Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

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Indranil
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Indranil » 08 Sep 2019 12:28

Image

This is ths final configuration. Single ventral fin, no dorsal fin. The spin chute will obviously come off. But, I don't see the MLG doors

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Khalsa » 08 Sep 2019 14:00

A Magnificent day for our country !!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Bharadwaj » 08 Sep 2019 15:08

A great week for Indigenous development.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Atmavik » 08 Sep 2019 19:04

Great Day. waiting to see the armed version of this beauty.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Philip » 08 Sep 2019 20:36

Great news.An armerd version for COIN woulx be very useful. Q.Does the HTT- 40 have lightweight ejection seats?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Indranil » 08 Sep 2019 21:52

Philip wrote:Great news.An armerd version for COIN woulx be very useful. Q.Does the HTT- 40 have lightweight ejection seats?

No. It uses the 0-0 Martin Baker ejection seats.

More than the armed version, I am waiting for the recce version. Will be great for coastal surveillance, Rann of Kutch, and our interiors. This is will be significantly cheaper than the Do.228, and dare I say better as well.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Rakesh » 09 Sep 2019 21:12

Please continue all discussions on HTT-40 in this thread ---> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7775

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Philip » 11 Sep 2019 14:15

Def. News /TOI report that HAL is seriously considering building the 70 seat Ru IL-114 which would be a replacement for a popular civil passenger transport , (ATR-72?) cheaper by 25% at just $17/18 M a pop. The bird comes with PW engines, plush interiors too. Certification is expected to be over by 2021.If accurate, it could be a very useful platform for mil. versions just like the ATR , for MRP, mil transports, etc. Is this HAL's competitive answer to the TATA Airbus' C- 295, not wanting to lose out on the light/ med. transport market?

The C- 295 deal according to Janes for 62 birds is approx. $ 3.15 M.That works out to $50M a pop.Unit cost for the C-295 are approx. $28M a pop. However the C-295 has one advantage of having overwing engines as compared with the IL-114, Which from the data available is a whopping $10M cheaper than a C-295 and around $5- 8 M cheaper than an ATR which is roughly in the same range as a C-295..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby abhik » 11 Sep 2019 18:09

^^^
Maybe HAL should offer the Il-112 or An-132 as a competition to C-295.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Vips » 11 Sep 2019 18:15

It is best to avoid Russian planes for civil aviation. They have a horrible record with the latest to bite the dust is the SSJ series. The initial lower cost of Russian planes are deceptive and more needs to be taken into account -Overall serviceability/availability, life time running costs etc.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Raveen » 11 Sep 2019 19:52

Vips wrote:It is best to avoid Russian planes for civil aviation. They have a horrible record with the latest to bite the dust is the SSJ series. The initial lower cost of Russian planes are deceptive and more needs to be taken into account -Overall serviceability/availability, life time running costs etc.



100%

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby agupta » 11 Sep 2019 19:57

It seems like HAL Aircraft will go to ANY lengths to prevent the emergence of ANY alternate systems/aircraft integrator in India... probably to hide its own dismal efficiency and yield issues that drive up cost of "indigenized" systems.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Indranil » 11 Sep 2019 20:07

I don't understand the criticism of HAL here. Are we criticizing HAL for compet in ng and trying to save its share of pie. Which company wouldn't?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby nachiket » 12 Sep 2019 02:32

Vips wrote:It is best to avoid Russian planes for civil aviation. They have a horrible record with the latest to bite the dust is the SSJ series. The initial lower cost of Russian planes are deceptive and more needs to be taken into account -Overall serviceability/availability, life time running costs etc.

Russian civilian aircraft have had few takers outside of Russia (and formerly the SU) for obvious reasons. But do you have statistics proving that Russian civilian jets crashed at a higher rate than their western counterparts and what percentage of those crashes were due to design and/or manufacturing defects? Since you have mentioned the horrible record, I assume you do.

As far as the SSJ is concerned, there have been 2 fatal crashes. The first one was pilot error during a demo flight. The second one was after a lightning strike necessitated an emergency landing which went wrong.

Nothing quite so severe as a manufacturer failing to disclose an automated system for stall avoidance to the pilots and the system then going horribly wrong and crashing the aircraft for example.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Karan M » 12 Sep 2019 02:38

Indranil wrote:I don't understand the criticism of HAL here. Are we criticizing HAL for compet in ng and trying to save its share of pie. Which company wouldn't?


I swear, its getting a bit too funny now. On the one hand everyone gives angry soundbytes about HAL being so chalta hain, doesnt agilely compete for business like a true private firm, and then you have this.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Philip » 12 Sep 2019 03:52

Anyone remember the ongoing crisis with Boeing's 737 Max birds!

On a more serious note, having transports being made in India for both mil/civil roles in both HAL and pvt. sector,
will give a fillip to our aviation industry.Our last HAL transport bird made was the venerable HS-748/AVRO, still flying. Both C-295 and IL-114 could have mil. versions from troop/ cargo transports, AEW,MRP, ELINT, platforms, etc.These will be very useful additions to our logistic capability as logistics provide food for the troops and bullets to fight with.The famous saying, " amateurs talk tactics, professionals logistics".

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby John » 12 Sep 2019 04:00

Philip wrote:Anyone remember the ongoing crisis with Boeing's 737 Max birds!

OT let's move that discussion to Intl Aviation we can discuss there.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Kartik » 12 Sep 2019 04:35

Guys, there are thousands of 737 and A320s with their numerous minor models flying, each type having millions of flight hours, with hundreds of thousands of take-offs and landings per year per type. And you can remember maybe 2 or 3 such events where a crash occurred?

How many SSJ or other Russian civilian jets are in service, what numbers of take-offs per year, what number of flight hours per year and then you compare their safety records. I'm not saying that the Russian civilian jets are unsafe (I am sure that they are certified and go through a similarly rigorous certification process) but please for God's sake don't speak about Boeing or Airbus jets being unsafe. They're safer than nearly any other form of transportation, the 737 MAX issue aside.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Vips » 12 Sep 2019 04:47

nachiket wrote:
Vips wrote:It is best to avoid Russian planes for civil aviation. They have a horrible record with the latest to bite the dust is the SSJ series. The initial lower cost of Russian planes are deceptive and more needs to be taken into account -Overall serviceability/availability, life time running costs etc.

Russian civilian aircraft have had few takers outside of Russia (and formerly the SU) for obvious reasons. But do you have statistics proving that Russian civilian jets crashed at a higher rate than their western counterparts and what percentage of those crashes were due to design and/or manufacturing defects? Since you have mentioned the horrible record, I assume you do.

As far as the SSJ is concerned, there have been 2 fatal crashes. The first one was pilot error during a demo flight. The second one was after a lightning strike necessitated an emergency landing which went wrong.

Nothing quite so severe as a manufacturer failing to disclose an automated system for stall avoidance to the pilots and the system then going horribly wrong and crashing the aircraft for example.


Dont want to go OT. Check the saga of Interjet with SSJ. They have the entire fleet of SSJ grounded and have offered it for sale (which of course nobody is buying). They are ordering Airbus 320 NEOs now.

https://aviationanalyst.co.uk/2018/11/0 ... superjets/

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/interjet- ... -a320neos/

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Austin » 12 Sep 2019 12:06

Interjet business model has changed so they are more interested in long distance narrow body type that regional even then its not certain yet.

SSJ is EASA certified so the safety is as good as any EASA certified aircraft they go through the same compliance procedure

As far as news of IL-114 goes it’s a good move as RTA was not going any where and regional carrier market is growing and HAL can’t let opportunity go of business hoping something will happen , if they get enough regional customers they will build it here else they will maintain it , it’s business for HAL , let other private player compete with other models of ATR or other type

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Vips » 12 Sep 2019 18:09

It is not just the business model that changed. Interjet coundnt wait to junk the maintenance heavy SSJ, no wonder they are not able to sell the grounded fleet.Fact is SSJ is a lemon.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Austin » 12 Sep 2019 18:30

Vips wrote:It is not just the business model that changed. Interjet coundnt wait to junk the maintenance heavy SSJ, no wonder they are not able to sell the grounded fleet.Fact is SSJ is a lemon.


They have made 180 of those till date and got more order at maks , they are also building global support base to take care of support issue which is what they found as bottle neck , Sukhoi is new to civil business so there is learning curve.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 06 March 2019

Postby Rakesh » 12 Sep 2019 19:22

Now we have gone WAY off topic. Please continue this discussion in the Intl Aviation thread.


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