Indian ASAT Test

[Dileep]

It is unlikely be a 'tail chase' mode. Reaching 7km/sec in 3 minutes is doubtful.

I miss Arun S and his rocket calculator.

I was busy last few days, to participate.
Just send me an email boss I will send you ROCKSIM software.

eKhat sent.

[Dileep]

IIRC, the PM or the official channels never made any connection to ISRO. Only the congi twit mentioned ISRO.

[Singha]

exactly.

and now is the not the time to descend into dharma and declare a "self imposed moratorium on ASAT testing, while rest of world can test as they please" typical indian self-goal mode.

just stay quiet and see what happens.

Russia has called for India to join the cozy club of 3 in talks about peacefool uses of space

https://www.aninews.in/news/world/other ... 329112754/

ever door guarded by the P3 and P5 needs to blasted and kicked open like this
every instance of keeping us outside the country club must have consequences for all those who keep us out and especially for china
the war has just began

[shashankk]

After A-SAT testing, PM Modi asks NSA Ajit Doval to prepare draft space doctrine

After the successful technology demonstration of anti-satellite missile by India, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has tasked National Security Advisor Ajit Doval with preparing a draft space doctrine which sets protocols for operationalisation of the newly acquired capability. He heads the Ballistic Missile Defence program with DRDO and ISRO chiefs as members.

After talking to senior DRDO and ministry of external affairs officials dealing with missile program, Hindustan Times has learnt that India will have to create an authority on the lines of Nuclear Command Authority so that the threat that leads to activation of India’s A-SAT programme is defined with the counter response.

“We have to lay down the defensive/offensive steps required in case Indian satellites are destroyed or degraded or there is access denial by an adversary through electro-magnetic radiation,” said a senior official involved with the space programme who spoke on condition of anonymity.

More at : https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... TeHBO.html

[Singha]

excellent. spoken like a ruthless player at big table. not MMS ji and his pack of extraordinary gentlemen.

nobody respects science experiments and proof of concept demos.

productization and deployment at web scale is what counts.

same for 155mm , same for ASAT

[JayS]

No need to hyperventilate over junk articles and opinions. Those who want to launch Sats are not mango people that they will fall for such propaganda. Every lunching organization take up Civil and Mil launches. If they want to boycott they will, whether ISRO is involved in any such mission publically or not, under some pretext or the other. Some time back it was Govt funding. Now its this, tomorrow it will be something else. Keep ignoring burnol articles from jealous people and concentrate on building our capabilities. Until few years we were 6th or 7th Country doing anything, now we have became 3rd or 4th. Eventually we will be the one setting trends in many fields. The same people will make beeline in our door steps then.

[JayS]

After A-SAT testing, PM Modi asks NSA Ajit Doval to prepare draft space doctrine

After the successful technology demonstration of anti-satellite missile by India, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has tasked National Security Advisor Ajit Doval with preparing a draft space doctrine which sets protocols for operationalisation of the newly acquired capability. He heads the Ballistic Missile Defence program with DRDO and ISRO chiefs as members.

After talking to senior DRDO and ministry of external affairs officials dealing with missile program, Hindustan Times has learnt that India will have to create an authority on the lines of Nuclear Command Authority so that the threat that leads to activation of India’s A-SAT programme is defined with the counter response.

“We have to lay down the defensive/offensive steps required in case Indian satellites are destroyed or degraded or there is access denial by an adversary through electro-magnetic radiation,” said a senior official involved with the space programme who spoke on condition of anonymity.

More at : https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-ne ... TeHBO.html

I hope we don't go with NFU junk for this one. Keep it bit ambiguous. Actually, no need to commit to anything.

[Singha]

good part is "access denial by an adversary through electro-magnetic radiation,” - this captures the directed energy laser weapons being worked on.

we need to develop some onboard means on a satellite to detect when it is being lased , get where its being lased from and send out an alert back to base. some proximity sensor (low power radar?) to detect the creeping approach of graboids or vulture droids too.

[nam]

Next one: Hypersonic, and then call for Hypersonic NPT.

For this one we need to make sure the Chinis are in the group. One way to prevent open transfer of hypersonic tech to Paks.

[JayS]

good part is "access denial by an adversary through electro-magnetic radiation,” - this captures the directed energy laser weapons being worked on.

we need to develop some onboard means on a satellite to detect when it is being lased , get where its being lased from and send out an alert back to base. some proximity sensor (low power radar?) to detect the creeping approach of graboids or vulture droids too.

Would also cover Jamming.

[JayS]

Next one: Hypersonic, and then call for Hypersonic NPT.

For this one we need to make sure the Chinis are in the group. One way to prevent open transfer of hypersonic tech to Paks.

We need two pronged approach for hypersonic tech - one is from top side that is very high M number Avangard like hypersonic gliders and from bottom side for relatively lower M numbers with powered scramjet missiles. I believe hypersonic glider is within the grasp of our technological capabilities as of today. We could do it in few years. Scramjet tech will take time for everyone, so we have a bit of breathing space there and we have been working on it for over a decade now and we have at least three efforts on this front. But we need large scale RnD efforts on this. Current work is too slow. Apart from this we can also create pure rocket based missile with maneuvering non-balastic final stage at M~10 in lower atmosphere as gap filler until we have proper powered hypersonic flight tech. We should be able to build such missile for about 1000km range with relatively less investment.

[Gagan]

What is amusing is these experts who crawl out of the woodwork to try and latch onto someone else's success.
These are the geniuses who can't even afford a toy telescope in their house, and take to social media and become self styled experts
The reason why they use social media is because these creeps are so obscure, that no media organization will publish their articles

So make a shocking and outrageous statement on social media, get some brownie publicity, and build your career.
Poor sods

[Gagan]

1. WRT ground based lasers and directed energy weapons.
Don't they have to contend with the atmosphere diffraction?
Which is why airborne or space based lasers and energy weapons are the future.

2. WRT debris field around RISAT-2.
It could be that a fuel tank exploded. But if we think of hostile action, it could be just about any space power, including massa or roos.
It depends on where the satellite was when the debris field was noted. Most low earth satellites are not in 24x7 communication with ground stations, specially true in the case of India, with limited global ground station coverage. That coverage has expanded in recent years, but needs to further expand.
Also sats perhaps need to have laser warning receivers installed ?

3. Russia was using lasers on their destroyers to blind USAF planes back in the 80s
The chinese have started using ground based lasers to dazzle and blind satellites.
China uses its low and medium earth orbit satellites to spy on us, and share data with pakistani mil - they need to be returned the favour

[ArjunPandit]

Arjun Pandit which other satellite was disabled in rapid succession?

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 299_1.html
GSAT 6A and PSLV.
I am still very surprised at PSLV failure.
I was not aware of Risat 1 failure. Was it discussed on BRF?
This is wiki link:

On 30 September 2016, Joint Space Operations Center identified a debris generating event near RISAT-1.[14][15] The event created 16 pieces out of which 15 decayed and one was catalogued on 6 October 2016 under NORAD ID: 41797 and COSPAR ID: 2012-017C and decayed on 12 October 2016. Cause of this event remains unknown. A month later on 3 November 2016, RISAT-1 data was declared unavailable on ESA's Copernicus Space Component Data Access portal due satellite outage. Satellite was experiencing anomalies but ISRO denied they were related to fragmentation even

Not to rule out that it might be our own failing (which i expect to be part and parcel of such high end projects), but I do not rule out external(Khan/chinese/Russian/Brishit) hand in these matters. They have a strong incentive to keep India down

[ArjunPandit]

It's interesting how a strong leadership & geo-economic environment affect the world response. barring few noises not much of a response. I still remember 1998 when everyone in the world was against us. That's why I am always thankful to russians & french. They were besides us for whatever reasons.

[UlanBatori]

exactly.
Russia has called for India to join the cozy club of 3 in talks about peacefool uses of space
[b]

Simple. ASAT biss == NSG entry.
Otherwise every now and then ASAT goes up to stand there and say HI!! to approaching (at 7.5km/s) satellite.
I think it is time to Spice every Paki missile launch facility - to stop Space Terrorism b4 it is really underway.

[Paul]

French help was more forthcoming than Roossie support. A big thank you to Jacques Chirac

[JTull]

Get the hypersonic vehicle test done soon.

India should refuse to enter into any space or hypersonic vehicle treaties and announce that they'll continue testing "responsibly" as we don't believe in partisan setups like NPT, NSG, UNSC.

Results will come automatically!

[sudhan]

Guys, I took to writing a chaiwalla article last night,...

Hats off to your efforts, Muns Ji!

IMHO, we could add a few lines that explain that satellites in LEO would be travelling lot faster then ICBMs and IRBMs at 600 - 1000 km altitude. In short, this is a monumental achievement for DRDO and India given this was the first attempt. And, we have a credible interceptor for intercepting ICBMs and IRBMs in outer space..

[SSSalvi]

Purely from Technical point of view:

1. From : https://english.manoramaonline.com/news/nation/2019/03/27/mission-shakti-drdo-asat-missile-hit-microsat-r-isro.html
- There were no war heads ,, so (My feeling : No big Shattering to create a large cloud of Debris )
- Microsat-R was the satellite that was hit by the missile. It was placed in about 270 Kms orbit on 24 January 2019 using PSLV-C44. ( My Comment: It means that this activity was neatly planned. Two satellites have been placed in around 300 kms orbit till now. Other one is MICROSAT-TD launched in 2018 .. but its orbit is about 375 Kms.)
- Killer hit almost at the center of the satellite.
2.
Probably the hit just deviated the satellite instead of fragmenting it. It could be tumbling ( rotating like a top ) . { This is a scientific inference .. not for or against any political party }

The international custodian of satellite orbit parameters has released the satellite parameters ( Called TLE in technical parlance ) and using those following orbits are seen:
Pre Hit : 260 x 282 km with an inclination of 96.64° ( about 90 minutes before hit )
Post Hit : 249 x 286 km with an inclination of 96.75° ( about 90 minutes after hit ).

So there was a sure physical disturbance ( = contact ) in the intervening period.
Satellite was travelling from South to North and Killer hit it from North to South .. so reduction in speed due to head-on collision.

We have to wait for sometime to know about fragmentation details.

[Vips]

Mission Shakti: Russia urges India to join multilateral mechanism to stop arms race in outer space.

Russia is behaving more like a China Lackey and wants India to accept the China-Russia draft. Anything that has been initiated/sponsored by china is bound not to be in Indian or American interests.

[John]

Mission Shakti: Russia urges India to join multilateral mechanism to stop arms race in outer space.

Russia is behaving more like a China Lackey and wants India to accept the China-Russia draft. Anything that has been initiated/sponsored by china is bound not to be in Indian or American interests.

They primarily worried Trump will use it excuse to move on his plans for Space force.

[Lalmohan]

doesnt have to fragment does it? just has to be off-planned-orbit, preferably in a decaying one so it re-enters and burns up? at LEO shouldn't take long

[dinesh_kimar]

^ when I was a kid during the Cold War, a Russian request for India to stop an arms race in outer space would have been equated with science fiction.

[prasannasimha]

Purely from Technical point of view:

1. From : https://english.manoramaonline.com/news/nation/2019/03/27/mission-shakti-drdo-asat-missile-hit-microsat-r-isro.html
- There were no war heads ,, so (My feeling : No big Shattering to create a large cloud of Debris )
- Microsat-R was the satellite that was hit by the missile. It was placed in about 270 Kms orbit on 24 January 2019 using PSLV-C44. ( My Comment: It means that this activity was neatly planned. Two satellites have been placed in around 300 kms orbit till now. Other one is MICROSAT-TD launched in 2018 .. but its orbit is about 375 Kms.)
- Killer hit almost at the center of the satellite.
2.
Probably the hit just deviated the satellite instead of fragmenting it. It could be tumbling ( rotating like a top ) . { This is a scientific inference .. not for or against any political party }

The international custodian of satellite orbit parameters has released the satellite parameters ( Called TLE in technical parlance ) and using those following orbits are seen:
Pre Hit : 260 x 282 km with an inclination of 96.64° ( about 90 minutes before hit )
Post Hit : 249 x 286 km with an inclination of 96.75° ( about 90 minutes after hit ).

So there was a sure physical disturbance ( = contact ) in the intervening period.
Satellite was travelling from South to North and Killer hit it from North to South .. so reduction in speed due to head-on collision.

We have to wait for sometime to know about fragmentation details.

270 fragments reported

[SaiK]

Geneva Rattlified!

[SaiK]

doesnt have to fragment does it? just has to be off-planned-orbit, preferably in a decaying one so it re-enters and burns up? at LEO shouldn't take long

Yesterdin, I was twitting for an Indic Elephantic ASAT that slowly approaches the SAT, and gets arm-bolted-clutched. revs up to deorbit! [debris as platter for the launching nation]

[ldev]

Chinese Anti-Satellite [ASAT] Capabilities

Researchers, Zeng Yu-quang, Wang Zhi-hong, and Gao Ming-hui first wrote about the notion of a space-based laser weapon in 2013 in the Chinese Optics journal. All three scientists work for leading laser-weapons technology organization the Institute for Optics, Fine Mechanics and Physics. The article revealed that, "In 2005, we have successfully conducted a satellite-blinding experiment using a 50-100 kilowatt capacity mounted laser gun in Xinjiang province…The target was a low orbit satellite with a tilt distance of 600 kilometers. The diameter of the telescope firing the laser beam is 0.6 meters wide. The accuracy of [acquisition, tracking and pointing is less than 5 [microradians]."

The US NRO also confirmed in 2006 that one of its LEO satellites was "painted" but not damaged when flying over China.

That is the future. I hope that DRDO is working on this as well.

[Haridas]

I was busy last few days, to participate.
Just send me an email boss I will send you ROCKSIM software.

It was mentioned somewhere that the final speed of KV was 3km/s. To achieve orbital speed, putting KV in tail chase mode in orbit, one would need larger missile than the largest ICBM ever built.

What would be the weight of the KV BTW..? Any guess..? Should be less than a Ton, me thinks. Around 700kg perhaps.

The ASAT is slower hence does not chase target sat. It lofts up on the path of targeted satellite, using on board optical & RF sensors it refines the exact satllite path versus time and repostions itself (using thrust diverters) to converge it's slow speed orbit with satellites higher speed orbit at specific space-time to ensure collision.

Much like my goalkeeper son blocks a football shot into the box, the golie just ensure the ball hits him.

[Amber G.]

Twitter: @DoRA_IITK (https://twitter.com/DoRA_IITK/status/1111593274123259904

Dr P. N. Dwivedi (BT/AE/2004), has played a critical role in developing the Guidance Control Software for the Anti Satellite Missile tested by India on 27 March 2019. His mentors from the Institute fondly remember his desire, as a graduate student, to serve his country..

[Haridas]

Purely from Technical point of view:

1. From : https://english.manoramaonline.com/news/nation/2019/03/27/mission-shakti-drdo-asat-missile-hit-microsat-r-isro.html
- There were no war heads ,, so (My feeling : No big Shattering to create a large cloud of Debris )
- Microsat-R was the satellite that was hit by the missile. It was placed in about 270 Kms orbit on 24 January 2019 using PSLV-C44. ( My Comment: It means that this activity was neatly planned. Two satellites have been placed in around 300 kms orbit till now. Other one is MICROSAT-TD launched in 2018 .. but its orbit is about 375 Kms.)
- Killer hit almost at the center of the satellite.
2.
Probably the hit just deviated the satellite instead of fragmenting it. It could be tumbling ( rotating like a top ) . { This is a scientific inference .. not for or against any political party }

The international custodian of satellite orbit parameters has released the satellite parameters ( Called TLE in technical parlance ) and using those following orbits are seen:
Pre Hit : 260 x 282 km with an inclination of 96.64° ( about 90 minutes before hit )
Post Hit : 249 x 286 km with an inclination of 96.75° ( about 90 minutes after hit ).

So there was a sure physical disturbance ( = contact ) in the intervening period.
Satellite was travelling from South to North and Killer hit it from North to South .. so reduction in speed due to head-on collision.

We have to wait for sometime to know about fragmentation details.

The orbital data clearly indicates the new orbit is of lower orbital energy than before. Meaning it was not tail chase interception.

[sudhan]

Sandeep Unnithan has an exclusive pic of the TEL for the ASAT missile made by Tata SED



The dummy looks like it has A5's 1st and 2nd stages..

[dinesh_kimar]

^ wow very nice pic.

I believe it is an A4 stage, not A5.

The size is relative cause earlier A4 pics we are used to are from some distance off, and it looks pencil like.

For eg, the booster stage of A4 is 1 m dia., half the size of the people in the picture, I think.

[chetak]

[Indranil]

Sandeep Unnithan has an exclusive pic of the TEL for the ASAT missile made by Tata SED



The dummy looks like it has A5's 1st and 2nd stages..

A5 First and second stage combined weigh close to 50 tons

[sudhan]

Sandeep Unnithan has an exclusive pic of the TEL for the ASAT missile made by Tata SED


The dummy looks like it has A5's 1st and 2nd stages..

A5 First and second stage combined weigh close to 50 tons

Hehe, you are right saar.. Not the A5 as we know it currently. I should have been more clearer..

I was suggesting this to be the composite version of the A5's first stage.. I guess that was as per the original plan of A5's upgrade lifecycle?

[disha]

Sandeep Unnithan has an exclusive pic of the TEL for the ASAT missile made by Tata SED

I think the dummy is to test/qualify the TEL. And not much should be read in the size of the dummy other than - "at minimum it can support that"!

The photos just prove that ASAT is operational. Not a science experiment. Or technology demonstrator. Unlike a nation on northeast which does science experiment and does not even release any photos. Or on the northwest, which only knows how to paint missiles. Even the paint is borrowed.

[disha]

Do Indians have Cinderella Complex? Fear of being independent causes unconscious desire to be taken care of by others.

For eg. Mig-21 downs F-16. We go around asking "where is the proof, where is the proof" - the Baki from the west or its master on the east has not acknowledged - so where is the proof?

Well, we can as well say, you want proof? Just send in your F-16 and we will provide you proof.

For the ASAT test, we are trying to prove that MicroSat-R was brought down. We do not have to prove anything! It is so easy for somebody to put a MicroSat-R "tracker" in some database and claim that look

MicroSat-R is still orbiting and your ASAT failed

. We go back and show look - look it is at a different orbit and then pat will come the reply

maybe your test was not HTK - it just grazed the satellite! And hence your ASAT is failure!!

It could be that MicroSat-R is a spy sat which might have come to a lower orbit to get a dekho on the color content of the Mao suits. While India might have brought down a mao sat and the press wallahs might have done a dhoti shiver and wrote it to "micro sat".

I just do not know from where the rumour spread that it was microsat-R ! I do not remember Modi in his address said that particular name.

In the meantime another self-defeating dhoti shiver farticle: [url]https://www.firstpost.com/tech/science/indias-mission-shakti-demonstration-generated-debris-field-of-space-junk-6350331.html[/quote]

Look at the statement (quoting in full for highlight and continuity):

ndia has sought to minimise the threat to orbiting satellites posed by Wednesday's test of an anti-satellite weapon, which experts said was not technically illegal. (Disha: Article introduces a tongue twister with a double negative. IMHO ASAT test was perfectly legal)

"Unfortunately, there is no binding international legal rule (yet) which prohibits the wanton creation of space debris," said Frans von der Dunk, professor of space law at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. (Disha: So? Article introduces this statement as a brevity and seriousness)

At the same time, the test "strictly speaking" was a violation of the obligation under the 1967 Outer Space Treaty to inform other countries of the test "since they might well suffer harmful interference with their own satellite operations," von der Dunk said. (Disha: WanderFunk could be a punk rock band!)

"These kinds of tests increasingly go against the trend and spirit of international law, which is increasingly being seen as moving towards a customary international legal obligation to refrain from such junk-creating activities," he told AFP.

Since 2002, the world's space powers have complied with an informal code of conduct to avoid the creation of space junk and the United Nations has endorsed a resolution along those lines.(Disha: Yeah right, India is a space power ahead of China and a self imposing good boy attitude is not getting India invited anywhere. World needs to grow up, since unless they are spanked they do not seem to mature)

The United States took aim at India's anti-satellite weapons test with acting Pentagon chief Patrick Shanahan saying "We all live in space. Let's not make it a mess." Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in a rare address to the nation, said the satellite was struck at an altitude of around 300 kilometers (185 miles), which is lower than the 410 kilometers (254 miles) used by the International Space Station and most satellites.

The danger from "space junk" is not that it falls to Earth but that it collides with orbiting satellites.

Even the smallest piece of debris travelling at great speeds can put a satellite out of action.

Most of the debris from the Indian test is expected to remain in orbit for several weeks before gravity exerts its pull and it is consumed by Earth's atmosphere.

Experts consulted by AFP said they believe the relatively low altitude of the test conducted by India renders it safe.

"Not too many objects fly at this altitude, because it's so low and there's such high drag," said Tom Johnson, vice-president of engineering at Analytical Graphics, Inc. (Disha: Tom who? Does his opinion even matter?)

The leader in tracking objects in space is the US military through its 18th Space Control Squadron. (Disha: This leader missed a major asteroid impact by several hundered miles ...)

It maintains an online data base of more than 23,000 orbiting objects including active satellites, defunct satellites, pieces of rockets and debris from previous tests of anti-satellite weapons.

These objects include more than 3,000 pieces of space debris created in a Chinese anti-satellite test in 2007 and more than 1,000 from an accidental collision in 2009 between a Russian satellite and an Iridium satellite.

US Air Force Lieutenant General David Thompson, vice commander of Air Force Space Command, told a Senate hearing on Wednesday that the United States was tracking about 270 different objects in the debris field several hours after the Indian test.

Thompson said it was "likely that number is going to grow as the debris field spreads out and we collect more sensor information." "We'll provide direct notification to satellite operators if those satellites are under threat," he said.

Thompson said US surveillance systems had immediately detected the launch of the Indian missile and "we were aware that it was coming because of some flight bans that India had announced." "Let me say clearly it was detected and characterised and reported by Air Force systems," he said. (Disha: In other words, rest assured that we are doing our jobs and by the way can the senators now approve the budget for a pop-corn machine and a beer bar at the base since HBO GOT is coming?)

Experts believe the target of the Indian missile was a Microsat-R satellite, weighing 740 kilograms (1,631 pounds) which India launched on January 24. (Disha: Which experts? Was this taken from BRF pages?)

The US company Planet, which provides high-resolution photography of Earth through satellites orbiting at an altitude of around 500 kilometers (310 miles), strongly denounced the test. (Disha: Looks like ISRO did not give it the discount the company hoped to get from the natives)

"We categorically condemn the anti-satellite missile intercept recently conducted by India's defense department," Planet said in a statement.

"Space should be used for peaceful purposes, and destroying satellites on orbit severely threatens the long term stability of the space environment for all space operators."

[UlanBatori]

US Company Paklanet is the one that provided Balakot hi-res images saying no damage, hain? Pakis to the core.

[ramana]

JayS
Think of significance of the ASAT test and NSA being asked to draft the doctrine.
It won't have NFU etc.

The Chinese appear to have asked Russians to get India onboard.

Lots of wheels spinning.