MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

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Bishwa
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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Bishwa » 03 May 2019 10:51

https://twitter.com/bishwa55900127/stat ... 0046320640

On 27th Feb, 2019, atleast two pilots ejected into POK. one was Wg Cdr Abhinandan from a Mig 21 Bison. The second (aka Doosra Banda) has been talked about by people in POK but we have not seen him so far.A video posted in you tube shows a pilot ejecting in a location far from Abhinandans know location. We reconstructed the landscape of the video and geo located it. It shows a puff of smoke, a parachute and a debris falling.and the direction is in general line of Khuiratta - Chowk Sahiban in POK. This is very far from Abhinandans known location shown as Parachute 2 in this image. This proves that a second pilot (Doosra Banda) indeed ejected in POK on Feb 27th
Last edited by Bishwa on 03 May 2019 17:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 03 May 2019 14:51

Bishwa wrote:https://twitter.com/bishwa55900127/status/112392121004632064

On 27th Feb, 2019, atleast two pilots ejected into POK. one was Wg Cdr Abhinandan from a Mig 21 Bison. The second (aka Doosra Banda) has been talked about by people in POK but we have not seen him so far.A video posted in you tube shows a pilot ejecting in a location far from Abhinandans know location. We reconstructed the landscape of the video and geo located it. It shows a puff of smoke, a parachute and a debris falling.and the direction is in general line of Khuiratta - Chowk Sahiban in POK. This is very far from Abhinandans known location shown as Parachute 2 in this image. This proves that a second pilot (Doosra Banda) indeed ejected in POK on Feb 27th


Twitter states Topic does not exist and why is the topic open again?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Bishwa » 03 May 2019 16:55

Aditya, Not sure i understand what you wrote

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby chola » 03 May 2019 17:01

Bishwa wrote:Aditya, Not sure i understand what you wrote


Sir, did you tweet this? The link leads to a "Not found" error page.

That name Doosra Banda doesn't sound quite right...

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Bishwa » 03 May 2019 17:05

Chola, Thanx for pointing it out... the last 0 was missing

https://twitter.com/bishwa55900127/stat ... 0046320640

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Lalmohan » 03 May 2019 17:22

chola wrote:That name Doosra Banda doesn't sound quite right...


means "Second Guy" it was a phrase used by one of the adbuls who was filming early on

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby A_Gupta » 04 May 2019 20:41

Another youtube, some footage I had not seen earlier, footage from the Indian side of the LoC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTFEVcpKShQ


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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 04 May 2019 20:59

A_Gupta wrote:Another youtube, some footage I had not seen earlier, footage from the Indian side of the LoC.

:rotfl: I think I recognize the source. 4000% accurate onlee.
Last edited by UlanBatori on 04 May 2019 21:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby A_Gupta » 04 May 2019 21:19

:D

Periodically look for fresh video. As Paki curbs on PoK internet are lifted, as they eventually must, we can hope that someone has something saved and that that something leaks out.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby habal » 04 May 2019 21:38

where is abhi's wingman and why do we not have his version about what happened ?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby vimal » 04 May 2019 21:51

hmm thought this thread is locked now

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Leonard » 04 May 2019 23:50

Interesting article & analysis ..

>>
In PAF lies & subterfuge, an F-16 tail number & a PAF pilot  —  both hidden to serve a myth

https://theprint.in/defence/in-paf-lies-subterfuge-an-f-16-tail-number-a-paf-pilot-%E2%80%8A-%E2%80%8Aboth-hidden-to-serve-a-myth/218125/

From the comments section -- the pakis are blowing anal darts ... :rotfl:

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Manish_Sharma » 05 May 2019 01:55

Wing Commander Abhinandan discharged from hospital, here's the video clipping:

https://twitter.com/MajorPoonia/status/ ... 12481?s=19

Welcome back Fighter
Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman has been discharged from hospital,declared fit to resume duties.
Buddy,Best Wishes,Fly high and fly with same passion and fighting spirit..Cheers
Jai Hind @IAF_MCC https://t.co/kTzHJacRkO

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 05 May 2019 17:25

I see that the aam-abdul claim has surfaced again with this detailed analysis. Loved the Color Analysis showing precise fragmentation patterns of the R-73, and the new "front-aspect R-73 shot" where the F-17 cockpit completely escaped the cylindrical expanding rods and then shattered the rest of the F-16. :roll:

Far away from the rest of the donkey-pack, with a MiG-21 in close combat with their own F-16, an aam-abdul just came screaming up at 70 degrees behind the MiG-21 traveling Mach 2.x under War Emergency Power, at a fairly low altitude. (So how fast was this aam-abdul traveling?)

It knew that it should turn around at the LOC and return westwards, to hit the MiG several km inside. Or maybe it was returning home to Sargodha, Mission Completed, yindoos terrified into submission.

It hit the MiG at 70-degrees angle and cleanly broke off the tail section so that the rest of the airplane floated down like a feather and stayed horizontal by Djinn Aerodynamic Stability. That's right, the tail section is just there so that the yindoos have a nice signboard to put their flag and number: it is totally non-essential for longitudinal stability.

The nose stayed so horizontal that the long probe (whatever is above the nose, see wreckage photo) did not even bend due to the impact. As rigid as the mijjile of DGISPR on seeing Brinjej Ayesha grazing on the hillside. :roll:

So this pic shows long shadows, which means late afternoon. The takeaways for me from this "analysis" are
1) First time I am seeing a photo from up front showing the rigid mijjile probe, and where the curving path cut through the trees by the skidding wreckage is visible. Looks like this ground is higher than that at the back (left) end of the pic where it seems to fall off rapidly. So the tail pieces that we saw b4 with the Pakis standing around scratching their golas in front of a camp-like building, must have been torn off by tree impact at a slightly lower level. This answers the terrain differences.

2) Clear mention of the frantic efforts of PA to remove the wreckage - to suit their narratives. The author says that they messed up and posted photos of F-16 wreckage as well, before realizing that was what it was. Can't disagree there. But this also shows how the MiG tail pieces appeared so conveniently on the grass in front of the Gola-Scratching Camp.

Otherwise the article is a mess: 2 parachutes? 3 parachutes? two pilots? 3 pilots? Bearded? Cap confused with beard? Moustache confused with beard? Why - when it is PAF that permits bearded pilots? IAF just permits moustaches longer than Veerappan's.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby tandav » 06 May 2019 06:38

Is it possible that the PAF F-16 luckily fell into Mangla Dam or some Lake in the Area? This would explain the lack of more pieces of wreckage.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 06 May 2019 06:47

The Yeti carried it away - along with Brinjej Ayesha.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rakesh » 07 May 2019 03:12

https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/statu ... 0297809920 ---> This is fun! A new tongue-in-cheek morale patch for the IAF's Flanker drivers. Designed by Saurav Jain, who's done loads of excellent patch work for IAF units in the recent past, including Vayu Shakti 2019.

Image

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby A_Gupta » 08 May 2019 16:33

One more video from you-know-who.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSuIAOH4UdQ


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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 08 May 2019 17:05

Who is this cybersurg-> seems like some old Doctor in Bengluru making all these posts, probably worked in England during the 1980's, was he ever a Predator.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 09 May 2019 11:23

One more thing, the Amraam debris displayed by the IAf, which was based on an injury to a villager near Rajouri and taken by a local policemen, based on the area, dont think it is one of the 5 which missed the Su30- but one which missed/ran out of energy chasing ABhi's wingman.

I hope by now we have debris of multiple Amraam's, and we can defuse the Pakistani ordinance and the IAF can make a public display of various Bombs and missiles used by the PAF on the morning of Feb 27. They came to hit us hard, that is why a Senior PAF person published a recording of Hassan Siddiqui.

The PAF came with a Block D(block 52) F-16 with LGB's , it was probably there best 6 aircraft for a strike which was lost that day.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rishi » 09 May 2019 11:31

Isn't that "Hassan Siddiqui" recording is fake / psyops?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 09 May 2019 11:42

Rishi wrote:Isn't that "Hassan Siddiqui" recording is fake / psyops?


Might be possible, they mighted wanted to prove he was alive.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Manish_P » 09 May 2019 14:40

Aditya_V wrote:Who is this cybersurg-> seems like some old Doctor in Bengluru making all these posts, probably worked in England during the 1980's, was he ever a Predator.


:shock: A veteran BRF-ite like you.. Ah i think you are speaking in jest.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 09 May 2019 14:48

I am speaking jest only, we all know Docji and have been well educated by him on certain aspects

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Manish_P » 09 May 2019 14:53

:) The good Hakeem is socking it to them on twitter. Too bad he doesn't visit these forums now a days

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby chola » 09 May 2019 17:03

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/zone5aviation/status/1124210460297809920 ---> This is fun! A new tongue-in-cheek morale patch for the IAF's Flanker drivers. Designed by Saurav Jain, who's done loads of excellent patch work for IAF units in the recent past, including Vayu Shakti 2019.


We need a "F-Solah Kill" badge for the Bison units!

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby krish.pf » 16 May 2019 05:10

Karan M wrote:
krish.pf wrote:Kopyo has relativy decent scan angles. And at a distance, I doubt f-16 can manuever out of the cone quicker than a bison turning the nose a few degrees to compensate. Jamming is a very real possibility.
And no need to get worked up. I'm not questioning his war fighting capabilities.
SOP of not firing R-77s in an interception during the close in? And I doubt he 'felt' that decision.


Kopyo has scan angles of +/-40. Limited by it's small sized cone. A range of 50 odd km for a 5 sq mtr target. Think that through. The pilot has to work the radar, lock on, maneuver without losing the radar plot.

I am not getting worked up, merely pointing out how absurd it is to figure out why an experienced pilot who knows his weapons systems in and out chose a particular system when the data is so sparse about his choice.

Forget jamming, he may have wanted to conduct an entirely stealthy attack having visually located his target. Then what?

A million possibilities exist and you are jumping around fixated on the R77 when Its quite likely the pilot chose the R73E because he felt it had a greater chance of success based on his own skills/prior exercise experience/tech specs of the system or a myriad other possibilities!

40 degrees is still a decent scan angle when you have awacs and gci to back you up. He is not scanning for enemy, he already knows where the approximate location of enemy is because of GCI and AWACS. And +- 40 deg at R-77 nez distances, would effortlessly put a F-16 long enough in it's cone for a lock and fire.
Yes a million scenarios exist but the probability of neglecting a longer range missile in favor of a shorter ranged one is still very low. The thing which makes the most sense is he went in without turning on his radar, and locked on his fox-2, as fox-3s would alert the enemy rwr. Like R-73, R-77s can also be launched without turning on the radar, by directly turning on the missile radar at short ranges. But he didn't want to alert the enemy and chose a passive seeker instead. During the cold war days MiG-29s would employ the same tactic during CAP. They would use GCI and terrain to sneak up on NATO aircraft and keep tracking them using their IRST with R-73s on the ready.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rishirishi » 16 May 2019 06:03

Is this real? It is claimed to be the f-16 shot down. If the footage a true, then it is a F-16 for sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTmFjbuAo9g&feature=youtu.be

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby manjgu » 16 May 2019 06:29

looks different from previous available footage ... calls for a forensic analysis...

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 16 May 2019 06:30

Interesting. Plus they have faked the Feb.28 posting date if they faked the other stuff. But did u notice that there was no evidence of two ejection seats shooting out? Which means they had already ejected. Which is exactly what UBCN said.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Davidrock » 16 May 2019 07:01

Rishirishi wrote:Is this real? It is claimed to be the f-16 shot down. If the footage a true, then it is a F-16 for sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTmFjbuAo9g&feature=youtu.be


This is interesting. The video is so clear, could be possible video from any old F-16 crash or shotdowns.

But most interesting point is it matches with the statement of villagers of sher makri (not sure if spelled correctly), who said that aag ka shola ban kar pahadi ke us par giri.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 16 May 2019 07:12

The two telephone lines across the sky match those in other videos showing the 2 parachutes, I believe. (not at all difficult to fake). Which I don't quite understand. Chances are that the parachutes came into the frame slowly, AFTER this video showing the F16 going down. May have been a couple of minutes later, so that the f-16 trails were long gone. The wind was blowing westwards, and the ejection seats would have significant momentum westwards until the chutes opened.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 16 May 2019 07:54

Rishirishi wrote:Is this real? It is claimed to be the f-16 shot down. If the footage a true, then it is a F-16 for sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTmFjbuAo9g&feature=youtu.be

When this video was originally posted some said it was a Russian Su 24 going down on the Syria Turkey border in 2016. This is profeesional video .i.e professional body and high end Dslr quality lens, not some random mobile video

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 16 May 2019 08:25

In that case it must be bogus, or taken in Turkey and edited with date etc. Yes, the plane looks more like an Su-25 than an F-16. But there also there was a pilot ejecting.

But look at this: claims to be of the same shootdown, but the terrain is totally different.

Oh wait! This is also claimed to be the initial video from 2015, of the Russian jet shot down by the Turkish F-16.That is exactly what was posted above as Pak F16 etc. So that Feb. 28 2019 date and the telephone wire setting are both bogus.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 16 May 2019 08:44

Recycled garbage infesting thread again. So the video posted, was the Russian Su-25 being shot down in 2015, but lifted and superposed on the 2-telephone wires scene where the initial Paki parachutes were seen. Who has this much interest in making these bogus things?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Jay » 16 May 2019 09:09

Rishirishi wrote:Is this real? It is claimed to be the f-16 shot down. If the footage a true, then it is a F-16 for sure



I think I saw this one before. If my memory serves me right, this is from Turkey/Syria/Russia conflict.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 16 May 2019 09:57

krish.pf wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Kopyo has scan angles of +/-40. Limited by it's small sized cone. A range of 50 odd km for a 5 sq mtr target. Think that through. The pilot has to work the radar, lock on, maneuver without losing the radar plot.

I am not getting worked up, merely pointing out how absurd it is to figure out why an experienced pilot who knows his weapons systems in and out chose a particular system when the data is so sparse about his choice.

Forget jamming, he may have wanted to conduct an entirely stealthy attack having visually located his target. Then what?

A million possibilities exist and you are jumping around fixated on the R77 when Its quite likely the pilot chose the R73E because he felt it had a greater chance of success based on his own skills/prior exercise experience/tech specs of the system or a myriad other possibilities!

40 degrees is still a decent scan angle when you have awacs and gci to back you up. He is not scanning for enemy, he already knows where the approximate location of enemy is because of GCI and AWACS. And +- 40 deg at R-77 nez distances, would effortlessly put a F-16 long enough in it's cone for a lock and fire.
Yes a million scenarios exist but the probability of neglecting a longer range missile in favor of a shorter ranged one is still very low. The thing which makes the most sense is he went in without turning on his radar, and locked on his fox-2, as fox-3s would alert the enemy rwr. Like R-73, R-77s can also be launched without turning on the radar, by directly turning on the missile radar at short ranges. But he didn't want to alert the enemy and chose a passive seeker instead. During the cold war days MiG-29s would employ the same tactic during CAP. They would use GCI and terrain to sneak up on NATO aircraft and keep tracking them using their IRST with R-73s on the ready.


At this point, your scenarios have several loopholes in them. There is no indication he was receiving updates from local GCI or AWACS, reports indicate that was due to R/T issues. The Kopyo range against a jamming F16 needs to be considered, not the standard full range under ideal conditions. Second, considering pilot workload, at best at such short ranges, reaction times, he'd set the radar to close combat mode which auto locks and provides bearing to CCM and go with that. Not sit and manually program the radar for specific sector search. His radar locked onto the F16 at 17km per ACM rtd Tipnis, and he went with the R73E as he felt it had a better chance of a kill with that missile under the circumstances. In fact, by locking the radar on, he might have well surmised the F16 expected a R77 and the R73E was the surprise. Or more simply put, the R73E maneuver envelope, Pk was better at the range considered.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rishi » 20 May 2019 01:32



Punjabi speakers (hold your puke at the bigoted introduction) and confirm what this guy says at 2 min onwards.

Video uploaded 27 Feb

Says 2 pilots..

1st one landed 15 min after his plane fell.. and Pak Army got to him immediately

2nd one was one with mooch (Abhi)

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby manjgu » 20 May 2019 07:53

y...he says that..2 pilots came down....hundreds on roof tops saw it...

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 20 May 2019 08:07

I wish they would start the Bye-Elections soon. Ppl have come back to dig up this stuff already. :roll:


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