MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya_V »

Drip by drip some more details

https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 9836465152
8 JF17s playing hide & seek at 'safe range + 25 km (extra safe)' from Mica armed M2000s were valiant indeed Winking face. No Pakistani ever ask them Thunder boys the moot question - bhaijan, why no SD10 launch from your side even with a gross numerical superiority during #SwiftRetort? Thinking face
The F16's were firing away the much more expensive and rarer Amraams, so conserving SD10A can't be the answer.
LakshmanPST
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 05 Apr 2019 18:23

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by LakshmanPST »

https://youtu.be/zxRgfBXn6Mg

A very detailed video of the first day of Operation Desert Storm...
The coalition forces seem to have shotdown lot of Iraqi MIGs with BVRs... No wonder Pakis are obsessed with this war...
-
Posting it here since the reference came up multiple times... Mods may move it to appropriate thread if deemed irrelevant here...
Shameek
BRFite
Posts: 911
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 20:44
Location: Ionosphere

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Shameek »

^^ The BVR part is true, but the coalition had overwhelming superiority both in terms of numbers and technology. They had 10's of AWACS and a full overview of the battle space. Even then they lost aircraft on the first day. Such is the fog of war.
brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10694
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by brar_w »

Shameek wrote:^^ The BVR part is true, but the coalition had overwhelming superiority both in terms of numbers and technology. They had 10's of AWACS and a full overview of the battle space. Even then they lost aircraft on the first day. Such is the fog of war.
Superiority yes. The force from a technology and structure perspective was geared to fight the USSR and was also at peak readiness. But still, just one air-air loss over 100,000 sorties. Nearly all other combat losses were due to surface-to-air fires. The fog of war also has something to do with technology being used for the first time and the challenges that this presents with human factor performance (you never fully know of your training, leadership/doctrine or equipment deficiencies until you go into combat) . No one had ever used AWACS, JSTARS, resilient deployable C2, or PGM's and GPS at that scale before so that these things would work as intended was far from guaranteed. The first GW was essentially a "trial by fire" for assault breaker.
Last edited by brar_w on 15 Aug 2020 22:35, edited 1 time in total.
manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2615
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by manjgu »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4LZ3Vl9FPI&t=568s ( not sure if posted before) PAF pilot discusses Rafale..usual bluster !
MeshaVishwas
BRFite
Posts: 869
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 17:20

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by MeshaVishwas »

manjgu wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4LZ3Vl9FPI&t=568s ( not sure if posted before) PAF pilot discusses Rafale..usual bluster !

Yup saw this classic.
Mango Abdul-e-Mirage Ghazi McBaldy was just brilliant. The range quoted for the ChinaStronkk PL15 is :lol:

You also need to check out the one, the wonlee, 2Fail in a Q&A with a Brit.(Aircrew Interview channel YouTube)
Will definitely give you a giggle.
chetonzz
BRFite
Posts: 138
Joined: 18 Mar 2019 11:11

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by chetonzz »

MeshaVishwas wrote:
manjgu wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4LZ3Vl9FPI&t=568s ( not sure if posted before) PAF pilot discusses Rafale..usual bluster !

Yup saw this classic.
Mango Abdul-e-Mirage Ghazi McBaldy was just brilliant. The range quoted for the ChinaStronkk PL15 is :lol:

You also need to check out the one, the wonlee, 2Fail in a Q&A with a Brit.(Aircrew Interview channel YouTube)
Will definitely give you a giggle.
Kindly provide link
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18259
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 25824?s=20 ----> This 'complete' AIM-120C5 AMRAAM debris - recovered near an Indian village on 27 February 2019, exposes Hassan Siddiqui's FALSE CLAIM. I wonder if the morons at F-16.net will still believe that a PAF AMRAAM actually hit an Indian Sukhoi after seeing this image.

Image
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18259
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/joe_sameer/status/1 ... 65152?s=20 ---> Eight JF-17s playing hide & seek at 'safe range + 25 km (extra safe)' from Mica armed Mirage 2000s were valiant indeed. No Pakistani ever ask them Thunder boys the moot question => bhaijan, why no SD-10 launch from your side even with a gross numerical superiority during Swift Retort?
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18259
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Rakesh »

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/129 ... 34594?s=20 ---> As the IAF chief takes a spin in a MiG-21 Bison, posting the very interesting chat we did last February with Angad Singh on this fighter type, and why it isn't easily dismissed.

nvishal
BRFite
Posts: 992
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 18:03

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by nvishal »



"he was a Sikh".

I think he is talking about the Pakistani pilot; not abhi. Can anyone make a guess.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Philip »

According to another report,quoting a retd. sr.IAF officer, the PAF planned an attack on a military base in J & K with a large force of aircraft. 4 F-16s first launched 3 AMRAAMs at 2 SU-30s, of which all missed. A 4th. missile was fired. The Sukhois then counterattacked , but the F-16s after seeing all their missiles fail turned tail and fled in fear and were out of range. Had our MKIs pursued them into Paki airspace they dould'vd surely suffered casualties. The message of revenge had already been administeted at Balakot! The next time we strike terror targets using the IAF, it would be best for the Pakis to keep their birds firmly on terra firma!
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya_V »

Philip wrote:According to another report,quoting a retd. sr.IAF officer, the PAF planned an attack on a military base in J & K with a large force of aircraft. 4 F-16s first launched 3 AMRAAMs at 2 SU-30s, of which all missed. A 4th. missile was fired. The Sukhois then counterattacked , but the F-16s after seeing all their missiles fail turned tail and fled in fear and were out of range. Had our MKIs pursued them into Paki airspace they dould'vd surely suffered casualties. The message of revenge had already been administeted at Balakot! The next time we strike terror targets using the IAF, it would be best for the Pakis to keep their birds firmly on terra firma!
I still strongly believe that the F-16 that was shot down and pilot who died saved the day for the Pakis, whom the PAF and the ungrateful nation have disowned. That F-16 was a strike aircraft was in the wrong position since it launched the LGB and altitude wise much lower at 9000 ft but engaged the Mig-21 Bisons since 2 other F-16 which were fleeing were very vulnerable and going to get shot.

Seeing the video and vapour trail going away from the F-16, it is most probably that this F-16 that launched the Amraam that got Abhinandan before it was hit by the r-73. This theory is corroborated by the IAF radar presentation, that why you the Mig21 Bisons cross the LOC in a North East to South West direction but suddenly truth right to engage the F-16 which climbing altitude.

Wing Commander Abhinandan did not cross the LOC to get shot down, he and Squandron Leader Vyas( I am not sure of both of them have been promoted in the last 2 years)- they went there cause 2 of F-16 which had launched Amraam's against Avenger Su-30 were in an extremely vulnerable position.

It was the F-16 which went down that day by losing a Pilot life at CMH Rawalpindi that saved they day for Pakis, otherwise it would have been all Bombs missed and 2-F-16;s down for the PAF. Wing Commander being captured alive was the bargaining chip the Pakis had and they played it. But it was only because 1 F-16 twin seater instead of doing what the rest of them did decided to take a risky engagement. Being at lower altitude it original mission was to launch LGB's at BHQ Naushera, it was probably not the primary target initially when the Bisons crossed the Pir Panjal.

Clearly there are a lot of details on 27-Feb-19 which are out of public domain. Wish we get a proper account from the IAF with launch positions on-what exactly happened on 26-Feb-19 and 27-Feb-19 (UAV shootdowns near Naliya airbase also) including the 2 Targets at Muzaffarabad and Chakoti- whose information went missing when the MEA decided to call an Airforce strike as "Non Miltary strike"

manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2615
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by manjgu »

sameer joshi on twitter says "It is to the credit of the ‘Tigers’ that the CCS/ 14 Sqn ac cud never threaten them, with the young IAF M2K pilots never falling for the shooter/drags deployed by the Thunders. " what is referred to as shooter/drags?
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Karan M »

manjgu wrote:sameer joshi on twitter says "It is to the credit of the ‘Tigers’ that the CCS/ 14 Sqn ac cud never threaten them, with the young IAF M2K pilots never falling for the shooter/drags deployed by the Thunders. " what is referred to as shooter/drags?
In BVR, some aircraft act as a dragnet. They engage in the back and forth battle with the targets pulling them into the targeting range of others who are shooters. You can pull this stunt if you have numbers on your side. The Mirages didn't fall for the trap - not getting overenthusiastic/ exposing themselves to the other side.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by ramana »

The strike on Balakot was and is a non-military strike as it housed the Pak terrorists responsible for Pulwama. Balakot was nit a military site.

However Paki retaliation was against Indian military targets and should be called a "military strike".

But for Abhinandan capture and subsequent release, it would have led to hostilities.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by ramana »

We're all 5 M2Ks upgraded planes?
Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18259
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Rakesh »

The M2Ks that took part at Balakot were a mixture of Mirage 2000I (upgraded) and Mirage 2000H (non-upgraded) variants.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by ramana »

I am willing to bet a dollar to donut hole the fifth plane was M2KH.
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya_V »

Can anyone see the irony here, the IAf adhereing to peacetime requirements did not fire BVR missiles and then enter Paki airspace, but the PAF fired Amraams for aircraft well within our territory, when terrorists exist adhereing to such ROE is meaningless. If PAF/PA wants to give air cover to terrorists, thier SAAB AEW, AIrcraft, radar sites, SAM's are fair game.

but still I am not sure what was hit in Muzaffarabad and Chakoti Sectors which the MEA found very inconvenient to mention in thier statement and excluded from the statements, I suspect these were Miltary SAM /Radar sites which had to be taken out before the IAF could proceed to Balakot.
Davidrock
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 89
Joined: 10 Mar 2019 12:07

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Davidrock »

Aditya_V wrote:Can anyone see the irony here, the IAf adhereing to peacetime requirements did not fire BVR missiles and then enter Paki airspace, but the PAF fired Amraams for aircraft well within our territory, when terrorists exist adhereing to such ROE is meaningless. If PAF/PA wants to give air cover to terrorists, thier SAAB AEW, AIrcraft, radar sites, SAM's are fair game.

but still I am not sure what was hit in Muzaffarabad and Chakoti Sectors which the MEA found very inconvenient to mention in thier statement and excluded from the statements, I suspect these were Miltary SAM /Radar sites which had to be taken out before the IAF could proceed to Balakot.
My opinion is the same, it was a good opportunity.

India has always fired the last shot, because Pakistan was the initiator of conflict.
This time around India was the initiator (atleast militarily, since Pulwama was proxy), so pakistan was allowed with a face saver.

In the process, Abhinanadan was captured, which changed the course of action. Also IAF took down F-16.
If the above two had not happened, IAF would have taken immediate revenge is my guess.

In Feb27 duel, we did well but because of PR of our fighter shot, the perception was against us. But remember, we have set a new template, if there is a proxy terror attack, it will end up in military conflict.

It may appear they had control over the escalation ladder, but we have created a limited space to take revenge where we can deploy our superior technology assets, and they have to now constantly keep up to date with their air defense technology
LakshmanPST
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 05 Apr 2019 18:23

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by LakshmanPST »

The only defeat India faced during the Feb2019 events is in PR and that blue-on-blue Mi17 crash...
There are lessons learnt and certain gaps to be filled, but overall we did well...
Luck was on Paki side that day... It won't be the same everytime...
It was Govt.'s decision not to escalate things, but basic msg has been sent that we will escalate things in case there is another major terror attack...
I infact found this response more effective than Operation Parakram done as a response to Parliament Attack...
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya_V »

Operation Parakram we lost the media war, but Pakis suffered huge casualties, before that Pakis were holding the advantage on the LOC since 1989. Godhra train burning 1 day after UP elections came to an end came to thier rescue.
Davidrock
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 89
Joined: 10 Mar 2019 12:07

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Davidrock »

Aditya_V wrote:Operation Parakram we lost the media war, but Pakis suffered huge casualties, before that Pakis were holding the advantage on the LOC since 1989. Godhra train burning 1 day after UP elections came to an end came to thier rescue.
Operation Parakram was poorly planned, we lost more troops in the mobilization that what we lost in Kargil war.
AkshaySG
BRFite
Posts: 412
Joined: 30 Jul 2020 08:51

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by AkshaySG »

Aditya_V wrote:Operation Parakram we lost the media war, but Pakis suffered huge casualties, before that Pakis were holding the advantage on the LOC since 1989. Godhra train burning 1 day after UP elections came to an end came to thier rescue.
Parakram may have resulted in big casualties for Pak but overall it wasn't carried out that well , It exposed the holes in our existing doctrine and Strike Corps locations , led to many more deaths in the mobilisation process (especially in mine laying ) than is acceptable and gave enough time for International pressure to build up that we lost some of the narrative war .

An Airpower based surgical strike is a much better response to such attacks , Quicker,Decisive , and gives the option strike deeper into Pak than border skirmishes

One of if not the biggest win of Op Parakram's was the lessons learned and changes made to IA doctrine after evaluating the shortcomings of the Op
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya_V »

I agree, we need artillery and airstrike options so Pakistan understands that heating up LOC or Kashmir is no longer an option.

We lost a lot of troops on the LOC , yes there were some casualties in mine laying etc but the bulk was in fighting and I remember on CNN Pakistanis showing a civilian convoy of Hino trucks and Toyota Jeeps in miltary convoy was taken out by Indian ATGM's. When does civilian traffic in POk moves in military Jeeps and trucks, they probably lost a convoy of men and ammo in that 1 strike.

The biggest mistake of operation Parakram is we gave Pakis a warning.

Since this is an airforce thread, what Feb-19 showed us is the the entire uniformed Jihadi and non uniformed Jihadi complex is most scared of the IAF, so we must make sure that PAF is no show- we need air dominance. I hope the Indian leadership- bureaucracy, etc has understood that- no Politician- lobby should be allowed to disrupt the momentum in this.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by ks_sachin »

Aditya_V wrote:I agree, , yes there were some casualties in mine laying etc .
Some casualties... that was the bulk. Please don’t minimise a FU....
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya_V »

India suffered 1,874 casualties without fighting a war
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 016284.cms
The number of Army personnel killed or wounded in Jammu and Kashmir and the western sector during the mobilisation,Operation Parakram, from December 19, 2001 to October 16, 2002, was 1,874," said Defence Minister George Fernandes.

In the initial phase of Operation Parakram itself, after the December 2001 Parliament attack, over 100 soldiers were killed and 250 injured during mine-laying operations.

Vehicle accidents, artillery duels with Pakistan and other incidents led to many more casualties.
I do not think 350/1874(killed 100 out of 798 soldiers, accidents and incidents yes 50, but around 600 Indian Soldiers died on the LOC) becomes the bulk, the media which is dominated by the pro Paki group refused to tell the truth regarding the bleeding of Pakistani Army suffered during Operation Parakram and how the only logical reason for the Godhra train burning was to take pressure of the Pakistani Army.

It is like today we do not know if Pakistanis, Bangladeshis or even Congress, AAP supporting personal attacked Sikhs in Sydney Australia but BJP gets blamed. A Media narrative is not always correct.
LakshmanPST
BRFite
Posts: 673
Joined: 05 Apr 2019 18:23

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by LakshmanPST »

Apologies for diverting the thread towards Operation Parakram (OP)...
But what I meant in my original point is, using Air Force or carrying out Surgical strikes is more effective way of sending the message than mobilizing the entire Armed forces for war and not starting the actual war...

Taking out high value targets with precision strikes in small missions is any day more effective... The operations in these cases have a specific goal and end-game...

Operation Parakram's original objectives were to cross the LOC and wipe out terrorist camps in PoK and not cross international border into Pakistan... But within days after India started mobilizing, Pak moved most of the camps from PoK to Pakistan...
Thus the original objective failed before we even mobilized fully... After this, I don't know what other objectives Govt. had in mind... They simply wanted to send a message? or bring down the Paki govt.? or comprehensively defeat the Paki army? or wipe out the terrorist camps inside Pakistan...? What exactly were the objectives of OP...?

While we learnt valuable lessons from OP, to me it looked more like a knee-jerk reaction to give some response rather than a well-planned and calculated mission with specific objectives...

The surprise factor always lies in striking targets without announcing... Air Force and missiles play a crucial role in taking out long distance targets...
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya_V »

Well, I think we now know that Pakis are up to thier tricks, better to have plans ready and attack before the PAF/ PA can start to respond.
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9102
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by nachiket »

Aditya_V wrote:Can anyone see the irony here, the IAf adhereing to peacetime requirements did not fire BVR missiles and then enter Paki airspace, but the PAF fired Amraams for aircraft well within our territory, when terrorists exist adhereing to such ROE is meaningless. If PAF/PA wants to give air cover to terrorists, thier SAAB AEW, AIrcraft, radar sites, SAM's are fair game.
None of their interceptors came close enough to threaten the attacking aircraft during the Balakot strike thanks to the deception and careful planning. The article mentions the scrambled paki fighters were 150km away from the Mirages when they were releasing their weapons. So who were we going to fire missiles against?
Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3565
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya G »

ramana wrote:We're all 5 M2Ks upgraded planes?
All Mirages on Balakot air strike were standard Mirage-2000H and TH variants.

Upgraded Mirages were in action the next morning on 27th Feb against PAF JF-17s
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9102
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by nachiket »

If I remember the numbers mentioned back then, even in Feb 2019 we had barely 8-9 upgraded Mirage-2000I's flying. A result of the long delay in the upgrade. The Spice and Crystal Maze munitions had already been integrated prior to the upgrade so the entire fleet was available for the strike mission at least.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Karan M »

Aditya G wrote:
ramana wrote:We're all 5 M2Ks upgraded planes?
All Mirages on Balakot air strike were standard Mirage-2000H and TH variants.

Upgraded Mirages were in action the next morning on 27th Feb against PAF JF-17s
The Mirages on the Balakot strike were a mix of Upg and Mirage 2000-H/TH, with former on escort duty.
Rishirishi
BRFite
Posts: 1409
Joined: 12 Mar 2005 02:30

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Rishirishi »

Operation Parakram's original objectives were to cross the LOC and wipe out terrorist camps in PoK and not cross international border into Pakistan... But within days after India started mobilizing, Pak moved most of the camps from PoK to Pakistan...
Thus the original objective failed before we even mobilized fully.
I think the objective was not the terrorist camps at all. Killing a few dozen terrorists would not justify the cost and risk. I think the objective was to tell the Pakis "we do not think you will use your nukes, even if we bomb you" . It was a game changer. Now the Pakis have to evaluate the possibility of retaliation, and cant rely on the Nuke to save them in the same way. This is a huge problem for TSP, as they can't just push terrorism, without having to invest in expensive military hardware. I further think it was a preparation for the removal of article 371.

The IAF loss of mig is a small detail, that hardly matters. At the end of the day, Pakis got a PR victory (let us be frank here), but India changed the game for TSP.
Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3565
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya G »

26th Feb was out and out success for IAF despite the aborted launches of multiple munitions.
27th Feb was a mixed day for IAF with fratricide of Mi-17 being the lowest point.

We lost PR war because IAF simply did not engage promptly.

For posterity please find database of missile launches in balakot episode.

Image

Image

Image
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya_V »

Any idea of how the Burraq drone came to the Eastern side of Naliya airbase, it must have come from the Arabian sea and not directly from Pak.

Not sure whether Muzafarrabad and Chakoti were Terror camps or Pak miltary SAM's. Also Swift retreat had 3 LGB launches from Paki F-16's which missed only cause the F-16's had to turn back when the Mig-21 Bisons intertwined.

PAF deliberately missing is bogus and face saver put out by them.
Last edited by Aditya_V on 22 Mar 2021 13:53, edited 1 time in total.
Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3565
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya G »

Aditya_V wrote:...

Not sure whether Muzafarrabad and Chakoti were Terror camps or Pak miltary SAM's. Also Swift retreat had 3 LGB launches from Paki F-16's which missed only cause the F-16's had to turn back when the Mig-21 Bisons intertwined.

PAF deliberately missing is bogus and face saver put out by them.
I cannot find any reference to F-16 launching LGBs ... it was reported in early days only.

PAF officially claims only 2 H-4s and 4 REKs launched - much lesser than Indian claim.
Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 14332
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya_V »

PAF would not want to admit launching LGB's as they can never be launched to miss as they claim.

Here is discussion Nitin Gokhale has a discussion with Air Marshal (retd.) SBP Sinha mentioning it. The retired Air Marshal clearly mentions 3 LGB's dropped at 7:45. He also mentions 3 bomb hits and photos from ANI at 7:50-7:55. So clearly 3 LGB's dropped by 3 F-16's which would have hit Rajouri Brigade HQ if not the Mig-21 Bisons coming in and stopping them from giving the LGB's laser guidance. Why would PAF do this? The only reason can be apart from Non uniformed Jihadis, PA and PAF must have some miltary causualties on 26-Feb-19 morning which they don't want to acknowledge for H&D and we will not state for International opinion.



Air Marshal is very clear and it seems the Pakistani Army was also initially in the dark believing fizzle ya had shot down 2 IAF aircraft.
Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3565
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Post by Aditya G »

The issue with LGB theory is that it would have required F-16s to enter Indian airspace - which they never did.
Post Reply