Indian ASAT Test

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 28 Mar 2019 14:43

US Mil SatCom suggests that ASAT tests causing debris fields must involve some payment to USA for the monitoring role that they provide globally for free

https://spacenews.com/u-s-military-was- ... sile-test/

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2019 15:08

yes sir fixed it now.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Mar 2019 16:05

They have the numbers now; and saboot for ghatbhandanis

In Washington, Air Force Lt. Gen. David D. Thompson told a Senate hearing on Wednesday that India’s test did occur, and that the Pentagon was aware beforehand because India had announced flight bans. General Thompson, the vice commander of the Air Force Space Command, said the launch occurred at 1:39 a.m. Eastern Time, and that the explosion was detected at Buckley Air Force Base in Colorado.

He said the test “struck the target vehicle” and created 270 pieces of debris that will likely increase as the debris field expands. He added that, “At this point in time, the International Space Station is not at risk.”

And a read indeed.. few points about right media discussions and Coupta gets in (this was is objective- to be in one of the experts)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/27/worl ... issle.html

VikasM · Post by **VikasM** » 28 Mar 2019 16:10

https://www.republicworld.com/india-new ... 1RrI5Ye1i4

When asked the reason behind choosing a 300 km-altitude range for the target, Reddy said that protecting nearby space assets had to be considered.

“As a responsible nation we wanted to be sure all space assets were safe and all the debris decayed fast,” added DRDO Chairman Reddy.

All debris decayed already? So nothing was pushed into higher orbit? Or just a badly framed sentence?

EDIT: think its just wordplay. they really are talking decay fast in future.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 28 Mar 2019 16:15

decayed fast.. in the sense within a year, I think... and not decades

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 28 Mar 2019 17:01

tandav wrote:US Mil SatCom suggests that ASAT tests causing debris fields must involve some payment to USA for the monitoring role that they provide globally for free

https://spacenews.com/u-s-military-was- ... sile-test/

Not SATCOM assets but the ground based Space Surveillance System. Even the next-gen Space Fence is turned on and emitting though control won't formally been transferred to the USAF till June.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2019 17:07

phew - FINALLY - the stuff of wet dreams - a fully massa certified impact

koi hai abhi sabooth mangne wala ?

Dileep · Post by **Dileep** » 28 Mar 2019 17:26

Let me try the Fyzziks a bit. FWIW and I could be totally wrong.

How the debris of a orbital collision behave?

The fragments spread all around quite randomly, and the law of conservation of momentum applies. So, the velocity of each of the fragment will depend upon a lot of factors, but in general, bigger the piece, slower it moves.

Now, how do the fragments behave with respect to the orbit?

The velocity vector gets added to the orbital velocity vector, and a new orbit will be defined. The new orbit will have its tangent aligned with the new velocity vector at the point of collision.

How this will affect the orbital decay? Any velocity component other than tangential to the orbital ellipsoid will result in FASTER DECAY than the current orbit. This is because any inward vector will (obviously) push the orbit closer to earth. But remember that the orbit is theoretically can go either way, so the outward vector will have its tail downward, so the object will have to go lower when it go around the earth.

The tangential component will result in a bigger orbit. Then, the deciding factor is the location of the point of collision. The new orbit will have the common tangent at the point of collision. So, if the point of collision is at apogee, the apogee remains the same, while the perigee increases (and vice versa). An increase in apogee will not significantly affect the decay time, but increase in perigee will.

Given the Microsat was in a circular orbit, WHATEVER YOU DO, you can't increase the PERIGEE in a collision event. Wherever the piece go, it MUST come back to an altitude equal or less than the current orbit.

So, the maximum time for complete decay will be the time for natural decay of the satellite (assuming the drag is same which is not really), but vast majority will decay well before that, and only a very small portion, which had the luck to be accelerated in precisely the direction of orbit will stay till end.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 28 Mar 2019 17:36

Singha wrote:phew - FINALLY - the stuff of wet dreams - a fully massa certified impact
koi hai abhi sabooth mangne wala ?

But ... but.. but.. I am awaiting the in-depth Analysis suggesting that the Satellite actually blew up because it was a poorly-built India-genious satellite. It would have stayed for another 1,732,000 years if it had been Imported From Sweden. IOW< there is no ASAT mijjile, DRDO never develops anything.

JUST KIDDING!!!

I **DO** have a serious

though. The PM announced that he would be making an Important Announcement. Then there was a delay. WTH kept the highly-paid Baboon from reassuring the public that there was no problem it was simply that

Pradhan Mantri ko Urgent Basis pe pakistan jana pada hai. Ishtay tuned, he will come out of the pakistan any moment now.

Instead, the "hottest tweet" was "Eej Modiji hiding in Bunkar or running to ATM?" This is the classic self-goal propensity of the Indian Baboon. It probably caused a stock market dive and cost a couple of million votes for the govt where there should have been only positive outcomes.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 28 Mar 2019 17:37

https://twitter.com/kakarat2001/status/ ... 2821967872

Comparison between PDV MkI & Mk II (Not to Scale)

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Mar 2019 18:08

Some more burnol

https://twitter.com/ajaishukla/status/1 ... 8501731329 ---> India tests ASAT missile, using technology available for a decade. Congress did not test for five years, nor did BJP for another five years. Now, three weeks before elections, Narendra Modi tests and claims India is "space superpower".

India successfully tests ASAT missile, joins club that includes US, Russia and China
https://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2019/03 ... ssile.html

Technologies that went into Mission Shakti have been available with DRDO for over a decade.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Mar 2019 18:18

Mort Walker wrote:
ramana wrote:
Idiots this #Mission Shakti is by DRDO.
They got their tweets out of order. That one was supposed to be for next week after the PSLV launch.

twitter

Absurd to credit Nehru for #MissionShakti. Might as well credit Hitler, then, for the moon-landing, for it wouldn't have been possible without von Braun & V2 technology that the Americans snatched as war-spoils.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Mar 2019 18:27

Looks similar the 2nd stage kkv but mk2 has fatter booster

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 28 Mar 2019 18:37

Onmanorama Exclusive | DRDO's top secret A-SAT mission codenamed 'Project XSV-1' - Anantha Krishnan M

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Mar 2019 18:52

The Chinese ASAT test was at an altitude of 750 Kms. It showered debris that is STILL in orbit some 12 yrs and counting
India's test was at ~300Km orbit. Most debris is expected to come down in a matter of weeks

I suspect this was the spent PSLV 4th stage, which had telemetery on it.
As compared to the relatively soft skin configuration of a satellite - a hollow core, a rocket 4th stage with its fuel tanks is thicker metal sheets - hopefully lesser fragmentation and lesser debris flying around

Chinese are experimenting with lasers to try and blind earth imaging satellites. They have set up a station very close to the LAC at 32.325825 80.025461
The theory is that a bright laser shined in the direction of a satellite will blind the optics to events happening in the local area.

The other part of this is that India and China are very similarly positioned in terms of technology, if GoI is willing (GoI-willing) our scientists will ensure parity and eventually overtake all

srin · Post by **srin** » 28 Mar 2019 19:04

Approximate orbital lifetimes from https://www.spaceacademy.net.au/watch/d ... rblife.htm

Satellite Altitude Lifetime
200 km 1 day
300 km 1 month
400 km 1 year
500 km 10 years
700 km 100 years
900 km 1000 years

alok_m · Post by **alok_m** » 28 Mar 2019 19:10

In August 2013, Payload C initiated a series of maneuvers to alter its orbit and bring it close to two
other satellites. On August 9, Payload C altered its altitude by a few tens of kilometers, which
meant it passed above Payload B at a distance of a few kilometers before returning largely to its
original orbit. On August 16, Payload C altered its altitude by more than 100 km and its inclination
by 0.3 degrees, which eventually led to a close approach of Shi Jian 7 (SJ-7), a Chinese satellite
launched in 2005 (2005-024A, 28737), to within a few kilometers.12 Anonymous U.S. officials
claimed that the rendezvous was part of a “covert anti-satellite weapons development program,”
and that one of the satellites “grabbed” another, although there’s no way to confirm a physical
docking from the publicly-available tracking data.

https://swfound.org/media/206118/swf_gl ... il2018.pdf

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2019 19:12

the ISS is above our target point and safe enough:

The ISS maintains an orbit with an altitude of between 330 and 435 km (205 and 270 mi) by means of reboost manoeuvres using the engines of the Zvezda module or visiting spacecraft. It circles the Earth in roughly 92 minutes and completes 15.5 orbits per day.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 28 Mar 2019 19:15

Reuters interview with DRDO Chairman

“That’s why we did it at lower altitude, it will vanish in no time,” he told Reuters in an interview. “The debris is moving right now. How much debris, we are trying to work out, but our calculations are it should be dying down within 45 days.”

Reddy identified the military satellite shot down as Microsat R, weighing about 750 kg (1,653 lb) and launched on Jan. 24. by the Indian Space Research Organisation for the purpose of the test.

A week after launch, it was moved into a different orbit in preparation for the test.

“The technology has been completely proven, we hit it with centimeters of accuracy, probably less than 10 cm,” Reddy said.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2019 19:16

murica also had a small classified shuttle type x-plane up there for years before it returned.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/ ... ve/525969/

could have a crane or bolt gun to grab or attack satellites

siqir · Post by **siqir** » 28 Mar 2019 19:48

from the reuters drdo interview it seems the target sat was available for about two months feb to march before the actual test

seems amazing that it was 750 kilos
they must have gathered some extreme amounts of data from this test and a lot of material science
good going

yantra · Post by **yantra** » 28 Mar 2019 20:07

chetak wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:
They got their tweets out of order. That one was supposed to be for next week after the PSLV launch.
twitter

Absurd to credit Nehru for #MissionShakti. Might as well credit Hitler, then, for the moon-landing, for it wouldn't have been possible without von Braun & V2 technology that the Americans snatched as war-spoils.

Now an inimical country will think twice, thrice before positioning their satellite over an area of interest over the sub-continent. It can be kaput in 3 minutes.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2019 20:12

i think more important, is the RISAT1 type escapade will prove very costly to china now.

and we need to drive home the message by disabling one of their high value LEO imint satellites with a "debris causing event" when its flying over our landmass.

tit for tat. 50:50

disha · Post by **disha** » 28 Mar 2019 20:52

vinod wrote:decayed fast.. in the sense within a year, I think... and not decades

Most of it will be within weeks and some within months (if at all any debris is pumped up to higher orbit).

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 28 Mar 2019 20:56

Singha wrote:i think more important, is the RISAT1 type escapade will prove very costly to china now.

and we need to drive home the message by disabling one of their high value LEO imint satellites with a "debris causing event" when its flying over our landmass.

tit for tat. 50:50

Was Microsat R launched only for the purpose of acting as a target for the ASAT test? Or was it launched to monitor the China border, (check on it's adjusted orbit) And did it die mysteriously while over China, just as RiSAT 1 died under mysterious circumstances due to the debris cloud? To adapt Bond villain Auric Goldfinger's logic, " Once is happenstance, twice is enemy action".

To buttress that point, here is the last section from the MEA FAQ:

The capability achieved through the Anti-Satellite missile test provides credible deterrence against threats to our growing space-based assets from long range missiles, and proliferation in the types and numbers of missiles.

And this:

China may deploy anti-satellite laser weapons next year able to destroy U.S. military satellites

February 18, 2019

China's military is expected to deploy a laser weapon capable of destroying or damaging U.S. military satellites in low earth orbit in the next year, the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) disclosed in a report on space threats.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 28 Mar 2019 21:19

If the RISAT was indeed disabled by enemy action, it just reinforces the point that we should stop tom-toming about the military satellites that we launch. All our spy satellites are launched with much publicity.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 28 Mar 2019 21:26

A noobie question.
How will a ASAT missile be used in an actual event.

If ever there is a need to use ASAT on an enemy sat, we will not have the luxury of limiting the debris cloud or the chain reaction that will be triggered once the debris creates further debris on hitting other Sats.

Our experiment was based on a sanitised environment where we knew that other Sats are not threatened.

But in a real situation we will be killing enemy sat along with threatening many others.

So how is ASAT capability put into use?

Don’t quote RISAT as an example since our own space agency didn’t publicly accept it as one.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 28 Mar 2019 21:33

There are many ways to disable satellites.. not least jamming, orbital capture, lasers etc. etc. etc.

This test was about BMD and hit-to-kill. Today, we have a sword and a shield against ICBM class weapons with a reentry speed of 7km/sec, what to say of short range ballistic missiles available to PakMil, with speeds of 2-4kms/sec.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 28 Mar 2019 21:36

AdityaM wrote:A noobie question.
How will a ASAT missile be used in an actual event.

If ever there is a need to use ASAT on an enemy sat, we will not have the luxury of limiting the debris cloud or the chain reaction that will be triggered once the debris creates further debris on hitting other Sats.

Our experiment was based on a sanitised environment where we knew that other Sats are not threatened.

But in a real situation we will be killing enemy sat along with threatening many others.

So how is ASAT capability put into use?

Don’t quote RISAT as an example since our own space agency didn’t publicly accept it as one.

Using ASAT in combat is akin to MAD. China saw the hue and cry caused by the huge debris cloud of their 2007 ASAT test and concentrated on laser technology to disable enemy satellites, something which they appear close to deploying now. There are also reports of Russia working on ECM equipment to be mounted on AWACS kind of aircraft to suppress/jam/disable enemy satellites. Both approaches would target only enemy satellites without causing debris mayhem in orbit.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2019 21:38

RC135S cobra ball that was spotted monitoring the test.
their real base is nebraska, but they skulk around in diego, aleutians and maybe other places to monitor missile tests using RF and IR sensors.

it is NOT the regular RC135 rivet joint which more like signals intelligence gathering / jamming and the similar EP3 aries

rohitv · Post by **rohitv** » 28 Mar 2019 21:41

Per twitter Microsat-R can still be tracked online? How is that possible if it was destroyed? Can anyone explain?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2019 21:50

and who is the genius with a backyard swordfish radar tracking it ?

these satelite orbital trackers re not based on any beeps from the sat and except for national govts none have radar that too global to track anything ..they just extrapolate based on orbital maths onto a map and keep doing it until someone deletes that entry from their database.

srin · Post by **srin** » 28 Mar 2019 21:52

Singha wrote:and who is the genius with a backyard swordfish radar tracking it ?

Raveen · Post by **Raveen** » 28 Mar 2019 21:57

rohitv wrote:Per twitter Microsat-R can still be tracked online? How is that possible if it was destroyed? Can anyone explain?

No one said they targetted Microsat-R, its an educated guess at this time

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 28 Mar 2019 21:59

Singha wrote:
RC135S cobra ball that was spotted monitoring the test.
their real base is nebraska, but they skulk around in diego, aleutians and maybe other places to monitor missile tests using RF and IR sensors.

it is NOT the regular RC135 rivet joint which more like signals intelligence gathering / jamming and the similar EP3 aries

How is it US knew that this launch was not just another "Prithvi" missile but rather a special one which required flying in assets half way around the world? Genuine question...

habal · Post by **habal** » 28 Mar 2019 22:00

I have my reservations about Microsat R being the target satellite. My guess is either the disabled rimsat or lightweight microsat TD were the scapegoats. Very less chanve of a near 1 tonne satellite is going to serve as target practice.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Mar 2019 22:04

arun wrote:
Dumal wrote:
Do we know why India was excluded? Odd when dozens of others were in, not just the big three.
To keep India out using pretext of accommodating Sri Lanka in the name of geographic dispersion of members, is my guess.

arun even during CTBT the Sri Lanka delegate Jayanth Dhanapala was very anti India and introduced virulent clauses.
JD later became a big name in Disarmament crowd.
So some in SL are a hidden mace for anti-Indian gang.

srin · Post by **srin** » 28 Mar 2019 22:06

habal wrote:I have my reservations about Microsat R being the target satellite. My guess is either the disabled rimsat or lightweight microsat TD were the scapegoats. Very less chanve of a near 1 tonne satellite is going to serve as target practice.

See the post above by ldev - viewtopic.php?p=2338134#p2338078

Seems pretty definite, unless the journo did a total DDM and misinterpreted what the DRDO chief said.

I too don't understand why we had to launch a satellite (indeed create a new PSLV variant for it) and then shoot it down in 2 months.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Mar 2019 22:11

Maybe the cobra ball is there for every indian test
It could be based out of diego garcia in missile test season

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Mar 2019 22:16

Zynda,
The NOTAM announced test of an experimental vehicle on March 27/28. This aircraft might have been moved pronto to Diego Garcia. Doesn't take long to fly there.
Srin, They wanted a target that they can move to the right orbit to ensure debris decay.
For all we know MicrosatR didn't have any working payloads.

Now I am convinced the Chinese attacked RiaSAT1 and disabled it. And as usual US kept quiet and chuckled silently.

Now the two year go ahead for Mission Shakti makes sense.
1 Riasat disabled 30 Sep 2016 viewtopic.php?p=2338006#p2338006
2 Dokhlam incident created
3 India counters Dokhlam

NSA to whom DRDO reports on Strategic matters per Dr Reddy helped give go ahead for #MissionShakti

Prime Minister Narendra Modi gave the go-ahead sometime in 2016....

Bet it was after RiaSat disabled, the go ahead was given in October 2016.

And people ask is this as important as POK II on Twitter timeline!!!

You bet.
Thanks to all the folks pulling in the various points of view.

No wonder Doval is targeted by all BIF.

Putting all this in perspective US knew India will test such ASAT one if these days.
RISAT death - Dokhlam after that. DRDO going quiet. MicrosatR launch as target in Jan.
It was matter of time and not if.
Hence when NOTAM was issued bingo they sent their Cobra ball or whatever.

So was #Pulwama go ahead given to PAK after last day of Lok Sabha while NaMo govt is theoretically lame duck tied down by Election Code?