MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2880
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby nam » 11 Mar 2019 01:23

If he is sure of the area just looking at the position of the parachute in the air, then it must be a neighbouring village or town.

How many of us can know a place just by looking up in sky, unless it is a nearby place?

Google maps should give us the names of the neighbouring village.

Given the F16 was hit first, would it have fallen more closer to the LoC than the Mig21? Need to look at villages on the east?

Haridas
BRFite
Posts: 609
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 07:53

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Haridas » 11 Mar 2019 01:36

Amber G. wrote:
manju wrote:
This reminded of my high school buddy who dropped a few bombs on pakiland... He dies testing Saras in 2009

I feel sadness. It reminds me of such loss. One of our close friend - brother of one of my physics professor- took part in both 1965 and 1971, got MVC but died later as a test pilot.

MVC Wing Commander Padmanabh Gautam comes to my mind.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmanabha_Gautam

After getting the news at school I and friends bolted from the old Kendriya Vidyalaya Pune, in search of crash site. Couldn't find it, bcoz were seaching on wrong end of the runway path.
If I was at home I would have seen it for the 2 story apartment has wide clear view of the other end all the way to the bombing range.

Off topic. I stop here.

Bishwa
BRFite
Posts: 306
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Bishwa » 11 Mar 2019 01:43

nam wrote:If he is sure of the area just looking at the position of the parachute in the air, then it must be a neighbouring village or town.

Given the F16 was hit first, would it have fallen more closer to the LoC than the Mig21? Need to look at villages on the east?


Indian civilian eye witness say a jet came down opposite of Indian villages of Sher Makadi and Bohani Panchayat in Naushera sector. And they saw parachutes deploy.

Can someone identify these locations on a map?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci2iwpeSC_Q

Added later : Bohani is visible here https://satellites.pro/Pakistan_map#33. ... .110268,12
It is in the bulge near Jhangar

Khambah which is mentioned in the video as the place opposite which a jet fell is also visible.. sher makadi must be close to it

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8341
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rakesh » 11 Mar 2019 02:26

krishna_krishna wrote:This is my last on this, Rakesh please read my post I never said that we expect not to lose any aircraft or not have any action (response) from enemy.....

I made that post in response to this from you Sir...

krishna_krishna wrote:unfortunately this is shown as war trophy and will be paraded at some museum in karachi so would detest from showing those pics.

Unless we have some credible evidence coming out in open on downed F-16 (Not any time soon), till that point this will be psyops match that porkis won. I have no doubt that truth will come out in next 1- 3yrs however till that point this will not be much of use.

So let them show it as war trophy. Knowing the Porkis, they will likely place the helmet in an oxygen free glass chamber at some PAF museum. Perhaps even on this March 23rd (their Republic Day I believe) they may parade it at Islamabad. So let them. Why take takleef over it? In fact, as Karan beautifully said ---> OWN THAT PICTURE! :)

See their mindset Krishna. They are so shallow, that they need that helmet for self affirmation that they took on a larger air force and supposedly came out on top. What they are not telling their people, is the thappad they got and the more thappads they will get, for future terrorist attacks. They need that helmet so badly to show how they supposedly bested the Indian Air Force. That helmet is all they have and a PAF Mess Bill for one tea that they gave Wing Commander Varthaman. And on the bill, the PAF wrote the cost for that tea was one MiG-21. This is how pathetic they are.

Don't get caught up in the psyops match. It is designed to do that just - psyche you out! :) Tomorrow if another air strike has to happen, we may lost another pilot or pilots. And they may do the same thing again. The question to ask is have the objectives been met? If so, then it is a success. Losses are collateral damages that are bound to happen. One cannot get wrapped over it or the psy-ops that Pakistan will do to cover her tracks.

This is what both of India's enemies - China and Pakistan - are trying to do. They want you to believe the hype and the propaganda surrounding their military. Their counter strike package had no intention of striking anything in India, but rather to draw the IAF's CAP team into PoK. In the ensuing melee, Wing Commander Varthaman gave chase, shot down a F-16 but unfortunately lost his own plane. That is all that happened. Rest all is PAF fluff and bedtime stories that they tell their gullible population. It is only through these (and other) lies, that the elite in Pakistan can continue to milk the system for their benefit.

I remember the late 90s when I used to visit other forums and argue with Pakis on IAF vs PAF. I see their behaviour on twitter now and nothing has changed. Still the same old arguments - martial race, Hindu/Zionist war against Muslim Ummah, one Pakistani is equal to 10 Indians, MM Alam is our hero, Pakistan's GDP is greater than India, etc, etc, etc. All nonsense.

This is the reality of Pakistan. This is what focusing all their hatred on India and breeding terrorism has done to their people...

1) Malnutrition Crisis ---> https://reliefweb.int/report/pakistan/m ... ion-crisis

2) Water Crisis ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWraEBec0Vg

3) Watch this video from 24:50 ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fOYJ3_ZppM
*Listen to what that Pakistani Muslim is saying about their so-called Ummah. Hilarious!!! :lol:

krishna_krishna wrote:Let see how much AIM-120C protects them, there will be more attacks on India after afghan theater heats up after massa departure. We need to demonstrate that now. Porkis will retaliate but are not match to what we can do to them.

Nothing is going to come out from the AIM-120C wreckage. America will make some noise, slap them on the wrist and the status quo will continue. America knew fully well against who those AIM-120Cs were going to be used against. The Taliban does not have an air force, after all. The lesson to learn is that India is on her own vis-a-viv Pakistan (and China). Whatever steps that need to be taken, will be taken by us only. America will only look out for her own interests and we should (and this Govt is) do the same. And supposedly we are America's strategic defense partner! :lol:

krishna_krishna wrote:Right now India could not coerce Pakistan militarily at this moment, if the growth differential between Pakistan and India continues to grow, the technological asymmetry will increase to the point where strategies of coercion could kick into play. That scenario could see very different results on the ground. For instance, India will possess the anti-access, area-denial (A2/AD) S-400 system by 2020. That system is not just defensive but can also be employed in a preemptive offensive role. Typically, A2/AD systems ensure that they can deny a mission to incoming hostiles (anti-access) and ensure safety of their own area against any hostile action (area denial mode). If things do not change through engagement, we could see India use the S-400 in any future round. That would be an entirely different ballgame altogether.

We do not need the S-400 to deny the PAF. What we have right now in the IAF is more than sufficient. The ROEs were not to shoot down PAF fighters until they crossed the LoC. Once they crossed, then it became a WVR dogfight. Next time, even that ROE will not be there. In a future dogfight, we will shoot them down again. If the wreckage falls on our side...that is icing on the cake. If the wreckage falls on their side, we can still confirm that we shot them down. That is what Netra AEW&C just confirmed in this incident.

Ignore the rest of the noise.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18888
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 11 Mar 2019 02:41

Right now, the IAF strength wise is poised to go up significantly.
Almost all its re-equipment plans are midway. Its Mirages, MiGs, Jaguars, Su-30s are all being upgraded, havent received upgrades fully. Starting September, the Rafales arrive. The S-400s thereafter. There are a host of domestic acquisitions and programs in trials, in contract negotiation, or awaiting production clearance. The IAF is at 32 squadrons & is slated to receive more advanced airframes.
Yet, via judicious upgrades, purchases, inductions & serviceability improvements, the IAF has kept itself in fighting form.
However, in the coming 2-3 years, the scenario will change lopsidedly in favor of the IAF.
Domestic arms pipeline, electronics pipeline opening up will be the biggest ones. Think of MiG-29s receiving Uttam, Astra Mk2, SAAW, ASB Glide, NGARM, domestic EW, ODL, PG-HSLD... the list is huge & most of these systems are in advanced trials.
Add a MMRCA selection to the above (hopefully more Rafales) & ramp up in LCA production, and soon you will see a huge change in the IAF's capability matrix, and PAF returning to good old '71 & Kargil style ops. Circle over Afghanistan while defending Pakistan etc.

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2880
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby nam » 11 Mar 2019 03:00

POK has been disconnected from internet for a while now..

Kakkaji
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3258
Joined: 23 Oct 2002 11:31

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Kakkaji » 11 Mar 2019 05:13

Bishwa wrote:At 4sec in https://www.samaa.tv/video/2019/02/watc ... bhinandan/

he says something like "chatri hawa me ghoom rahi thi... teen chatri.. ak chali gayi XXX ki tarfa.. ak hamari gau me giri hai..."

What is XXX that he said?

His gau is Horran Kotla


I swear I saw a video immediately after the Feb 27 dogfight, that seemed to be shot by a cell phone video, and showed 3 parachutes coming down from the sky. I don't remember which channel it was on.

ArjunPandit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3311
Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby ArjunPandit » 11 Mar 2019 05:45

Karan M wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:It might also have to do with the confidence in R-77 in long range engagement & the need to preserve missiles during CAP as parshuram mentioned above.

All the more reason to induct Astra in numbers right away!


Let me just say it would be extremely pointless on our part to assume the CAGs adverse remarks against the first batch of R77s ordered in the late 90's, early 2000s after Kargil apply to the entire IAF inventory.

I thought long and hard before posting the above, the reason I do so is this. I dont want the next round of myth making in the internet to start about how Su-30s are defenseless in BVR and hence PAF will win etc etc. You know how it is.

Thu run the risk of idrw copying the second para verbatim

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13866
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Mar 2019 06:41

nam wrote:POK has been disconnected from internet for a while now..

UBCN cites inside reports given on condition of anonymity, that there is intense rebellion against PA/PAF after IAF attacked Muzzafarabad. POKis feel naked against Indian retaliation which they feel is unfairly targeting them, for the sins of the PakJabis. Extreme "revenge" being taken by PAF/PA friends for lynching of WingCdr Baccha bin Air Marshal Bandar ul Thundaar and his "Jordanian Prince" co-pilot. Pakjabis feel that POK is riddled with RAA agints. Someone is giving Indians live blow-by-blow account of target effectiveness of Bofors and 155mm.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18888
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 11 Mar 2019 07:00

Rakesh wrote:I remember the late 90s when I used to visit other forums and argue with Pakis on IAF vs PAF. I see their behaviour on twitter now and nothing has changed. Still the same old arguments - martial race, Hindu/Zionist war against Muslim Ummah, one Pakistani is equal to 10 Indians, MM Alam is our hero, Pakistan's GDP is greater than India, etc, etc, etc. All nonsense.

This is the reality of Pakistan. This is what focusing all their hatred on India and breeding terrorism has done to their people...

1) Malnutrition Crisis ---> https://reliefweb.int/report/pakistan/m ... ion-crisis

2) Water Crisis ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWraEBec0Vg

3) Watch this video from 24:50 ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fOYJ3_ZppM
*Listen to what that Pakistani Muslim is saying about their so-called Ummah. Hilarious!!! :lol:


We have to be very careful we dont collapse Pakistan. They will just swarm into India. We just need it on a proper boil. The thought of these morons in India should frighten any of us. Started watching the third video and there is one phrase which keeps going through my head "WTF". :eek: And BBC seems to be full of expat Pakis, making such shows to showcase Baki stuff.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13866
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Mar 2019 07:29

Given that an Indian govt that finishes Pakistan will most probably be "nationalist", the solution to this problem is evident: they will not permit dilution of their vote-bank. Hindus from the FTSP may be welcomed and settled in India - and demographics of J&K overall will be gradually altered.
Sindh will become prosperous: Sindhis left to themselves will become rich through trade. Migration if any may be from east to west there.

In fact it is possible that UP-origin Indians may decide to migrate West across the IB into Sindh.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 18888
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Karan M » 11 Mar 2019 07:31

If 50,00,000 Bakis stampede across the IB what will you do? A full blown collapse must be averted while putting them on n even bigger boil(er).

pralay
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 515
Joined: 24 May 2009 23:07
Contact:

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby pralay » 11 Mar 2019 08:28

Bishwa wrote:Indian civilian eye witness say a jet came down opposite of Indian villages of Sher Makadi and Bohani Panchayat in Naushera sector. And they saw parachutes deploy.
Can someone identify these locations on a map?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci2iwpeSC_Q
Added later : Bohani is visible here https://satellites.pro/Pakistan_map#33. ... .110268,12
It is in the bulge near Jhangar
Khambah which is mentioned in the video as the place opposite which a jet fell is also visible.. sher makadi must be close to it

Khambah: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Qumbi+Khambha/@33.1901065,74.0292035,2278m

sudeepj wrote:hawa mein ghum rahi thi teen chatri (three parachutes in the sky)
aek chali gayi gXXXX ki taraf (one went up towards gojra / gulpur / Mora? ..)
aek humaray horran ke gaon me giri hai (and one fell in our village of horran)

Most probably: Kotli Gujran On exactly right side oh Khambah : https://www.google.com/maps/place/Qumbi+Khambha/@33.1874048,74.0534234,1065m

Khambah is ~9km South-East to Horran Village where Abhinandan was captured.
And Sher Makadi May be names of post/s on LoC or some local feature
Last edited by pralay on 11 Mar 2019 08:53, edited 4 times in total.

Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Singha » 11 Mar 2019 08:35

Sindhis have a long history of trading, being from a arid land they were forced to look for avenues beyond agri.
joke is sindhis can buy from a marwari, and sell to a gujju and still turn a profit :)

krishna_krishna
BRFite
Posts: 815
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 04:14

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby krishna_krishna » 11 Mar 2019 08:45

Here is another video of IAG Mig-21 bis this gives us a new look on total wreckage of one single plane :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQEiD0PrsKg

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Austin » 11 Mar 2019 08:59

krishna_krishna wrote:Here is another video of IAG Mig-21 bis this gives us a new look on total wreckage of one single plane :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQEiD0PrsKg


Good Find Krishna.

As its HD video , The Bison has fallen on ground pretty much intact no scattered debris of Bison around.

Lot of local Abduls around first to go on the sight , I am so Glad Abhi Made it Alive and back to India , Thank God.

chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4076
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby chola » 11 Mar 2019 09:03

Karan M wrote:If 50,00,000 Bakis stampede across the IB what will you do? A full blown collapse must be averted while putting them on n even bigger boil(er).


Let me guess -- the same thing we did with the 20 million wayward bongs from Bangladesh and the 20K Rohingyas. We'll look the other way.

No full blown collapse, please. In that case, we'd be lucky if there were only 5 lakhs refugees. I think it would be in the millions if the failed state were to fail completely.

The best way to keep Pakiland in a boil is to push whole villages of stone throwers into POK or even Paki proper. Kill two stone throwers with one bird or however the old saying goes.

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23385
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Austin » 11 Mar 2019 09:23

chola wrote:
Austin wrote:An old interview with Abhinandan when he used to fly the Su-30 at age 26 !

To be perfectly honest, this video was first posted by Pakis shortly after the 27th as proof their JF-17 shot down a MKI. I blasted the Puke posting it as attempting to use another IAF pilot named Abhinandan. I did all I could to discredit the view that it was the same person.


Hehehehe , You should instead argue with Zaid Hamid the other Pakis are lesser soul

sajaym
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 93
Joined: 04 Feb 2019 09:11

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby sajaym » 11 Mar 2019 10:48

Bishwa wrote:I swear I saw a video immediately after the Feb 27 dogfight, that seemed to be shot by a cell phone video...I don't remember which channel it was on.


Similarly on the 27th I saw another cellphone video where they showed two jets in the sky heading at each other. The channel had put circles & tags on the two jets to show which is supposedly Indian and which is Paki. The Paki jet seems to release some smoke (could be either cannon fire, missile release or contrails from high g turn) and then makes a hard U turn while the Indian jet continues straight. Anybody have links to that video?

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11570
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Mar 2019 10:57

It was there from republkicworld, but somehow not able to find it online

Amber G.
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6859
Joined: 17 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Amber G. » 11 Mar 2019 11:31

Haridas wrote:
Amber G. wrote:I feel sadness. It reminds me of such loss. One of our close friend - brother of one of my physics professor- took part in both 1965 and 1971, got MVC but died later as a test pilot.

MVC Wing Commander Padmanabh Gautam comes to my mind.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmanabha_Gautam

.

Yes, Small world. His brother came to US (Physics Graduate student) a few years before I did. Close to our family and I fondly remember Wing Commander stories..Mainly how IAF in 1971, after a few days into the conflict, had complete air superiority . Interestingly Western Pak had more causalities due to traffic accidents due to balck-outs than IAF missing their targets. It has been a long time but still miss him.

Haridas
BRFite
Posts: 609
Joined: 26 Dec 2017 07:53

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Haridas » 11 Mar 2019 11:52

nam wrote:Here is the first video that came out. He says the place is Udan Kotla, which is north of where mig21 fell. Even kotli is north of the site.

The old man said, he beat the pilot, who fought . The blood on old man's kameed is from the downed pilot, he was a "Sikh" and he fought with them.

Clearly W/C Abhinandan was not the Sikh he is referring to, but the poor F17 pilot whose blood is on his kameez who died from injuries delivered by fellow pure musalman.

More Pakistaniyat to such great porks.

manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2213
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby manjgu » 11 Mar 2019 11:55

possible that the PAF pilot had a beard??

Kashi
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3622
Joined: 06 May 2011 13:53

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Kashi » 11 Mar 2019 11:58

manjgu wrote:possible that the PAF pilot had a beard??


PAF pilots are allowed to keep beards.

JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4482
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby JayS » 11 Mar 2019 12:34

Karan M wrote:
We have to be very careful we dont collapse Pakistan. They will just swarm into India. We just need it on a proper boil. The thought of these morons in India should frighten any of us. Started watching the third video and there is one phrase which keeps going through my head "WTF". :eek: And BBC seems to be full of expat Pakis, making such shows to showcase Baki stuff.


Last time they flocked by millions, we used that to dismember Pakistan. Just saying.. :wink:

I have given it a lot of thought. There are merits to slowly boil the water so the frog dies in it without realizing. The main thing being, we can checkmate any possible Chinese military advances, trying to make next '71 to be a two front war and any interference by any other power when we go for the kill (make no mistake US will not support India out of the box if we go for another geography change, we need to neutralize all such possibilities so we can concentrate on one front). But we need a sustained long term efforts towards the one single goal. Every action, every step working towards the goal. Continuation of Kao plan, in single stage an going beyond the three stages its supposed to have. While we do that, we should keep pushing the threshold down for any Paki sub-conventional warfare attempt to attract punitive actions from IA/IAF. Basically squeeze the strategic space Pakistan has from all sides until they are ripe for cutting into pieces.

Khalsa
BRFite
Posts: 1638
Joined: 12 Nov 2000 12:31
Location: NZL

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Khalsa » 11 Mar 2019 14:03

Kashi wrote:
manjgu wrote:possible that the PAF pilot had a beard??


PAF pilots are allowed to keep beards.



if I am a pakistani ... would I call someone a sikh because they have a beard or am I going to call them a sikh because they are wearing a patka or both.
This old man's interview has perplexed me from day one ... there was another video in which this old man said the second pilot got thrashed and the Sikh ran away.

I think i have a theory, could they be wearing a liner or a patka of some sort beneath their F-16 helmets that this gent mistook for Sikh.
I know our old Mig-21 pilots and Mig-25 pilots used to to ensure sweat and oil remains away from the helmet etc.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11570
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Mar 2019 14:11

Khalsa wrote:
Kashi wrote:
PAF pilots are allowed to keep beards.



if I am a pakistani ... would I call someone a sikh because they have a beard or am I going to call them a sikh because they are wearing a patka or both.
This old man's interview has perplexed me from day one ... there was another video in which this old man said the second pilot got thrashed and the Sikh ran away.

I think i have a theory, could they be wearing a liner or a patka of some sort beneath their F-16 helmets that this gent mistook for Sikh.
I know our old Mig-21 pilots and Mig-25 pilots used to to ensure sweat and oil remains away from the helmet etc.


If I am Abdul Pakistani I would not believe that Fizzle ya planes can be shot down by lowly IAF pilots and hence any pilot is from IAF

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13262
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Lalmohan » 11 Mar 2019 14:51

chola wrote:Let me guess -- the same thing we did with the 20 million wayward bongs from Bangladesh


I hope you are aware that most of them were Hindu Bengalis who were ethnically cleansed from their ancestral homes by the pak army and razakars? the numbers of muslim Bengalis killed or driven out by them was much lower

Khalsa
BRFite
Posts: 1638
Joined: 12 Nov 2000 12:31
Location: NZL

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Khalsa » 11 Mar 2019 15:41

Aditya_V wrote:
Khalsa wrote:

if I am a pakistani ... would I call someone a sikh because they have a beard or am I going to call them a sikh because they are wearing a patka or both.
This old man's interview has perplexed me from day one ... there was another video in which this old man said the second pilot got thrashed and the Sikh ran away.

I think i have a theory, could they be wearing a liner or a patka of some sort beneath their F-16 helmets that this gent mistook for Sikh.
I know our old Mig-21 pilots and Mig-25 pilots used to to ensure sweat and oil remains away from the helmet etc.


If I am Abdul Pakistani I would not believe that Fizzle ya planes can be shot down by lowly IAF pilots and hence any pilot is from IAF


Now you would be surprised how realistic old folks are from the border areas. The brain washed bufoons are either way inside Lahore or crossing the LoC at night time. This guy is either reasonable or reading a script.

However what I believe did happen, they came to know of our attack at Balakot and thought IAF crossed again and was shot down. hence they were expecting IAF pilots. At times of stress and excitement we can fill up so much lack of information with our imaginitive self.

A lot of the videos mention that they recogonised because they saw the Indian Flag on the parachutes. I want to go facepalm at that time. yes next time we eject out parachutes will be strung with speakers blasting Indian Bollywood music as well.

The man is genuine but what he believes is part truth and part imaginative memory construction.
Its a known pysch phenomenon.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6825
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby habal » 11 Mar 2019 15:46

kindly peruse through this video

https://youtu.be/lpg0ULKQQQs

W/C Shahbaz Haider of No 19 Sherdils Squadron. PAF F-16 pilot.

Image

SidSoma
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 75
Joined: 16 Feb 2018 15:09

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby SidSoma » 11 Mar 2019 16:05

All missile launches were done by F-16 and multiple AMRAAMs were fired. Based on the fact that no SD-10s were fired, it can be assumed that either
1. The JF-17 Radars were not able to lock on the MKIs (largest radar signature in the field)
2. The SD-10 range is lesser than the AIM-120 C5 (Which in itself has a dismal track record in the BVR regime).

This data affirms the fact that Chinese maal is Chinese maal, and the JF-17 is in fact a bandar.

sajaym
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 93
Joined: 04 Feb 2019 09:11

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby sajaym » 11 Mar 2019 16:30

habal wrote:...W/C Shahbaz Haider of No 19 Sherdils Squadron. PAF F-16 pilot.

I think you've just found the missing 'sardar'! This chap does look like a pucca sardar if you visualize a turban on him. I wonder where he is these days.

UlanBatori
BRF Oldie
Posts: 13866
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby UlanBatori » 11 Mar 2019 16:32

Buried no doubt. POKis beat him to death.
You have to remember the FIRST REPORTS: (look waaaay back in the thread that is probably locked and stored somewhere on BRF)
Pakis declared that
3 Indian pilots came down in parachutes. One captured. One in hospital, "critically injured". One missing, yet to be found, considered "trying to get across the border".

They firmly (hallucinated) at the time that the 2-seater a/c that crashed was Indian.

Everything else was "manufactured" after they realized what must have happened.
The "one critically injured" I think they reported later, was dead. Meanwhile the POKis had also beaten the other one to death, only the one reported "captured" had to be later admitted to be Indian.
Otherwise how do they now explain their initial reports? Where are the other 2 "Indian" pilots? Or their bodies? Or wreckage?
Last edited by UlanBatori on 11 Mar 2019 16:58, edited 1 time in total.

Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8152
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Pratyush » 11 Mar 2019 16:42

Poor PAF chaps, their only hope for salvation is to fall in Indian hands. Especially knowing what the awam will do them if they fall in home land.

Dilbu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6333
Joined: 07 Nov 2007 22:53
Location: Deep in the badlands of BRFATA

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Dilbu » 11 Mar 2019 16:48

Instead of IAF it is the PAF who should carry green colour parachutes and sing the national anthem aloud on the way down after ejecting. They will be lucky to land in India and even luckier if the paki awam could recognise the song and spare their life.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6825
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby habal » 11 Mar 2019 16:50

sajaym wrote:
habal wrote:...W/C Shahbaz Haider of No 19 Sherdils Squadron. PAF F-16 pilot.

I think you've just found the missing 'sardar'! This chap does look like a pucca sardar if you visualize a turban on him. I wonder where he is these days.

skip to 20:31 directly to his interview.
His full name
Wing Co Haider Shahbaz Ali
Commanding officer
No19 Squadron, Sargodha
musab air base

another gem in beginning of the program
a bombastic fellow named 'Hassan Mahmood Siddiqui' is also featured.
This is our guy who killed 350 armymen on ground while lobbing bombs across LoC and launching amraams in tandem.
A very busy boy.

nam
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2880
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby nam » 11 Mar 2019 16:51

The clue why he might call someone as "Sikh" seems to be in the video itself. Sikh if he has a beard and mustache, mango abdul if he has a beard and no mustache.

The grandpa in the video,has no mustache and a beard!

Our 19 Sherdil pilot seems have forgotten to shave off his mustache!
Last edited by nam on 11 Mar 2019 16:59, edited 1 time in total.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11570
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Aditya_V » 11 Mar 2019 16:53

Now we why the Hassan made those wild claims, mission failed and 1 F-16 lost, cant admit failure to ex-Paf guy.

habal
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6825
Joined: 24 Dec 2009 18:46

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby habal » 11 Mar 2019 17:08

nam wrote:The clue why he might call someone as "Sikh" seems to be in the video itself. Sikh if he has a beard and mustache, mango abdul if he has a beard and no mustache.

The grandpa in the video,has no mustache and a beard!

Our 19 Sherdil pilot seems have forgotten to shave off his mustache!


Ghazis can keep moustache and long hair. Islam permits that. Rest are encouraged to cut beard which grows more than a fist and chop hair which grows below shoulders and keep moustache trimmed so that the ends do not extend below lips or if wahabbi shave it altogether.

Ghazis/holee warriors can keep both and that is why you see so many taliban sporting long hair and beard.

Rishi
Forum Moderator
Posts: 744
Joined: 29 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: Maximum City

Re: MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16 in Kashmir

Postby Rishi » 11 Mar 2019 17:27

Khalsa wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:
If I am Abdul Pakistani I would not believe that Fizzle ya planes can be shot down by lowly IAF pilots and hence any pilot is from IAF


Now you would be surprised how realistic old folks are from the border areas. The brain washed bufoons are either way inside Lahore or crossing the LoC at night time. This guy is either reasonable or reading a script.

However what I believe did happen, they came to know of our attack at Balakot and thought IAF crossed again and was shot down. hence they were expecting IAF pilots. At times of stress and excitement we can fill up so much lack of information with our imaginitive self.

A lot of the videos mention that they recogonised because they saw the Indian Flag on the parachutes. I want to go facepalm at that time. yes next time we eject out parachutes will be strung with speakers blasting Indian Bollywood music as well.

The man is genuine but what he believes is part truth and part imaginative memory construction.
Its a known pysch phenomenon.


Hey Sammy,

Martin Baker seats have tricolour parachutes (orange, white, dark green). Connect the dots?

Image


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: LakshmanPST, Rakesh and 63 guests