MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

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ArjunPandit
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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ArjunPandit » 05 May 2020 13:51

Rakesh wrote:NaPakis view their air force being superior vis-a-viv India by the number of Indian planes they shot and the number they lost in comparison. Their entire history lies in IAF losses vs PAF losses.

India views their air force in political and military objectives being met. Losses are part and parcel of the game. Ex Gagan Shakti proved that.

That is the difference.

highlighting the important part..didnt realize its importance in the first read

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby nam » 05 May 2020 14:16

Paks lost the leverage after Saudi attack on Yemen, when Pak in their usual two tongued style, did a "we won't take side" moral standing :rotfl: .

Why would Arab send their kit to Pak, when they know Pak will not take side in a fight with Iran? and end up making an enemy with a future 3rd largest GDP for a fight where they have no dog?

An Pak victory does not give them any advantage. Pak is not going to buying more oil. An Indian win is quite useful for them..

Rather than sending fighters, they might send across Aim120 or PGMs...

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Larry Walker » 05 May 2020 14:56

I think Arabs have sent their planes and other hardware to Pakistan in our earlier wars. It is understood that situation now is very diferent, but there has been precedent. Another blind spot maybe Arabs sponsoring weapons purchase for Porkies during war situations. Pakistan has been sustained by dark hegemonic forces - the Atlantists as well as the Islamists as a threat that will always stay at our 6 o'clock that will bind us to always guard our rear which will drain our resources

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 05 May 2020 21:27

Please focus on the discussion at hand. Generic posts deleted.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Leonard » 06 May 2020 05:55

Enjoy the Greek Mirage2000 chasing the Turkish F16 -- poontang ...

He has locked on atleast 10+ times .. Happened on Sunday .. Imagine the TERROR on the PAF Fizzlya ??

Now most PEOPLE will understand WHY the PAF carried out a "SWIFT RETREAT" operation :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1257626336522317827

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Manish_Sharma » 06 May 2020 08:38

Karan M wrote:
Rakesh wrote:It is a myth - started by NaPakis themselves - that the PAF will have access to these nations' combat aircraft in times of war. There are a number of reasons why this will not happen. Posting articles like this only serves to add fuel to that myth.


I have posted this before, will post it again. Several years back, there was a significant joint planning exercise by some Arab AF with a potential flashpoint being an Indo-Pak war going on in the background. Not one Arab AF considered a transfer of aircraft to PAF. Not one. This was before India even picked up its economic capability, enhanced its ties and became an even bigger consumer of their oil.


I have foggy recollection of reading here on brf that some arabian countries sent fighters to Pakistan in '65 and 71 wars. Maybe Syria did it not sure about saudi Arabia

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby manjgu » 06 May 2020 09:25

1) Greeks AF and Turkish AF have been in this mock fight since many years...getting each other in their sights but never shooting... so while the vid is interesting, proves nothing.
2) i think it was Jordanians who sent their planes in 65 and 71 wars.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 06 May 2020 17:02

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Karan M wrote:
I have posted this before, will post it again. Several years back, there was a significant joint planning exercise by some Arab AF with a potential flashpoint being an Indo-Pak war going on in the background. Not one Arab AF considered a transfer of aircraft to PAF. Not one. This was before India even picked up its economic capability, enhanced its ties and became an even bigger consumer of their oil.


I have foggy recollection of reading here on brf that some arabian countries sent fighters to Pakistan in '65 and 71 wars. Maybe Syria did it not sure about saudi Arabia


Yes, but the exercise I am mentioning happened in the 2000s and there was no desire to send expensive platforms to Pak.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 06 May 2020 17:04

manjgu wrote:1) Greeks AF and Turkish AF have been in this mock fight since many years...getting each other in their sights but never shooting... so while the vid is interesting, proves nothing.
2) i think it was Jordanians who sent their planes in 65 and 71 wars.


A Greek Mirage shot down a Turkish AF F-16 with a Magic.

Wiki:
On 8 October 1996, during an air-to-air confrontation over the Aegean Sea in the Athens FIR, a Greek Mirage 2000 fired an R550 Magic missile and shot down a Turkish F-16D. The Greek government claimed that the Turkish aircraft had violated Greek airspace, however, the Turkish government claimed that it had been on a training mission north of the Greek island of Samos, close to the Turkish mainland. The Turkish pilot died, while the co-pilot ejected and was rescued by Greek forces.[92][93] Although the Turkish government has admitted the loss, the Greek government officially denies that the shootdown occurred.[94] The loss was confirmed in 2012, after the downing of a RF-4E on the Syrian Coast. In response to a parliamentary question, Turkish Defence Minister İsmet Yılmaz stated that Turkish F-16D Block40 (s/n 91-0023) of 192 Filo was shot down by a Greek Mirage 2000 with a R.550 Magic II missile on 8 October 1996 after violating Greek airspace near Chios island.[95]

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 06 May 2020 18:04

In the Indo Pak context, close in fight, IAF Mirages are equipped with Thales Topsight helmets for high off boresight missiles and the Mica.
PAF has JHMCS but no AIM-9X, but only the AIM-9M.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby manjgu » 06 May 2020 21:37

karan... anything since 1996?? almost 25 yrs ago... this is a little game both sides play nowdays.... shooting each others with cameras !!!

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby nachiket » 06 May 2020 23:35

manjgu wrote:1) Greeks AF and Turkish AF have been in this mock fight since many years...getting each other in their sights but never shooting... so while the vid is interesting, proves nothing.
2) i think it was Jordanians who sent their planes in 65 and 71 wars.

If I remember correctly the Jordanians sent the F-104's on Uncle Sam's request essentially. The Americans gave them more F-104's to make up for the ones they gave to pakis. So it was basically Americans selling F-104's to pakis indirectly to get around the arms embargo.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby RKumar » 07 May 2020 00:12

Clean up :mrgreen:
Last edited by RKumar on 07 May 2020 14:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 07 May 2020 00:58

manjgu wrote:karan... anything since 1996?? almost 25 yrs ago... this is a little game both sides play nowdays.... shooting each others with cameras !!!


Its not really a "game" for them. Both sides take it very very seriously. The above incident was but one example of things turning hot or bad. Nor is it "nowadays".
https://www.businessinsider.in/defense/ ... 766614.cms
https://www.ekathimerini.com/227620/art ... since-1990

This from a mere month back.
https://www.itamilradar.com/2020/04/19/ ... -fighters/

The Greek AF values their Mirages very highly as they are the only fighters unique to the HAF and not available with the Turks.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 14 May 2020 15:18

[url][/url]Intresting Dr Shiv's take on 27 Feb 19 dogfight, according to his speculation the 1 F-16 has fired an Amraam when Wing Commander fires the R-73 missile at it from a lower altitude while the F-16 wingman fires an Amraam at the Mig 21 Bison. I do not agree with this but anyway thought we can see the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=73&v=OOkTBpl5x0w&feature=emb_logo

https://youtu.be/OOkTBpl5x0w


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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 20 May 2020 18:24

Rishirishi wrote:Indian PSU's together with babus from the ministry may have been the greatest setback for Armed forces. LCA dose not have the required range due to design weakness. IHJ was not able to fly, Arjun had ITS weakness, kaveri, INSAS etc etc. Even Abhi was shot down because the communication was jammed. Why did he not have jamproof com.? Because some promise from PSU, to make IT.

I am not sure of Wing Commander shot down due to communication Jam, that was the Paki story- they couldn't say he was on their side of LOC and brought down F-16 could they. They brought the communication Jam story out so they could say he was on their side of LOC by mistake.

Nowhere does Squandron leader Minty Agarwal, ACM Dhanoa, AM Harikumar Chandrasekharan mention this while they do mention of about multiple Amraam firings, Amraam being better etc.

The Pakistanis brought out the story otherwise people were asking why were the MIg 21 Bison on their side of LOC - they couldn't admit it was surprise attack on their F-16 so put of the communication Jam story.

If you see the various interviews and radar picture - there 6 F-16's and 2 JF -17 , 2 JF 17 having released MK 83 bombs and 1 f16 dropped a LGB, the other F-16's were firing Amraam shots at the SU-30 so that they could continue more attacks till they hit our Army targets.

Wing Commander Abhinandan and Squadron leader Vyas knew the risks but the took it and made Swift Retort to Swift retreat and see Pakistan Army panicked and started getting on the roads of Sialkot- Mirpur road since the PAF had retreated. They did since the PAF had promised they would hit the Indian Army targets causing casualties and possible retaliation from the IAF, they didnt know the PAF had 11 misses that day including 4 H-4 missiles and 1 LGB.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby chetonzz » 23 May 2020 19:39

James wrote:Hmm, it’s the mango season as well. History repeating itself? Will be interesting to see the passenger manifest.


Suspicious... 2 PAF pilots together? Cut paste from 27th feb 19?

Image
Image

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby MeshaVishwas » 30 May 2020 17:27

Looks like Pakis are trying to plug the gaping holes in AD that the Vajra exploited.
They are lapping up all used Saab-2000 airframes and getting the radar fitted.
Pakis claiming that the new numbers are anywhere between 6-9 Erieye birds.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Gagan » 31 May 2020 11:48

ks_sachin wrote:
Gagan wrote:My take on the lack of infowar by the Indian Armed Forces is that the 3 chiefs, the CDS, the vice chiefs and the senior officers live in the past century.
One can constantly see them tweaking their moustaches and pooh-poohing fancy technology, cyber-war, space-war, info-war.

This is a culture that they have created to protect the institution in a socialist era, with bad politics and armed forces hating communists in the media. That culture required the armed forces to function under the radar, not rake ANY controversy, silence and severely punish any whistle-blowers.

The need of the hour is a slick media management, high tech computer graphics, control the narrative in desi and international DDM
Wonder when this will change, it is high time this happened.

Rather a simplistic view Gagan

In that case please do enlighten us all Sir

My view is that under previous GoIs, the armed forces were supposed to stay away from the media, hidden away, not respond to positive or negative criticism at all. GoI treated them as a cash cow for corruption so hid them away.

Now the 21st century battlefield has a Cyber and a Media component to it as well. Why should the armed forces not be represented here adequately?

No where do I suggest that the Armed Forces not be apolitical. But there is a LOT of institutional inertia that was suited for the last century and needs a 21st century tweaking.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby deejay » 31 May 2020 18:53

What you say makes sense. Armed Forces as a whole need to take back initiative. We have been reactive and we need to move into the domain of setting the agenda.

Our adoption of tech and response in this 24 by 7 news cycle needs to be in tune with modern fog of war.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby manjgu » 31 May 2020 21:00

dictatorship ...unelected govt have a greater need for media warfare... they have need to control the populace with a false narrative. Pakistan still peddles many lies..it won in 47-48, 1965, 71, kargil, siachen etc etc. while media is imp but we are overstating its usefulness IMHO..

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Leonard » 01 Jul 2020 01:49

Another new video crops up .. No matter how much the Fizzle-Ya tries to cover up ..

https://twitter.com/i/status/1277311207280726023

Upar aur ek Doosra heh ..

Bhag jayega ...

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 09 Jul 2020 13:46

Interesting discussion of the 27-Feb-19 dogfight, did not see it here



There is a mention of 3 LGB's dropped not 1 as earlier thought.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ks_sachin » 09 Jul 2020 14:56

Gagan wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:Rather a simplistic view Gagan

In that case please do enlighten us all Sir

My view is that under previous GoIs, the armed forces were supposed to stay away from the media, hidden away, not respond to positive or negative criticism at all. GoI treated them as a cash cow for corruption so hid them away.

Now the 21st century battlefield has a Cyber and a Media component to it as well. Why should the armed forces not be represented here adequately?

No where do I suggest that the Armed Forces not be apolitical. But there is a LOT of institutional inertia that was suited for the last century and needs a 21st century tweaking.


I will definitely do so. Or at least write of my experiences.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 09 Jul 2020 19:07

Aditya_V wrote:Interesting discussion of the 27-Feb-19 dogfight, did not see it here

There is a mention of 3 LGB's dropped not 1 as earlier thought.


I have posted it 3-4 times myself. :D

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 17 Jul 2020 18:31

Hmm still thinking about this, eventhough Pakis lost an F16 , the propaganda victory they got with Pilot and Mig 21 Bsion was huge, in Hindsight one feels if the 2 Mig 21 Bison a had fired R77 dispersing the F16s would have been better, this would have bought a few minutes as they Su 30 fired at by the F16's would have been free , plus with 4 more 21Bisons , more Su 30 and Mig 29 coming into the fray and PAF retreating PAF would have nothing to show for Swift retreat. Wing Commander Abhinandan and Sqn leader Vyas went for the risky kill got a F16, taught the PAF a lesson but the Pakis got a propaganda victory. I hope the stupid ROE have been removed and we can waste a few R27/ R77 is ok but risking our planes Pilots crossing LOC in a no war situation into a formation of F16 does not seem to be worth it. It was brave but would R77 missiles dispersing the group been good enough?

I hope as time passes IAF puts out more details on 27 Feb 19 , atleast of PAF action from where did the Mirage 3/5 fire the H4 bombs, JF 17 released thier MK83REK bombs, from the F16s fired Amraams at Avenger 1 and 2, whether 1 or 3 LGBs were released by the PAF F16s, how the did Mig 21 bisons crossed the LoC targetted a F16 and which F16 which forced an Amraam which shot one down and was another Amraam fired at San leader Vyas's retreating F16. How many Amraams fired in total by the Pakis. PAF has put out a lot of fakery but no official explanation for the whole events with a digital map from the IAF. See Air Marshal Harikumar and former ACM Dhona have given interviews on this but still quite a few details from the Indian side has not been presented.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Jul 2020 15:55

While we our focused on Wing Commander Abhinandan, we have all forgotten about Squadron Leader Vyas, if you see the IAF radar images and the Paki Mirpur video, he was clearly their with Abhinandan and turned around ~ 30 seconds after Wing Commander Abhinandan was shot down.

I wonder if IAF can show what the Radar recordings and gun camera images , they should be interesting.

I suspect between various GOI orgs, Raw, NTRO, IAF they can tear PAF lies but have been keeping a wrap on it.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby LakshmanPST » 22 Jul 2020 03:38

@Aditya_V
Our main objective was to send a message to Pak that we will escalate things if another major terrorist attack happens... That msg was to the establishment of Pak Army/ISI/Terrorist groups and they got the message... We achieved that primary objective and that's that...
Ofcourse, the Pakis are still trying to send in terrorists (that is a different story)...
-
We couldn't get propaganda victory as in, 'public proofs' of our Balakot Strike and F16 kill... Only 'insiders' actually saw the proofs for themselves, which can not be revealed to public due to security reasons... (Few publicly available proofs like doosra-banda, tadpole videos and radar pictures won't be acceptable to public who wan't 4K quality proofs...)
Whereas Pakistan got public proof of MIG21 crash visible to 'outsiders', more importantly to their public... And since we used Spice bombs, no major damage was observed...

Also, Abhinandan ended up barely few kilometers on Paki side of LAC... Even at subsonic speed, he would've been back on Indian side had the missile hit him half a minute late...

Also, if India was operating F16s and Pak was operating Russian jets, USA would have provided intelligence reports confirming the Paki jet crash (like how they revealed 43 Chinese died at Galwan)...
-
Even if IAF releases all the radar and gun camera recordings (thereby compromising secrecy), still no 3rd party/Outsiders/Public will believe them at this stage...

We can forever analyze a lot of things about what should or shouldn't have happened... But at the end of the day, luck was on Paki side and there's nothing we can do about it...
-
As far as Balakot strike goes, IAF decided to plan that kind of strike missions in future in such a way that the damage is actually 'visible'...
As far as Feb 27 Air battle goes, if you ask me, it is not in our hands how situation evolves in a fight... Luck favoured Pakis that day... It may be in our favour next time and that time will definitely come...

Cheers...

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Jul 2020 12:41

Next time we should definitely have longer range and more numerous BVRs, we should be prepared to waste some by get thier fighters and AEW aircraft before they get in position, by using terrorists they have already escalated.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rakesh » 23 Jul 2020 16:27

Click on the link below....

https://twitter.com/KalitaAbhinav/statu ... 56065?s=20 ----> Balakot Airstrike Thread.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ramana » 27 Jul 2020 04:12

Note usage of 9 HSLD bombs by 3 M2Ks.

IAF was confident of HSLD. None of the crap 1000 MC.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ArjunPandit » 27 Jul 2020 05:31

Rakesh wrote:Click on the link below....

https://twitter.com/KalitaAbhinav/statu ... 56065?s=20 ----> Balakot Airstrike Thread.

rakesh ji twitter is fairly unreliable with ids going away ..best to copy the twitter

BALAKOT AIRSTRIKE THREAD

The reason behind choosing balakot was clear it was the control room of the Jaish including trainning for suicide bombing, IED and artillery and waging terror in India, US and Afghanistan .


A classified document of the US 16 years back clearly mentioned a terrorist named Hafeez K Rahman a Pakistani National locked in Guatanamo Bay who took trainning in the same Balakot and took terrorism, this document had the sign of US Army Major General Geoffrey D. Miller.

The high-accuracy locational coordinates of the targetted facility as well as high-accuracy navigational waypoints inside hostile airspace in areas where no sympathetic local human resources were bound to be available, was the principal challenge for India.

Here India[RAW] took the help of Afghanistan particularly the human resource assets of Afghanistan’s Riyasat-e Amniyat-e Milli,or the National Directorate of Security (NDS)which was present in Pakistan’s Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KPK),within which the targetted JeM facility was located

Subsequently high-accuracy locational coordinates were obtained and the camp was infiltrated by RAW to analyse the structures of the camp, thickness of the walls and sealing and regular schedule of the Terr0rists.

It was found that it had a gym, firing range, swimming pool etc. along with a ground to play outdoor games. It had also a highly restricted and secure ammunition warehouse all equipped with very thick walls fearing 2016 like surgical strikes.

Ammunition reserves included everything needed to make IED, 200 Assault rifles, hand grenades, rocket launchers and uncounted rounds of 7.62 and 5.56 mm bullets among others. NTRO also analysed the number of cell phones activated in the area.

Then entire coordinate were fed in Safran Electronics & Defense-supplied Mission Analysis and Restitution System (MARS) of the IAF. Which created flight and attack plans; analyzes missions, with video playback;

provides tactical situational awareness (flight corridors, positions of threats, etc.) and geographical 2-D and 3-D environment (digital maps, terrain profiles, meteorological conditions, etc.);

and finalises weapons-to-target matching parameters and operating protocols for electronic systems (electronic warfare, target acquisition/designation pods, radio, IFF, etc).

February 18 : All these were completed within 4 days of getting go-ahead from Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Another 5 days were consumed by various asset mobilisation efforts throughout the IAF’s Western and Central Air Commands

February 22: Rehearsals started by IAF on the skies of Haryana, Punjab and J&K. PAF also reacted to this and scrambled jets from
Rafiqui , Kamra and Sargodha to counter Bhisiana, Adampur, Halwara, Srinagar and Avantipora sorties by IAF.

February 26 Judgment Day: Night 2 Am PM NARENDRA MODI, NSA AJIT DOVAL and Chiefs of Millitary command among with others were awake with their screens on somewhere in New Delhi.

Directorate of Air Staff Inspection (DASI) was conducted in Gwalior Airbase before 2 AM to overthrow any suspicion by anyone.

Even Central Air Command, the AOC-in-C of the Command was not aware of the ops until just a few hours before when he was informed that his 12 boys from Gwalior are needed in Pak airspace for creating havoc.

Morning 2AM: 6 Mirage 2000HS took off from Gwalior and reached Agra
3 mirages were armed with total 9 1000lb HSLD bombs and other 3 mirages were armed with 6 907kg Spice 2000 PGM.
They were refuelled by IL-78MKIs

Morning 3AM: another 6 Mirage-2000Hs that had already re-deployed from Gwalior to Adampur a day earlier, headed for eastern Himachal Pradesh where they, along with the Mirage-2000s from Agra, were all refuelled.

They then turned towards J&K

3:30AM TO 4:00AM : 2 sorties of six-aircraft including heavily armed Sukhoi-30 MKI was done in staggered manner from Bhisiana towards Okara-Bahawalpur, and from Halwara towards Lahore.

This heavily distracted and nervoused the two CAPs of the PAF that were airborne that night from Rafiqui and Sargodha airbases.

3:30 AM: 6 mirages broke formation into two packages 3 armed with HSLD headed towards Balakot and 3 armed with Spice 2000 headed for a location northwest of Muzaffarabad all undetected due to Terrain Masking Flight Profile.

3:35 AM: Balakot base camp: From Southwest direction the 3 mirages launched 5 spice 2000 on the Target hitting it with pin point accuracy

penetrating the structures and creating low pressure and very high temperature zone inside the buildings along with high fragmentation which roasted the terr0rists like Chicken tandoori out of recognition.

3:45AM- 3:53AM: Balakot Base camp: From North Eastern direction HSLD equipped 3 Mirages arrived and launched one after the another 9 HSLD bombs on the camps wiping out everything that remained on the camp with blast fragmentation .
All the 6 mirages then turned back towards India

3:40 AM: Another wave of 6 mirages entered POK and conducted CAP in medium altitude over Keran Valley.These 6 were detected by the PAF’s Kamra-based airspace surveillance radar, which in turn ordered a scramble of two F-16s from Chaklala air base in Rawalpindi.

since they were still 120 km away from the mirages to engage them and they reached Balakot only four minutes later after the Mirages had already entered Indian Airspace.

The operation lasted for 21 minutes inside Pakistan.

Imagery of the the targetted area from DGISPR indicates that the shallow craters and blown-up trees were not due to the explosion of HSLD bombs (since the trees would have been burnt-up had the bombs exploded nearby)

but were from IED explosions, most probably triggered by the trainee JeM cadres or their instructors for training purposes in the recent past.

THE END.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 27 Jul 2020 10:00

Good info about the precise number of bombs used at Balakot(9). So were the attacks on Chakoti and Muzzafarabad diversionary, to cover for the real strike?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rishi » 27 Jul 2020 10:26

South west?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 27 Jul 2020 10:55

Were they on the Return when the launched the SPice Bombs?

abhik
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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby abhik » 27 Jul 2020 18:39

Half the stuff on twitter is made up, when you have armed forces folks who were involved in actual operation giving detailed info to the media (for example the Nitin G video posted earlier on this page) - why believe fantastical claims from anonymous twitter handles?

Karan M
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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 27 Jul 2020 18:52

abhik wrote:Half the stuff on twitter is made up, when you have armed forces folks who were involved in actual operation giving detailed info to the media (for example the Nitin G video posted earlier on this page) - why believe fantastical claims from anonymous twitter handles?


This writeup above by that handle was based on Prasun Sengupta's speculation. Completely unreliable IMHO.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby MeshaVishwas » 01 Aug 2020 02:40

Although we already knew this but essentially the Fizzleya coc*ed up tactics employed by Khan some three decades ago.
Tacticians at the Fighter Weapons School at Nellis AFB in Nevada were working hard on how to beat BVR threats as capable as our own, specifically ways the F-15 and its missiles could defeat the Su-27 and its missiles. They developed what at the time was a classified technique called the f-pole manoeuvre. Basically, we’d enter the fight high, fast, and as head-on to the threat as possible (giving our AIM-7s the longest possible ranges), launch at max optimum range, and immediately crank into hard turns away, right to radar gimbal limits. Our Sparrows were in the air, flying straight at their targets along the shortest possible distance. Their missiles, had they launched at the same range, had to fly farther to get to us. The f-pole manoeuvre, properly executed, might even give their IRST systems a harder problem finding and tracking us, but I can’t attest to that. We had a lot of confidence in this technique and practiced it religiously, and believed it would make the crucial difference in combat.

Clicky

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 01 Aug 2020 09:00

They worked on 27-Feb-19 because of no war no peace situation, ROE of not allowing IAF to fire first. In a real war wasting 6/7 Amraams will lead to 60
Mig 21 Bisons for 60 F-16's for the entire range of PAF missiles fired. 6 misses on a single day for missile known as "SLAMMER" is gross incompetence.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby MeshaVishwas » 01 Aug 2020 14:13

Aditya_V wrote:They worked on 27-Feb-19 because of no war no peace situation, ROE of not allowing IAF to fire first. In a real war wasting 6/7 Amraams will lead to 60
Mig 21 Bisons for 60 F-16's for the entire range of PAF missiles fired. 6 misses on a single day for missile known as "SLAMMER" is gross incompetence.

400%!
The kicker in the plums is that all of these Ghazis were CCS instructors.
:lol:


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