48

nam wrote:Look mama what I found.. with dates

Can someone save it before it gets taken down...

Same two story red brick mansion above in this video at 2:48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7blwdy ... e=youtu.be

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Mar 2019 08:13

could that be a F16 centerline tank?
the tank in pic is upside down

refer to the 370 model

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Mar 2019 08:20

mig21 drop tanks are very slim and supersonic rated as you all know.
and its unlikely a ORP point defence scramble would take off with drop tanks.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 12 Mar 2019 08:36

we need to compare drop tanks for bunder, and Mirage as well. They were in the area, and must have jettisoned during egress.

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 12 Mar 2019 09:40

Kakkaji wrote:
Bishwa wrote:At 4sec in https://www.samaa.tv/video/2019/02/watc ... bhinandan/

he says something like "chatri hawa me ghoom rahi thi... teen chatri.. ak chali gayi XXX ki tarfa.. ak hamari gau me giri hai..."

What is XXX that he said?

His gau is Horran Kotla
I swear I saw a video immediately after the Feb 27 dogfight, that seemed to be shot by a cell phone video, and showed 3 parachutes coming down from the sky. I don't remember which channel it was on.

Another theory. 3 parachutes came down. Abhinandan was captured but as we all know he did not fire his pistol and kept quiet, PA folks captured him.

Two Pakistani F-16 pilot came down in tricolor parachutes, thought they may have landed in India, fired off a few rounds at folks coming to capture them. At least one was shot dead by some enterprising POK guys in response. One Pilot landed and was captured, tried to be too clever by half, asked his capturers where he landed, Capturers played a fast one and responded India (thinking that the tricolor parachute implied Indian pilot) and Pak Pilot thinking he was in soup started Jai Hind NareBaazi and got shot dead.

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 12 Mar 2019 09:46

I think only one of the pilots was killed, the other is probably recovering at some hospital while he and his family are quarantined.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Mar 2019 09:47

Wouldnt PAF pilot landing in Kashmir would be safe too as they are majority muslim population in there ......Pilot would have a rough idea where they have landed because they are trained for these things.

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 12 Mar 2019 09:47

Rishi wrote:https://youtu.be/ZYovshRQFIc

Folks, can anyone see this video and comment? This seems like a new video

1. Are there 2 parachutes?

2. At the end the videomaker says "chattri India ki lag rahi hai"

The upper parachute maybe the drouge chute from high alt ejection, lower one is the pilot. Lower chute looks tricolour?

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 12 Mar 2019 10:11

FYI the Bison loss at Bikaner - Pilot landing video.

Note: Canopy of the chute looks Orange and greenish from afar, and white from up close?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 12 Mar 2019 10:13

Nice video , It is risky to even land even if successfully ejected because of high tension wire etc

viveks · Post by **viveks** » 12 Mar 2019 10:18

Youngsters are so smart these days...they have turned a spectacle of the indo-pak conflict of the kashmir issue. Immediately there is an idea to capture video...

....Cudos to them...laluje hai sala to our leaders who have disavowed their ability to solve this kashmir crises.

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 12 Mar 2019 10:25

Austin wrote:Wouldnt PAF pilot landing in Kashmir would be safe too as they are majority muslim population in there ......Pilot would have a rough idea where they have landed because they are trained for these things.

Border areas of J&K are Shia and have plenty of reasons to be upset at Pakistani armed forces. In any case what happens if you have gun wielding folks coming at you with every intention of lynching you since they think you are an Indian pilot. If you have ejected at high altitude the wind could have blown you eastwards, you would be a little disoriented from the ejection. When you see these folks coming at you perhaps even taking taking pot shots at you, you would return fire.

samsher · Post by **samsher** » 12 Mar 2019 10:37

tandav wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:

Another theory. 3 parachutes came down. Abhinandan was captured but as we all know he did not fire his pistol and kept quiet, PA folks captured him.

How do you know this? Was this info in the public domain? That info would only be in his official debrief report at the Sqn or perhaps Command level and would be classified. Highly unlikely we would know details of the mission debrief this quickly. Until then everything, from his taking off from ORP to his ejection, is pure speculation.
Unless...I am missing something

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Mar 2019 11:05

One more thing, when the US was selling and upgrading Paki F-16's decade back, they said they will not update the threat library for Nato aircraft, i.e lock ons from NATO aircraft will not register on RWR etc. This was supposedly for Osama Bin Laden raid situations when US F-18's were ready to engage F-16's taking off from Sargodha.

Any idea if M-2000 with Metoer+ MICA and EL 2032 with Derby can also get this benefit? Any chances that No 45 squadron is also being deployed near the Paki borders now?

Another sad aspect is this crash site is just 4-5 km from the LOC in Horran Village, a different wind direction and these Pilots may have all landed in our side of the LOC.