MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Gagan » 21 Apr 2019 01:39

^^^
That was a priceless moment!
Dimran blabbering in Paki Parliament!

Basically the whole Pakistani establishment - faujis and civilians surrendered to India's threat.

I am surprised that Dimran didn't get Coup-ed after this. If you notice the rhetoric in Paki TV channels, they were claiming that returning WgCo Abhinandan was Dimran's decision {The man who can't take a susu break without Qamar bajwa allowing it, and he'll release WgCo Abinandan :rotfl: }

I guess two facts come forward from this episode
1. A coup is not possible in Pakistan now in the present scenrio
2. Come what may, Pakistan will not go to ALL OUT WAR with India, Period.

I like the situation that followed after the surgical strikes and balakot - Pakistani fauj denied the incident! My evil mind can now see many possibilities and oppertunities :twisted:

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby chetak » 21 Apr 2019 02:30

negi wrote:UB sir has a sweet knife , cuts deep but slow and one feels the pain only after checking the wound . :mrgreen:


also called the halal cut. 8)

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Apr 2019 03:05

Actually I owe Karan an apology and THANKS! It was the map posted with MiG crash (NOT SHOT DOWN!!!! ) occurring WEST of the F-16 explosion, that got me thinking. Yes, that is quite possible, and probable, considering the scenarios, and given the evidence of the horizontal-aspect crash-landing- which can only occur after a glide. A gliding airplane goes much further longitudinally than it goes vertically as long as it stays statically stable (which means tail hasn't fallen off). Pilot and seat ejecting can reduce the stability somewhat, but maybe missiles and fuel expended compensates for that. If it wasn't a gliding landing, the nose would not have been recognizable. If the MiG glided eastwards it should have come down east of the LOC. The pilot was blown westward by winds, that is understandable.

The other thing that video-watchers need to grasp, is the very long time that it should take for the parachutes to reach ground. The descent rate is like 23 feet per second. If the chute opens at say 6000 feet AGL, that takes 260 seconds or over 4 MINUTES. None of those videos is that long, so u r seeing only brief snips of what happened. In a very small section of sky. The big uncertainty is the altitude at which (a) the F-16 exploded and (b) the MiG lost power. Best bet for (a) is around 10,000 feet MSL, which was about 7000 to 9000 feet AGL. These altitudes are low enough that the parachutes may open as soon as the pilot has slowed down to acceptable speed and wants them to open (no risk of hypoxia).

The MiG is less certain, he may have been higher or lower when he had to bail out. Since he was not keen on hanging in the sky above POK for too long (too many enthusiasts on the ground with AKs could race to greet him while he was still literally hanging in the sky), he may have delayed chute opening until he was at maybe 3000 feet AGL; just guessing wildly. Probably, IAF pilots have training in "HALO" (high altitude low opening) jumps for operations over unfriendly areas. Note that per the initial cellphone/radio intercepts the Pakis did not quite know where he had come down - until he walked into the Brigade HQ and scared the pakistan out of them. :mrgreen:

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ramana » 21 Apr 2019 07:39

There is a hidden player deserves PVC in all this sequence of events

Something ->Pulwama->Balakot->Nowshera->NOTAM->KSA 3T/nook nood.

But is happy of service to Ma Bharati

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ramana » 21 Apr 2019 07:41

UB how far west of LOC did the Mig 21 fall?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby VikramS » 21 Apr 2019 07:41

Samir Joshi's observation that the R73 shot was a frontal aspect shot into the F-16 turning in towards the Mig21 is something which is not getting the attention it deserves.

Could the Big White Puff be the R73 exploding in the frontal plane of the F-16 with the expanding rod warhead forming the circle through which the F-16 flew?

Also AM Chopra's image came out a few hours of the engagement and probably had incomplete information.

Sameer Joshi had time to reach out to more sources and get definitive answers.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Apr 2019 07:50

Assuming that we place some credence in the straight-contrail video that has gone missing. why would the contrails be straight for this event? Why would an exploding F-16 not generate tell-tale black-smoking debris falling?
The "turn towards the MiG gives way too much credit to the PAF. They were west of the LOC, and had dropped their long-range tanks. Mission was over, the laser designator mission was over too. It was time to head to safety ASAP on full afterburner, not hang around.
Besides, if it was a missile hit on the face, two pilots bailing out seems nearly impossible. One has to wonder about the "sources": so far all who claimed Inside Info have proven to be BS-peddlers. Those on the other side such as Rishi's "Tom Cooper" are worse, of course.

BTW, photos elsewhere on the web confirm that the seat-Paki-Separatorinvolves a white-puff event as well. But that would occur well away from the main contrails. Also the canopy blow-out involves explosive charges in some planes. I think the depressurization of the cockpit generates significant moisture condensation in the cold outside air.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby SaiK » 21 Apr 2019 08:14

UlanBatori wrote:..
Real heroes are like that onlee. ..
ahem! thank you saab. :)

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby SaiK » 21 Apr 2019 08:19

ramana wrote:UB how far west of LOC did the Mig 21 fall?

The place most likely Abhi was captured [that is the river spot near horran village] /POK

Image

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby rohitvats » 21 Apr 2019 12:12

We Indians tend to be masters at self-flagellation while making our adversaries appear as Supermen!

The tweet exchange posted above, and I'm also tagged on one set, is a clear example.

The randi-rona is quite nauseating. We're supposedly doing a critical analysis in the tweets mentioned earlier (one about IAF versus PAF and other about China developing an AESA radar based J-11). But what in fact we're displaying is a classic case of self-flagellation. And we always have a bunch of people who'll go the extra length to create nonsensical scenarios to show how bad a position we're in.

If it has been IAF in place of PAF and vice-versa, the same bunch which is praising PAF would've castigated IAF for bad BVR tactics and for not being able to hit a single target inpsite of having 3:1 superiority in numbers. And how ineffective our AEW&C is for not managing to detect Mig-21 Bison on time etc etc.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rahul M » 21 Apr 2019 12:17

which tweets ?

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Apr 2019 12:18

Plus the fact that the JF17 could not engage the M2000 to spoof them. Notice the F16 wasted multiple Amraam's to move the Su 30's the JF 17 were twiddling their thumbs with the M2000 being a similar distance from them. So other than downing the Mig 21 Bison and capturing our pilot for display nothing went right for PAF. No wonder Pakis shut down their airspace for a whole month and while we did nothing. I think PAF got a shock of our capabilities.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Apr 2019 12:22

milindc wrote:
gaurav.p wrote:Some tweets from the given link
https://mobile.twitter.com/joe_sameer/s ... 9867281408


I know this will not be liked in this forum, but I'm glad we are now aware the 250+ Su 30 MKI and Mig 29 with R77s are useless against F16s until they expend their AIM-120. We were assuming that Su 30 and Mig 29 will have air superiority roles but seems they are first protecting themselves. :(
With the Air Marshal coming in and stating that we need Rafale asap, this glaring shortcoming is being exposed.
It also tells us how much rot these Congress buggers left at IAF and Army. :evil:

Yeah right Amraam did not get the name slammer by having 5 misses. In a real conflict imagine PAF would be BVR nude in 1/2 an hour with no IAF aircraft down if they use similar tactics. Effectively handing over their airspace to the IAF. After that 1/2 an hour it will be longelwala multiplied by 2000 times
Last edited by Aditya_V on 21 Apr 2019 12:25, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 21 Apr 2019 12:23

Bluntly put. Some of the people involved have no care or concern about ground realities but one pic of some PLAAF testbed is enough to state Su30 MKIs are obsolete, brochures are peddled whilst solemnly stating brochure specs shouldn't be used..the irony of it all. And of course, no mention as to why, if the PLAAF flankers are so awe inspiring, is the PLAAF buying the Su-35.


rohitvats wrote:We Indians tend to be masters at self-flagellation while making our adversaries appear as Supermen!

The tweet exchange posted above, and I'm also tagged on one set, is a clear example.

The randi-rona is quite nauseating. We're supposedly doing a critical analysis in the tweets mentioned earlier (one about IAF versus PAF and other about China developing an AESA radar based J-11). But what in fact we're displaying is a classic case of self-flagellation. And we always have a bunch of people who'll go the extra length to create nonsensical scenarios to show how bad a position we're in.

If it has been IAF in place of PAF and vice-versa, the same bunch which is praising PAF would've castigated IAF for bad BVR tactics and for not being able to hit a single target inpsite of having 3:1 superiority in numbers. And how ineffective our AEW&C is for not managing to detect Mig-21 Bison on time etc etc.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Prem Kumar » 21 Apr 2019 15:02

The man himself has gone on record that he warned Pakistan that he'll roger them if Abhinandan was not returned that night!

Guys: you will like this quote. Pure halal language.

Pakistan was warned that it would be a qatl ki raat :D


Had warned Pakistan of consequences if IAF pilot not returned

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby krishna_krishna » 21 Apr 2019 17:04

ramana wrote:There is a hidden player deserves PVC in all this sequence of events

Something ->Pulwama->Balakot->Nowshera->NOTAM->KSA 3T/nook nood.

But is happy of service to Ma Bharati


Not for this thread but still:

Ramana, I agree with PVC part but not with KSA 3T part, if you follow image int on the twitter several facilities before balakot became hot in the recent past (2-4 years) meaning they started storing the "maal", based on size(s) of the storage and increase in production do not believe porkis are nook good.

They may have parted with KSA part of the maal/deal they had initially agreed upon/ for 2B in investment they got is for the maal the saudis procured off the shelf. Does not relate to porkis being empty the facilities are still hot based on GE and the production ones (I assume are running at same rate).

So yes there may be decrease in numbers but they do have them.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby fanne » 21 Apr 2019 19:26

One more news that confirm the F-16 going down (if it needs any confirmation).
In the timesnow interview, Modi ji is answering some unrelated question, where he says IAF downed a TSPAF plane. He would know the truth, IAF would have debriefed him. He has no reason to even bring this topic if it were not right (he runs a very high risk of electoral loss if proven wrong, and saying that brings him no extra vote).

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Apr 2019 19:29

ramana wrote:UB how far west of LOC did the Mig 21 fall?


Good question. Answer is complicated by many false/wrong claims. I do not know whether the F-16 actually came across the LOC. Also, where exactly (GPS coords) is the military Brigade HQ that was targeted? Knowing that one can draw a cone of where the F-16 had to be, to act as laser designator (had to have direct line of sight). My guess is that our ground controller lady coolly figured out which was the designator a/c and vectored WCDr AV towards that, as a priority kill. She probably was the one who saved the day for the Brigade HQ and turned a big blast/fire spectacle into a fizzle and miss. Many ppl on the ground owe their lives to her and AV. Now you understand why she is getting the praise and honors: it is not like "Oh! A WIMMENS! She could operate RADAR?" :eek:

OK, next we need an accurate timeline. When they saw the MiG(s), the F-16 turned tail, and crossed the LOC, maybe climbing to 20K feet and then diving for the deck and coming up again. I am fairly certain that they were heading west ASAP. AV saw that the target designator was now ineffective (if you dive for the deck then there is no line of sight to the target, so he didn't illuminate with radar etc, just followed per controller's guidance. Controller warned him that he was approaching LOC. But he saw that he had a chance to down the target designator, so he crossed the LOC.

OK, at this point (as he was crossing LOC) he was travelling at least around 300, maybe 500 or even 600 m/s. Now the rest has to be figured out. The only remaining data that we have is that the MiG nose did not shatter and the plane seems to have belly-landed at fairly low speed (not high subsonic or supersonic). So we have to allow about 4 to 7 km even at L/D of 4; maybe even more. He must have fired the missile very soon (2 seconds? 3 seconds? after crossing LOC because the Pakis were cocky that yindoos would not follow them across LOC, so they came to level, fast flight towards home. That was when they realized that "they had a problem", and bailed out.

Assuming that the F-16 was 1 km ahead when the MiG fired, the F-16 was some 3 km minimum west of LOC when the missile was launched. Another 5 to 10km before it blew up ( pilots had bailed out). So MiG was about 4 to 9km west of LOC. There is no "Target Destroyed" comm reported from the MiG. Why? Because AV was too busy to communicate. This is why I say that he flew essentially where the debris cloud blossomed. Something really bad happened: if there was an "May Din" signal IAF is not saying. He bailed out - so per this calculation, he bailed out some 5 to 10 km WEST of LOC.

The wind was blowing westwards at low altitude, so his chute was blown further WEST, so he must have come down about 11km WEST of LOC.

Unfortunately, that does not jive with SaiK's estimate of where AV came down (what is the basis, Saiji? )

Then the plane must have glided. If the altitude was at least 1000m, the plane glided at least 4000m. So it came down 14 km WEST of LOC. No smoke etc visible even from planes in the sky east of LOC.

The alternative is that AV turned around, at about 9km West of LOC and headed home, and AV bailed out at about say, 5km west, and drifted back in the wind to land at 7km like SaiK/s terrain map says. Then his plane must have crashed just 1km from LOC.

Why didn't Indian observers see the smoke cloud rising from the ground then?
If not the ground troops, the planes in the air must have seen it very clearly. But apparently not.

So you see my problem with SaiK's terrain map. Karan's blue star is vague enough, it is a few km west of where the F-16's pieces came down per his red star.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Apr 2019 22:02

To summarize:
1) There is a set of concentric circles to be drawn to locate where the MiG may have come down. This is because the MiG did not disintegrate, and glided down. The two circles are for glide Lift/Drag ratios of 7 and 4. Seven if the plane stayed close to level, 4 if it was at higher angle of attack. I think 4 is more likely because it was going fairly slowly when it hit the ground. That was not a Mach 0.7 landing!! Maybe Mach 0.3 or 0.4.
2) However there also uncertainty about the altitude where the MiG discovered that he had to bail out. We assume 1000 meters (3000 feet) above ground level which was ~ 2000 meters to 3000 meters AGL (6000 feet to 10,000 feet MSL). For a given L/D, the distance travelled goes up (ROUGHLY assuming Tangent of an angle = the angle, etc which would bring sneers from the u-no-hu) proportional to initial altitude, for the same speed.
3) The radius of the outer circle is 7 to 10km. The radius of the inner circle is 4 to 7km. The MiG came down between these circles. Depending on whether the MiG got incapcitated and AV bailed out before, during or after AV turned 180 degrees to head back East, the direction could have been anything: we don't know if he would have wanted to turn right or left to make the U-turn to come home.
4) Reports from Indian forces said that the pilot (and presumably all 3) were blown westwards by the winds.
5) They MIGHT suggest that otherwise AV might have come down close enough to the LOC for a rescue attempt, but we cannot be sure that they meant to imply that.
6) Question is whether (and why) they did not see the smoke from the plane crash, if this was the case.
7) That says that the F-16 explosion and the MiG bailout happened very close by - both within sight of the LOC
8) - but the MiG crashed much further west and the smoke could not be seen from the LOC.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby SaiK » 21 Apr 2019 22:51

I am just assuming the nearest river point from horran village. We can take it up to how much ever deep we can get on the river lines [within horran village map] /again going by the assumption that it was horran.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 21 Apr 2019 23:03

Why river? Because of the mention that one of the pilots tried to escape by jumping in a river? That was probably one of the unfortunate PAFis. WCDr AV was bleeding on his face, but showed no signs of being wet. So that was not he. Also the pilot who "jumped in a river" was also reported as shot in the leg by the kind POKis. F-16 pilots may have fallen in that general neighborhood, but even 2-second separation between ejections is a kilometer in distance.

In general, the pilots + seats had far higher drag coefficient, and no lift, so they would decelerate forward speed very fast, and fall straight down, until chute opened and wind caught chute and pushed it at maybe 30kmph. Big pieces of the F-16 may have fallen far forward (west) of that along the flight direction. MiG MUCH further out because it was coming down in one pieces in fast glide. So we can draw the circles for the MiG starting from about where the PAF pilot was hunted down and killed.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby A_Gupta » 22 Apr 2019 00:33

News articles that mention Horran as the village near where the Mig-21 came down:
Yawn, Feb 28, https://www.dawn.com/news/1466569
BBC Islamabad, March 1, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47397418

Video of a person in a stream surrounded by other people, purporting to be the capture of Wg. Cdr. Abhinandan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDnMkHTEFow


PS: Horra'n is about 4 kilometers from the closest point of the LoC.
Last edited by A_Gupta on 22 Apr 2019 00:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby shravan » 22 Apr 2019 00:40

Each and every video including ispr conference talks about multiple pilots on that day.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby A_Gupta » 22 Apr 2019 00:43

shravan wrote:Each and every video including ispr conference talks about multiple pilots on that day.


Yes. There are three pilots mentioned, two presumably those of the F-16, one in the hospital, and one dead; and one "in our custody", presumably Wg. Cdr. Abhinandan.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby shravan » 22 Apr 2019 00:51

First TV news to reach there was from samaa TV.. And whatever was said in that interview can be crossed checked from other videos.

Don't have the link now. That was the video which was quoted by most papers on that day. He even talks about the old white beard guy.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby A_Gupta » 22 Apr 2019 01:07

This purports to be the downed Mig-21. As Ulan Batori says, the nose is merely ellipsified. What strikes me that the grass was not ignited, and there was not a general wild fire. Second, at 0:39 there is a person whose shadow is quite clear, and that, along with the general latitude and where the sun is at the end of February should enable one to deduce reasonably precisely the heading of the downed plane on the ground.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJV77q3EwCc


This next picture was taken when the sun was overhead and the plane's remains appear to be still smoking.
https://twitter.com/Justin_Br0nk/status ... 14/photo/1

It might be a fair guess that the youtube is from closer to sundown.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby A_Gupta » 22 Apr 2019 01:21

UlanBatori wrote:To summarize:
1) There is a set of concentric circles to be drawn to locate where the MiG may have come down. This is because the MiG did not disintegrate, and glided down. The two circles are for glide Lift/Drag ratios of 7 and 4. Seven if the plane stayed close to level, 4 if it was at higher angle of attack. I think 4 is more likely because it was going fairly slowly when it hit the ground. That was not a Mach 0.7 landing!! Maybe Mach 0.3 or 0.4.
2) However there also uncertainty about the altitude where the MiG discovered that he had to bail out. We assume 1000 meters (3000 feet) above ground level which was ~ 2000 meters to 3000 meters AGL (6000 feet to 10,000 feet MSL). For a given L/D, the distance travelled goes up (ROUGHLY assuming Tangent of an angle = the angle, etc which would bring sneers from the u-no-hu) proportional to initial altitude, for the same speed.
3) The radius of the outer circle is 7 to 10km. The radius of the inner circle is 4 to 7km. The MiG came down between these circles. Depending on whether the MiG got incapcitated and AV bailed out before, during or after AV turned 180 degrees to head back East, the direction could have been anything: we don't know if he would have wanted to turn right or left to make the U-turn to come home.


From my previous post, I'd say the downed plane is headed south of south-east.

4) Reports from Indian forces said that the pilot (and presumably all 3) were blown westwards by the winds.
5) They MIGHT suggest that otherwise AV might have come down close enough to the LOC for a rescue attempt, but we cannot be sure that they meant to imply that.
6) Question is whether (and why) they did not see the smoke from the plane crash, if this was the case.


There was very little fire, IMO. Landed in dry grass, and the grass did not ignite. Compare and contrast with the dry grass fire at the Bengaluru car show.

7) That says that the F-16 explosion and the MiG bailout happened very close by - both within sight of the LOC
8) - but the MiG crashed much further west and the smoke could not be seen from the LOC.


Could also be a function of terrain, also. If the MiG came down west of a ridge, there wasn't much fire; and the winds were blowing westwards, dispersing smoke before it rises above the ridge, it might not be visible from the LoC.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 22 Apr 2019 01:27

The engine parts (fuselage mid-section) seemed pretty-well trashed and blackened, as in a fuel fire. But that may have been very localized; the aluminum did not ignite. But given the festivities in progress at the LOC, a plume of smoke may not have been recognizable from other plumes of smoke.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby A_Gupta » 22 Apr 2019 01:36

Looking at Google Earth, the LOC close to Horran is roughly on a ridge around 850 meters elevation. West of the LoC is a valley at around 750 meters. Further west is a ridge at 1000-1200 meters. Horran is further west at around 790 meters. A kind of view from roughly where the LoC is, but two kilometers up instead of 850 meters, looking towards Horran is here. The Horran red map marker should be visible at the top center of the picture. You will need to try to view the picture at full size.
https://answer2pakteahouse.blogspot.com ... orran.html

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 22 Apr 2019 02:20

Guptaji,
This may have been the real heroism of the WCDr in pressing home the engagement. He was vectored in to stop the massive attack by 24 Paki aircraft each carrying 2000lb bomb, on an Indian Brigade HQ. He had a full load of fuel, no problem there. But very little time at combat power, and no one expected that he would do what he did.

Time to leave this dhaga :eek: I now understand many things.

Bottom line: Wing Commander Abhinandan Vartaman stopped this massive attack by forcing the target designator to break off and thus rendering all their bombs useless. He then made sure they could not come back, by shooting the aggressor down. He also disposed of an aircraft that was beyond its lifetime. Pakis had to carry it off to the dump. He did these with full knowledge of the risk and in total disregard for himself. A true hero. And in doing so, he gave the PAF the shock of their miserable loser lives. :rotfl:

PAF reminds me of the poodle "Hercules" that stayed behind my neighbor's wire fence and, disregarding Official Orders, kept barking at me as I worked near there. For weeks and weeks. One day I happened to have a clump of clay handy, and scored a precision hit right on the nose. Very mild onlee, but aim was perfect. Shock of shocks. Did not imagine that his position had such vulnerability and exposure. He never came near the Line of Control again.
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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby A_Gupta » 22 Apr 2019 03:19

^^^ Eventually, we will know. Hopefully our memories are still functioning when the info. is finally out.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Haridas » 22 Apr 2019 05:07

Deleted
Last edited by Haridas on 22 Apr 2019 08:14, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Haridas » 22 Apr 2019 05:50

UlanBatori wrote:All this makes UBCN look far better in accuracy. Ultra-detailed radar maps, and they get the towns as right as Columbus had his continents. .........

...... on this highly-adored MIL Forum. They get the fundamentals wrong - and how! It's like Norm Augustine's Laws:
In the first year of a major program the Pentagon's project may be $4,387,686,213.23. A year later it becomes $6,598,686,213.23
The 23 cents remain unchanged.

Goat herder aren't you making fun with the accurate two decimal place uber scientifiq numbers ! Stick to your simple life of herding onree.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 22 Apr 2019 06:05

Do PAF ppl call their boss sardar, to the peasants? This brings up interesting question: in a 2-seater used as target designator, who sits in the front and who in the back? If it was just an electronics geek maybe the TFTA Commander sits up front, but if the pilot can do the target designation, the rear-seater might be the WCdr directing the whole pack (unlikely I know). IOW, the Controller sent AV after the Queen Bee!!
Because if this fellow was in the FRONT seat and punched out first, he burned his rear-seat comrade with his rocket exhaust. That would explain the rear seater being in poor condition, though he managed to punch out too. Just a wild guess (story has Human Interest if u can call Pakis Human, for UBCN's Human Interest Division).

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 22 Apr 2019 07:15

Haridas wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:Has this one been posted before?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSBgWN9rLP8



This one is 100% video of downed Fizzalya Airforce pilot. One can hear
...."use aur bhi administration they? "(English: Where there more men?) Most likely asking if the stricken plane had more pilot (s).

Pilot's answer is got garbled "... sardar nikal gaya" meaning the commander (other) pilot too got out of the plane.

Video mat banao. 100 number ko phone kar. (Don't make video, call police number 100)

This pilots parachute color has bright orange portion. This pilot was not lynched, the other pilot he referred to was with similar orange (Hindu color ) prachute was lynched. That second F16 pilot was apparently semi concious (unlike this pilot) thus could not engage in conversation with muslim jihad torments who thought he was enemy Hindu/Sikh pilot.

BTW you can see the marking on the back of the pilot's helmet that could possibly be traced to sherdil squadron.


This is Mig 21 Bison crash in Rajastan in March 2019

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Haridas » 22 Apr 2019 08:13

Aditya_V wrote:
This is Mig 21 Bison crash in Rajastan in March 2019

OK thanks deleted.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 22 Apr 2019 08:36

UlanBatori wrote:Since mid-February, some 50-odd Indians and 800+ Pakis have died violently in/near J&K. Not counting the 30 or so Iranians and some 200 or 300 Pakis in/near Balochistan.

To me the most heartwarming aspect of the whole episode is that India flat-out threatened all-out war, nuclear be damned, to get ONE pilot returned unharmed. I hope ***THAT** becomes standard policy!! Dimran jabbering "MODI HAS THREATENED TO USE MISSILES" to his "parliament" of piranha, was priceless.
Perhaps Putinji's demeanor through the Syrian war, was watched with deep interest in dilli.


Modi's mocking of the Pak refrain we have nukes is causing deep anguish in US based NPAs, including goat lovers of Indian origin like that Narang fellow. They can't accept the fact that an Indian leader, brown no less, is just showing the middle finger to their cherished theories of equal equal viz Pak.

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Lalmohan » 22 Apr 2019 17:52

concur with guptaji, the mig is point roughly SE

pic is lateish afternoon - shadows are lengthening but light is still strong - maybe 3pm; sun is WSW and shadows are perpendicular to line of aircraft. the airframe is flattened but not smashed in a nose forward hit - so has crash-landed at 'relatively' low speed and in somewhat of a nose up attitude

we do not know if the aircraft turned after abhi ejected, but assuming he was manoeuvring to dodge the missile, anything is possible. there are a number of possibilities for the way in which the 21 actually crashed, its possible that it flat spinned down or flew down and then stalled before impact to land on its belly - we don't know

the picture of the tail fin peppered with shrapnel was on the earliest incarnation of this thread - i have looked but can't find it. Its also not there on google images. Absolutely nothing to do with the Mi17, very distinctive IAF Mig21 picture consistent with other pictures of the 21. its disappearance could be to do with suppressing news of AMRAAM use. mods may have better search tools.

the video's supposedly of the combat itself are morning and sun position is difficult to tell

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rishi » 22 Apr 2019 18:58

Deleted

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Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Lalmohan » 22 Apr 2019 19:02

members only?


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