MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby putnanja » 09 Sep 2019 09:15

manjgu wrote:babaji mixes fact and fiction with intentional grammatical errors ... gets the pakis in a tizzy..awesome stuff. let me see if i can get a certain individual to talk about the other 2 strikes. will take some time though...


True, he mixes facts & fictions. Some of the LoC attacks and pakis killed later showed up in news reports too. Wouldn't dismiss all of his tweets as fantasies. Guess the difficulty is separating wheat from the chaff

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Kashi » 09 Sep 2019 09:18

abhik wrote:It's all psyops, no need to take babaji very seriously onlee. And AFAIK no official sources have mentioned the two other strike locations - so let's not turn rumour to truth?


The 2002 trans-LoC striked by Mirage 2000s too were not mentioned by any official sources, nor were numerous Para SF strikes deep into Baki heartland. Also we wrested some other peaks along the LoC much after Kargil, they too did not make it to official discourse.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby sum » 09 Sep 2019 09:44

Zero doubt that 100% isn't fiction but the % of fact and fiction is tough to make out, I guess.

Mostly, actual events are real( it surely explains the furious Paki response on IA/IAF targets) but knowingly, typos and mistakes ( like Sudarshan LGB etc) are added to keep everyone guessing

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 09 Sep 2019 10:39

abhik wrote:It's all psyops, no need to take babaji very seriously onlee. And AFAIK no official sources have mentioned the two other strike locations - so let's not turn rumour to truth?


https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/india-news-indian-air-force-jets-drop-1000-kg-bombs-across-loc-destroy-terror-camps-reports/326137

May not be official but this is what the press was saying on 26-Feb-19 morning that after Balakot, Muzaffarabad and Chakoti. And Mr Gafoora's first tweet at 4:45 AM IST was IAF intruded in Muzaffarabad sector and retreated.

I think it is more than likely that Balakot was a sideshow and we hit their LY 80 and Miltary targets hard on 26-Feb-19, thats why the PAF had to show a force on 27-Feb-19.Otherwise just denial like surgical strike would have been enough.

Why does Imran Khan says dangerous plans like 26-Feb-19 are there with India- cause people of POK know what happened that morning?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby abhik » 09 Sep 2019 17:40

@Kashi and @Aditya_V saars, if the strike at other 2 locations did in fact happen, it will come out in chaiwalla, semi-official grapevine, books etc and heck maybe even a movie. Till then I'll at least discount such claims.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby yensoy » 09 Sep 2019 18:21

Actually the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that as the wise baba says, we did take out the 2 air defence targets en-route to Balakot (and of course kept quiet about it).

The reason for thinking so is the following: if you look at Wingco Abhi's flight path and that of his wingman, it is well within the PoK space. Had they been baited by the Pakis (as they surely would), they wouldn't have ventured into PoK for the rightful fear of being shot down by air defence. But they went into PoK, and it was only an AMRAAM that brought down the Mig-21 (after it took down the F-16).

So they had no fear of air defences, which would happen only if they were sure these were neutralized, which of course they were on the way to Balakot.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Katare » 09 Sep 2019 18:29

manjgu wrote:babaji mixes fact and fiction with intentional grammatical errors ... gets the pakis in a tizzy..awesome stuff. let me see if i can get a certain individual to talk about the other 2 strikes. will take some time though...

Manjgu.......your source appears to know his stuff.......info you posted before 370/35A removal was accurate. Keep it coming....

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ramana » 09 Sep 2019 21:39

abhik wrote:@Kashi and @Aditya_V saars, if the strike at other 2 locations did in fact happen, it will come out in chaiwalla, semi-official grapevine, books etc and heck maybe even a movie. Till then I'll at least discount such claims.


It came out the next day and even TSP actions indicated it. However GOI press conference wanted to emphasize the Balakot strike (nuke red line crossed) and subsequent Nowshera joust (AMRAAMs fired and F-16 used by Fizzleya- This was pointed to US).

If you trawl through the Balakot thread there are sporadic requests from members about the other two targets.

I think Baba is pointing to the use of LGBs at one of the sites. Don't worry about which one.

Use of LGB means visual laser pod line of contact. The other he says was a SPICE 2000.

I don't see it being a bunker buster version and could be the high explosive one.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby MeshaVishwas » 14 Sep 2019 22:38

And here comes the video of the "award ceremony".
I request all to watch this video as it is absolutely hilarious!
:rotfl:

Now the new 5Second Alam is Siddiqui.Expect him to be thrown under the bus shortly.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 15 Sep 2019 04:58

Pakistan's AF getting fairly radicalized. Allah this, Allah that while discussing ACM tactics.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby SSridhar » 15 Sep 2019 06:19

And, some of the foreign military attaches & diplomats applauding too! We have to note them down.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Khalsa » 15 Sep 2019 08:17

SSridhar wrote:And, some of the foreign military attaches & diplomats applauding too! We have to note them down.


Why SSridhar ... ???
What an absurd thing to focus on ....

When all of the world stands with us and vetoes pakistan attempts , do we want the same thing.
No please no.

Leave third part out of this. Focus on finishing the PAF.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Manish_Sharma » 15 Sep 2019 08:44

Khalsa wrote:
SSridhar wrote:And, some of the foreign military attaches & diplomats applauding too! We have to note them down.


Why SSridhar ... ???
What an absurd thing to focus on ....



Hmmmm

So noting down these porki supporter diplomats and military attaches triggers such a panic response from you.... interesting

But not surprising before also you had written post admiring porki tactics 27 feb implying they won contest
Last edited by ramana on 15 Sep 2019 21:54, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited by ramana. No sniping on fellow members. No need for that.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Manish_Sharma » 15 Sep 2019 08:48

Shiv Aroor (@ShivAroor) Tweeted:
Sir @PeaceForChange, Sargodha air base mein monument bananay walon ko theek se brief karna chahiye tha https://t.co/y0PYC5kBTW https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/11 ... 83010?s=17
:rotfl:
Check the video in the tweet IT SHOWS THE PORKI MONUMENT CLAIMING MIG 21 SHOT BY F16AM

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Nikhil T » 15 Sep 2019 12:10

PAF has also released video of its bomb honing into Narian Support Depo of the Indian Army at Naushera Sector. Possibly H2 or H4 bomb of Chinese origin.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby abhik » 15 Sep 2019 12:46

^^^
Any Links?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Sep 2019 14:16

Nikhil T wrote:PAF has also released video of its bomb honing into Narian Support Depo of the Indian Army at Naushera Sector. Possibly H2 or H4 bomb of Chinese origin.

South African Denel, it was called RAAD in PAF Service

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Sep 2019 14:18

Link from other thread
AdityaM wrote:PAF publishes target video

https://twitter.com/anasmallick/status/ ... 70720?s=21

ACTUAL video displayed by Pakistan Air Force today of 1 of the 4 targets where it had dropped 6 bombs on 27th Feb’19. The video was recorded from the weapon itself and is until the time of Impact. This video is of the Target of India’s Narian Arms Support Depo in Naushera Sector.



https://twitter.com/anasmallick/status/ ... 43907?s=21
While explaining the wreckage and rockets recovered from Abhinadan’s downed Mig-21 Bison by PAF on 27th Feb’19. “Any Independent analyst who wants to examine the wreckage and missiles of IAF's Mig-21 aircraft will be welcomed by PAF” says Air Marshal Haseeb Paracha, VC Ops PAF.



https://twitter.com/druzwa/status/11729 ... 26240?s=21
Actually found the reply from Paracha to be funny/witty. On being asked whether the Mig was shot by f16 or jf17, he answered how does it matter whether someone got hit by my left hand or right.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Khalsa » 15 Sep 2019 15:00

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Khalsa wrote:
Why SSridhar ... ???
What an absurd thing to focus on ....


Hmmmm
So noting down these porki supporter diplomats and military attaches triggers such a panic response from you.... interesting
But not surprising before also you had written post admiring porki tactics 27 feb implying they won contest


First of all the panic was in the post of the OP. For me .. Pakis can drive convoys of foreign media and defence attaches all day to Balakot to prove nothing happened. I will not not care. I know what the Saudis, Chinese, North Korean, Turks and the Jordanians lean towards.

I care for the fact that only China tried to move UN for Pakistan and our strategic leverage ensured veto came not from
Russia but also
France
England
America

Can you believe we have this... 4 of the 5 permanent UN members and world powers independently working in your favour against CHINA and PAK and you have got me noting down names of Major Ahmed of 2nd Armoured Regiment of Saudi and Captain Fei Hao Yow Meow of 9th Engineers of the PLA.

Like seriously Manish, how about we forget the pennies and count the pounds instead.

Next up ... me admiring Pakistani tactics.

I said it on day 1 and will say it till my last day.
The pakis could not dare kill a single Indian soldier with PAF, their bombings were deliberate where the bombs did glide across the LoC.
Killing a single Indian Army officer and blowing up an ammo dump in return for killing 9 pine trees would have been declaration of War.
Judging their tactics is not admiration my friend. Blind faith in their bombs not working reminds of Looney pakis who believe in their allah so much that kaffir bombs don't work over Pak co-ordinates.

On 27th their Air set up was all about bagging IAF into an ambush and they were semi lucky.

We all have a right to say our mind.
Don't treat uniformity as the pre-requisite for Unity. Thats the paki way. One religion , one allah, one ummah.

And while you have me painted as a possible Paki Lover.
I will say something else again for the record.
Both the air forces intercepted each others comms big times. They heard our Sukhois and Mig pilots.
We heard their JF-17 and F-16 pilots radio traffic.

There were enough air intel assets in the air to listen to my mothers whatsApp calls that day.

By the way ... Modi and Amit Shah won the real contest which even Xi Xi and Niazi did not see coming.
Now that is thinking this country did not see since 1948

Now lets get on with life it and keep on pushing the envelope forward please manish.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 15 Sep 2019 15:21

Khalsa wrote:
SSridhar wrote:And, some of the foreign military attaches & diplomats applauding too! We have to note them down.


Why SSridhar ... ???
What an absurd thing to focus on ....

When all of the world stands with us and vetoes pakistan attempts , do we want the same thing.
No please no.

Leave third part out of this. Focus on finishing the PAF.


Khalsa, the diplomats who are applauding all this rubbish are relevant because they are either ideologically similar to TSP, or will become part of the TSP propaganda campaign. Bears keeping in mind.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby SSridhar » 15 Sep 2019 15:30

Manish_Sharma wrote:Shiv Aroor (@ShivAroor) Tweeted:
Sir @PeaceForChange, Sargodha air base mein monument bananay walon ko theek se brief karna chahiye tha https://t.co/y0PYC5kBTW https://twitter.com/ShivAroor/status/11 ... 83010?s=17
:rotfl:
Check the video in the tweet IT SHOWS THE PORKI MONUMENT CLAIMING MIG 21 SHOT BY F16AM

The trouble is one can't keep lying, for truth has an uncanny ability to surface !!

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby MeshaVishwas » 15 Sep 2019 17:10

Aditya_V wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:PAF has also released video of its bomb honing into Narian Support Depo of the Indian Army at Naushera Sector. Possibly H2 or H4 bomb of Chinese origin.

South African Denel, it was called RAAD in PAF Service

It is the Denel Raptor 1&2 (~60Km and ~120 Km range respectively) licence built in Terroristan as the Hafr 2 and 4.
RAAD is their designated Nuke capable ALCM. Interestingly only their 50 year old Mirages can use them. :lol:
Some info on the weapon:
The Raptor II system flies autonomously to the target and is then designated on the intended point of impact by the operator.

The Communications Pod is mounted on the launch aircraft or on a second aircraft, which allows for the control of the weapon over a separation distance of up to 200 km. A set of cockpit display symbology indicates weapon and mission status.

The weapon allows for two methods of operation, depending on the Seeker used:

The weapon will fly autonomously to the target. The operator designates the precise point of impact by means of an advanced auto-tracker.
Fire-and-forget GNSS/INS aided navigation

http://www.deneldynamics.co.za/products ... /raptor-ii
Very impressive system by Denel.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Sep 2019 20:46

Pakistan came to hit military Targets, they thought international players would have got involved and they would have had the last say. This has been their experience so Indian Politician would not dare escalate. This has been their experience. When it went wrong they shut down airspace for 5 months.

They wanted Indian military causalities and the Foreign Governments were already pressing the descalation button on us that's why the nonsensical ROE from our end that morning.

Oncebthier PGMs missed they had to hide their military causalities on 26 Feb 19 morning. If it had been a success then could have given their dead soldiers a proper funeral

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby yensoy » 15 Sep 2019 21:06

1. Please no friendly fire. This is not acceptable. Nobody is a pakpasand here, least of all Khalsa IMHO.
2. Baba has recently said that our first 2 bomb drops in Chakoti and Muzaffarabad took out their air defence units, and I can see the truth in it. This explains our disregard for the LoC (all the aerial action on the next day took place across the LoC), and the 5 month airspace shutdown. Regardless, our incursion all the way into Balakot was there on the record for all to see, and they had to respond.
3. Pakis clearly couldn't escalate this time, unlike the previous attempts where they would escalate to pull in the big powers. Times have changed, India has changed (in case this hasn't been noticed), the West especially US has changed; China is known to be a party to the dispute and therefore its opinion will not count.
4. Proof that Pakis couldn't escalate is obvious from Wingco's prompt return.
5. Their glide bombs were deliberately not aimed to damage (although it is concerning to me that our ammo dumps could be easily taken out with an H-4 grade weapon).

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Sep 2019 21:44

I don't know who has accused Khalsa but a record of my posts would show I have not accused anyone. But this deliberate miss is face saving strategy. They wanted to control the escalation ladder and wanted to show what if India acted tough. It flopped for them. They were expecting an airstrike and had planned Pulwama accordingly, IAF competence and PAF incompetence was a surprise for them.

From their point of view they expected India painted as villain for 26 Feb 19 strikes and we would be forced to dial down thanks to international leaders sitting on our heads.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ramana » 15 Sep 2019 21:57

There was no deliberate miss. If you read the Denel description the SOW needs guidance from the launching plane and if that breaks off it goes awry.
Abhinandan scramble made the guidance plane break off.

BTW the H-2/H-4/RAAD is updated Nazi Hs 293 and nothing more.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby yensoy » 15 Sep 2019 22:19

That's a relief to hear that there was no deliberate miss with the H-4 and it is just an inaccurate weapon. How does Abhi's scramble mess with the guidance? Were these in the same place at the same time? Couldn't the pakis have used something better in their arsenal?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 15 Sep 2019 22:45

PAF most reliable weapons are F16 launched LGB and GBU. The JF 17 83 REK and Mirage launched H4 were between 10:02 to 10:08, when these missed at around 10:18 to 10:20 the 3 strike F16 came close/marginally crossing the LOC, the twin seat F16 launched the LGB at the Brigade HQ at Noweshara and turned with full afterburners. This was the aircraft intercepted by Wing Commander who unfortunately got shot down by one of the Mangla Dam F16s. While his wingman was also shot at by an Amraaan. The chance for these 3 F16 to come close to the LOC was because at 10:16 the mangla Dam 4 F16's launched around 4-5 Amraams at the SU30MKI which had to take evasive action. By 10:24 all PAF aircraft were deep with Pakistan.

American weapons are the most reliable but are preserved by the PAF. As the tap for maintenance can be shut off due to Indian pressure, hence they first tried the Denel H2 and H4

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Sanju » 15 Sep 2019 23:17

Chakothi and Muzzafarabad strikes were acknowledged by the then Def. Min. Mrs. NS. In a live Televised Press Conference.

Madam mentioned that question(s) on those two strikes shouldn't be asked today and maybe asked at a later date. That She wasn't at liberty to speak about it.

There were some new reports attributing to bombing of Muzzafarabad, as the Mumbai attackers had trained there.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby MeshaVishwas » 16 Sep 2019 00:00

Aditya_V wrote:PAF most reliable weapons are F16 launched LGB and GBU. The JF 17 83 REK and Mirage launched H4 were between 10:02 to 10:08, when these missed at around 10:18 to 10:20 the 3 strike F16 came close/marginally crossing the LOC, the twin seat F16 launched the LGB at the Brigade HQ at Noweshara and turned with full afterburners. This was the aircraft intercepted by Wing Commander who unfortunately got shot down by one of the Mangla Dam F16s. While his wingman was also shot at by an Amraaan. The chance for these 3 F16 to come close to the LOC was because at 10:16 the mangla Dam 4 F16's launched around 4-5 Amraams at the SU30MKI which had to take evasive action. By 10:24 all PAF aircraft were deep with Pakistan.

American weapons are the most reliable but are preserved by the PAF. As the tap for maintenance can be shut off due to Indian pressure, hence they first tried the Denel H2 and H4

Good summary.
IMO, the primary reason for the Raptor usage was the ability beam the footage for propaganda purposes.
This along with the BS that a high ranking Army officer was in the building at the time of the attack suggests that the VayuSena's aborted attack on 400% Musharraf in 1999 still stings.
Took them 20 years to attempt an attack on the LC by their jets whereas we are hitting Occupied Pakhtunisthan, "Pre emptively"!
:lol:

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Nikhil T » 16 Sep 2019 05:37

ramana wrote:There was no deliberate miss. If you read the Denel description the SOW needs guidance from the launching plane and if that breaks off it goes awry.
Abhinandan scramble made the guidance plane break off.

BTW the H-2/H-4/RAAD is updated Nazi Hs 293 and nothing more.


Not sure. Looked like a deliberate miss to me, the weapon was being pointed away from the facility from the beginning of the video and the video only turned off close to impact, indicating no hasty redirection. No big deal though, we know Pakis have stand off weapons and we will take a few hits if the balloon were to go up.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Vivek K » 16 Sep 2019 07:17

The main thing here is that Pakis now understand that there is no free loading left. India will respond to aggression by state and non-state actors. Response can take any form - strike by special forces or by IAF. Perhaps the IN will also be used in the future. The Pakis will be tripped by their own lies but now understand that India is locked and loaded, the sabre rattling by the warmonger Dimran Twit notwithstanding.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby yensoy » 16 Sep 2019 08:07

Couple of points after watching the Paki H4 video:
1. Our ammo dump is at 33.195312, 74.272841; this is protected from a northern attack by the hill but the south is wide open; wouldn't it have made more sense to build the dump to the north/east where the road goes N-S and the hilltop will lie on the western side?
2. It is clear that the attack was launched from the southern side, i.e. from Bhimber area - which is where another specimen had crashed after takeoff (on the Paki side, images are aplenty online).
3. Meanwhile, the major air action was to the north, in the Khuiratta/Nakyal area; so I don't fully understand why the H4s would have got jammed due to the air action.
4. It is still scary that the ammo dump is so vulnerable to a cheap/old weapon; it could very well have been a deliberate miss since the advertised CEP on this device is 3m and this looks like a shot across the bow. OTOH, a hit would have led to sure escalation by IA/IAF on Paki military targets. In that sense, the defence against attack of the ammo dump is a punitive response - however this doesn't look like good strategy given that ammo is essential to fight a war. Maybe the real stuff is buried inside the mountain rather in the sheds on it.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Sep 2019 10:21

Nikhil T wrote:
ramana wrote:There was no deliberate miss. If you read the Denel description the SOW needs guidance from the launching plane and if that breaks off it goes awry.
Abhinandan scramble made the guidance plane break off.

BTW the H-2/H-4/RAAD is updated Nazi Hs 293 and nothing more.


Not sure. Looked like a deliberate miss to me, the weapon was being pointed away from the facility from the beginning of the video and the video only turned off close to impact, indicating no hasty redirection. No big deal though, we know Pakis have stand off weapons and we will take a few hits if the balloon were to go up.


On the contrary this looks like a Guidance failure

1) Pakistanis from have been targeting our Ammo dumps and IA assets on the LOC since 1990

2) There is nothing achieved by PAF doing near misses, IA and IAF knew these were always can be targeted and hence the locations chosen for them.

3) In fact it showed the limitation of TV guided bombs which need the target aircraft to escort the Bomb pretty close to the target.

However, hopefully IA and IAF have understood the need to have accurate AAA/SAM batteries which can take out PGM's, perhaps thats why we are doign ISraeli upgrade for Flycather and South Korean Bio AAA, these can probably take care of incoming ordinance for key assets.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby SidSoma » 16 Sep 2019 11:25

Nikhil T wrote:
ramana wrote:There was no deliberate miss. If you read the Denel description the SOW needs guidance from the launching plane and if that breaks off it goes awry.
Abhinandan scramble made the guidance plane break off.

BTW the H-2/H-4/RAAD is updated Nazi Hs 293 and nothing more.


Not sure. Looked like a deliberate miss to me, the weapon was being pointed away from the facility from the beginning of the video and the video only turned off close to impact, indicating no hasty redirection. No big deal though, we know Pakis have stand off weapons and we will take a few hits if the balloon were to go up.


Assuming what Babaji said is true about the 2nd and 3rd target being AD and Missile sites, there is no way in the world PAF would not want to reply in kind and "Deliberately" miss such juicy targets. Are there any pictures of Sat pics of the impact site ?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Sep 2019 12:09

It seems even the video released by PAF is fake...

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rishi » 16 Sep 2019 13:02

SidSoma wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:
Not sure. Looked like a deliberate miss to me, the weapon was being pointed away from the facility from the beginning of the video and the video only turned off close to impact, indicating no hasty redirection. No big deal though, we know Pakis have stand off weapons and we will take a few hits if the balloon were to go up.


Assuming what Babaji said is true about the 2nd and 3rd target being AD and Missile sites, there is no way in the world PAF would not want to reply in kind and "Deliberately" miss such juicy targets. Are there any pictures of Sat pics of the impact site ?


Baba is some kid on a high. Please don't give such credence.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rishi » 16 Sep 2019 13:09

Aditya_V wrote:It seems even the video released by PAF is fake...


They achieved their domestic perception face saver. So we can split hairs but it doesnt matter.

The thing is IAF did not respond to the AMRAAM shots... (as far as we know) and therein lies the beef between the two forces. The fued is not over. And both sides know it (unless Modi is like Putin (who did not over react to various Ru losses in Syria to Turkey, Israel and US drones) and orders IAF to let it go)

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Sep 2019 13:34

That may be but lets get the facts right

1) All news reports on 26 Feb 19 Morning stated IAF attacked 3 Targets Balakot, Muzaffarabad and Chakoti, later the MEA termed strike on Balakote as a "Non Miltary Strike". Gafoora first tweet at around 4:00 AM IST on 26-Feb-19 was IAF made a shallow intusion in Muzaffarabad sector.

2) Whatever the IAF hit was significant enough (not a few cannon fodder- they denied Surgical strikes on 16 Oct 16 remember and have had high LOC casualties) that the PAF came with 4 H-4 Bombs, 83 REK from JF -17 and a few minutes after these F-16's come close to LOC and release a LGB while other F-16 fired multiple AMRAAM's at the CAP SU 30 MKI a few minutes before this
3) Wing Commander and his wing man now come over the Pir Panjal give chase to the retreating F-16's shoot 1 down and get shot down, anther 2 AMraams fired by the PAF.

I dont see any logic in using PGM and missing targets, spoke persons in Pakistan doing somersaults on type of AIrcraft munitions used, memorial at PAF base for shooting down 2 enemy aircraft and then shutting down your Airspace making your domestic aircraft fly circutious routes during those 5 months, while facing a delicate situation.

PAF was also stating how impenetrable there defences were have been displaying LY 80 for last 3 years.

If you read all the facts the following scenario makes sense.


Pakistan planned Pulwama and expected us to hit them with airstrikes, but they had a plan to shoot down retaliate for such a strike. The entire Pakistan defense apparatus behavior between 14 Feb morning and 25 Feb evening is testimony to that. Whatever the IAF did on 26 Feb 19 morning spoiled the PAF and PA plans and IAF managed to strike deep and accurately within Pakistan and Get back safety.

Dont forget the CH-4 ingress near Naliya Airbase in Gujarat on 27-Feb-19 morning.A PAF with limited PGMs used up precious H-4 and 83 REK from JF 17 on 27 Feb 19 morning, when these miss, a group of F-16's come flying fast and alttitude and target our Su-30 MKI at maximum range, when the Su 30 MKI are dodging these missiles, 3 F-16 's make a shallow ingress and launch a LGB at Naushera Brigade HQ and turn around fleeing with Afterburners, the MIg 21 Bisons which have a higher top speed chase and shoot down 1 F-16 while 1 F-16 from the other group line up the MIg 21's and fire 2 Amraam's at each, the Wing man of Wing Commander Abhinandan then gets back on our side of LOC and 1 Amraam misses him.

Pakistan shuts down its airspace and reroutes its domestic flights, with multiple U turns , like 1 Pilot in custody, 1 in CMH and searching for 1 pilot, then finally tries the 1 pilot story.

Meanwhile, multiple drones are sent in India on various dates which are taken out by IAF and IA.

All this points to Pakistan miltary is stunned and angry at what the IAf hit, worried why thier PGM did not strike home and realization that if not for IAF restricting the use of BVR, from PAF's first BVR firing till the engagements in the air were over it was just a few minutes, the PAF did not turn up when the IAF reached the LOC a few times in Mar 19. However, the Pakistani Army Tanks panicked and started messing up civilian roads near Sialkot.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby abhik » 16 Sep 2019 15:21

Nikhil T wrote:
ramana wrote:There was no deliberate miss. If you read the Denel description the SOW needs guidance from the launching plane and if that breaks off it goes awry.
Abhinandan scramble made the guidance plane break off.

BTW the H-2/H-4/RAAD is updated Nazi Hs 293 and nothing more.


Not sure. Looked like a deliberate miss to me, the weapon was being pointed away from the facility from the beginning of the video and the video only turned off close to impact, indicating no hasty redirection. No big deal though, we know Pakis have stand off weapons and we will take a few hits if the balloon were to go up.

+1, don't understand why we are are in a hurry to dismiss this, either way it was a very dangerous escalation that we did not answer to.

Also I hope we start developing something like the Iron Dome or Miniature Hit-to-Kill interceptor as a last line of defense against PGMs, drones etc which can protect even smaller bases.


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